Walking By The Spirit

[reneweddaybyday]

Do you realize you talk to yourself?

What I realize is there's a whole lot of folks here that play word games by spinning and twisting and always taking my words out of context.

And the remedy for that is to talk to yourself???

And, again, I remind you that discussion in an online forum is a little more difficult than face-to-face conversation. Sometimes we have to restate what we have already stated ... not because people "play word games by spinning and twisting and always taking [ your ] words out of context" ... but because the way the point is laid out in a post submitted can be understood in a manner different than what was meant. It doesn't mean someone is gaming you, it just means that in order for you to get your point across, it might take more than one post for others to understand what you want understood.

And here is very sound instruction which we all need to understand:

2 Timothy 2:24 And the servant of the Lord must not strive; but be gentle unto all men, apt to teach, patient

 

[Peterlag]

And the remedy for that is to talk to yourself???

And, again, I remind you that discussion in an online forum is a little more difficult than face-to-face conversation. Sometimes we have to restate what we have already stated ... not because people "play word games by spinning and twisting and always taking [ your ] words out of context" ... but because the way the point is laid out in a post submitted can be understood in a manner different than what was meant. It doesn't mean someone is gaming you, it just means that in order for you to get your point across, it might take more than one post for others to understand what you want understood.

And here is very sound instruction which we all need to understand:

2 Timothy 2:24 And the servant of the Lord must not strive; but be gentle unto all men, apt to teach, patient

If I'm talking to myself then I wish someone would tell me why I interact with about 20 different people on this site every time I turn on the computer.

 

[Peterlag]

You don't have to write a book to provide enough data, plenty do it on here all the time.
The spirit speaks through us and his words have power ours do not, the scriptures are God breathed but can be easily twisted or cherry picked to say what we want however the spirit filled believer does not need to do this because the spirit speaks for them.

I do not know when you were direct with me and many times you refuse to answer what others ask you to answer, maybe you don't see it but you are evasive when confronted and play word games to try to deflect your folly.
You cannot use reason and logic when it comes to the things of God, at least not human reasoning and logic.
And while I do correct you and point out where you were lacking I don't believe your not sanctified just misguided. Which is why I always talk to you about the connection of a good teacher and student, can you honestly say you have taken up such a heart? or are you just the teacher?

I do not refuse to answer anybody. Folks here cannot understand what I post because I post what is spiritual and it cannot be understood by the carnal mind. You simply cannot understand what is spiritual with the carnal mind.

 

[reneweddaybyday]

If I'm talking to myself then I wish someone would tell me why I interact with about 20 different people on this site every time I turn on the computer.

I pointed out that in a specific post (Post #153), you were talking to yourself. That was not the first time you have done that ... just the first time I mentioned you were talking to yourself.

Do you have a problem discussing Scripture with other believers? Is that why you are so defensive???


2 Timothy 2:24 And the servant of the Lord must not strive; but be gentle unto all men, apt to teach, patient

Do you even consider what is the meaning of 2 Tim 2:24???

 

[reneweddaybyday]

Folks here cannot understand what I post because I post what is spiritual and it cannot be understood by the carnal mind. You simply cannot understand what is spiritual with the carnal mind.

hahahahaha ... "folks here" understand more than you allow ... could it be that your "carnal mind" is rejecting truth of Scripture???

oops ... I forgot I was speaking about the great Peterlag


/sarc off

 

[Peterlag]

I pointed out that in a specific post (Post #153), you were talking to yourself. That was not the first time you have done that ... just the first time I mentioned you were talking to yourself.

Do you have a problem discussing Scripture with other believers? Is that why you are so defensive???


2 Timothy 2:24 And the servant of the Lord must not strive; but be gentle unto all men, apt to teach, patient

Do you even consider what is the meaning of 2 Tim 2:24???

I'm on here interacting with a whole lot of people daily. Kinda hard to be doing that and not talking to others. However, if I don't answer many times it's because I thought the question was foolish. Like this 2 Timothy 2:24. It has nothing to do with the context of anything I posted here.

 

[reneweddaybyday]

However, if I don't answer many times it's because I thought the question was foolish. Like this 2 Timothy 2:24. It has nothing to do with the context of anything I posted here.

