Signs as tools of wondering?

[garee]

The bible speaks of signs and wonders . It can be defined as a sign with wonders. . . a tool for wondering never coming to faith, a end. .

The sign is never alone .It either produces a true wonder a sign. . as prophecy. Like the sign of Jonas fulfilled in Jesus. .Or a lying wonder not of prophecy as a sign. Like the Pharaohs magicians casting down a serpents in a challenge of authority . . apposing the prophecy spoken to of Abraham 400 years earlier.

Then we have the sign of the times a generality (Mathew 24) .

I think a proper distinction should be made between lying sign and wonders and true. That is if we are to rightly divide and seek the approval of God.

What are some ideas to either support wonders or resist?

 

[garee]

Is there anything in the Bible called a "sign gift"? Or is salvation all about self edifying, wondering, doubting, never coming to the end of faith .

Why did Jesus inform Nicodenmus not to marvel but rather believe when speaking of the greatest miracle "born again " Spiritual gifts not seen yes. Or Thomas. . do not doubt as wondering but rather believe as Christ works in us to make it possible..

 

[reneweddaybyday]

I think a proper distinction should be made between lying sign and wonders and true. That is if we are to rightly divide and seek the approval of God.

What are some ideas to either support wonders or resist?

In Gen 1:14, God tells us Let there be lights in the firmament of the heaven to divide the day from the night; and let them be for signs, and for seasons, and for days, and years


In Gen 9:12-23, God tells us This is the token of the covenant which I make between me and you and every living creature that is with you, for perpetual generations: I do set my bow in the cloud, and it shall be for a token of a covenant between me and the earth.

Clearly God has a purpose for whatever "signs" He determines He will use. Whenever I see a rainbow in the sky, I am reminded of God’s covenant that He will never again bring a flood to destroy all flesh that is upon the earth (Gen 9:17).


In Isaiah 7:14, we have a wonderful sign promised Therefore the Lord himself shall give you a sign; Behold, a virgin shall conceive, and bear a son, and shall call his name Immanuel.


In Jeremiah 10:2, God tells us Thus saith the LORD, Learn not the way of the heathen, and be not dismayed at the signs of heaven; for the heathen are dismayed at them.


Remember in Gen 1:14 where God said that He placed the lights in the firmament for signs?

Check out Matthew 2:1-2 Now when Jesus was born in Bethlehem of Judaea in the days of Herod the king, behold, there came wise men from the east to Jerusalem, Saying, Where is he that is born King of the Jews? for we have seen his star in the east, and are come to worship him.

These magi came to worship the King of the Jews because they watched the “sign” they had been told about long ago, and they were rewarded … they saw the Christ and presented Him with their gifts … and went back to their homes by a different route after God warned them not to return to Herod (Matt 2:11-12).


I do not believe that all signs are "lying wonders". Nor do I believe that people lack faith when they take God at His Word and observe the signs God calls out in His Word.

Having said that, I believe people are now duped and will continue to be duped by satan who continues deceive the nations ... and even that is a sign that we are in the last time.

1 John 2:18 Little children, it is the last time: and as ye have heard that antichrist shall come, even now are there many antichrists; whereby we know that it is the last time.

 

[garee]

In Gen 1:14, God tells us Let there be lights in the firmament of the heaven to divide the day from the night; and let them be for signs, and for seasons, and for days, and years


In Gen 9:12-23, God tells us This is the token of the covenant which I make between me and you and every living creature that is with you, for perpetual generations: I do set my bow in the cloud, and it shall be for a token of a covenant between me and the earth.

Clearly God has a purpose for whatever "signs" He determines He will use. Whenever I see a rainbow in the sky, I am reminded of God’s covenant that He will never again bring a flood to destroy all flesh that is upon the earth (Gen 9:17).


In Isaiah 7:14, we have a wonderful sign promised Therefore the Lord himself shall give you a sign; Behold, a virgin shall conceive, and bear a son, and shall call his name Immanuel.


