Is the teaching of Jesus before His crucifixion only for Jews?

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Jul 23, 2018
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And no one understood because it was hid from them. The disciples did not preach Paul’s gospel.
There is no point to that.

Neither paul or the disciples controlled or frame heaven.

If the disciples understood fully ......what then?

Admit suddenly Jesus came to die for the entire world?

Your point is na.
 
Jul 23, 2018
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In the death, burial and resurrection of Jesus for sins. That’s the only message that can save.
No message saves

Salvation is a person.

Paul and the jailer were saved outside your message/doctrine.
 
Jul 23, 2018
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""I’ve studied it out in depth a lot. KJV is a joke when it comes to accurate translations""

Get you a copy of green's greek interlinear with king James in the margin.

It is AMAZING CLOSE.

You have no basis for your wild claim
 

John146

Senior Member
Jan 13, 2016
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No message saves

Salvation is a person.

Paul and the jailer were saved outside your message/doctrine.
Lol, If I told someone to trust Jesus Christ as their Savior, they could not be saved. They must hear the testimony of Jesus Christ. That's the message. Do you trust Jesus Christ? How? By hearing the word of God...the message of Jesus Christ. The two cannot be separated.
 
Mar 28, 2016
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No message saves

Salvation is a person.

Paul and the jailer were saved outside your message/doctrine.
Salvation is a work of a person.

The gospel. . the death, burial and resurrection of Jesus for sins .It is the message we preach. the water of the word Christ does the teaching and quickening of one soul . We can plant the seed and as labor of love working with us in pains of birth a living hope, a hope Christ will be formed in them .

Galatians 4:19 My little children, of whom I travail in birth again until Christ be formed in you,
 

Marcelo

Senior Member
Feb 4, 2016
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Some people believe not all New Testament is for Christian, .
What do you take on this view?
That's correct: not all New Testament is for Christians. When Jesus told his disciples to obey the scribes and Pharisees, He had in mind only the Jews because they were still under the law of Moses.


He didn't have in mind the Christians He had in mind only the Jews because they were still under the law of Moses.

Jesus (when He was on earth) said that it is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for a rich person to enter heaven. Paul, however, said that it is ok to be rich provided you are generous and not arrogant. Were it not for Paul's words Christian Chat members would be in trouble because most of us here are rich.

Does Paul have more authority than Jesus? No, he has not, but his words do because they are Jesus' words.
 

mustaphadrink

Senior Member
Dec 13, 2013
1,987
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In a literal sense, the New Testament is for the New Testament Church or for the people that it was written to. James writes to the 12 tribes that are scattered abroad and in Revelation John writes to the seven churches in Asia.

Therefore the various letters or epistles are written to specific people with a specific purpose in mind. It doesn't hurt to know who they are written to or what for as that gives us a background into which the words have been written.

I have been doing quite a comprehensive study of the background to the New Testament Church which has been very helpful in understanding scripture.

Do the words apply to us? Yes and no. In its original application, no it doesn't so it is important to understand the why of the words as it can be used to mean what it doesn't mean, which sad to say is quite common.

We are constantly told to keep things in context and I think that we can only really understand scripture when we do that. As we understand the context we are better able to draw out any meaning for ourselves.

As an example, when it comes to the subject of money the prosperity preachers haven't got a clue as they have chosen to interpret scripture to fit their theology whereas we should make our theology fit the scriptures.

I have discovered that the Lord's prayer is not give us this day our daily bread but give us this day our bread for tomorrow. As I chased this thought and checked up on the background, I discovered that the New Testament Church never thought beyond tomorrow. If they went to bed with enough food for the next day they were content.

So prosperity scripture wise is food for today and enough for tomorrow. If they had a surplus of anything they gave to others who may be in need. As a very good friend of mine described prosperity as having enough for your needs and some leftover for others. If God wants to bless a person with more than that he is free to do so but it is not something that we strive for or preach to ask for donations to fill my coffers. :geek:

I have been told that more than one prosperity preacher has a house that cost 10 million dollars. I can't for the life of me work out why ANYONE needs a house that costs 10 million dollars not when there are millions of people on this earth who would be grateful for $10.
 
Mar 28, 2016
15,954
1,528
113
In a literal sense, the New Testament is for the New Testament Church or for the people that it was written to. James writes to the 12 tribes that are scattered abroad and in Revelation John writes to the seven churches in Asia.