2 Timothy 2:24 is not foolish and, while you do not agree it has anything to do with anything you have posted, it has everything to do with your attitude in presenting whatever it is you post.

 

[Peterlag]

2 Timothy 2:24 is not foolish and, while you do not agree it has anything to do with anything you have posted, it has everything to do with your attitude in presenting whatever it is you post.

The New Testament is about the resurrected Christ Jesus and not about Old Testament water baptism. Now how is that stated with an attitude?

 

[reneweddaybyday]

The New Testament is about the resurrected Christ Jesus and not about Old Testament water baptism. Now how is that stated with an attitude?

I have not been involved in the "My take on water baptism..." thread and I don't intend to become involved in that discussion.

However, in this thread in which I have been involved, here are a few examples of your need to learn from 2 Tim 2:24:

Peterlag in Post #6:

"I did not read any further than what you wrote about Jews and Greeks because I'm neither of those two groups."​

Peterlag in Post #19:

"When I came here I thought I could handle the meat of the Word with folks. But they keep dragging me back down to the milk. And that's what is taking so much time."​

There's also the discussion we had concerning Romans 5:13 where you insist that Scripture relating to those who lived in the Patriarchal administration applies directly to the believer in our day and time ... total mishandling of Scripture which you refuse to acknowledge ... see Post #59, Post #61, Post #63 ... at which point you directed the discussion to yourself rather than deal with the truth of Scripture. You are in error in applying Rom 5:13 to yourself (or any other believer) in our day and time. The verse specifically states the time frame --- until the law of Moses.



Those are just 3 examples of your need to pay attention to what is written in 2 Tim 2:24 And the servant of the Lord must not strive; but be gentle unto all men, apt to teach, patient

 

[Peterlag]

I have not been involved in the "My take on water baptism..." thread and I don't intend to become involved in that discussion.

However, in this thread in which I have been involved, here are a few examples of your need to learn from 2 Tim 2:24:

Peterlag in Post #6:

"I did not read any further than what you wrote about Jews and Greeks because I'm neither of those two groups."​

Peterlag in Post #19:

"When I came here I thought I could handle the meat of the Word with folks. But they keep dragging me back down to the milk. And that's what is taking so much time."​

There's also the discussion we had concerning Romans 5:13 where you insist that Scripture relating to those who lived in the Patriarchal administration applies directly to the believer in our day and time ... total mishandling of Scripture which you refuse to acknowledge ... see Post #59, Post #61, Post #63 ... at which point you directed the discussion to yourself rather than deal with the truth of Scripture. You are in error in applying Rom 5:13 to yourself (or any other believer) in our day and time. The verse specifically states the time frame --- until the law of Moses.



Those are just 3 examples of your need to pay attention to what is written in 2 Tim 2:24 And the servant of the Lord must not strive; but be gentle unto all men, apt to teach, patient

So I tell the truth and that bothers you. Can we have those statements from me in the context of the other person who I was responding to? Or are you always going to take my stuff out of context?

 

[reneweddaybyday]

So I tell the truth and that bothers you.

I love Truth. Truth makes us free (John 8:32). Truth does appear, however, to bother you seeing as how you're "leaving this site because the folks here are too rude for [ you ]".

Can we have those statements from me in the context of the other person who I was responding to? Or are you always going to take my stuff out of context?

Provide your own proof that I took any of your "stuff out of context".

 

[Angela53510]

I do not refuse to answer anybody. Folks here cannot understand what I post because I post what is spiritual and it cannot be understood by the carnal mind. You simply cannot understand what is spiritual with the carnal mind.

Again with the arrogance, when you are filled with pride, and have a very poor Understanding of hermeneutics. Pride goes before a fall!

Be careful, as your pride and haughty arrogance are going to lead you into a pit!

I don't know if you understand that making anything "all about me!" Is the sign of a personality disorder, like narcissistic personality disorder. I have yet to read a post from you that somehow doesn't tie back to "me, myself, and I!" Meaning you!

For fun, trying writing all your posts and don't refer to yourself. Instead, use the Bible for your material. And be sure to put down the verse, chapter and book you can easily find it by putting what you know into a google search, and then the word - Bible. Knowing the Bible is something you don't actively do, and it stands out like a sore thumb.

