Does Romans 6:11-13 mean the law is not abolished?

[Blik]

Romans 6: 11 Likewise reckon ye also yourselves to be dead indeed unto sin, but alive unto God through Jesus Christ our Lord. 12 Let not sin therefore reign in your mortal body, that ye should obey it in the lusts thereof. 13 Neither yield ye your members as instruments of unrighteousness unto sin: but yield yourselves unto God, as those that are alive from the dead, and your members as instruments of righteousness unto God.

This says the law is not abolished, yet other scriptures tells us it is abolished. Scripture is truth, yet it appears to contradict itself and we know it is not scripture against scripture but we lack understanding if we see a contradiction.

I think that misunderstanding can be cleared up with Ephesians 2:14. For he himself is our peace, who has made the two groups one (gentile and Jew) and has destroyed the barrier, the dividing wall of hostility, 15 by setting aside in his flesh the law with its commands and regulations. His purpose was to create in himself one new humanity out of the two, thus making peace

It was the customs of the Jews that caused such hostility between gentiles and Jews, for Jews wanted gentiles to become Jewish if they accepted God and gentiles wanted God as their God but they did not want the diet and circumcision laws applied to them. These restrictions were called the Law of Moses at the time of Christ. God abolished them. But whatever fulfilled the law of love was not abolished. You cannot love someone and want to harm them in any way, and love is the core of all law that wasn’t abolished.

 

[Dino246]

To the title question: No.

 

[Lion222]

Scripture is truth, yet it appears to contradict itself and we know it is not scripture against scripture but we lack understanding if we see a contradiction.

well said.
I also think you have a piece of it, But a larger piece and more is there.

The tutor is still in full effect, jesus did not come to abolish the law but to fulfill it.
That being the purpose of the law, for and in us.
The law is only fit for evil men.
But those in Christ have the substance of the law.
They are in fact moved from the position of the evil man, accused, condemned and in desperate need of a saviour to the other side of the bench with the judge.
This in part by the function of the law increasing there sin making it totally sinful.
Exposing their true nature and need to repent from themselves toward Christ so as to be saved.
We who are in Christ are in fact now law givers in the authority of that substance of Gods love.
we have become a law unto ourselves in that love.
In that love we like the law, call others to repentance by living our lives as holy and godly in the love of God.
By this we condemn the evil man in the same manner as the law in written word.
Our becoming the living word both condemns them to them selves and calls them to Christ.
That is very much why they hate you, if you are becoming holy and what God is and taking on the life eternal the fullness of God in that the process your life becomes the law of God to them.

Crazy stuff this salvation of our God.

 

[MessageOfTheCross]

Your Word for Today

“what shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin, that Grace may abound? God forbid. How shall we, who are dead to sin, live any longer therein? (Rom. 6:1-2).

Some seventeen times the word “sin” is mentioned in the Sixth Chapter of Romans. Fifteen of those times the original Text, in other words, as it was originally written by the Apostle Paul, contains what is referred to as the “definite article.” That is, in these fifteen times, the Text reads “the sin.” It refers to the sin nature.

Some claim that Believers no longer have a sin nature; however, considering that Paul is writing to Believers here, if that is the case, i.e., if Believers no longer have a sin nature, then the Holy Spirit went to a lot of trouble to explain something that doesn’t exist.

No! Every Believer has a sin nature; however, we are supposed to be dead to the sin nature, even though the sin nature is not dead (Rom. 6:11). In truth, the sin nature is supposed to be dormant in the heart and life of the Believer; at the time of Salvation, the sin nature is, in fact, rendered dormant. But if the Believer does not know how to maintain a victorious life, sin will be the result, which then brings the sin nature to life, and then such a Believer can find the sin nature ruling and reigning in his life, even as it did before he was saved.

That’s why Paul said, “Let not the sin therefore reign (rule) in your mortal body, that you should obey it in the lust thereof” (Rom. 6:12). The sin nature will reside in us until the Resurrection, but it’s not supposed to reign. The manner and way that we can have victory over the sin nature, the only way, in fact, and on a perpetual basis, is that the Cross of Christ ever be the Object of our Faith. That being the case, the Holy Spirit, Who Alone can make us what we ought to be, can effectually work within our hearts and lives, bringing about the Fruit of the Spirit, which develops Christlikeness in our life and living (Rom. 8:1-2,11).

That is the way, and the only way, that the sin nature in the heart and life of the Believer can be subdued and remain subdued.

We find here, graphically so, that “sin” is the problem with the Christian. No matter how many claims are made to the contrary, sin is the problem. And there is only one way that victory over sin can be obtained, and that is through Faith in Christ and what Christ has done for us at the Cross.

