Calvinism and Context?
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[if I understand your point ^ ]
Here is where the following post I made (some time back) comes in.
Consider carefully:
[quoting old post]
Re: "many are called, but few chosen"
-- G2564 - kaleó / kalesai / keklēmenous - "to call / invite / name"
-- G2822 - klétos / klētoi / klētois - "to call / invite / summon"
It is important to notice how EACH of these is used in BOTH [/EACH] the Matthew 22:1-14 passage AND the Romans 8:28,30 verses
G2564 - kaleó / kalesai / keklēmenous - "to call / invite / name" -
Matthew 22:3 V-ANA
GRK: δούλους αὐτοῦ καλέσαι τοὺς κεκλημένους
NAS: out his slaves to call those
KJV: servants to call them that were bidden
INT: servants of him to call those having been invited
Matthew 22:3 V-RPM/P-AMP
GRK: καλέσαι τοὺς κεκλημένους εἰς τοὺς
NAS: those who had been invited to the wedding feast,
KJV: to call them that were bidden to
INT: to call those having been invited to the
Matthew 22:4 V-RPM/P-DMP
GRK: Εἴπατε τοῖς κεκλημένοις Ἰδοὺ τὸ
NAS: those who have been invited, Behold,
KJV: Tell them which are bidden, Behold,
INT: Say to those having been invited Behold the
Matthew 22:8 V-RPM/P-NMP
GRK: οἱ δὲ κεκλημένοι οὐκ ἦσαν
NAS: but those who were invited were not worthy.
KJV: but they which were bidden were
INT: those moreover having been invited not were
[these ^ had rejected the invitation/call, per vv.3,5,6 (re: "the FEAST/SUPPER" thing)]
Matthew 22:9 V-AMA-2P
GRK: ἐὰν εὕρητε καλέσατε εἰς τοὺς
NAS: as you find [there], invite to the wedding feast.'
KJV: ye shall find, bid to
INT: if you shall find invite to the
Romans 8:30 V-AIA-3S
GRK: τούτους καὶ ἐκάλεσεν καὶ οὓς
NAS: He also called; and these
KJV: he also called: and whom
INT: these also he called and whom
G2822 - klétos / klētoi / klētois - "to call / invite / summon" -
Matthew 22:14 Adj-NMP
GRK: γάρ εἰσιν κλητοὶ ὀλίγοι δὲ
NAS: For many are called, but few
KJV: many are called, but few
INT: indeed are called few however
Romans 8:28 Adj-DMP
GRK: κατὰ πρόθεσιν κλητοῖς οὖσιν
NAS: to those who are called according
KJV: to them who are the called according
INT: according to [his] purpose called are
[note: the Matthew 22:1-14 passage is referring to the "guests [plural]" of "the wedding FEAST/SUPPER" i.e. the promised and prophesied earthly Millennial Kingdom commencing upon His "RETURN" to the earth, whereas the Romans 8 passage is referring to (that which pertains to) "the Church which is His body" (who is not "the guests [plural]"), so there's that distinction to be noted also [which has to do with the "chronology" issue
]--not that this makes much difference in how the words are used (re: call/invite)]
[quoting from BibleHub]
"In the NT, 2822 /klētós ("divinely called") focuses on God's general call – i.e. the call (invitation) He gives to all people, so all can receive His salvation. God desires every person to call out to Him and receive His salvation (1 Tim 2:4,5). "Unfortunately, many choose not to – but all can; all don't but all can call out to God for His mercy (not just 'some')" (G. Archer)." [source: Bible Hub]
[end quoting from BibleHub]
[end quoting old post]
____________
Are you seeing my point [or, after examining the above, see it] about how these two Greek words are used in both of these two distinct contexts?
[this relates also to the "chronology" issues]
Here is where the following post I made (some time back) comes in.
Consider carefully:
[quoting old post]
Re: "many are called, but few chosen"
-- G2564 - kaleó / kalesai / keklēmenous - "to call / invite / name"
-- G2822 - klétos / klētoi / klētois - "to call / invite / summon"
It is important to notice how EACH of these is used in BOTH [/EACH] the Matthew 22:1-14 passage AND the Romans 8:28,30 verses
G2564 - kaleó / kalesai / keklēmenous - "to call / invite / name" -
Matthew 22:3 V-ANA
GRK: δούλους αὐτοῦ καλέσαι τοὺς κεκλημένους
NAS: out his slaves to call those
KJV: servants to call them that were bidden
INT: servants of him to call those having been invited
Matthew 22:3 V-RPM/P-AMP
GRK: καλέσαι τοὺς κεκλημένους εἰς τοὺς
NAS: those who had been invited to the wedding feast,
KJV: to call them that were bidden to
INT: to call those having been invited to the
Matthew 22:4 V-RPM/P-DMP
GRK: Εἴπατε τοῖς κεκλημένοις Ἰδοὺ τὸ
NAS: those who have been invited, Behold,
KJV: Tell them which are bidden, Behold,
INT: Say to those having been invited Behold the
Matthew 22:8 V-RPM/P-NMP
GRK: οἱ δὲ κεκλημένοι οὐκ ἦσαν
NAS: but those who were invited were not worthy.