In Jeremiah 10:2, God tells us Thus saith the LORD, Learn not the way of the heathen, and be not dismayed at the signs of heaven; for the heathen are dismayed at them.


Remember in Gen 1:14 where God said that He placed the lights in the firmament for signs?

Check out Matthew 2:1-2 Now when Jesus was born in Bethlehem of Judaea in the days of Herod the king, behold, there came wise men from the east to Jerusalem, Saying, Where is he that is born King of the Jews? for we have seen his star in the east, and are come to worship him.

These magi came to worship the King of the Jews because they watched the “sign” they had been told about long ago, and they were rewarded … they saw the Christ and presented Him with their gifts … and went back to their homes by a different route after God warned them not to return to Herod (Matt 2:11-12).


I do not believe that all signs are "lying wonders". Nor do I believe that people lack faith when they take God at His Word and observe the signs God calls out in His Word.

Having said that, I believe people are now duped and will continue to be duped by satan who continues deceive the nations ... and even that is a sign that we are in the last time.

1 John 2:18 Little children, it is the last time: and as ye have heard that antichrist shall come, even now are there many antichrists; whereby we know that it is the last time.

Big difference between a sign like a sign of the times. History repeating itself War, rumors of war earthquakes etc. .And a sign that causes wondering.

Matthew 24:6 [Full Chapter]And ye shall hear of wars and rumours of wars: see that ye be not troubled: for all these things must come to pass, but the end is not yet.


It was not my intention to say all signs were (in the past) lying wonders . Today that would be true. The last the sign to wonder after was the sign of Jonas. It was fulfilled wit Jesus . Took away the wondering doubting.

Again not all signs. It would be quite difficult to suggest we are not under the Sun and the moon the two corruption time keepers that he placed in the 2nd heavens on day four.. We can wonder when will he come on the last day .Then the Sun and mon will be under the feet of the bride of Christ the church (Revelation 12.)

And yes there are many antichrists' made known by prophecy .not signs .Signs are designed for those who believe not prophecy .(no wondering) But rather faith giving us the power to believe.

Its natural unconverted mankind that does seek after one. Like what some call a literal mark (666)

Luke 11:29 And when the people were gathered thick together, he began to say, This is an evil generation: they seek a sign; and there shall no sign be given it, but the sign of Jonas the prophet.

There are signs given but none that we are to wonder after as unfulfilled prophecy .Wondering is not believing. . its wondering, doubting .

 

[Dino246]

Big difference between a sign like a sign of the times. History repeating itself War, rumors of war earthquakes etc. .And a sign that causes wondering.

Where in Scripture is there a sign "that causes wondering"?

 

[Nehemiah6]

The bible speaks of signs and wonders .

"Wonders" are simply miracles which are astounding. Raising Lazarus from the dead was a good example. It brought many to faith in Christ.

God also bearing them witness, both with signs and wonders*, and with divers miracles, and gifts of the Holy Ghost, according to his own will? (Heb 2:4)

Strong's Concordance (5059)
*teras: a wonder, marvel
Original Word: τέρας, ατος, τό
Part of Speech: Noun, Neuter
Transliteration: teras
Phonetic Spelling: (ter'-as)
Definition: a wonder, marvel
Usage: a wonder, portent, marvel.

HELPS Word-studies
5059 téras – a miraculous wonder, done to elicit a reaction from onlookers; an extraordinary event with its supernatural effect left on all witnessing it, i.e. a portent from heaven to earth.

 

[garee]

"Wonders" are simply miracles which are astounding. Raising Lazarus from the dead was a good example. It brought many to faith in Christ.

God also bearing them witness, both with signs and wonders*, and with divers miracles, and gifts of the Holy Ghost, according to his own will? (Heb 2:4)

Strong's Concordance (5059)
*teras: a wonder, marvel
Original Word: τέρας, ατος, τό
Part of Speech: Noun, Neuter
Transliteration: teras
Phonetic Spelling: (ter'-as)
Definition: a wonder, marvel
Usage: a wonder, portent, marvel.