Man may devise many ways and claim that victory will be the result, but God has only one way, and that is the Way of the Cross!”

—Donnie Swaggart (taken from the “Word for Every Day)”
Donnie Swaggart

 

[garee]

Romans 6: 11 Likewise reckon ye also yourselves to be dead indeed unto sin, but alive unto God through Jesus Christ our Lord. 12 Let not sin therefore reign in your mortal body, that ye should obey it in the lusts thereof. 13 Neither yield ye your members as instruments of unrighteousness unto sin: but yield yourselves unto God, as those that are alive from the dead, and your members as instruments of righteousness unto God.

This says the law is not abolished, yet other scriptures tells us it is abolished. Scripture is truth, yet it appears to contradict itself and we know it is not scripture against scripture but we lack understanding if we see a contradiction.

I think that misunderstanding can be cleared up with Ephesians 2:14. For he himself is our peace, who has made the two groups one (gentile and Jew) and has destroyed the barrier, the dividing wall of hostility, 15 by setting aside in his flesh the law with its commands and regulations. His purpose was to create in himself one new humanity out of the two, thus making peace

It was the customs of the Jews that caused such hostility between gentiles and Jews, for Jews wanted gentiles to become Jewish if they accepted God and gentiles wanted God as their God but they did not want the diet and circumcision laws applied to them. These restrictions were called the Law of Moses at the time of Christ. God abolished them. But whatever fulfilled the law of love was not abolished. You cannot love someone and want to harm them in any way, and love is the core of all law that wasn’t abolished.

I would offer it actually means it was made perfect or complete. The letter of the law "death". (Thou shall surely die) must be mixed with what the Bible calls the law of faith the unseen eternal law. The Law of mercy.

Again together one perfect law .The Just and justifier. Apart no new life.

Romans 3:26 To declare, I say, at this time his righteousness: that he might be just, and the justifier of him which believeth in Jesus.

 

[Lion222]

Your Word for Today

“what shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin, that Grace may abound? God forbid. How shall we, who are dead to sin, live any longer therein? (Rom. 6:1-2).

Some seventeen times the word “sin” is mentioned in the Sixth Chapter of Romans. Fifteen of those times the original Text, in other words, as it was originally written by the Apostle Paul, contains what is referred to as the “definite article.” That is, in these fifteen times, the Text reads “the sin.” It refers to the sin nature.

Some claim that Believers no longer have a sin nature; however, considering that Paul is writing to Believers here, if that is the case, i.e., if Believers no longer have a sin nature, then the Holy Spirit went to a lot of trouble to explain something that doesn’t exist.

No! Every Believer has a sin nature; however, we are supposed to be dead to the sin nature, even though the sin nature is not dead (Rom. 6:11). In truth, the sin nature is supposed to be dormant in the heart and life of the Believer; at the time of Salvation, the sin nature is, in fact, rendered dormant. But if the Believer does not know how to maintain a victorious life, sin will be the result, which then brings the sin nature to life, and then such a Believer can find the sin nature ruling and reigning in his life, even as it did before he was saved.

That’s why Paul said, “Let not the sin therefore reign (rule) in your mortal body, that you should obey it in the lust thereof” (Rom. 6:12). The sin nature will reside in us until the Resurrection, but it’s not supposed to reign. The manner and way that we can have victory over the sin nature, the only way, in fact, and on a perpetual basis, is that the Cross of Christ ever be the Object of our Faith. That being the case, the Holy Spirit, Who Alone can make us what we ought to be, can effectually work within our hearts and lives, bringing about the Fruit of the Spirit, which develops Christlikeness in our life and living (Rom. 8:1-2,11).

That is the way, and the only way, that the sin nature in the heart and life of the Believer can be subdued and remain subdued.

We find here, graphically so, that “sin” is the problem with the Christian. No matter how many claims are made to the contrary, sin is the problem. And there is only one way that victory over sin can be obtained, and that is through Faith in Christ and what Christ has done for us at the Cross.

Man may devise many ways and claim that victory will be the result, but God has only one way, and that is the Way of the Cross!”

—Donnie Swaggart (taken from the “Word for Every Day)”
Donnie Swaggart

Ezekiel 36:26
I will give you a new heart and put a new spirit within you; I will remove your heart of stone and give you a heart of flesh.

2 Cor 5:16-17
So from now on we regard no one according to the flesh. Although we once regarded Christ in this way, we do so no longer. 17 Therefore if anyone is in Christ, he is a new creation. The old has passed away. Behold, the new has come!

Romans 1:7
To all in Rome who are loved by God and called to be (future tense) saints:

Romans was not written strictly to current believers but to those who would be with a specific focus to the Jews.

