ok what did the images of those idols look like to the benjamites what would be the images that people worship today that could turn them gay? was it like porn or something, or were they images of animals or monsters...? or symbols? or just psychedilic wallpaper or paisley patterns (as Ive heard in some christian circles, is of the devil)...or would it just be any image you saw on tv. Im thinking infomercials. an abomination.
Talking about Homosexuality and all the other “stuff”
- Thread starter SarahUmbreon
- Start date
-
Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.
If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!
To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.
You raise some good questions. The truth is that there are many sorts of various images of idols that have been used as "props" and so-called "art" in television series, movies, and even cartoons. Occult symbols are also used in addition to the images of idols. Then, along with those things, there are scripted blasphemies against God, and it's not difficult to miss how many times that blaspheme the holy name of The Lord Jesus Christ, as well as use His name as a curse word, there are countless scripted themes pertaining to subjects and things of the Occult. A few evil examples are necromancy, voodoo, Yoga, martial arts, vampires, seances, foretune tellers, ouija board, witches/witchcraft, psychics, human sacrifices, and so forth, not excluding the teaching of other religions including the Mayans, Confucius, Buddhism, Hinduism, and so forth.
Subliminal images, including subliminals of pornographic images are also used, and have been heavily used in various ads, such as ciggarette ads, Disney movies/cartoons, and so forth, as well as in the pictures and so-called artwork of false prophet groups' literature, such as the Seventh Day Adventists and Watchtower Society of Jehovah's Witnesses.
For people that are unaware of what images of idols are, there are countless evil examples of images of idols on the Internet. The images of idols have been dug up out of the ground by Archaeologists that are members of the Illuminati, who own and control the television, movies, music, and video game industries.
As time permits over the next week, we can delve into how these things have been accomplished, and work to educate as many as will listen and are willing to learn with the real time evil examples as listed above, and break down how these things are End Times Deceptions, with the sharing and discussion of the Prophetic passages of The Holy Bible, as we consider the reality of the great falling away, as so many people, by the millions, have been deceived by various false prophets, false Christs, etc., and/or into witchcraft, Hinduism, Buddhism, etc., and even how many in the Churches are being deceived into embracing them via the lying deception that they "worship the same god", as this is nothing more than their being deceived into bending the knee to Baal.
I should also mention that yes, Occult symbolism can also be found in some wall paper, as well as some curtains. I have extensive notes on these things, as I had concluded an extensive research into these issues, and with those notes, we can unpack this topic and cites scores of countless examples, even how these deceptions began with the invention of carnivals, movies and television. What we will ultimately discover is that the vast majority of the homosexual community are involved, or have been involved in one or more things related to the Occult, and how they were indoctrinated by those things from infancy, because so many people would not hear, and listen to the godly counsel of Pastors that had warned against television, and so forth, as being tools of the Devil. With that, we can also cite examples of how Christians and Pastors have been slandered, mocked, and ridiculed in various scripted television shows and movies. And then, provided that as many that will quickly catch on, we can then go into how paedophilia in being "normalized", as homosexuality, transgenderism, etc., have been "normalized", as Society is grromed to call good evil, and evil good.
Later, in the next post, I will gather some links relating to the images of idols, etc., and begin this process for anyone who is interested.
Subliminal images, including subliminals of pornographic images are also used, and have been heavily used in various ads, such as ciggarette ads, Disney movies/cartoons, and so forth, as well as in the pictures and so-called artwork of false prophet groups' literature, such as the Seventh Day Adventists and Watchtower Society of Jehovah's Witnesses.
For people that are unaware of what images of idols are, there are countless evil examples of images of idols on the Internet. The images of idols have been dug up out of the ground by Archaeologists that are members of the Illuminati, who own and control the television, movies, music, and video game industries.
As time permits over the next week, we can delve into how these things have been accomplished, and work to educate as many as will listen and are willing to learn with the real time evil examples as listed above, and break down how these things are End Times Deceptions, with the sharing and discussion of the Prophetic passages of The Holy Bible, as we consider the reality of the great falling away, as so many people, by the millions, have been deceived by various false prophets, false Christs, etc., and/or into witchcraft, Hinduism, Buddhism, etc., and even how many in the Churches are being deceived into embracing them via the lying deception that they "worship the same god", as this is nothing more than their being deceived into bending the knee to Baal.
