Not By Works

[dcontroversal]

What is the difference? Between that law you speak of and the commandments Jesus said to keep if I love him?

Are the works spoken of in the law? Part of the law? Or part of the commands?
I asked what are works and didn't quite understand still. I did look for an answer abroad.
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What is the biblical meaning of work?

• The biblical theology of work is that work was designed by God as man’s earthly occupation. It is the means by which we sustain life and make discoveries about God’s world. We were created in God’s image (Genesis 1:27), and God works ( Psalm 19 :1; John 5:19).

Reference
www.gotquestions.org/theology-of-work.html
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Jesus was born, lived and died under the law which ratified the NEW COVENANT of Grace....his words must be viewed under this banner!

 

[Infinite_Ark]

Jesus was born, lived and died under the law which ratified the NEW COVENANT of Grace....his words must be viewed under this banner!

I don't know what you mean.
Didn't Jesus talk about keeping his commands while teaching the new covenant?

 

[OIC1965]

Is there a part of the bible where Jesus said the law disappears after he ascends?

It does not disappear, but those who are in Christ are not justified by the Law, for the Law is only the knowledge of sin that drives us to Christ for justification, redemption, and reconciliation with God.

 

[OIC1965]

I don't know what you mean.
Didn't Jesus talk about keeping his commands while teaching the new covenant?

It means that since we could not fulfill the Law, Jesus fulfilled it for us. And the righteousness of the Law is also fulfilled in us when we walk in the Spirit, not the flesh.

 

[OIC1965]

Is there any part of the bible that would lead someone to think they can work out their own saving?

Philippians says to work out your own salvation with fear and trembling. That is not working out your own saving. Saving is a verb, something we do. Salvation is a noun, something we have received. We do not "do" our salvation, we receive our salvation by Grace. Work out your own salvation is referring to sanctification where we work out (externalize) what God worked in internally. In other words, we fulfill the purpose and intent of what God saved us for, by the Grace of God. Salvation is free for us, but it has a purpose that God desires to fulfill. That we may be unto the praise of His Glory who trusted in Christ. (Ephesians 1:11)

 

[EleventhHour]

It does not disappear, but those who are in Christ are not justified by the Law, for the Law is only the knowledge of sin that drives us to Christ for justification, redemption, and reconciliation with God.

I agree but the Gentiles were not under the law so we must also remember....

Indeed, when Gentiles, who do not have the Law, do by nature what the Law requires, they are a law to themselves, even though they do not have the Law,
Romans 2:15

The conscience of man also bear's witness to the man himself.

 

[OIC1965]

I don't know what you mean.
Didn't Jesus talk about keeping his commands while teaching the new covenant?

Yes, if you love me, he said, keep my commandments. Commandment keeping is the fruit of love which is poured into us by the Spirit of Grace when we received the gift of eternal life.

 

[OIC1965]

I agree but the Gentiles were not under the law so we must also remember....

Indeed, when Gentiles, who do not have the Law, do by nature what the Law requires, they are a law to themselves, even though they do not have the Law,
Romans 2:15

The conscience of man also bear's witness to the man himself.

Yes, the Gentiles had the Law written upon their hearts. But this passage you quoted does not mean that the Gentiles ever satisfactorily kept the Law. They did what the Law required in some particulars, not all, for no one but Jesus kept the Law perfectly. All have sinned and come short of the glory of God, therefore all who are not in Christ are under the condemnation of the Law. The law requires perfection But now, there is no condemnation to those who are in Christ Jesus, for Christ is the end (goal, intent) of the Law for everyone who believes.

Our part is not keeping the external commands of the Law, that is not enough. We are to walk after the Spirit, and in this way the righteousness of the Law is fulfilled in us. In this way, we cleanse the inside of the cup, not just the outside. The Law cannot save, it can only point to a Saviour.

 

[EleventhHour]

Yes, the Gentiles had the Law written upon their hearts. But this passage you quoted does not mean that the Gentiles ever satisfactorily kept the Law. They did what the Law required in some cases, but no one but Jesus kept the Law perfectly. All have sinned and come short of the glory of God, therefore all who are not in Christ are under the condemnation of the Law. But now, there is no condemnation to those who are in Christ Jesus, for Christ is the end (goal, intent) of the Law for everyone who believes.

I agree, I did not state that they were able to keep the law written on their hearts........ only to point out is was not the 613 in the OT.

Not to be argumentative but I do not see "goal" in that verse?

The law has ended... we are under grace which is sufficient to teaching us that, denying ungodliness and worldly lusts, we should live soberly, righteously, and godly in the present age,

 

[stonesoffire]

I don't know what you mean.
Didn't Jesus talk about keeping his commands while teaching the new covenant?

Notice the word is “keep” not do?

 

[eternally-gratefull]

I don't know what you mean.
Didn't Jesus talk about keeping his commands while teaching the new covenant?