 

[EleventhHour]

Let's take the first one first. Does Romans 12:1 mean to renew the mind by cleaning up our old man dead nature so as to struggle daily to be more like Jesus? Or does to renew the mind mean to put on the new man in Christ?

Agree the flesh is not being perfected..that is not in scripture.

 

[Peterlag]

Again with the arrogance, when you are filled with pride, and have a very poor Understanding of hermeneutics. Pride goes before a fall!

Be careful, as your pride and haughty arrogance are going to lead you into a pit!

I don't know if you understand that making anything "all about me!" Is the sign of a personality disorder, like narcissistic personality disorder. I have yet to read a post from you that somehow doesn't tie back to "me, myself, and I!" Meaning you!

For fun, trying writing all your posts and don't refer to yourself. Instead, use the Bible for your material. And be sure to put down the verse, chapter and book you can easily find it by putting what you know into a google search, and then the word - Bible. Knowing the Bible is something you don't actively do, and it stands out like a sore thumb.

Have you ever read what I post? And yet you see no Scripture? No Bible verses?

 

[Angela53510]

Have you ever read what I post? And yet you see no Scripture? No Bible verses?

Out of context, doesn't count!

 

[Peterlag]

Out of context, doesn't count!

That's impossible for me to quote a verse out of context. That could never happen.

 

[reneweddaybyday]

That's impossible for me to quote a verse out of context. That could never happen.

But you do quote verses (plural) out of context. Not only to you "quote a verse out of context", you also refuse to listen and/or correct your behavior if/when your error is pointed out to you.

A couple of examples in discussions you and I have had:

First example: When you replace the word anakainosis (translated "renewing") in Romans 12:2 with the word ananeoō (translated "renewed") in Ephesians 4:23.

You claim you "don't see a contradiction" when you change God's Word. Well, have you asked God if you have His permission to change His Word? What does God have to say about people who change His Word because they don't understand why He would use the word anakainosis in Rom 12:2 and ananeoō in Eph 4:23? When we change God's Word, do we even have God's Word anymore?


Second example: When you apply Romans 5:13 to yourself when Romans 5:13 relates to people who lived prior to Moses.

You claim "Romans 5 is dead smack in the middle of this our Grace administration" without realizing that Rom 5:13 is speaking of those who lived prior to Moses. Surely you recall our discussion concerning Rom 5:13. If not, go back and read Post #59 and Post #61.


Just two examples that it is possible "for [ you ] to quote a verse out of context" and that it has, in fact, happened more than once.

What appears to be impossible is convincing you that you have taken God's Word out of context.

 

[Peterlag]

But you do quote verses (plural) out of context. Not only to you "quote a verse out of context", you also refuse to listen and/or correct your behavior if/when your error is pointed out to you.

A couple of examples in discussions you and I have had:

First example: When you replace the word anakainosis (translated "renewing") in Romans 12:2 with the word ananeoō (translated "renewed") in Ephesians 4:23.

You claim you "don't see a contradiction" when you change God's Word. Well, have you asked God if you have His permission to change His Word? What does God have to say about people who change His Word because they don't understand why He would use the word anakainosis in Rom 12:2 and ananeoō in Eph 4:23? When we change God's Word, do we even have God's Word anymore?


Second example: When you apply Romans 5:13 to yourself when Romans 5:13 relates to people who lived prior to Moses.

You claim "Romans 5 is dead smack in the middle of this our Grace administration" without realizing that Rom 5:13 is speaking of those who lived prior to Moses. Surely you recall our discussion concerning Rom 5:13. If not, go back and read Post #59 and Post #61.


Just two examples that it is possible "for [ you ] to quote a verse out of context" and that it has, in fact, happened more than once.

What appears to be impossible is convincing you that you have taken God's Word out of context.

You are the smartest man I have ever talked to on here. You even caused me to look at the different words for renew in Romans and Ephesians. Prior to you I did not see they are two different words. Let's look at your second example first. Everything you say about Romans 5:13 is correct and so I'm not disagreeing with you. But what I'm saying is I too like those before the Mosaic Law do not live under the Law either.

