We already have peace with God

[Deuteronomy]

Have you ever noticed that so many of our churches have a very large list of different human carnal rules and regulations they try to get us to live by? Our churches today have far too many ways they keep trying to get us to redeem ourselves and obtain our own righteousness. It almost drives me insane to hear them say they are not doing the very thing they are doing—teaching for the truth of God’s Word, the commandments of people.

I believe most Christians worship the Lord in vain teaching for doctrine the commandments of men. You see it's not about us and how well we walk and try to be good or how much water we play with. It's about him. The walk is not about us. The end result is being strong in him and in the power of his might. Nobody I have communicated with on here can understand what I'm saying because they can only see themselves. They walk in their own dead nature and play word games with me. The kingdom of God is not in word, but in power.

Hello Peterlag, you began this thread by accusing our churches (in general) and then later the brethren (in general) of believing and/or teaching that which is false. I asked you to provide us with specific evidence of your accusations (official church doctrines/SoF, etc.), but you have steadfastly refused to do so for some reason (even though you said that the list is endless).

Why

You've also complained (more than once if memory serves) that no one understands you on this forum, and I believe that you are correct about that (for the most part anyway). At the same time, you've accused all of us with being the problem, but the common denominator in all of this, is you.

Most of us came here to enjoy being part of a "community" of believers, to discuss different topics with each other, and to hopefully grow in Christ and in the faith together as a result. I hope I'm wrong, but I get the sense that you are here for a very different reason. You talk at us instead of with us a lot of time (at least, that's how it seems anyway).

If I'm wrong (and I certainly hope that I am), then I have a suggestion that should go a long way towards turning your communication problem with us around 1. listen/consider carefully the questions that people ask you, and then 2. go ahead and answer them ~directly~ rather than pretending that they don't exist, trying to disregard them by talking your way around them, and/or by changing the subject.

~Deut
p.s. - you may also want to consider easing back a bit on all of the judgment and condemnation. Perhaps you've already heard, but the job of "accuser of the brethren" was filled a few millennia ago by Satan and, quite frankly, he seems to be doing a bang-up job without your help
.

 

[Blain]

Hello Peterlag, you began this thread by accusing our churches (in general) and then later the brethren (in general) of believing and/or teaching that which is false. I asked you to provide us with specific evidence of your accusations (official church doctrines/SoF, etc.), but you have steadfastly refused to do so for some reason (even though you said that the list is endless).

Why

You've also complained (more than once if memory serves) that no one understands you on this forum, and I believe that you are correct about that (for the most part anyway). At the same time, you've accused all of us with being the problem, but the common denominator in all of this, is you.

Most of us came here to enjoy being part of a "community" of believers, to discuss different topics with each other, and to hopefully grow in Christ and in the faith together as a result. I hope I'm wrong, but I get the sense that you are here for a very different reason. You talk at us instead of with us a lot of time (at least, that's how it seems anyway).

If I'm wrong (and I certainly hope that I am), then I have a suggestion that should go a long way towards turning your communication problem with us around 1. listen/consider carefully the questions that people ask you, and then 2. go ahead and answer them ~directly~ rather than pretending that they don't exist, trying to disregard them by talking your way around them, and/or by changing the subject.

~Deut
p.s. - you may also want to consider easing back a bit on all of the judgment and condemnation. Perhaps you've already heard, but the job of "accuser of the brethren" was filled a few millennia ago by Satan and, quite frankly, he seems to be doing a bang-up job without your help
.

As much as it saddens me your assessment is correct, the propblem is that he has blinded himself to all of this and refuses to listen. I do not know where he learned to think how he does but I suggest we all pray for him because I do think he has the ability to be a good teacher but it is a journey of humility that he mst take first.

The hardest thing to do for many of us is rewiring our thinking looking at our hearts and finally seeing and realizing where our folloy was admiting we were wrong it is never easy but it is also the first step to becoming who we were made to be in Christ

 

[Peterlag]

Hello Peterlag, you began this thread by accusing our churches (in general) and then later the brethren (in general) of believing and/or teaching that which is false. I asked you to provide us with specific evidence of your accusations (official church doctrines/SoF, etc.), but you have steadfastly refused to do so for some reason (even though you said that the list is endless).

Why

You've also complained (more than once if memory serves) that no one understands you on this forum, and I believe that you are correct about that (for the most part anyway). At the same time, you've accused all of us with being the problem, but the common denominator in all of this, is you.