HELPS Word-studies
5059 téras – a miraculous wonder, done to elicit a reaction from onlookers; an extraordinary event with its supernatural effect left on all witnessing it, i.e. a portent from heaven to earth.

Yes up until the last sign as a wonder. Today Its no longer a wonder. Christ fulfilled it.

Luke 11:29 And when the people were gathered thick together, he began to say, This is an evil generation: they (666) seek a sign; and there shall no sign be given it, but the sign of Jonas the prophet.

Same kind of faithless mankind that made Jesus into a circus seal. . perform a miracle then we will believe. Until then we will wonder, wonder, wonder and doubt . Like Jesus said to Nicodenmus in regard the the greasiest miracle (born again) marvel or wonder not but rather believe.

John 6:30 They said therefore unto him, What sign shewest thou then, that we may see, and believe thee? what dost thou work?

 

[crossnote]

The bible speaks of signs and wonders . It can be defined as a sign with wonders. . . a tool for wondering never coming to faith, a end. .

The sign is never alone .It either produces a true wonder a sign. . as prophecy. Like the sign of Jonas fulfilled in Jesus. .Or a lying wonder not of prophecy as a sign. Like the Pharaohs magicians casting down a serpents in a challenge of authority . . apposing the prophecy spoken to of Abraham 400 years earlier.

Then we have the sign of the times a generality (Mathew 24) .

I think a proper distinction should be made between lying sign and wonders and true. That is if we are to rightly divide and seek the approval of God.

What are some ideas to either support wonders or resist?

Whoever comes with signs had also better come with this...

Isaiah 8:20 KJVS
[20] To the law and to the testimony: if they speak not according to this word, it is because there is no light in them.

 

[reneweddaybyday]

It was not my intention to say all signs were (in the past) lying wonders . Today that would be true. The last the sign to wonder after was the sign of Jonas. It was fulfilled wit Jesus . Took away the wondering doubting.

In agreement Jonas was a sign of Messiah ... not in agreement that was the last sign.

Again not all signs. It would be quite difficult to suggest we are not under the Sun and the moon the two corruption time keepers that he placed in the 2nd heavens on day four..

Your opinion concerning what you call "the two corruption time keepers" is your opinion.

Here's what God says about sun and moon:

Genesis 1:18 And to rule over the day and over the night, and to divide the light from the darkness: and God saw that it was good.

Signs are designed for those who believe not prophecy .

not true ... the magi who traveled from the east to see the Christ after they saw His star ("sign"), believed and saw the Christ.

Those who were alive when Christ came the first time, did not pay heed to the signs. Only the shepherds in the field saw Christ in swaddling clothes (the "sign"):

Luke 2:11-12 For unto you is born this day in the city of David a Saviour, which is Christ the Lord. And this shall be a sign unto you; Ye shall find the babe wrapped in swaddling clothes, lying in a manger.

I believe the prophecy of Scripture concerning the time we are living in ... and I pay heed to the words of Christ as He told us the sign of His coming ...

1 Thessalonians 5:

1 But of the times and the seasons, brethren, ye have no need that I write unto you.

2 For yourselves know perfectly that the day of the Lord so cometh as a thief in the night.

3 For when they shall say, Peace and safety; then sudden destruction cometh upon them, as travail upon a woman with child; and they shall not escape.

4 But ye, brethren, are not in darkness, that that day should overtake you as a thief.

5 Ye are all the children of light, and the children of the day: we are not of the night, nor of darkness.

6 Therefore let us not sleep, as do others; but let us watch and be sober.

 

[Benadam]

A sign is nothing more than an invisible spiritual reality made visible.
A lying sign is not making an invisible spiritual reality visible.
Wonder and awe help the mind accept the sign as true.

 

[garee]

In agreement Jonas was a sign of Messiah ... not in agreement that was the last sign.