Romans 2:17
Now you, if you call yourself a Jew; if you rely on the law and boast in God;

Here we see who He is addressing in Romans.
Those who call themselves jews and rely on the law and boast in God.

You have a new nature in Christ Jesus.

But you still have your grave clothes on like Lazarus
You need to be unbound.
You need to work yourself free from your bondage, rags of your dead life and dead nature.
Renewing the mind and the confession of the sin motives in your heart are part of that process.
From your Spirit outwards, you work out your salvation to be sure you really have it.

But even with you new nature you still have the body and its desires that you need to learn to master and make your slave.
That is about choosing suffering over sin and taking up your cross rather then your satisfaction and comfort so you might actually become one of Jesus disciples ceasing from your sin so that you can begin.
Begin to live the rest of your life for the glory of God!

 

[Blik]

Ezekiel 36:26
I will give you a new heart and put a new spirit within you; I will remove your heart of stone and give you a heart of flesh.

2 Cor 5:16-17
So from now on we regard no one according to the flesh. Although we once regarded Christ in this way, we do so no longer. 17 Therefore if anyone is in Christ, he is a new creation. The old has passed away. Behold, the new has come!

Romans 1:7
To all in Rome who are loved by God and called to be (future tense) saints:

Romans was not written strictly to current believers but to those who would be with a specific focus to the Jews.

Romans 2:17
Now you, if you call yourself a Jew; if you rely on the law and boast in God;

Here we see who He is addressing in Romans.
Those who call themselves jews and rely on the law and boast in God.

You have a new nature in Christ Jesus.

But you still have your grave clothes on like Lazarus
You need to be unbound.
You need to work yourself free from your bondage, rags of your dead life and dead nature.
Renewing the mind and the confession of the sin motives in your heart are part of that process.
From your Spirit outwards, you work out your salvation to be sure you really have it.

But even with you new nature you still have the body and its desires that you need to learn to master and make your slave.
That is about choosing suffering over sin and taking up your cross rather then your satisfaction and comfort so you might actually become one of Jesus disciples ceasing from your sin so that you can begin.
Begin to live the rest of your life for the glory of God!

Except that the Jews who knew God relied on Christ, as the blood of animals symbolized Christ, for the abolishment of sin. It was not their perfect adherence to law that served their atonement, and not the blood of animals. God said he hated being fed the blood of animals. It was giving their sins to the symbol of Christ, or as the Lord put it, to the blood God shed on the altar. After having their sins atoned for, they tried to live a new life, an atoned life.

 

[Lion222]

Except that the Jews who knew God relied on Christ, as the blood of animals symbolized Christ, for the abolishment of sin. It was not their perfect adherence to law that served their atonement, and not the blood of animals. God said he hated being fed the blood of animals. It was giving their sins to the symbol of Christ, or as the Lord put it, to the blood God shed on the altar. After having their sins atoned for, they tried to live a new life, an atoned life.

I dont get how that relates to anything i just said.
Am I missing something?

 

[Blik]

I dont get how that relates to anything i just said.
Am I missing something?

I was responding to your statement
"Those who call themselves jews and rely on the law and boast in God." and pointing out that Jews who knew God didn't rely on the law for atonement.

It seems an important point to me, for It is a principle of the Lord that we don't achieve forgiveness through our own efforts, but through Christ. If God is eternal, and God is eternal, then that principle would have to be in the OT as well as the new. To say Jews could rely on the law for atonement would be the same as saying that God is not eternal.

 

[JaumeJ]

One should always be alert when reading what a true Jew is. There are so many today who call themselves Jews but unhappily, as is warned in Revelation, the many are not rather a synagogue of Satan.

Learn what a true Jew is, and it iwll all come clear. Perhaps a study of what Paul teaches on the subject may clear the view.

 

[Lion222]

It seems an important point to me, for It is a principle of the Lord that we don't achieve forgiveness through our own efforts, but through Christ.

Really?

Why cant it be from the principal of Abraham's works in faith regarding the promise of God (which is Christ Jesus) that resulted in His being righteous as the result of that work of faith and declared as such by God?

Works totally apart from law, since the law of Moses did not exist or Israel or the Jewish people at that time.

To abandon our works in faith do to some misguided understanding of "no effort of our own" because the works of law do not justify is a dreadful mistake.
Because you righteousness, your receiving salvation rested in the works of your faith in God and Christ long before the works of the law even existed.

Just as Abraham was declared righteous after His works of faith in his obedience to Gods command to sacrifice his own son, considering the promise of God still good even if God had to raise his son up from the dead to keep it.
That being the promise of Christ as the seed of Abraham now carried in the promised child before him he was about to sacrifice.

