" Maybe its real and im just not Chosen "

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PennEd

PennEd

Senior Member
#41
Apr 22, 2013
13,587
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#41
throughfaith said:
So either you aren't real
Or I am just not chosen
Maybe I'll never know
Either way my heart is broken
This is the lyrics from a well known, former professing Calvinist , singer song writer Derick Webb . Now self proclaimed 'reformed atheist ' .
i think this video explains some of the issues with Calvinism / Lordship salvation. This is an interview with Derick Webb ,who is now an atheist/ agnostic but formerly a famous singer song writer, professing Calvinist. I think what he says exposes some of the logical consequences of Calvinism and Lordship salvation .
Starting about the 50 min mark onwards are the key parts . till about 102 min mark .
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A professed Calvinist? I don’t even know any of those who describe their doctrinal beliefs as “professed Calvinism “

They profess to be Christians. Believers in Jesus Christ.

Quite frankly, this is stupid.
If this guy professed to be a follower of Calvin, rather than Christ, then guess what? He was never a Christian and his word is less than worthless!
 
SoulWeaver

SoulWeaver

Senior Member
#42
Oct 25, 2014
4,889
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#42
throughfaith said:
I have to take Derick at his word as a now professing Atheist . My point is He was a former professing Calvinist .
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I am not a Calvinist, and yet before I believed, I had a lot of doubts and was wondering if I was chosen too. I had not even read the whole Bible back then, I just owned a mini book, the Gospel of Matthew. I wondered if I was a goat or a sheep - "who am I"?
I don't know how do you plan on circumventing the concept of election and decisions ultimately stemming from one's identity, because this view is baked into the Bible.
 
NOV25

NOV25

Well-known member
#43
Nov 23, 2019
977
386
63
#43
PennEd said:
A professed Calvinist? I don’t even know any of those who describe their doctrinal beliefs as “professed Calvinism “

They profess to be Christians. Believers in Jesus Christ.

Quite frankly, this is stupid.
If this guy professed to be a follower of Calvin, rather than Christ, then guess what? He was never a Christian and his word is less than worthless!
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If you watch the end of the video he claims to have been raised "calvinist" and believes the doctrine true, its just that he doesn't believe in God, yet. In other words, he understands the only way to believe is by the indwelling of the Spirit, it just hasn't happened to him yet.
 
T

throughfaith

Well-known member
#44
Aug 4, 2020
10,467
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#44
NOV25 said:
And given the opportunity what would you tell him? Seems he debates people like you often and by what I've seen you post here, he's definitely more knowledgable than you.
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ok this sounds like pistols at dawn you rotter . lol I would tell him the same thing I would anyone coming from a Catholic / Jehovah witness / Mormon/ SDA/ background and point them towards the Jesus who actually died for everyone's sins and can actually believe the Gospel and recieve Jesus . The same message most Calvinists heard before they were taken captive by a false message/ theological worldview.
 
NOV25

NOV25

Well-known member
#45
Nov 23, 2019
977
386
63
#45
throughfaith said:
ok this sounds like pistols at dawn you rotter . lol I would tell him the same thing I would anyone coming from a Catholic / Jehovah witness / Mormon/ SDA/ background and point them towards the Jesus who actually died for everyone's sins and can actually believe the Gospel and recieve Jesus . The same message most Calvinists heard before they were taken captive by a false message/ theological worldview.
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Ok he'd definitely shred you
 
T

throughfaith

Well-known member
#46
Aug 4, 2020
10,467
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#46
SoulWeaver said:
I am not a Calvinist, and yet before I believed, I had a lot of doubts and was wondering if I was chosen too. I had not even read the whole Bible back then, I just owned a mini book, the Gospel of Matthew. I wondered if I was a goat or a sheep - "who am I"?
I don't know how do you plan on circumventing the concept of election and decisions ultimately stemming from one's identity, because this view is baked into the Bible.
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See straight away ,no one is a sheep or a goat in that reference . Its the ' nations ' not individuals . This is the problem with Calvinism. And Elected for what ? Election is to service, calling and purpose, not to salvation. (Isa. 42:1; Acts 9:15; Rom. 11:28)
 
