What About Saved by Grace? Update: Please Read.

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throughfaith

Well-known member
Aug 4, 2020
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#41
8For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
9Not of works, lest any man should boast.
10For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.
How are we saved ? by Grace .
How ? through Faith .
Is it of ourselves ? No its a gift of God .
Is it by works / good deeds / baptism / ect ? No lest anyman should boast .

10For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.
'Should 'not must or else .
 

soggykitten

Well-known member
Jul 3, 2020
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#42

throughfaith

Well-known member
Aug 4, 2020
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#43
Jesus' first words were the same as John's "repent for the kingdom of heaven is at hand".
repentance is the first thing and also a continual practice we should keep.
Romans 12.2 is a better answer .
 

Acts2

New member
Aug 11, 2020
9
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#44
Of course, saving faith in Christ includes obedience to His gospel and application of His gospel to our lives.
The Gospel of Jesus is his death, burial, resurrection. Unfortunately many are in rebellion, having rejected the application of the gospel.

Jesus said to Nicodemus in John 3:5 "...Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God."

After having received the keys to the kingdom, Peter in Acts chapter two gives the command to obey the gospel.

Acts 2:38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

The Gospel of Jesus is his death, burial, resurrection. Peter said to:

1. Repent = Death (except ye repent, ye shall all likewise perish. - Luke 13:5)
2. Baptized = Burial (buried with him by baptism into death - Rom. 6:4)
3. Holy Ghost = Resurrection

1 Samuel 15:22-23 "...Hath the LORD as great delight in burnt offerings and sacrifices, as in obeying the voice of the LORD? Behold, to obey is better than sacrifice, and to hearken than the fat of rams. For rebellion is as the sin of witchcraft, and stubbornness is as iniquity and idolatry..."

John 3:5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.

Salvation comes only through repentance from sin and faith in Jesus Christ. Repentance and faith will lead to water baptism in the name of Jesus (birth of water) and to the baptism of the Spirit (birth of the Spirit).
 

throughfaith

Well-known member
Aug 4, 2020
10,467
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#45
The Gospel of Jesus is his death, burial, resurrection. Unfortunately many are in rebellion, having rejected the application of the gospel.

Jesus said to Nicodemus in John 3:5 "...Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God."

After having received the keys to the kingdom, Peter in Acts chapter two gives the command to obey the gospel.

Acts 2:38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

The Gospel of Jesus is his death, burial, resurrection. Peter said to:

1. Repent = Death (except ye repent, ye shall all likewise perish. - Luke 13:5)
2. Baptized = Burial (buried with him by baptism into death - Rom. 6:4)
3. Holy Ghost = Resurrection

1 Samuel 15:22-23 "...Hath the LORD as great delight in burnt offerings and sacrifices, as in obeying the voice of the LORD? Behold, to obey is better than sacrifice, and to hearken than the fat of rams. For rebellion is as the sin of witchcraft, and stubbornness is as iniquity and idolatry..."

John 3:5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.

Salvation comes only through repentance from sin and faith in Jesus Christ. Repentance and faith will lead to water baptism in the name of Jesus (birth of water) and to the baptism of the Spirit (birth of the Spirit).
Still in Acts ?
 

mailmandan

Senior Member
Apr 7, 2014
25,475
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58
#46
The Gospel of Jesus is his death, burial, resurrection.
Amen! The gospel is the "good news" of the death, burial and resurrection of Christ (1 Corinthians 15:1-4) and is the power of God unto salvation to everyone that BELIEVES.. (Romans 1:16) To "believe" the gospel is to trust in the death, burial and resurrection of Christ as the ALL-sufficient means of our salvation.

Unfortunately many are in rebellion, having rejected the application of the gospel.
Unfortunately many are in rebellion, having refused to believe the gospel. (2 Corinthians 4:3,4) The gospel is a message of grace that is received through faith. The gospel is not a set of rituals to perform, a code of laws to be obeyed or a check list of good works (including water baptism) to accomplish as a prerequisite for salvation.

Jesus said to Nicodemus in John 3:5 "...Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God."

After having received the keys to the kingdom, Peter in Acts chapter two gives the command to obey the gospel.