Most of us came here to enjoy being part of a "community" of believers, to discuss different topics with each other, and to hopefully grow in Christ and in the faith together as a result. I hope I'm wrong, but I get the sense that you are here for a very different reason. You talk at us instead of with us a lot of time (at least, that's how it seems anyway).

If I'm wrong (and I certainly hope that I am), then I have a suggestion that should go a long way towards turning your communication problem with us around 1. listen/consider carefully the questions that people ask you, and then 2. go ahead and answer them ~directly~ rather than pretending that they don't exist, trying to disregard them by talking your way around them, and/or by changing the subject.

~Deut
p.s. - you may also want to consider easing back a bit on all of the judgment and condemnation. Perhaps you've already heard, but the job of "accuser of the brethren" was filled a few millennia ago by Satan and, quite frankly, he seems to be doing a bang-up job without your help
.

I post good Bible. You folks come on my page where I posted and tell me I'm wrong. When I stand up for what I wrote is when you tell me I'm not being nice and that I should let you guys teach me. Yeah I did forget more about the bible than most of you will ever know.

 

[Lion222]

I post good Bible. Yeah I did forget more about the bible than most of you will ever know.

I was wondering if English is not your first language.
That might help explain some of difficulties.

But the lack of humility is plain and it blinds people to the truth.
The proud may seek the truth but God opposes them so they never get it.

If you want to be right, you need to become really really really good at being wrong.
If you want to be somebody, you need to become really really really good at being nobody.
Clothe yourself in Humility towards one another out of the fear of God.
You mind and what you think and what you think you know is unimportant and worthless without that.
Without that you communicate that you do not fear God, AKA do not know God.

 

[reneweddaybyday]

I post good Bible.

You bring up Scripture and sometimes you are correct in your understanding and sometimes you are not correct.

You folks come on my page ...

You need to understand that you do not own anything on this site. This is a public forum and all may participate or not participate in a thread. If there is an "owner" of any "page" it would be the gracious host of this site.

... where I posted and tell me I'm wrong. When I stand up for what I wrote is when you tell me I'm not being nice and that I should let you guys teach me.

When you are correct in your interpretation and someone engages in discussion with you, rather than continue in uplifting discussion which builds the body of believers, you rebuff and claim no one understands God's Word as thoroughly as you do. And that is absolutely not true.


When you are not correct in your interpretation and someone brings more perfect understanding of Scripture to your attention, you become defensive.


What is absolutely true is that you are a church of one. And that is your own doing.

Yeah I did forget more about the bible than most of you will ever know.

Perhaps it would be better if you would retain more than you forget ...

 

[Peterlag]

You bring up Scripture and sometimes you are correct in your understanding and sometimes you are not correct.





You need to understand that you do not own anything on this site. This is a public forum and all may participate or not participate in a thread. If there is an "owner" of any "page" it would be the gracious host of this site.





When you are correct in your interpretation and someone engages in discussion with you, rather than continue in uplifting discussion which builds the body of believers, you rebuff and claim no one understands God's Word as thoroughly as you do. And that is absolutely not true.


When you are not correct in your interpretation and someone brings more perfect understanding of Scripture to your attention, you become defensive.


What is absolutely true is that you are a church of one. And that is your own doing.





Perhaps it would be better if you would retain more than you forget ...

I post good Bible and others attack me personally by calling me a false teacher and other negative concepts. When I stand up for what I write is when many tell me I'm being mean to them. When I explain what I'm doing is when you tell me I have no right to defend myself. That I should just let people trash the good Bible I post because I don't own the site.

 

[Peterlag]

I was wondering if English is not your first language.
That might help explain some of difficulties.

But the lack of humility is plain and it blinds people to the truth.
The proud may seek the truth but God opposes them so they never get it.

If you want to be right, you need to become really really really good at being wrong.
If you want to be somebody, you need to become really really really good at being nobody.
Clothe yourself in Humility towards one another out of the fear of God.
You mind and what you think and what you think you know is unimportant and worthless without that.
Without that you communicate that you do not fear God, AKA do not know God.

What I speak about is spiritual and it cannot be understood by the carnal mind. And this is why most cannot understand what I post.

 

[reneweddaybyday]

I post good Bible and others attack me personally by calling me a false teacher and other negative concepts. When I stand up for what I write is when many tell me I'm being mean to them. When I explain what I'm doing is when you tell me I have no right to defend myself. That I should just let people trash the good Bible I post because I don't own the site.