Example 2: The two different words do not change what I wrote because Romans could be just changing your mind so as to become what Ephesians has. I wrote it the following way (see below) and was going to change it after you helped me to understand Romans and Ephesians use different Greek words. But my point, the way I wrote it, still says the same thing. That we should be living within the spirit with the mind of the new man. Whereas Romans really could be just saying change your mind to be able to put on the mind of Christ.

I wonder if what is written in Romans goes without saying because the culture of the time just knew that the renewed mind can only be done in the spirit as we see in Ephesians.

Perhaps it's not...
be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind.

But rather...
be renewed in the spirit of your mind.

Most believers have been taught it's them, their mind, and therefore their flesh that should be involved in renewing their mind. I'm thinking it's the spirit of my mind that comes with a bit of an already renewed mind as I just get out of the way. Perhaps this is why a guy like Paul could say...

"I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me:"

 

[reneweddaybyday]

Everything you say about Romans 5:13 is correct and so I'm not disagreeing with you. But what I'm saying is I too like those before the Mosaic Law do not live under the Law either.

Aren't you the one who has told us that (bold/underline mine):

"The second is the Patriarchal administration. It was the time after the fall from the Garden of Eden, but before the Law was given. This second administration ended with the coming of the Law to Moses.​

​

...​

These different administrations are suited to different times because God has spoken everything to its proper time and administration. We will never understand the truth of God’s Word if we read into one administration what God tells us belongs to another administration. If we believe what God said in one administration and carry it into another administration that was on a different principle, we will be taking what is true for one time, and using it to contradict what is also true for another time. When we mix them all together, by jumbling the whole Bible together: Law, Gospel, Grace, Judgment, Glory, Jew, Gentile, and the Church of God, we will be very confused in our understanding of the truth of God’s Word."​

​

[link]​

​

So you want to take a truth that was written to a certain time period, apply it to yourself, and thereby do exactly what you warn is not to be done.

Not only that, but those who lived during the time before Moses received not the promise (Heb 11:39). So if you are going to apply Rom 5:13 to yourself, do you take on the whole of what was available in the time period before Moses, when what is available in our day and time is the fullness of all that the Lord Jesus Christ provides for us NOW? Just something for you to think about ...

Example 2: The two different words do not change what I wrote because Romans could be just changing your mind so as to become what Ephesians has.

We are wholly incapable of "changing [ our ] mind".

In Romans 12, we are instructed to present your bodies a living sacrifice to God (vs 1) and be not conformed to this world (vs 2). That's our part.

Then, we are transformed by the renewing of your mind (vs 2). That's God's part. The word "transformed" is the verb ... the action. And in the Greek this verb is passive which means the subject (the believer) is the recipient of the action. And God transforms us by the renewing of your mind. And the renewing of your mind is a noun.

So, understanding the verbs in Rom 12:1-2, Who is it that changes our mind from "carnal" to "the mind of Christ" (1 Cor 2:16)? Is it us? Or is it God? I'll go with God. He is much more capable of effecting the change than I am.

If I do the changing, it is nothing more than going from one carnal thought to another ... all the while thinking I am going from worse to better. carnal is carnal.

I wrote it the following way (see below) and was going to change it after you helped me to understand Romans and Ephesians use different Greek words. But my point, the way I wrote it, still says the same thing. That we should be living within the spirit with the mind of the new man. Whereas Romans really could be just saying change your mind to be able to put on the mind of Christ.

I wonder if what is written in Romans goes without saying because the culture of the time just knew that the renewed mind can only be done in the spirit as we see in Ephesians.

Perhaps it's not...
be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind.

But rather...
be renewed in the spirit of your mind.

Most believers have been taught it's them, their mind, and therefore their flesh that should be involved in renewing their mind. I'm thinking it's the spirit of my mind that comes with a bit of an already renewed mind as I just get out of the way. Perhaps this is why a guy like Paul could say...

"I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me:"

Yes, you have explained this process more than once.

In Ephesians 4:22 we are instructed to put off concerning the former conversation, the old man. This is something we do.

In verse 23, it says and be renewed in the spirit of your mind. This "renewed" is a verb. However, it is passive ... which means the subject (the believer) is the recipient of the action.