The law was a schoolmaster

is it still leading you to Christ, or have you found him

 

[EleventhHour]

Yes, the Gentiles had the Law written upon their hearts. But this passage you quoted does not mean that the Gentiles ever satisfactorily kept the Law. They did what the Law required in some particulars, not all, for no one but Jesus kept the Law perfectly. All have sinned and come short of the glory of God, therefore all who are not in Christ are under the condemnation of the Law. The law requires perfection But now, there is no condemnation to those who are in Christ Jesus, for Christ is the end (goal, intent) of the Law for everyone who believes.

Our part is not keeping the external commands of the Law, that is not enough. We are to walk after the Spirit, and in this way the righteousness of the Law is fulfilled in us. In this way, we cleanse the inside of the cup, not just the outside. The Law cannot save, it can only point to a Saviour.

Also upon rereading rhis would you agree that sanctification is also a position we are placed in?

I could be reading it wrong, but you seem to imply that "the walk after the Spirit" is what fulfills righteousness?

Is righteousness not imputed to the believer because Jesus alone is righteous?

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Yes, if you love me, he said, keep my commandments. Commandment keeping is the fruit of love which is poured into us by the Spirit of Grace when we received the gift of eternal life.

Amen the law of love

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Philippians says to work out your own salvation with fear and trembling. That is not working out your own saving. Saving is a verb, something we do. Salvation is a noun, something we have received. We do not "do" our salvation, we receive our salvation by Grace. Work out your own salvation is referring to sanctification where we work out (externalize) what God worked in internally. In other words, we fulfill the purpose and intent of what God saved us for, by the Grace of God. Salvation is free for us, but it has a purpose that God desires to fulfill. That we may be unto the praise of His Glory who trusted in Christ. (Ephesians 1:11)

Amen work out what you already have

 

[stonesoffire]

Keep:

G5083


τηρέω


tēreō


tay-reh'-o


From τηρός teros (a watch; perhaps akin to G2334); to guard (from loss or injury, properly by keeping the eye upon; and thus differing from G5442, which is properly to prevent escaping; and from G2892, which implies a fortress or full military lines of apparatus), that is, to note (a prophecy; figuratively to fulfil a command); by implication to detain (in custody; figuratively to maintain); by extension to withhold (for personal ends; figuratively to keep unmarried): - hold fast, keep (-er), (ob-, pre-, re) serve, watch.


Total KJV occurrences: 75

Guard your heart.

1Jn 3:1 Behold, what manner of love the Father hath bestowed upon us, that we should be called the sons of God: therefore the world knoweth us not, because it knew him not.


1Jn 3:2 Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is.


1Jn 3:3 And every man that hath this hope in him purifieth himself, even as he is pure.

Keeping our identity is higher than doing (by rote without Holy Spirits regeneration) the law.

Live a life of repentance.

 

[EleventhHour]

I don't know what you mean.
Didn't Jesus talk about keeping his commands while teaching the new covenant?

Jesus said..
If you love Me keep my commands.

Jesus is the focus.

He is first calling us to love Him and because we do we can love others.

Yet remember Jesus first loves us...
so He is the source of that love.

 

[EleventhHour]

Jesus was born, lived and died under the law which ratified the NEW COVENANT of Grace....his words must be viewed under this banner!

rat·i·fy·ing.
to confirm by expressing consent, approval, or formal sanction:

I looked up "ratified"...to get a clear sense of the word for myself.

Puts it all in context. Amen

 

[OIC1965]

Also upon rereading rhis would you agree that sanctification is also a position we are placed in?

I could be reading it wrong, but you seem to imply that "the walk after the Spirit" is what fulfills righteousness?

Is righteousness not imputed to the believer because Jesus alone is righteous?

Good question. Here is the short answer. Righteousness is imputed. Romans 4:22-24. It is also imparted. Romans 8:4. Romans 8:4 is talking about the fulfillment of the righteousness of the Law. The fulfillment of the righteousness of the Law is LOVE Romans 13:10

 

[EleventhHour]

Good question. Here is the short answer. Righteousness is imputed. Romans 4:22-24. It is also imparted. Romans 8:4. Romans 8:4 is talking about the fulfillment of the righteousness of the Law. The fulfillment of the righteousness of the Law is LOVE Romans 13:10

Interesting ..... I feel like you answered and unanswered at the same time.

I will examine those scriptures.

 

[OIC1965]

Interesting ..... I feel like you answered and unanswered at the same time.

I will examine those scriptures.

I wasn't sure what we were disagreeing on, so I went back to review the post you are asking about. What happened is that I thought I was answering Infinite Ark and didn't realize that I was answering you. So I was answering according to his arguments. What I said was true, but it was unrelated to your posts. It was a continuation of things that I was saying to Infinite Ark.. If you read the other things I said to Infinite Ark, you can see where I was going.