I should also mention that yes, Occult symbolism can also be found in some wall paper, as well as some curtains. I have extensive notes on these things, as I had concluded an extensive research into these issues, and with those notes, we can unpack this topic and cites scores of countless examples, even how these deceptions began with the invention of carnivals, movies and television. What we will ultimately discover is that the vast majority of the homosexual community are involved, or have been involved in one or more things related to the Occult, and how they were indoctrinated by those things from infancy, because so many people would not hear, and listen to the godly counsel of Pastors that had warned against television, and so forth, as being tools of the Devil. With that, we can also cite examples of how Christians and Pastors have been slandered, mocked, and ridiculed in various scripted television shows and movies. And then, provided that as many that will quickly catch on, we can then go into how paedophilia in being "normalized", as homosexuality, transgenderism, etc., have been "normalized", as Society is grromed to call good evil, and evil good.
Later, in the next post, I will gather some links relating to the images of idols, etc., and begin this process for anyone who is interested.
maybe do it in a separate thread.
I was reading they worshiped other gods like Baal, Baalim, Belrith...Ashteroth
when I was delivered from evil I did renounce a lot of stuff associated with the occult and a lot of symbolism and imagery is embedded in what others might see as ordinary objects used in decor eg owls...there was a whole list.
pertaining to this thread the reason why im wary of things like pokemon (short for pocket monsters) is people being naively unaware of the demonic behind such images. when someone is quite obsessed with ONE thing like I dont know ...star wars, fantasy, cartoons, they want to buy up all the images of that (this was how I used to be with a comic like Garfield) not really aware at the time cos I was so young that while its funny and enjoyable it could be come obssesive to the point of unhealthy, after all hes a poster cat if you will of greed, laziness and self interest. Not saying Garfield the cat is demonic in of itself, but once you become a Christian, paganism or heathen practices (as I would term it) loses its appeal.
'rainbow pride' flags might be one thing that really turn people off because a true, genuine rainbow is not in the order that those flags colours are.
I was reading they worshiped other gods like Baal, Baalim, Belrith...Ashteroth
when I was delivered from evil I did renounce a lot of stuff associated with the occult and a lot of symbolism and imagery is embedded in what others might see as ordinary objects used in decor eg owls...there was a whole list.
pertaining to this thread the reason why im wary of things like pokemon (short for pocket monsters) is people being naively unaware of the demonic behind such images. when someone is quite obsessed with ONE thing like I dont know ...star wars, fantasy, cartoons, they want to buy up all the images of that (this was how I used to be with a comic like Garfield) not really aware at the time cos I was so young that while its funny and enjoyable it could be come obssesive to the point of unhealthy, after all hes a poster cat if you will of greed, laziness and self interest. Not saying Garfield the cat is demonic in of itself, but once you become a Christian, paganism or heathen practices (as I would term it) loses its appeal.
'rainbow pride' flags might be one thing that really turn people off because a true, genuine rainbow is not in the order that those flags colours are.
-
1
-
1
- Show all
I read both of your posts. .... I'm trying to get my bearings together after a full day so as to give you as much as a thorough response per "owls" as I possible can. First of all, thank you for sharing a bit of testimony, and it is a joy to read. The thing about the owl is that separate from the creation that God had made, we know that in Ancient Egypt, they worshipped many various idols, and this included the image of the idol of the owl. We know that in the Ten Commandments, and other places throughout the Bible, that God forbids the making of any images of anything in heaven, as well as things on the earth. But in Ancient Egypt, just as it still is today, the owl one of the images of idols that represented Molech. In 1Corinthians 10:20-22, we learn from Apostle Paul that the sacrifices made to these things are actually sacrifices to devils. Molech is another name for Satan, just as Baal, and many other names are, not to mention that many other idols were dedicated to other fallen angels that followed after Lucifer/Satan. That is why it is today that we see so many images of the owl, be they plastic, concrete, gold, or whatever material.
The "owl" is also used at the Bohemian Grove. There is also an image of an owl above the entrance of the Vatican. In both instances, they represent Molech, and so it is no surprise that just before the alleged C-19 outbreak, that the Vatican blasphemously set up the image of the idol of Molech. The fact that the owl, along with so many other images of idols are repitiously used in all aspects of Media, is for the obvious grooming - brainwashing - conditioning - deceiving of the masses. Molech was the idol of which children were made to pass through the fire as sacrifice to the Devil.