Therefore the various letters or epistles are written to specific people with a specific purpose in mind. It doesn't hurt to know who they are written to or what for as that gives us a background into which the words have been written.

I have been doing quite a comprehensive study of the background to the New Testament Church which has been very helpful in understanding scripture.

Do the words apply to us? Yes and no. In its original application, no it doesn't so it is important to understand the why of the words as it can be used to mean what it doesn't mean, which sad to say is quite common.

We are constantly told to keep things in context and I think that we can only really understand scripture when we do that. As we understand the context we are better able to draw out any meaning for ourselves.

As an example, when it comes to the subject of money the prosperity preachers haven't got a clue as they have chosen to interpret scripture to fit their theology whereas we should make our theology fit the scriptures.

I have discovered that the Lord's prayer is not give us this day our daily bread but give us this day our bread for tomorrow. As I chased this thought and checked up on the background, I discovered that the New Testament Church never thought beyond tomorrow. If they went to bed with enough food for the next day they were content.

So prosperity scripture wise is food for today and enough for tomorrow. If they had a surplus of anything they gave to others who may be in need. As a very good friend of mine described prosperity as having enough for your needs and some leftover for others. If God wants to bless a person with more than that he is free to do so but it is not something that we strive for or preach to ask for donations to fill my coffers. :geek:

I have been told that more than one prosperity preacher has a house that cost 10 million dollars. I can't for the life of me work out why ANYONE needs a house that costs 10 million dollars not when there are millions of people on this earth who would be grateful for $10.
The Bible is written to mankind . All scripture is God breathed and profitable for knowing God. One book, the book of the law. No theories of men. The prophecy Of God .

We are to rightly divide it .Not the church made up of all the nations that hear the word and believe God.
 

mustaphadrink

Senior Member
Dec 13, 2013
1,987
371
83
The Bible is written to mankind . All scripture is God breathed and profitable for knowing God. One book, the book of the law. No theories of men. The prophecy Of God .

We are to rightly divide it .Not the church made up of all the nations that hear the word and believe God.
I am not sure how what you have said relates to what I have said. You have made some statements without clarification. As I am autistic I am no good at reading between the lines.
 

Jackson123

Senior Member
Feb 6, 2014
11,769
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That's correct: not all New Testament is for Christians. When Jesus told his disciples to obey the scribes and Pharisees, He had in mind only the Jews because they were still under the law of Moses.


He didn't have in mind the Christians He had in mind only the Jews because they were still under the law of Moses.

Jesus (when He was on earth) said that it is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for a rich person to enter heaven. Paul, however, said that it is ok to be rich provided you are generous and not arrogant. Were it not for Paul's words Christian Chat members would be in trouble because most of us here are rich.

Does Paul have more authority than Jesus? No, he has not, but his words do because they are Jesus' words.
Do you believe news testament is a gospel?
 

Jackson123

Senior Member
Feb 6, 2014
11,769
1,370
113
I have discovered that the Lord's prayer is not give us this day our daily bread but give us this day our bread for tomorrow. As I chased this thought and checked up on the background, I discovered that the New Testament Church never thought beyond tomorrow. If they went to bed with enough food for the next day they were content.
Yep, some preacher have enough bread for 100 years, so they buy 5 private jet
 

Skovand

Active member
Aug 17, 2020
359
54
28
Southeastern USA
In a literal sense, the New Testament is for the New Testament Church or for the people that it was written to. James writes to the 12 tribes that are scattered abroad and in Revelation John writes to the seven churches in Asia.

Therefore the various letters or epistles are written to specific people with a specific purpose in mind. It doesn't hurt to know who they are written to or what for as that gives us a background into which the words have been written.

I have been doing quite a comprehensive study of the background to the New Testament Church which has been very helpful in understanding scripture.

Do the words apply to us? Yes and no. In its original application, no it doesn't so it is important to understand the why of the words as it can be used to mean what it doesn't mean, which sad to say is quite common.

We are constantly told to keep things in context and I think that we can only really understand scripture when we do that. As we understand the context we are better able to draw out any meaning for ourselves.

As an example, when it comes to the subject of money the prosperity preachers haven't got a clue as they have chosen to interpret scripture to fit their theology whereas we should make our theology fit the scriptures.

I have discovered that the Lord's prayer is not give us this day our daily bread but give us this day our bread for tomorrow. As I chased this thought and checked up on the background, I discovered that the New Testament Church never thought beyond tomorrow. If they went to bed with enough food for the next day they were content.