So as we "put off the old man", we are the recipients of the renewed in the spirit of your mind. Again, the renewal of our mind is what is received when we put off the old man.

Then verse 24 ... and that ye put on the new man.


Now, getting back to your point that the noun of Rom 12:2 is the same as the verb in Eph 4:23. Why not just let Rom 12:2 be as God intends and let Eph 4:23 be as God intends? Isn't that a more worthy endeavor than changing God's Word to conform to an idea we think is good? To me, replacing Rom 12:2 with Eph 4:23 is not good workmanship.

2 Timothy 2:15 Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.

 

[Peterlag]

Aren't you the one who has told us that (bold/underline mine):

"The second is the Patriarchal administration. It was the time after the fall from the Garden of Eden, but before the Law was given. This second administration ended with the coming of the Law to Moses.​

​

...​

These different administrations are suited to different times because God has spoken everything to its proper time and administration. We will never understand the truth of God’s Word if we read into one administration what God tells us belongs to another administration. If we believe what God said in one administration and carry it into another administration that was on a different principle, we will be taking what is true for one time, and using it to contradict what is also true for another time. When we mix them all together, by jumbling the whole Bible together: Law, Gospel, Grace, Judgment, Glory, Jew, Gentile, and the Church of God, we will be very confused in our understanding of the truth of God’s Word."​

​

[link]​

​

So you want to take a truth that was written to a certain time period, apply it to yourself, and thereby do exactly what you warn is not to be done.

Not only that, but those who lived during the time before Moses received not the promise (Heb 11:39). So if you are going to apply Rom 5:13 to yourself, do you take on the whole of what was available in the time period before Moses, when what is available in our day and time is the fullness of all that the Lord Jesus Christ provides for us NOW? Just something for you to think about ...





We are wholly incapable of "changing [ our ] mind".

In Romans 12, we are instructed to present your bodies a living sacrifice to God (vs 1) and be not conformed to this world (vs 2). That's our part.

Then, we are transformed by the renewing of your mind (vs 2). That's God's part. The word "transformed" is the verb ... the action. And in the Greek this verb is passive which means the subject (the believer) is the recipient of the action. And God transforms us by the renewing of your mind. And the renewing of your mind is a noun.

So, understanding the verbs in Rom 12:1-2, Who is it that changes our mind from "carnal" to "the mind of Christ" (1 Cor 2:16)? Is it us? Or is it God? I'll go with God. He is much more capable of effecting the change than I am.

If I do the changing, it is nothing more than going from one carnal thought to another ... all the while thinking I am going from worse to better. carnal is carnal.





Yes, you have explained this process more than once.

In Ephesians 4:22 we are instructed to put off concerning the former conversation, the old man. This is something we do.

In verse 23, it says and be renewed in the spirit of your mind. This "renewed" is a verb. However, it is passive ... which means the subject (the believer) is the recipient of the action.

So as we "put off the old man", we are the recipients of the renewed in the spirit of your mind. Again, the renewal of our mind is what is received when we put off the old man.

Then verse 24 ... and that ye put on the new man.


Now, getting back to your point that the noun of Rom 12:2 is the same as the verb in Eph 4:23. Why not just let Rom 12:2 be as God intends and let Eph 4:23 be as God intends? Isn't that a more worthy endeavor than changing God's Word to conform to an idea we think is good? To me, replacing Rom 12:2 with Eph 4:23 is not good workmanship.

2 Timothy 2:15 Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.

There are many and I mean many who ask me 5 or 7 questions in one post and I cannot handle answering all of them for each person. I just don't have that much time. Now since you are the smartest man I ever talked to here is why I would like to stay with just one question at a time so we can get in dept with it. So I will split this post with each question on its own post. Romans 5:13 says "...sin is not imputed when there is no law."

1.) There was no Law with the second which was the Patriarchal administration. It was the time after the fall from the Garden of Eden, but before the Law was given. This second administration ended with the coming of the Law to Moses.

2.) There is no Law with the fifth that started on the day of Pentecost as recorded in the second chapter of the book of Acts. This is the present administration of Grace that is for the Church of God. It's the time period you and I now belong to because it's the Grace administration, without any distinction made between the Jew and the Gentile, which will end with the appearing of Jesus Christ.