Is the teaching of Jesus before His crucifixion only for Jews?

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posthuman

Senior Member
Jul 31, 2013
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Healing depends on faith, not on having perfect works. Jesus was showing what would be necessary to be saved by the Law so that the disciples realized how impossible it was. Only after the cross Jesus would reveal the way to salvation (by grace through faith).
the healings are signs and types signifying salvation
 

Grandpa

Senior Member
Jun 24, 2011
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There aren't a bunch of different Laws. Moses Law = Jesus "Law" = Pauls Law

The Lord Jesus magnified the Law in Matthew 5 just like it was prophesied He would.

Paul explains this in Romans 7

Romans 7:14 For we know that the law is spiritual: but I am carnal, sold under sin.


Paul doesn't relax the conditions of the Law as stated by the Lord. Paul shows that we can't follow the Law by our own understanding and strength, even though we want to. We need the Grace and Mercy of the Lord for obedience and for when we fail.

Matthew 15:24 But he answered and said, I am not sent but unto the lost sheep of the house of Israel.

Is the Lord Jesus only for jewish people? I don't understand why anyone would think that. Especially Christians.
 

John146

Senior Member
Jan 13, 2016
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Matthew 15:24 But he answered and said, I am not sent but unto the lost sheep of the house of Israel.

Is the Lord Jesus only for jewish people? I don't understand why anyone would think that. Especially Christians.
The nation of Israel was lost, without a shepherd. They had no king or kingdom. The prophets foretold of one coming who would restore the kingdom of Israel with the rightful King on the throne of David. This is a Jewish message. It was not for Gentiles nor Samaritans. When the Jews rejected their King, even after the resurrection, the Lord would get the message of the cross to the Gentile world through Paul.
 

Guojing

Well-known member
Jan 12, 2019
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Matthew 15:24 But he answered and said, I am not sent but unto the lost sheep of the house of Israel.

Is the Lord Jesus only for jewish people? I don't understand why anyone would think that. Especially Christians.
Jesus first coming to Earth was to the circumcised nation (Romans 15:8)

Ephesians 2:11-12
11 Wherefore remember, that ye being in time past Gentiles in the flesh, who are called Uncircumcision by that which is called the Circumcision in the flesh made by hands;

12 That at that time ye were without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope, and without God in the world:
 

Sipsey

Well-known member
Sep 27, 2018
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Jesus first coming to Earth was to the circumcised nation (Romans 15:8)

Ephesians 2:11-12
11 Wherefore remember, that ye being in time past Gentiles in the flesh, who are called Uncircumcision by that which is called the Circumcision in the flesh made by hands;

12 That at that time ye were without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope, and without God in the world:
I may have missed this point and if so excuse my redundancy. I understand Israel’s covenant and promises. What many seem to gloss over is why was Israel chosen by God? What was to be their role and relationship to the pagans near and far? Was their rejection of their prophesied Messiah such a surprise that God had to change His plan?

The verses that speak to me say that Israel was to have such a good relationship with God as to make the gentiles jealous and then present the gospel. Am I wrong?
 

Marcelo

Senior Member
Feb 4, 2016
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Paul law prohibit adultery
Moses law prohibit adultery
What the different between Paul law and Moses law?

What verse that say Paul law about adultery not the same as Jesus law?
Adultery has always been a serious sin (according to Moses, to Jesus and to Paul). The difference is that, according to Jesus' interpretation of the law, if you just look you are an adulterer.
 

Marcelo

Senior Member
Feb 4, 2016
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nope
Jesus was first to introduce the born again experience.
Jesus came as a sacrificial lamb. His mission was to give his life for mankind.

You pauline onlies pervert and misframe the gospels.

For what????

Why do you need the gospels perverted?????
Do you obey the scribes and Pharisees as the earthly Jesus commanded the Jews or do you follow Paul (Jesus' spokesman after the ressurrection) who says we are not under the law?

Have you already given away all your properties as Jesus commanded the Jews or do you follow Paul who says that Christians can be rich provided they are generous and not arrogant?
 

lenna

Well-known member
Jun 2, 2020
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Maybe you want to know if I think that the gospels are really gospels (good news). Well, I think that without the other NT books the gospels are actually "bad news". The gospels demand perfection whereas the epistles are more tolerant (but not completely as many pastors preach), because they teach salvation by grace.

According to the gospels, if you just look at someone with lust you are an adulterer, but according to the epistles you would have to do the deed.

To make it short, without the epistles we would have to comply with the whole law of Moses + the ammendments (new interpretation) made by Jesus in order to achieve salvation. That means: salvation would be impossible.
nothing has changed. all the commandments of God still apply, however to those washed in the blood of Christ, we are no longer under condemnation

who has taught you that Jesus has nothing to say to us today?

Jesus has fulfilled all that God required for the guilt of sin to be done away with

do you actually know who Jesus is? from where I sit reading your post(s) it does not seem you know Him at all

the letters, or epistles, are instructional and historic. they do not bring about salvation but they do help to explain it

salvation is impossible for us, but as Jesus said, it is possible through God

25 When the disciples heard this, they were greatly astonished and asked, “Who then can be saved?”

26 Jesus looked at them and said, “With man this is impossible, but with God all things are possible.” Matthew 19

so even if you have obeyed every commandment as the rich young ruler said to Jesus that he had, what Jesus is really asking, is what is worth more to you? your riches or salvation which you cannot buy, not even with all your wealth

salvation is not possible except through Jesus, so to dismiss His words, is to dismiss the very thing that the rich young man walked away from

May God have mercy and open your heart to see this
 

lenna

Well-known member
Jun 2, 2020
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Adultery has always been a serious sin (according to Moses, to Jesus and to Paul). The difference is that, according to Jesus' interpretation of the law, if you just look you are an adulterer.
Jesus interpretation of the law? Do you not know that Jesus is the fulfillment of the law and the final sacrifice that has fulfilled all obligations anyone has to obey the law?