During the Great Tribulation, there will be all manner of evils, including human sacrifice, and that is a heavy topic in of itself, but in various documentaries on P.B.S., when teaching about the ancient Mayans, which is done to deceive the masses, as Gentiles commanded to abstain from polutions of idols per Acts 15:19-29, they talked about bring back human sacrifices so as to "respect" the people's right to "freedom of religion", of which is a prime example of their hi-jacking the Bill of Rights in the U.S. Constitution to propagate these things of the Devil. I also have seen where in one children's show on P.B.S. where they featured the owl on curtains, along with other symbols of the Occult detailed in or on other things. I can go on about this, but the point in bring this up is to make people aware of the fact that they and their children are being deceived, and it is fitting that this is done, even on this thread because it directly pertains to what I term as the queering of the nations, as I mentioned before that they used all forms of Media so-called entertainment to manipulate the minds and to feed the masses with doctrines of devils, using the images of idols, hence is why we see so many that have abandoned the faith and have converted to other antichrist religions, including witchcraft, which in turn is fulfillment of the proverb quoted in 2Peter 2-3 (highlighting 2Peter 2:20-22) of the dog returning to the vomit, and the sow that was washed clean returning to the mire; the great falling away. The all has to do with the evil doctrines of Balaam and the Nicolaitans, per Revelation 2-3. The deceivers are the "brute beasts". In Revelation 18 learning about the future destruction of Mystery Babylon, there is mention of "unclean birds". So this would be a reference to one of the types of unclean birds. There is another lesson to be reminded of from Ephesians 5-6, and that our fight is not with flesh and blood, but with wicked spirits in high places. It is vital to grasp the discernment that the deceivers of Freemasonry and the Illuminati (All rooted out of the Vatican) are demon possessed, and so it makes it easier to grasp the who, why, when, where, and how they are doing these wicked things.
In this time that we have left, it is our duty to sound the warnings, and to educate as many as will hear with the hope that peradventure, God will bless them with both repentance and salvation, and this includes many in the Churches that have been turned away from the truth unto fables. I hope this helps to answer your question about the owl.
P.S. Thank you for sharing a bit of insight about Garfield. I agree. I also want to share that I love the animals, and enjoy looking at the beautiful creatures that God has made, including the owls. Owls are beautiful, but as far as having anything with an "owl" on it, no, I'm completely over and passed those types of things, as I have come to learn that "images" are no good, and understand the evil behind their production. There is no replacement for our True and Living God, and there is no substitute to enjoy the beautiful creatures that He has made.
The "owl" is also used at the Bohemian Grove. There is also an image of an owl above the entrance of the Vatican. In both instances, they represent Molech, and so it is no surprise that just before the alleged C-19 outbreak, that the Vatican blasphemously set up the image of the idol of Molech. The fact that the owl, along with so many other images of idols are repitiously used in all aspects of Media, is for the obvious grooming - brainwashing - conditioning - deceiving of the masses. Molech was the idol of which children were made to pass through the fire as sacrifice to the Devil.
During the Great Tribulation, there will be all manner of evils, including human sacrifice, and that is a heavy topic in of itself, but in various documentaries on P.B.S., when teaching about the ancient Mayans, which is done to deceive the masses, as Gentiles commanded to abstain from polutions of idols per Acts 15:19-29, they talked about bring back human sacrifices so as to "respect" the people's right to "freedom of religion", of which is a prime example of their hi-jacking the Bill of Rights in the U.S. Constitution to propagate these things of the Devil. I also have seen where in one children's show on P.B.S. where they featured the owl on curtains, along with other symbols of the Occult detailed in or on other things. I can go on about this, but the point in bring this up is to make people aware of the fact that they and their children are being deceived, and it is fitting that this is done, even on this thread because it directly pertains to what I term as the queering of the nations, as I mentioned before that they used all forms of Media so-called entertainment to manipulate the minds and to feed the masses with doctrines of devils, using the images of idols, hence is why we see so many that have abandoned the faith and have converted to other antichrist religions, including witchcraft, which in turn is fulfillment of the proverb quoted in 2Peter 2-3 (highlighting 2Peter 2:20-22) of the dog returning to the vomit, and the sow that was washed clean returning to the mire; the great falling away. The all has to do with the evil doctrines of Balaam and the Nicolaitans, per Revelation 2-3. The deceivers are the "brute beasts". In Revelation 18 learning about the future destruction of Mystery Babylon, there is mention of "unclean birds". So this would be a reference to one of the types of unclean birds. There is another lesson to be reminded of from Ephesians 5-6, and that our fight is not with flesh and blood, but with wicked spirits in high places. It is vital to grasp the discernment that the deceivers of Freemasonry and the Illuminati (All rooted out of the Vatican) are demon possessed, and so it makes it easier to grasp the who, why, when, where, and how they are doing these wicked things.