SoulWeaver

SoulWeaver

Senior Member
#47
Oct 25, 2014
4,889
2,534
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#47
throughfaith said:
See straight away ,no one is a sheep or a goat in that reference . Its the ' nations ' not individuals . This is the problem with Calvinism. And Elected for what ? Election is to service, calling and purpose, not to salvation. (Isa. 42:1; Acts 9:15; Rom. 11:28)
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I don't agree. "Many are called but few are chosen". Now you equate "the called" with "the elect". Our Father wants everyone to work in His vineyard. You're doing no better here than the Calvinists when they equate "the world" with "the elect" (for God so loved the world = the elect).
 
T

throughfaith

Well-known member
#49
Aug 4, 2020
10,467
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#49
SoulWeaver said:
I don't agree. "Many are called but few are chosen". Now you equate "the called" with "the elect". Our Father wants everyone to work in His vineyard. You're doing no better here than the Calvinists when they equate "the world" with "the elect" (for God so loved the world = the elect).
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Not sure what you mean ?
 
SoulWeaver

SoulWeaver

Senior Member
#51
Oct 25, 2014
4,889
2,534
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#51
throughfaith said:
And Elected for what ? Election is to service, calling and purpose, not to salvation. (Isa. 42:1; Acts 9:15; Rom. 11:28)
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throughfaith said:
Not sure what you mean ?
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I mean how you say "election is not to salvation". I don't agree with that. You're trying to change the definition of the elect.
Those who serve Him are the saved, these are one and the same group. But everyone is called to serve Him and to be given a purpose in Him, not only the elect.

Romans 11:5 Even so then at this present time also there is a remnant according to the election of grace.
Romans 9:27 Esaias also crieth concerning Israel, Though the number of the children of Israel be as the sand of the sea, a remnant shall be saved:
Romans 8:33 Who shall lay any thing to the charge of God's elect? It is God that justifieth.
 
NOV25

NOV25

Well-known member
#54
Nov 23, 2019
977
386
63
#54
throughfaith said:
Maybe . look at Matt slick . I think if He suddenly became an Atheist lots of Arminians would be in danger .
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You admit the possibility of Derek Webb, an unbeliever who was raised calvinist, would shred you in a debate, yet you post thread after thread claiming the doctrine of grace to be false. Hmmm 🤔 may be time to reevaluate your presence here on CC.
 
jackrosie

jackrosie

Banned
#55
May 19, 2020
3,050
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#55
NOV25 said:
You admit the possibility of Derek Webb, an unbeliever who was raised calvinist, would shred you in a debate, yet you post thread after thread claiming the doctrine of grace to be false. Hmmm 🤔 may be time to reevaluate your presence here on CC.
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He claims the doctrine of grace to be false.....it’s by God’s Grace that we are saved,he denies that,seriously.
 
T

throughfaith

Well-known member
#57
Aug 4, 2020
10,467
1,593
113
#57
NOV25 said:
You admit the possibility of Derek Webb, an unbeliever who was raised calvinist, would shred you in a debate, yet you post thread after thread claiming the doctrine of grace to be false. Hmmm 🤔 may be time to reevaluate your presence here on CC.
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Well I'm wondering when your going to discuss something that supports your worldview of the DOG ?
 
T

throughfaith

Well-known member
#59
Aug 4, 2020
10,467
1,593
113
#59
SoulWeaver said:
I don't agree. "Many are called but few are chosen". Now you equate "the called" with "the elect". Our Father wants everyone to work in His vineyard. You're doing no better here than the Calvinists when they equate "the world" with "the elect" (for God so loved the world = the elect).
Click to expand...
Many are called and few are chosen . Who's Jesus speaking to ? you in 2020 ? and then we have Judas ?
 
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