Do you not have the indwelling Holy Spirit to guide you in your life and to enable you to walk righteously before God?

even so, we will never be perfect on this earth which is why Jesus died for us. you do not represent the truth of scripture, but rather some very confusing doctrine that it seems you have swallowed. the law was a shadow; Jesus is the obedience and fulfillment of
that law for us
 

lenna

Well-known member
Jun 2, 2020
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He didn't have in mind the Christians He had in mind only the Jews because they were still under the law of Moses.
that is not true

as the first Christians were actually Jewish, that makes what you say above incorrect

Jesus prayed for all who would be His. how is it you not aware of this? could it be because you dismiss the gospels?
 

posthuman

Senior Member
Jul 31, 2013
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Yes, normally a person who receives healing has faith and probably will be saved.
No what i mean is, when Jesus opens the eyes of the blind this is an image of what salvation is, like a parable. When He raises the dead this is a figure of salvation, like a metaphor. When He cures and makes whole a leper, this is a direct analogy and heavenly sign describing what salvation is and how it is accomplished.

It is more than a person having been healed. I am not talking about whether those peoples souls are saved or not.

Salvation is like being cure of leprosy. You had an uncurable disease of sin that was 100% resulting in your death, but because you looked to God for mercy, trusting that He was able to grant it, He took it away and made you clean. All these things are signs to Israel not just of who He is but also of what He is there to do.

So the significance of the fact that no one was healed because they had done some task or kept some rule or made some sacrifice, but because of their faith, is that Jesus was preaching salvation to sinners by grace through faith apart from works exactly like He later taught Paul.

multiple-gospels dispensationalism is horrendously wrong, and ignorant of what Christ was doing, IMO.
 

Marcelo

Senior Member
Feb 4, 2016
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nothing has changed. all the commandments of God still apply, however to those washed in the blood of Christ, we are no longer under condemnation

who has taught you that Jesus has nothing to say to us today?
Before the cross Jesus talked mainly to the Jews, and after the cross he talked to Christians through Paul and other apostles.
 

Jackson123

Senior Member
Feb 6, 2014
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Adultery has always been a serious sin (according to Moses, to Jesus and to Paul). The difference is that, according to Jesus' interpretation of the law, if you just look you are an adulterer.
And do you think Paul agree with Jesus interpretation or not?
 

Marcelo

Senior Member
Feb 4, 2016
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Jesus has fulfilled all that God required for the guilt of sin to be done away with
I agree, but that doesn't mean all teachings of Jesus given to the Jews still apply.
 

Marcelo

Senior Member
Feb 4, 2016
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[QUOTE="lenna, post: 4370267, member: 297965"

salvation is not possible except through Jesus, so to dismiss His words, is to dismiss the very thing that the rich young man walked away from [/QUOTE]

While on earth Jesus taught obedience to the law of Moses. After the ressurrection he set his people free from the bondage of the law through the apostles, especially Paul. In order to be saved we have to dismiss Jesus' words about keeping the law.
 

John146

Senior Member
Jan 13, 2016
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And do you think Paul agree with Jesus interpretation or not?
The Lord would reveal even more truth to the Apostle Paul through an abundance of revelations given to him. Through these revelations come the foundation of the church and how to live the crucified life as a member of the church.
 

Marcelo

Senior Member
Feb 4, 2016
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the letters, or epistles, are instructional and historic. they do not bring about salvation but they do help to explain it
Great theologians have always said that and that is what I have believed for some 30 years. We are all led to believe that Jesus' words always take precedence over Paul's because the King is infinetely greatear than the apostle. Some 4 years ago, however, I started watching videos like the one below and began to understand why Jesus said things like: "obey the scribes and Pharisees, sell all you have", etc.

 

Jackson123

Senior Member
Feb 6, 2014
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The Lord would reveal even more truth to the Apostle Paul through an abundance of revelations given to him. Through these revelations come the foundation of the church and how to live the crucified life as a member of the church.
.is that mean Paul agree with Jesus interpretation?
 

lenna

Well-known member
Jun 2, 2020
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I agree, but that doesn't mean all teachings of Jesus given to the Jews still apply.
who said they did? the law is fulfilled by Jesus

While on earth Jesus taught obedience to the law of Moses. After the ressurrection he set his people free from the bondage of the law through the apostles, especially Paul. In order to be saved we have to dismiss Jesus' words about keeping the law.
did Jesus say keep the law for salvation? He said to believe in Him for salvation. everyone who does not believe in Him is still under condemnation, including Jews.


Great theologians have always said that and that is what I have believed for some 30 years. We are all led to believe that Jesus' words always take precedence over Paul's because the King is infinetely greatear than the apostle. Some 4 years ago, however, I started watching videos like the one below and began to understand why Jesus said things like: "obey the scribes and Pharisees, sell all you have", etc.
God promised His Son, Jesus. He did not promise Paul who was persecuting the Christians until Jesus stopped Him by revealing Himself to Paul...at the time Saul

if anyone is telling you what Paul says is more important than Jesus, they are a false teacher and do not understand the scriptures

teaching that we can dismiss the words of Jesus is FALSE teaching and may even be heretical. Jesus summed up the law by giving a 'new commandment' did you miss that?