It could be, Peterlag, that you are more interested in defending your misinterpretation of Scripture than you are in coming to more perfect understanding of God's Word.

You and I discussed Rom 12:1-2 in the "Walking By The Spirit" thread. I submitted Post #125 wherein I clarified what were the verbs and what were the nouns in those verses. And in pointing out the verbs, I clarified which verbs were active, imperative, and passive and I explained why we need to understand the nuances and distinctions in the Greek in order to more fully understand what God wants us to know.

This was after you and I had already discussed these verses. Then, after submitting Post #125, crickets from you. And now you want to tell me you "post good Bible" and that you are being attacked when all that is done is discussion of Scripture.

Open your ears ... learn from others ... be more like an Apollos who was an eloquent man and mighty in the Scriptures. However, when Aquila and Priscilla took Apollos aside to reveal to him the Word of God more perfectly, Apollos was meek and humble. It was more important to Apollos that he speak God's Word accurately than to defend himself.

Acts 18:

24 And a certain Jew named Apollos, born at Alexandria, an eloquent man, and mighty in the scriptures, came to Ephesus.

25 This man was instructed in the way of the Lord; and being fervent in the spirit, he spake and taught diligently the things of the Lord, knowing only the baptism of John.

26 And he began to speak boldly in the synagogue: whom when Aquila and Priscilla had heard, they took him unto them, and expounded unto him the way of God more perfectly.

27 And when he was disposed to pass into Achaia, the brethren wrote, exhorting the disciples to receive him: who, when he was come, helped them much which had believed through grace:

28 For he mightily convinced the Jews, and that publickly, shewing by the scriptures that Jesus was Christ.

 

[Joseph1949]

You reminded me when I was a young man leaving my home and some JW's came up and asked me if I wanted peace on earth.
I said do I look like a fool?
No peace without the prince of peace.
They did not know how to respond to that.

Good point. I also respond with, there can be no peace until the god of this world is destroyed. Namely, the adversary.

 

[Peterlag]

It could be, Peterlag, that you are more interested in defending your misinterpretation of Scripture than you are in coming to more perfect understanding of God's Word.

You and I discussed Rom 12:1-2 in the "Walking By The Spirit" thread. I submitted Post #125 wherein I clarified what were the verbs and what were the nouns in those verses. And in pointing out the verbs, I clarified which verbs were active, imperative, and passive and I explained why we need to understand the nuances and distinctions in the Greek in order to more fully understand what God wants us to know.

This was after you and I had already discussed these verses. Then, after submitting Post #125, crickets from you. And now you want to tell me you "post good Bible" and that you are being attacked when all that is done is discussion of Scripture.

Open your ears ... learn from others ... be more like an Apollos who was an eloquent man and mighty in the Scriptures. However, when Aquila and Priscilla took Apollos aside to reveal to him the Word of God more perfectly, Apollos was meek and humble. It was more important to Apollos that he speak God's Word accurately than to defend himself.

Acts 18:

24 And a certain Jew named Apollos, born at Alexandria, an eloquent man, and mighty in the scriptures, came to Ephesus.

25 This man was instructed in the way of the Lord; and being fervent in the spirit, he spake and taught diligently the things of the Lord, knowing only the baptism of John.

26 And he began to speak boldly in the synagogue: whom when Aquila and Priscilla had heard, they took him unto them, and expounded unto him the way of God more perfectly.

27 And when he was disposed to pass into Achaia, the brethren wrote, exhorting the disciples to receive him: who, when he was come, helped them much which had believed through grace:

28 For he mightily convinced the Jews, and that publickly, shewing by the scriptures that Jesus was Christ.

I don't remember crickets from me. I remember telling someone that the grammer you speak about did not change what I had posted. That renewing the mind is not about cleaning up our thoughts but rather putting on a completely differant mind set that is part of the new nature. I lost everyone on that like I do with much of what I say because it cannot fit into the carnal thinking that is taught here. Crickets I don't remember.

 

[Lion222]

What I speak about is spiritual and it cannot be understood by the carnal mind. And this is why most cannot understand what I post.

Have you ceased from your sin?
Because if your spiritual understanding was a great as you claim you would be done with sin.

