Calvinism and Context?

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1ofthem

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Mar 30, 2016
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He testified to your spirit after you were saved?..how does that work?




He testified to my spirit,right on my saving,my spirit recognised the Holy Spirit instantly.adopted there and then.His Child.
We don't become his children until we are saved. That is what I am trying to say, he would not testify this before we are saved. Because we are not his children, until we are saved.
 

cv5

Well-known member
Nov 20, 2018
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You're missing so much in Job. There certainly was a degree of ignorance being spoken, but God's answer to Job wasn't to deny accountability. In fact God coming to answer for Himself affirms our ability to hold God to His character.

One of the things that is easily missed about that book is it is structured like a ANE trial with Job's 3 friends in the role of prosecutor. Then Job makes a sworn declaration of innocence which requires God to make an accusation. In steps Elihu who declares that he is speaking for God and holds up God's majesty and Job's lowliness as grounds for God not answering Job and Elihu accuses Job of sinning.

So what does God do? He answers Job and doesn't accuse him. Instead God presents the manner in which He cares for creation and arranges grand and small details to demonstrate that nothing escapes His notice. God in essence affirms Job's statements of innocence, though censuring him for some of his speech that was done in ignorance. God's argument is not "you are too lowly to question me," but rather "do you think anything escapes my notice?"

Yet as I predicted earlier your view is more in line with Elihu than Job, as you presume to speak for God.
Well all of that was quite informative thank you. I really appreciated it and enjoyed it.

Except for the final word of accusation that is. Your caustic and abrasive attacks are never-ending. It's literally a slap in my face. Come to think of it, you are stomping on me in the supposed profundity of your scholarly prowess in the very same way you say God will never do to his fragile creation.

I find that highly ironic........don't you?
 
May 19, 2020
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I just showed you the sequence.
And please do not tell me what I do and do not understand.

The Holy Spirit does NOT indwell a non born again person ................and testifying to our spirit is about being indwelt by the Holy Spirit, which confirms our new birth.

This is does not happen prior to belief.

You do not understand,God testifies to our Spirit.....you don’t understand what that means.

Show me the scripture where it says,God testifies to our Spirit that we are his children after we are saved...what you have posted has nothing to do with testifying to our Spirit.
 
May 19, 2020
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We don't become his children until we are saved. That is what I am trying to say, he would not testify this before we are saved. Because we are not his children, until we are saved.
He testifies to our Spirit on our saving,that I agree with....not after salvation.
 
May 19, 2020
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I just showed you the sequence.
And please do not tell me what I do and do not understand.

The Holy Spirit does NOT indwell a non born again person ................and testifying to our spirit is about being indwelt by the Holy Spirit, which confirms our new birth.

This is does not happen prior to belief.

A testifying to our Spirit from God happens there and then,that’s how we know we are his children,because he testifies it to our Spirit...what part of that don’t you understand?
 
Apr 2, 2020
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Well all of that was quite informative thank you. I really appreciated it and enjoyed it.

Except for the final word of accusation that is. Your caustic and abrasive attacks are never-ending. It's literally a slap in my face. Come to think of it, you are stomping on me in the supposed profundity of your scholarly prowess in the very same way you say God will never do to his fragile creation.

I find that highly ironic........don't you?
I apologize if my approach is caustic and abrasive, I don't mean to be attacking you on any sort of personal level.

The accusation at the end isn't about your holding the position you do, I'm pretty sure I've said before there I see legitimate grounds for viewing things through such a lens. It's about the manner in which you approach disagreement, with the numerous times you've presented your position as beyond reproach simply by declarations of its truth.

I'll try to be more cognizant of how I may come across as I don't mean anything personal by my approach.
 

cv5

Well-known member
Nov 20, 2018
18,837
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He routinely tries to shut down conversation by challenging our right to question, placing himself and his doctrine in the position of God. The post I quoted has an underlying implication of that.
False. I have never tried to shut down any conversation. And I certainly have never said that I'm speaking for God. There goes your mind-reading again please shut it down.