So prosperity scripture wise is food for today and enough for tomorrow. If they had a surplus of anything they gave to others who may be in need. As a very good friend of mine described prosperity as having enough for your needs and some leftover for others. If God wants to bless a person with more than that he is free to do so but it is not something that we strive for or preach to ask for donations to fill my coffers. :geek:

I have been told that more than one prosperity preacher has a house that cost 10 million dollars. I can't for the life of me work out why ANYONE needs a house that costs 10 million dollars not when there are millions of people on this earth who would be grateful for $10.
I agree with the view that we must understand who the original audience is. I have not studied out or ever heard the view about “tomorrow and being content” and so I can’t say either way. As for how money is spent that’s part scriptural and part philosophy.
 

Marcelo

Senior Member
Feb 4, 2016
2,359
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Do you believe news testament is a gospel?
Maybe you want to know if I think that the gospels are really gospels (good news). Well, I think that without the other NT books the gospels are actually "bad news". The gospels demand perfection whereas the epistles are more tolerant (but not completely as many pastors preach), because they teach salvation by grace.

According to the gospels, if you just look at someone with lust you are an adulterer, but according to the epistles you would have to do the deed.

To make it short, without the epistles we would have to comply with the whole law of Moses + the ammendments (new interpretation) made by Jesus in order to achieve salvation. That means: salvation would be impossible.
 

Jackson123

Senior Member
Feb 6, 2014
11,769
1,370
113
Maybe you want to know if I think that the gospels are really gospels (good news). Well, I think that without the other NT books the gospels are actually "bad news". The gospels demand perfection whereas the epistles are more tolerant (but not completely as many pastors preach), because they teach salvation by grace.

According to the gospels, if you just look at someone with lust you are an adulterer, but according to the epistles you would have to do the deed.

To make it short, without the epistles we would have to comply with the whole law of Moses + the ammendments (new interpretation) made by Jesus in order to achieve salvation. That means: salvation would be impossible.
The problem is Jesus the big boss not the apostle, the big boss ask the apostle to preach the gospel to all nation.
I know not easy to me to comply the gospel, but I know I am not suthorized to change and make easier for me, make my own gospel. If I do, It Will not going to valid and the judgement Will use real gospel, not my gospel.
 

Skovand

Active member
Aug 17, 2020
359
54
28
Southeastern USA
The problem is Jesus the big boss not the apostle, the big boss ask the apostle to preach the gospel to all nation.
I know not easy to me to comply the gospel, but I know I am not suthorized to change and make easier for me, make my own gospel. If I do, It Will not going to valid and the judgement Will use real gospel, not my gospel.
Jesus spoke what his father gave him to speak. Now God through the Holy Spirit gave the apostles what to say. It’s still all the same message being perfected by the one true boss.
 

Jackson123

Senior Member
Feb 6, 2014
11,769
1,370
113
Jesus spoke what his father gave him to speak. Now God through the Holy Spirit gave the apostles what to say. It’s still all the same message being perfected by the one true boss.
So all the apostle teaching is the same gospel Jesus tought isn't It?
 

Marcelo

Senior Member
Feb 4, 2016
2,359
859
113
73
The problem is Jesus the big boss not the apostle, the big boss ask the apostle to preach the gospel to all nation.
I know not easy to me to comply the gospel, but I know I am not suthorized to change and make easier for me, make my own gospel. If I do, It Will not going to valid and the judgement Will use real gospel, not my gospel.
Jesus chose Paul to be his spokesperson. If do what Paul says you are following Christ. If you do what Jesus said before the cross you are following Moses.
 

Jackson123

Senior Member
Feb 6, 2014
11,769
1,370
113
Jesus chose Paul to be his spokesperson. If do what Paul says you are following Christ. If you do what Jesus said before the cross you are following Moses.
and this is what the Jesus spokeman say

1 cor 6
9 Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind,
10 Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God.
 

Marcelo

Senior Member
Feb 4, 2016
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859
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and this is what the Jesus spokeman say

1 cor 6
9 Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind,
10 Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God.
You are absolutely correct! Adulterers, fornicators, and practicing homosexuals will not inherit the kingdom of God. If you, however, look at a woman other than your spouse with sexual desire, but change your mind soon enough you will not be counted as an adulterer.

Jesus said (before the cross) that you if you just look you are already and adulterer, but Paul (relaying Jesus' teaching after the cross) doesn't say that.