Acts 2:38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

The Gospel of Jesus is his death, burial, resurrection. Peter said to:

1. Repent = Death (except ye repent, ye shall all likewise perish. - Luke 13:5)
2. Baptized = Burial (buried with him by baptism into death - Rom. 6:4)
3. Holy Ghost = Resurrection

1 Samuel 15:22-23 "...Hath the LORD as great delight in burnt offerings and sacrifices, as in obeying the voice of the LORD? Behold, to obey is better than sacrifice, and to hearken than the fat of rams. For rebellion is as the sin of witchcraft, and stubbornness is as iniquity and idolatry..."

John 3:5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.

Salvation comes only through repentance from sin and faith in Jesus Christ. Repentance and faith will lead to water baptism in the name of Jesus (birth of water) and to the baptism of the Spirit (birth of the Spirit).
It sounds to me like you are thoroughly indoctrinated into church of Christ (Campbellism) theology and may be unteachable. :(

See post #51 from the link to your thread "What About Saved by Grace" below:

https://christianchat.com/bible-discussion-forum/what-about-saved-by-grace.194755/page-3
 

Blik

Senior Member
Dec 6, 2016
7,312
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#47
It sounds to me like you are thoroughly indoctrinated into church of Christ (Campbellism) theology and may be unteachable. :(
Have you decided to take the work of the Lord on yourself and do the judging of Acts 2?
 

mailmandan

Senior Member
Apr 7, 2014
25,475
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58
#48
Have you decided to take the work of the Lord on yourself and do the judging of Acts 2?
I at one time had temporarily attended the church of Christ several years ago, so I understand how deeply indoctrinated many of them become. Notice how I said, "it sounds to me like" and "may be unteachable." You call that judging? Since Acts2 refuses to answer my questions and continues with the same repeated rhetoric, what am I supposed to believe? Explain it to me Lucy? ;)
 

UnoiAmarah

Junior Member
Jul 28, 2017
907
141
43
#49
Jesus said to Nicodemus in John 3:5 "...Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God."

Except a man be perfect, he cannot say "once you have seen the kingdom of one invisible God, you have seen the invisible kingdom of every God."
 
L

lenna

Guest
#51
Could you elaborate on that?

from the koran maybe? sounds like something from some mid-eastern philosopher not from the Bible for sure

fasten your seatbelt in case the elaboration presents itself
 

Grandpa

Senior Member
Jun 24, 2011
11,551
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#52
The tragedy is "adding" water baptism and other works to the plan of salvation and therefore perverting the gospel. The requirement to repent is not eliminated from the plan of salvation. When only belief/faith is mentioned in connection with salvation, repent is implied or assumed. When only repent is mentioned in connection with salvation, belief/faith is implied or assumed. Where you have one, you have the other. If we truly repented, then we have placed our faith in Christ for salvation. If we have placed our faith in Christ for salvation, then we already repented in the process of changing our mind and choosing to place our faith in Christ for salvation. Repent (change your mind) -- "new direction of that change of mind" -- faith in Jesus Christ for salvation. *Two sides to the same coin.*

Acts 20:21 - testifying both to Jews and to Greeks of repentance toward God and of faith in our Lord Jesus Christ. *Notice the order.
I do think that repentance and faith cause a person to want to be baptized in water.

But I don't think this baptism by people imparts anything, especially something supernatural, to anyone.

I think this baptism by people in front of other people is a declaration for Christ. Like where the Lord said if you deny me before men I will deny you before my Father but whoever confesses me before men I will confess before my Father.


I think when people try to make it seem as if something supernatural is imparted by water what is REALLY being referred to is being washed by the Water of the Word. And this is, perhaps, when a person is born of water. I can't say definitively. But it seems closer to the truth than to say that baptism in water by people imparts supernatural gifts of God. To me...
 

Blik

Senior Member
Dec 6, 2016
7,312
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#53
I at one time had temporarily attended the church of Christ several years ago, so I understand how deeply indoctrinated many of them become. Notice how I said, "it sounds to me like" and "may be unteachable." You call that judging? Since Acts2 refuses to answer my questions and continues with the same repeated rhetoric, what am I supposed to believe? Explain it to me Lucy? ;)
Scripture tells us you are to let Acts2 believe as she does without judging her, you are tell what you believe about scripture.
 

Blik

Senior Member
Dec 6, 2016
7,312
2,428
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#54
I do think that repentance and faith cause a person to want to be baptized in water.

But I don't think this baptism by people imparts anything, especially something supernatural, to anyone.

I think this baptism by people in front of other people is a declaration for Christ. Like where the Lord said if you deny me before men I will deny you before my Father but whoever confesses me before men I will confess before my Father.