On the contrary I am opening up new topics all the time.

Hey is your middle name Elihu? Just wondering.
 
E

EleventhHour

Guest
You do not understand,God testifies to our Spirit.....you don’t understand what that means.

Show me the scripture where it says,God testifies to our Spirit that we are his children after we are saved...what you have posted has nothing to do with testifying to our Spirit.
I have .. read it in black and white

14 Just as Moses lifted up the snake in the wilderness, so the Son of Man must be lifted up,[f] 15 that everyone who believes (FIRST) may have eternal life (SECOND) in him.”


The Holy Spirit indwells at regeneration, where our dead spirit is quickened and not before!
 
Apr 2, 2020
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False. I have never tried to shut down any conversation. And I certainly have never said that I'm speaking for God. There goes your mind-reading again please shut it down.

On the contrary I am opening up new topics all the time.

Hey is your middle name Elihu? Just wondering.
You complain of my caustic approach and abrasiveness, and then turn around with this?

How many times have you accused us of "questioning God" when we are presenting you with challenges to your doctrine? How many times have you simply asserted that your interpretation of Scripture is "boilerplate, iron clad" or other such declarations rather than addressing the Scripture at hand or the criticism we've leveled against it?

This type of childishness is what gets threads shut down, if you want to play such games further conversation will be short lived.
 

cv5

Well-known member
Nov 20, 2018
18,837
7,330
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I just showed you the sequence.
And please do not tell me what I do and do not understand.

The Holy Spirit does NOT indwell a non born again person ................and testifying to our spirit is about being indwelt by the Holy Spirit, which confirms our new birth.

This is does not happen prior to belief.
The Holy Spirit does not confirm our rebirth. It is the cause of our rebirth.
I have said this several times already.......the gift of the Holy Spirit confirms our election!
That is the way it works that is the only way it can work!


Furthermore the arabbon of the Holy Spirit comes far after election has been established (this occurring in eternity past).
 

cv5

Well-known member
Nov 20, 2018
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I apologize if my approach is caustic and abrasive, I don't mean to be attacking you on any sort of personal level.

The accusation at the end isn't about your holding the position you do, I'm pretty sure I've said before there I see legitimate grounds for viewing things through such a lens. It's about the manner in which you approach disagreement, with the numerous times you've presented your position as beyond reproach simply by declarations of its truth.

I'll try to be more cognizant of how I may come across as I don't mean anything personal by my approach.
Apology accepted. Now let us carry on shall we?
 
May 19, 2020
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The Holy Spirit does not confirm our rebirth. It is the cause of our rebirth.


Not sure about this cv,...

God testifies to our spirit that we are his child...Can you explain what you mean here more please.?
 

cv5

Well-known member
Nov 20, 2018
18,837
7,330
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You complain of my caustic approach and abrasiveness, and then turn around with this?

How many times have you accused us of "questioning God" when we are presenting you with challenges to your doctrine? How many times have you simply asserted that your interpretation of Scripture is "boilerplate, iron clad" or other such declarations rather than addressing the Scripture at hand or the criticism we've leveled against it?

This type of childishness is what gets threads shut down, if you want to play such games further conversation will be short lived.
That my friend is known as humor. Also known as defusing a volatile situation, with a future hope of a peaceable resolution.

And since that post was made before you provided me with an apology (which I accepted) let us agree to let bygones be bygones. Shall we?
 
Apr 2, 2020
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That my friend is known as humor. Also known as defusing a volatile situation, with a future hope of a peaceable resolution.

And since that post was made before you provided me with an apology (which I accepted) let us agree to let bygones be bygones. Shall we?
Absolutely, though such humor can come across very differently since text completely lacks any information about intent.

I will also add that some of my attitude is due to the dismissiveness that is prevalent among reformed theologians of any contrary positions rather than specifically something you've said so I do recognize I need to rein it in and not hold you accountable for the current state of theological discussion.
 
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