 

[reneweddaybyday]

That renewing the mind is not about cleaning up our thoughts but rather putting on a completely differant mind set that is part of the new nature.

Where in Rom 12:1-2 are we instructed to put "on a completely differant mind set that is part of the new nature"?

That is your standard response ... however, that concept does not occur in Rom 12:1-2.

Instead what is revealed is that we are to:

present* our bodies a living sacrifice to God - *active verb which means we are responsible for the action. We present ourselves to God.

be not conformed* to this age - *imperative verb which expresses a command to the hearer to perform a certain action. We do not conform ourselves to this age.

be ye transformed* - *passive verb which means the subject is the recipient of the action ... ye is the subject. As we present ourselves to God and as we do not conform ourselves to this age, God works within us and He transforms us.

renewing* of your mind* - *renewing and mind are both nouns. The renewing of the mind is the result of God transforming us.


So when you state that Rom 12:1-2 means the believer is "putting on" anything, you are completely changing what God intends we are to understand. You have the believer renewing the mind when that is not even the action in those verses. How many times have you heard a believer say (or you say) "I need to renew my mind" (or statement to that effect)?

We should be saying "I need to present myself to God" and/or "I need to not conform myself to this age" ... then God will transform us by the renewing of the mind.

I do agree with you that the renewing of the mind is not about cleaning up our thoughts ... although the renewing of the mind will result in our thoughts being cleaned up.

I lost everyone on that like I do with much of what I say because it cannot fit into the carnal thinking that is taught here.

No-one was "lost", Peterlag. You seem to believe that you are the only one who has been entrusted with the understanding of putting on the new man and walking in light of who and what we are in the Lord Jesus Christ.

Crickets I don't remember.

You never acknowledged the truth of what is written in Rom 12:1-2 as explained in Post #125 and, in fact, still reject the truth as you continue to believe renewing of the mind is you "putting on a completely different mind set that is part of the new nature".

When you understand the truth of what is written in Rom 12:1-2 ... what a wondrous, magnificent truth it is!!!

 

[Peterlag]

Where in Rom 12:1-2 are we instructed to put "on a completely differant mind set that is part of the new nature"?

That is your standard response ... however, that concept does not occur in Rom 12:1-2.

Instead what is revealed is that we are to:

present* our bodies a living sacrifice to God - *active verb which means we are responsible for the action. We present ourselves to God.

be not conformed* to this age - *imperative verb which expresses a command to the hearer to perform a certain action. We do not conform ourselves to this age.

be ye transformed* - *passive verb which means the subject is the recipient of the action ... ye is the subject. As we present ourselves to God and as we do not conform ourselves to this age, God works within us and He transforms us.

renewing* of your mind* - *renewing and mind are both nouns. The renewing of the mind is the result of God transforming us.


So when you state that Rom 12:1-2 means the believer is "putting on" anything, you are completely changing what God intends we are to understand. You have the believer renewing the mind when that is not even the action in those verses. How many times have you heard a believer say (or you say) "I need to renew my mind" (or statement to that effect)?

We should be saying "I need to present myself to God" and/or "I need to not conform myself to this age" ... then God will transform us by the renewing of the mind.

I do agree with you that the renewing of the mind is not about cleaning up our thoughts ... although the renewing of the mind will result in our thoughts being cleaned up.





No-one was "lost", Peterlag. You seem to believe that you are the only one who has been entrusted with the understanding of putting on the new man and walking in light of who and what we are in the Lord Jesus Christ.





You never acknowledged the truth of what is written in Rom 12:1-2 as explained in Post #125 and, in fact, still reject the truth as you continue to believe renewing of the mind is you "putting on a completely different mind set that is part of the new nature".

When you understand the truth of what is written in Rom 12:1-2 ... what a wondrous, magnificent truth it is!!!

This is my take on Romans 12:1...

I wonder if what is written in Romans goes without saying because the culture of the time just knew that the renewed mind can only be done in the spirit as we see in Ephesians.

Perhaps it's not...
be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind.

But rather...
be renewed in the spirit of your mind.

Most believers have been taught it's them, their mind, and therefore their flesh that should be involved in renewing their mind. I'm thinking it's the spirit of my mind that comes with a bit of an already renewed mind as I just get out of the way. Perhaps this is why a guy like Paul could say...

"I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me:"

 

[Peterlag]

Have you ceased from your sin?
Because if your spiritual understanding was a great as you claim you would be done with sin.