I think when people try to make it seem as if something supernatural is imparted by water what is REALLY being referred to is being washed by the Water of the Word. And this is, perhaps, when a person is born of water. I can't say definitively. But it seems closer to the truth than to say that baptism in water by people imparts supernatural gifts of God. To me...
I feel certain that something supernatural does happen when we are physically baptized in spirit and truth.

1 Peter 3: 21 and this water symbolizes baptism that now saves you also—not the removal of dirt from the body but the pledge of a clear conscience toward God. It saves you by the resurrection of Jesus Christ,

John the Baptist said in John 1: 33 And I myself did not know him, but the one who sent me to baptize with water told me, ‘The man on whom you see the Spirit come down and remain is the one who will baptize with the Holy Spirit.’
 

Grandpa

Senior Member
Jun 24, 2011
11,551
3,190
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#55
I feel certain that something supernatural does happen when we are physically baptized in spirit and truth.

1 Peter 3: 21 and this water symbolizes baptism that now saves you also—not the removal of dirt from the body but the pledge of a clear conscience toward God. It saves you by the resurrection of Jesus Christ,

John the Baptist said in John 1: 33 And I myself did not know him, but the one who sent me to baptize with water told me, ‘The man on whom you see the Spirit come down and remain is the one who will baptize with the Holy Spirit.’
Yes. John 1:33 is pretty much what I was getting at. It is the Lord Jesus who baptizes with the Holy Spirit.
 

ForestGreenCook

Well-known member
Jul 8, 2018
8,441
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#56
Ephesians 2:8-9 proclaims, “For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: not of works, lest any man should boast.” This means salvation is a free gift from God. The death, burial, and resurrection of Jesus Christ made this free gift of salvation available, and the only way to receive salvation is to have faith in Jesus and in the sufficiency of His sacrifice. Of course, saving faith in Christ includes obedience to His gospel and application of His gospel to our lives. I must stress that salvation can come only through faith, and that faith must be in the Lord Jesus Christ. Jesus asserted, “I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me” (John 14:6). He also said we must believe He is God manifested in the flesh as our Savior. “I said therefore unto you, that ye shall die in your sins: for if ye believe not that I am he, ye shall die in your sins” (John 8:24).

In Acts 1 Jesus gave His disciples last minute instructions just before His ascension into heaven. He told them to go to Jerusalem and wait for the promise of the Father, namely the baptism of the Holy Ghost. About 120 disciples obeyed Him and gathered in an upper room in Jerusalem.

Acts 2 records that on the Jewish feast day of Pentecost the promised Spirit baptism came. Peter seized the opportunity to preach to the crowd. Standing with the other eleven apostles, he began to explain what had just happened and proceeded to preach about Jesus whom they had crucified, was both Lord and Christ (Messiah).

When the crowd heard this, they began to feel guilt and conviction of sin, for undoubtedly many of them had demanded the crucifixion of Jesus less than two months before. Consequently, they asked Peter and the rest of the apostles, “Men and brethren, what shall we do?” (Acts 2:37). As the context shows, they were asking, “How can we receive forgiveness for our sin? How can we correct the wrong we have done in rejecting Jesus and crucifying Him? How can we now accept Jesus as Lord and Messiah?” The essence of salvation is receiving forgiveness of sins through faith in Christ, so their question simply meant, “What must we do to be saved?”

Peter gave, with the support of all the apostles: “Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost” (Acts 2:38).

We find only one other situation in the New Testament church that directly poses the question, “What must I do to be saved?”

Acts 16 records that the magistrates of Philippi, a city in Macedonia, jailed Paul and Silas for preaching the gospel. At midnight Paul and Silas prayed and sang praises to God. Suddenly, an earthquake shook the prison and opened the doors. When the jailer awoke and realized what had happened he assumed the prisoners had all escaped. Apparently faced with the penalty of death for allowing this to happen, he decided to commit suicide. As he drew his sword, Paul shouted, “Do thyself no harm: for we are all here” (Acts 16:28). When he heard this, the jailer called for a light and went to investigate for himself. He came trembling and fell down at the feet of Paul and Silas, realizing that they were the ones responsible for the miraculous earthquake. He brought them out and asked, “Sirs, what must I do to be saved?”

They replied, “Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved, and thy house” (Acts 16:30-31). The Bible further records, “And they spake unto him the word of the Lord, and to all that were in his house. And he took them the same hour of the night, and washed their stripes; and was baptized, he and all his, straightway. And when he had brought them into his house, he set meat before them, and rejoiced, believing in God with all his house” (Acts 16:32-34).