KJV: but they which were bidden were
INT: those moreover having been invited not were
[these ^ had rejected the invitation/call, per vv.3,5,6 (re: "the FEAST/SUPPER" thing)]
Matthew 22:9 V-AMA-2P
GRK: ἐὰν εὕρητε καλέσατε εἰς τοὺς
NAS: as you find [there], invite to the wedding feast.'
KJV: ye shall find, bid to
INT: if you shall find invite to the
Romans 8:30 V-AIA-3S
GRK: τούτους καὶ ἐκάλεσεν καὶ οὓς
NAS: He also called; and these
KJV: he also called: and whom
INT: these also he called and whom
G2822 - klétos / klētoi / klētois - "to call / invite / summon" -
Matthew 22:14 Adj-NMP
GRK: γάρ εἰσιν κλητοὶ ὀλίγοι δὲ
NAS: For many are called, but few
KJV: many are called, but few
INT: indeed are called few however
Romans 8:28 Adj-DMP
GRK: κατὰ πρόθεσιν κλητοῖς οὖσιν
NAS: to those who are called according
KJV: to them who are the called according
INT: according to [his] purpose called are
[note: the Matthew 22:1-14 passage is referring to the "guests [plural]" of "the wedding FEAST/SUPPER" i.e. the promised and prophesied earthly Millennial Kingdom commencing upon His "RETURN" to the earth, whereas the Romans 8 passage is referring to (that which pertains to) "the Church which is His body" (who is not "the guests [plural]"), so there's that distinction to be noted also [which has to do with the "chronology" issue
]--not that this makes much difference in how the words are used (re: call/invite)][quoting from BibleHub]
"In the NT, 2822 /klētós ("divinely called") focuses on God's general call – i.e. the call (invitation) He gives to all people, so all can receive His salvation. God desires every person to call out to Him and receive His salvation (1 Tim 2:4,5). "Unfortunately, many choose not to – but all can; all don't but all can call out to God for His mercy (not just 'some')" (G. Archer)." [source: Bible Hub]
[end quoting from BibleHub]
[end quoting old post]
____________
Are you seeing my point [or, after examining the above, see it] about how these two Greek words are used in both of these two distinct contexts?
[this relates also to the "chronology" issues]
Job's complaints are wrong all are in agreement, but again Elihu confronts Job with more than just speaking. There is still the reaping and sewing theology in Elihu's speech that was present in the first 3, but with Elihu there are additional elements. Certainly Elihu is debateable because a lot of what he says is right, but still he states some wrong things such as when he tells Job God doesn't answer such questions because men are prideful and evil.
Elihu's answer to why Job suffers is also plausible, in that he forwards the idea that God is purifying Job. Yet from the opening of the book we know that it was not God who caused Job's suffering and God's reason for allowing it was not to reprimand Job but to demonstrate the character Job possessed and to show that there really are men who will honor God even when they have nothing.
But even with all Elihu says that is true, there's the question of his place to speak. Stylistically he prepares the reader for God's answer through coming closer to a proper theology but in the frame of the book he speaks when only God can speak, and he does so to defend God primarily.
Ultimately, we're left with ambiguity regarding Elihu because his statements are not addressed in any way and how we take that depends on what we see in his speech. To those who see Elihu's arrogance the silence is a reprimand, to those who see Elihu's majestic view of God the silence is agreement.
It seems to me both views have merit and the ambiguity serves to make Elihu an important case study.
Elihu's answer to why Job suffers is also plausible, in that he forwards the idea that God is purifying Job. Yet from the opening of the book we know that it was not God who caused Job's suffering and God's reason for allowing it was not to reprimand Job but to demonstrate the character Job possessed and to show that there really are men who will honor God even when they have nothing.
But even with all Elihu says that is true, there's the question of his place to speak. Stylistically he prepares the reader for God's answer through coming closer to a proper theology but in the frame of the book he speaks when only God can speak, and he does so to defend God primarily.
Ultimately, we're left with ambiguity regarding Elihu because his statements are not addressed in any way and how we take that depends on what we see in his speech. To those who see Elihu's arrogance the silence is a reprimand, to those who see Elihu's majestic view of God the silence is agreement.
It seems to me both views have merit and the ambiguity serves to make Elihu an important case study.
E
It actually does.
According to you then all have not sinned?
Romans 3:23 says, “All have sinned and fall short of the glory of God.”
WOW!!
According to you then all have not sinned?
Romans 3:23 says, “All have sinned and fall short of the glory of God.”
WOW!!
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Amazing that a question a child can understand is "jargon."
It's quite clear you're filled with pride and no matter what Scripture says on the matter just want to feel special, so you cling to the contradiction and even forward it as a false humility.
The only spirit you seem to be led by is your own.
It's quite clear you're filled with pride and no matter what Scripture says on the matter just want to feel special, so you cling to the contradiction and even forward it as a false humility.
The only spirit you seem to be led by is your own.
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