Its the last sign to wonder after. Signs of the times will continue to the last day

Your opinion concerning what you call "the two corruption time keepers" is your opinion.[

Here's what God says about sun and moon:

Genesis 1:18 And to rule over the day and over the night, and to divide the light from the darkness: and God saw that it was good.

The Sun and the moon from where the idea of "under the Sun", it began on day four . The first three days the glory of God was the light. God is light. It would seem day three in the garden God saw pride in the heart of Satan and brought corruption. Corrupting the whole creation .

His very presence like the first three days will illuminate the new heavens and earth . It Sun and Moon corruption time keepers will be under the feet of His bride.(Revelation 12) There will be no more night

not true ... the magi who traveled from the east to see the Christ after they saw His star ("sign"), believed and saw the Christ.

Can't see Christ the anointing Holy Spirt of God. He worked in the Son of man .They saw the Son of man, Jesus .Powerless .

God is not a man. That would fall under the sign of Jonas . . . fulfilled.

Those who were alive when Christ came the first time, did not pay heed to the signs. Only the shepherds in the field saw Christ in swaddling clothes (the "sign"):

Luke 2:11-12 For unto you is born this day in the city of David a Saviour, which is Christ the Lord. And this shall be a sign unto you; Ye shall find the babe wrapped in swaddling clothes, lying in a manger.

I believe the prophecy of Scripture concerning the time we are living in ... and I pay heed to the words of Christ as He told us the sign of His coming ...

1 Thessalonians 5:

1 But of the times and the seasons, brethren, ye have no need that I write unto you.

2 For yourselves know perfectly that the day of the Lord so cometh as a thief in the night.

3 For when they shall say, Peace and safety; then sudden destruction cometh upon them, as travail upon a woman with child; and they shall not escape.

4 But ye, brethren, are not in darkness, that that day should overtake you as a thief.

5 Ye are all the children of light, and the children of the day: we are not of the night, nor of darkness.

6 Therefore let us not sleep, as do others; but let us watch and be sober.

Luke 2 is part of the sign of Jonas the promise of Isaiah 53

Yes he will come as a thief in the night without a sign to wonder after .No need to wonder when one can believe.

 

[Benadam]

When man says "Peace and safety." That is the last sign.

There must be a peace and safety like no other. A peace and safety That isn't threatened by some future division. Universal peace in eternal security. When that is realized on earth the people of the world are fit to judge. Why delay judgement when all the enemies of God have committed the sin against the Holy Spirit? Jesus waits no
more and like a thief takes their eternally secure universal peace away.

 

[garee]

A sign is nothing more than an invisible spiritual reality made visible.
A lying sign is not making an invisible spiritual reality visible.
Wonder and awe help the mind accept the sign as true.

Prophecy helps the mind reveal the thoughts of God. Wonders provide doubt. Wonder not but rather believe God. let the answer from God be yes or no as a living hope

 

[Benadam]

Prophecy helps the mind reveal the thoughts of God. Wonders provide doubt. Wonder not but rather believe God. let the answer from God be yes or no as a living hope

John 3:2
He came to Jesus at night and said to him, “Rabbi, we know that you are a teacher who has come from God, for no one can do these signs that you are doing unless God is with him.”

 

[Dino246]

The bible speaks of signs and wonders . It can be defined as a sign with wonders. . . a tool for wondering never coming to faith, a end.

I have addressed your need for education in basic English grammar many times, and you haven't shown any inclination to learn. Here's why it is so badly needed...

Your opening statement above, "The bible speaks of signs and wonders" is fine, but the words that follow, as you have written them, refer to "the bible".

You have stated that the bible can be defined as signs and wonders, and that the bible is a tool for never coming to faith.

Please, Garee, take a class in basic English.

 

[Dino246]

Is there anything in the Bible called a "sign gift"?

Directly, no. Speaking in tongues and prophesy are both called "gifts" and, separately, "signs". It is therefore reasonable to refer to them generally as "sign gifts".