Each gives the same answer in different terms, from different viewpoints, and in different situations, but it is the same answer nonetheless. When Jesus spoke to Nicodemus He was not answering a direct question about salvation. Instead, He was describing God’s plan of salvation for the future New Testament church that was about to come into existence.

John 3:5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.

Salvation comes only through repentance from sin and faith in Jesus Christ. Repentance and faith will lead to water baptism in the name of Jesus (birth of water) and to the baptism of the Spirit (birth of the Spirit).
You are relentless in trying to give the natural man the ability to discern the things of the Spirit. There is a deliverance for the regenerated in repenting of breaking a spiritual law, and of professing their spiritual faith in Christ Jesus, This deliverance has nothing to do with their eternal deliverance, for they already have eternal deliverance. This is just their obedience to God, in their walk of faith.

The natural man, being dead spiritually, will not repent of breaking a spiritual law that he cannot discern. The natural man only has faith in man, and what he accomplishes.

John 3:5, in speaking of "the kingdom of God" is referencing the church that Christ set up. along with many more names that the church is called by in the scriptures, not eternal heaven

These men in Acts 2:38, and Acts 16:32-34, had already been regenerated, witnessed by their response.

Compare the men's response in Acts 2 & 16 to the response of the unregenerate men that stoned Steven to death for preaching the same sermon. The men in Acts were "pricked" in their hearts (the soft hearts given in regeneration) and the unregenerate men that stoned Stephen, for preaching the same sermon as Peter's, were "cut to their hearts of stone"
 

ForestGreenCook

Well-known member
Jul 8, 2018
8,441
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#57
Yes; we are saved by God's sovereign grace, through faith, but not our faith, but the faith of Jesus Christ Gal 2:16. It could not have been by the faith of the natural man, because he only has the faith of man, and what he accomplishes, not spiritual faith, that is a fruit of the Spirit, Gal 2:16, which is given in regeneration. If it was by man's faith, it would give him something to boast about.
 

Nehemiah6

Senior Member
Jul 18, 2017
26,074
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#58
False . Acts 2.38 is not the plan of salvation for all ages. Read the context and who Peter is speaking to . Its not the same in Acts 16.30 . its not the same in ANY of the verses you quoted . Thats why you finish with a false message that is perpetuated in every false Church .
FALSE. Your accusation about a false message in the OP is itself false. And then to go ahead is say that every church which preaches this is *false* means that you are A WOLF IN SHEEP'S CLOTHING. Therefore your screen name should be "throughunbelief".
 

Nehemiah6

Senior Member
Jul 18, 2017
26,074
13,776
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#59
You are relentless in trying to give the natural man the ability to discern the things of the Spirit.
The "natural man" -- the unsaved sinner -- is perfectly capable of comprehending the plain Gospel. If it were not so, then Christ would not have said this: And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the Gospel to every creature. He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned. (Mark 16:15,16)

That command pre-supposes that all men can understand the plain Gospel -- that Christ died for their sins and rose again for their justification. Those men gathered in Jerusalem on the day of Pentecost were all natural men -- all sinners in need of the Savior.

But Peter preached the Gospel to them and told them that they would receive the Holy Ghost only after they repented and believed on the Lord Jesus Christ. And it is only AFTER that that men have the indwelling Holy Spirit to understand all things spiritual.

Therefore you are misunderstanding and misapplying what is said in 1 Corinthians 2 about the natural man and the spiritual man. You have refused to give up your false belief in the face of probably hundreds of rebuttals.
 

SoulWeaver

Senior Member
Oct 25, 2014
4,889
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#60
I do think that repentance and faith cause a person to want to be baptized in water.

But I don't think this baptism by people imparts anything, especially something supernatural, to anyone.

I think this baptism by people in front of other people is a declaration for Christ. Like where the Lord said if you deny me before men I will deny you before my Father but whoever confesses me before men I will confess before my Father.


I think when people try to make it seem as if something supernatural is imparted by water what is REALLY being referred to is being washed by the Water of the Word. And this is, perhaps, when a person is born of water. I can't say definitively. But it seems closer to the truth than to say that baptism in water by people imparts supernatural gifts of God. To me...
A person being born of water is person being born by their mother (water breaking aka physical birth).
I very much agree with your opinion that water baptism is largely an act of outer confession of our faith before men.