There it is, even back then faith working to receive the promise of salvation.
That is a must. We must have a faith that works like this in order to be saved.
It is the works of our faith in God through Jesus Christ that result in our rightness in Gods eyes.

Our faith/trust our submission to the hand of God in obeying him, that is faith.
We are saved by Grace through that kind of faith.
It is how we lay hold of the salvation He has provided for us through the atoning sacrifice.
Confession of his lordship, not just in lip service but in works(deeds) just like Abraham.
True works of faith, counting God faithful and obeying his commands to us no matter what.
No matter what.

That has always been the only way.
His grace, our faith, Christs lordship, our salvation into Christ's likenesses and life eternal.


God presented Him as the atoning sacrifice through faith in His blood, in order to demonstrate His righteousness, because in His forbearance He had passed over the sins committed beforehand

 

[Blik]

Really?

Why cant it be from the principal of Abraham's works in faith regarding the promise of God (which is Christ Jesus) that resulted in His being righteous as the result of that work of faith and declared as such by God?

Works totally apart from law, since the law of Moses did not exist or Israel or the Jewish people at that time.

To abandon our works in faith do to some misguided understanding of "no effort of our own" because the works of law do not justify is a dreadful mistake.
Because you righteousness, your receiving salvation rested in the works of your faith in God and Christ long before the works of the law even existed.

Just as Abraham was declared righteous after His works of faith in his obedience to Gods command to sacrifice his own son, considering the promise of God still good even if God had to raise his son up from the dead to keep it.
That being the promise of Christ as the seed of Abraham now carried in the promised child before him he was about to sacrifice.

There it is, even back then faith working to receive the promise of salvation.
That is a must. We must have a faith that works like this in order to be saved.
It is the works of our faith in God through Jesus Christ that result in our rightness in Gods eyes.

Our faith/trust our submission to the hand of God in obeying him, that is faith.
We are saved by Grace through that kind of faith.
It is how we lay hold of the salvation He has provided for us through the atoning sacrifice.
Confession of his lordship, not just in lip service but in works(deeds) just like Abraham.
True works of faith, counting God faithful and obeying his commands to us no matter what.
No matter what.

That has always been the only way.
His grace, our faith, Christs lordship, our salvation into Christ's likenesses and life eternal.


God presented Him as the atoning sacrifice through faith in His blood, in order to demonstrate His righteousness, because in His forbearance He had passed over the sins committed beforehand

Lev. 17:11 for the life of the flesh is in the blood, and I have given it to you upon the altar to make atonement for your souls, for it is the blood that makes atonement for the soul.

This scripture tells it all.

 

[Lion222]

Lev. 17:11 for the life of the flesh is in the blood, and I have given it to you upon the altar to make atonement for your souls, for it is the blood that makes atonement for the soul.

This scripture tells it all.

Yeah they knew full well back then what it all meant.
Just did not connect the suffering messiah with the first coming and need for saving before judgement and rule so as not to be destroyed by the conquering messiah when Jesus comes again wearing a rob dipped in the blood of the martyrs.

 

[Blik]

Yeah they knew full well back then what it all meant.
Just did not connect the suffering messiah with the first coming and need for saving before judgement and rule so as not to be destroyed by the conquering messiah when Jesus comes again wearing a rob dipped in the blood of the martyrs.

Of course they didn't know about Christ. But they had their instructions about what the sacrifice meant in regard to their sin. It was a sacrifice for atonement from sin.

Some used the sacrifices as the gentiles used their sacrifices, to feed their Gods. In the first chapter of Isaiah it tells how God considered that.

Scripture is always truth, and just accepting it as truth is what faith is all about. That mystery is solved for us. They took it on faith.

 

[Lion222]

Of course they didn't know about Christ. But they had their instructions about what the sacrifice meant in regard to their sin. It was a sacrifice for atonement from sin.

Some used the sacrifices as the gentiles used their sacrifices, to feed their Gods. In the first chapter of Isaiah it tells how God considered that.

Scripture is always truth, and just accepting it as truth is what faith is all about. That mystery is solved for us. They took it on faith.

we take it on faith too. Because we just like them still only know in part.
One day this salvation that we now only possess in hope will be fully realized if we continue in our faith until the end.

 

[tantalon]

Only the PENALTY for sin, (spiritual death), has been abolished, (for the believer), not the Law itself. Romans 3: 31.

 

[stepbystep]

Nowhere in verses 11, 12 or 13 does Scripture say the Law is not abolished. If a person reads verse 14, this becomes clear.

For sin shall not have dominion over you, for you are not under the law, but under grace. Vs, 14

 

[lenna]

oh here we go again

no those verses do not say that

no no no no no no ad infinitum

yielding yourself to God does not mean the law has authority over you