Or is salvation all about self edifying, wondering, doubting, never coming to the end of faith .

This question is a non sequitur.

Why did Jesus inform Nicodenmus not to marvel but rather believe when speaking of the greatest miracle "born again "

The NASB puts it "Do not be amazed...". It's worthwhile to read other translations rather than make an argument on the basis of a word in a single translation. The sense is "incredulous".

Spiritual gifts not seen yes.

The conversation in John 3 has nothing whatsoever to do with "spiritual gifts" as the term is used in 1 Corinthians 12.

Or Thomas. . do not doubt as wondering

Scripture doesn't even hint that Jesus meant "doubt as wondering". He clearly meant not believing without evidence. You only confuse and deceive yourself when you add words to Scripture.

 

[reneweddaybyday]

Its the last sign to wonder after. Signs of the times will continue to the last day

Jesus spoke of this sign in answer to one of the questions his disciples asked:

Matthew 24:29-30 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken: And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.

I do not believe we have seen the sun darkened, the moon not giving light, nor the Son of man coming in the clouds. This is a "sign" that will occur in the future.

The Sun and the moon from where the idea of "under the Sun", it began on day four . The first three days the glory of God was the light. God is light. It would seem day three in the garden God saw pride in the heart of Satan and brought corruption. Corrupting the whole creation .

If, as you say, "corruption" occurred on day 4, why did God say:

On day 5: Genesis 1:21: ... and God saw that it was good.

On day 6: Genesis 1:31 And God saw every thing that he had made, and, behold, it was very good. And the evening and the morning were the sixth day.


At day 5 and 6, satan had already fallen (and I believe satan had fallen before day 4). However, God indicated that everything was good ... and very good. I believe the corruption occurred when Adam sinned ...

His very presence like the first three days will illuminate the new heavens and earth . It Sun and Moon corruption time keepers will be under the feet of His bride.(Revelation 12) There will be no more night

Revelation 21:23 And the city had no need of the sun, neither of the moon, to shine in it: for the glory of God did lighten it, and the Lamb is the light thereof.

Revelation 22:5 And there shall be no night there; and they need no candle, neither light of the sun; for the Lord God giveth them light: and they shall reign for ever and ever.


In new heaven / new earth, we will have no need for sun, moon, stars.

 

[Dino246]

Prophecy helps the mind reveal the thoughts of God.

The mind cannot reveal the thoughts of God at all. See Amos 4:13 and 1 Corinthians 2:9-11.

Wonders provide doubt.

Wonders don't "provide" doubt; if they did, Jesus would not demonstrate wonders, and the Holy Spirit would not empower Paul or the other apostles to demonstrate them either.

let the answer from God be yes or no as a living hope

You're jumbling together unrelated ideas. Jesus tells His audience, "Let your yes be yes and your no be no" in the context of swearing oaths. Peter writes about the resurrection of the dead being our living hope. Aside from both being in the Bible, the concepts have no connection.

 

[Dino246]

The sign is never alone .It either produces a true wonder a sign. . as prophecy.

A sign produces a wonder a sign? What does that even mean?

That is if we are to rightly divide and seek the approval of God.

Why would you think we are to divide the approval of God at all?

 

[garee]

A sign produces a wonder a sign? What does that even mean?


Why would you think we are to divide the approval of God at all?

The signs produce wondering doubting. Not believing .Faith .

Who said anything about dividing His approval? Yes signs are not the unseen substance they point to it.

Chicago 15 miles a head. Or you have left the Chicago city limit.

I did mention another time we are rightly divide the parables. If not rightly divided it causes people to wonder causing confusion doubt . Parables teach us how to walk by faith and avoid confusion .

Make sure to put on the 2020 prescription below. Then you can see more clearly .

2 Corinthians 4:18 While we look not at the things which are seen, but at the things which are not seen: for the things which are seen are temporal; but the things which are not seen are eternal.