Um, yeah I have spoken a lot about that. I can't sin because I'm born of God. Do you want the verse on that?

 

[reneweddaybyday]

This is my take on Romans 12:1...

I wonder if what is written in Romans goes without saying because the culture of the time just knew that the renewed mind can only be done in the spirit as we see in Ephesians.

Perhaps it's not...
be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind.

But rather...
be renewed in the spirit of your mind.

Most believers have been taught it's them, their mind, and therefore their flesh that should be involved in renewing their mind. I'm thinking it's the spirit of my mind that comes with a bit of an already renewed mind as I just get out of the way. Perhaps this is why a guy like Paul could say...

"I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me:"

Yes ... and we discussed this issue of you replacing what is written in Romans 12:2 with what is written in Eph 4:23 in the "I believe the spirit of Christ is my new nature" thread.

See the following posts in that thread:

Post #9​

​

Post #25​

​

Post #32​

​

Post #46​

Let Romans 12:2 state its truth.

Let Ephesians 4:23 state its truth.

No need to conflate the truth in Eph 4:23 with the truth in Rom 12:2 and then claim you still have the Word of God.

Leave God's Word alone. Read it as is ... meditate upon it ... let it settle in your heart ... let God bring increase to your understanding.

 

[Peterlag]

Yes ... and we discussed this issue of you replacing what is written in Romans 12:2 with what is written in Eph 4:23 in the "I believe the spirit of Christ is my new nature" thread.

See the following posts in that thread:

Post #9​

​

Post #25​

​

Post #32​

​

Post #46​

Let Romans 12:2 state its truth.

Let Ephesians 4:23 state its truth.

No need to conflate the truth in Eph 4:23 with the truth in Rom 12:2 and then claim you still have the Word of God.

Leave God's Word alone. Read it as is ... meditate upon it ... let it settle in your heart ... let God bring increase to your understanding.

It would be okay if you said you don't see what I see or you disagree or you believe something else. But you have no right telling me I'm wrong or a false teacher or an ignorant man. And that's why I'm leaving this site because the folks here are too rude for me.

 

[reneweddaybyday]

It would be okay if you said you don't see what I see or you disagree or you believe something else. But you have no right telling me I'm wrong or a false teacher or an ignorant man. And that's why I'm leaving this site because the folks here are too rude for me.

Too bad you're not taking to heart what you've been shown ... I guess you feel you'll be better off running and hiding ... I pray God works in your heart to bring full understanding of some of the issues we've discussed in the short time you've been here.

 

[Deuteronomy]

You folks come on my page where I posted and tell me I'm wrong. When I stand up for what I wrote is when you tell me I'm not being nice and that I should let you guys teach me. Yeah I did forget more about the bible than most of you will ever know.

Hello again Peterlag, until my last post to you, the only thing that I've done in reply to your posts was to ask you questions about them, but instead of answering any of them, you've either ignored them, tried to talk your way past them, and/or changed the subject. I asked you these questions to try to understand what you were saying/where you were coming from, not to attack you.

You've also made a number of "factual" statements that did not ring true to me, so I asked you about them. I never said that you were wrong, but I did ask you to show us some evidence to prove that what you were saying was true, but you've never provided us with a thing. Why?

Look, if I told you that Germany, not the United States, made it to the moon first, would you chose to believe it just because I said it, or do you think that you'd want to see some proof (since Germany, as far as you know, 1. doesn't have space program, and 2. has never sent a man to the moon)

Finally, you continue to tell us that we can't understand you because we aren't Christians (because we have "carnal", not spiritual minds). If that's actually true about us, then you are correct .. 1 Corinthians 2:14.

On the other hand, since that's what you think about us, then why aren't you treating us like non-Christians (by praying for us and patiently/lovingly attempting to present the Gospel to us), rather than going on and on about spiritual matters that you know (and have told us plainly) we have no hope of understanding anyway

Quite frankly, what could you possibly hope to accomplish by doing this (if you truly think that we are all unbelievers)

Thanks!

~Deut

 

[Nehemiah6]

And that's why I'm leaving this site because the folks here are too rude for me.

You do have another option. Embrace Gospel truth and Bible truth wholeheartedly, repent of all your false doctrines, and get on the same track as other Bible -believing Christians.

Why is it that when people embrace false teachings, they choose to desperately hang on to them, rather than repent of their folly?

 

[Cor]

Wow!