In this time that we have left, it is our duty to sound the warnings, and to educate as many as will hear with the hope that peradventure, God will bless them with both repentance and salvation, and this includes many in the Churches that have been turned away from the truth unto fables. I hope this helps to answer your question about the owl.
P.S. Thank you for sharing a bit of insight about Garfield. I agree. I also want to share that I love the animals, and enjoy looking at the beautiful creatures that God has made, including the owls. Owls are beautiful, but as far as having anything with an "owl" on it, no, I'm completely over and passed those types of things, as I have come to learn that "images" are no good, and understand the evil behind their production. There is no replacement for our True and Living God, and there is no substitute to enjoy the beautiful creatures that He has made.
Hello,
This post reminds me of some elders I used to take classes from at a former church. They told everyone in their classes that they should not have any images or anything around them resembling creatures of the night, such as bats and owls, as well as frogs (because of their use in the 10 plagues of Egypt.) Fortunately, all my posters of flies and gnats (other creatures associated with the 10 plagues) were easy to get let go of. (Sorry, just trying to insert a little humor there.)
In all seriousness, I was having a discussion with a Christian friend about this because I have several other Christian friends who like and collect various representations of frogs. My friend pointed out that if animals such as those "of the night" were to be seen as evil and banned from our homes, this would include cats, as cats are technically nocturnal creatures.
Cats have also been worshipped throughout history, seen as gods (by the Egyptians, no less,) and have been regarded as the loyal companions and assistants to witches for centuries.
However, I have also known several Christians who would probably not hesitate to resort down to fist fighting anyone who insisted their cats were instruments of the devil and tried to take them away.
I was just wondering, what are your thoughts on this?
Why are cats accepted throughout Christian culture, but not other nocturnal animals, when cats indeed have a similar, if not nearly identical history within various pagan beliefs?
-
1
- Show all
Somebody mentioned cats, so here I am!
If we need to avoid owls because they were once idolized by some culture, we must also throw out dogs.
Quote from good ole Wikipedia:
Dogs have a major religious significance among the Hindus in Nepal and some parts of India. The dogs are worshiped as a part of a five-day Tihar festival that falls roughly in November every year. In Hinduism, it is believed that the dog is a messenger of Yama, the god of death, and dogs guard the doors of Heaven.
We also gotta throw out cows. They are worshiped to this day, though I have no idea why... They have nothing at all worth worshiping. But any rancher who keeps cows must be totally evil, which means you are supporting evil when you buy a steak.
In fact we will have to throw out almost all animals and some plants. You would not BELIEVE how many things humans have decided to worship over the millennia!
If we need to avoid owls because they were once idolized by some culture, we must also throw out dogs.
Quote from good ole Wikipedia:
Dogs have a major religious significance among the Hindus in Nepal and some parts of India. The dogs are worshiped as a part of a five-day Tihar festival that falls roughly in November every year. In Hinduism, it is believed that the dog is a messenger of Yama, the god of death, and dogs guard the doors of Heaven.
We also gotta throw out cows. They are worshiped to this day, though I have no idea why... They have nothing at all worth worshiping. But any rancher who keeps cows must be totally evil, which means you are supporting evil when you buy a steak.
In fact we will have to throw out almost all animals and some plants. You would not BELIEVE how many things humans have decided to worship over the millennia!
-
2
- Show all
With reading some of these responses, it got me thinking: “Did the animals ask for this?”
Cause you know, animals just want to live life, like we do, they didn’t ask to be worshipped or given holy meaning, so I don’t think we should throw out all animals, I think that is missing the bigger picture. Animals help us SO MUCH, from rescue dogs, to therapy animals (Which I think is more for cats/dogs, but whatever, lol), to guide dogs for the blind. Animals are very helpful and for cows, pigs, chickens, etc. are food source. I think to throw out animals would be a very foolish thing to do. There are people who still hate black cats and treat them poorly, the cat didn’t want that, it was a foolish human label. That’s why it’s common to come across black cats as strays, at my old job, I found a tiny black kitten in the parking lot, probably because someone left it there. So you can have pets and admire animals, but once you put them on a pedestal and put them above God, then that is wrong. We have a pet dog, we like to joke and call her “people” cause likes chilling on the couch with us, like people. But we wouldn’t “Oh great mighty freckles, please bring us rain and salvation today!”...I think that’s a wee bit insane if I did that, LOOOOOOOOOL XD
Just leaving this as a fun fact, but Kobe Beef, considered to be a high quality beef, those cows are given alcohol and are massaged because the owners of the Cows in Japan believe in treating the cow well, gives good beef. I know it’s off topic, but I just wanted to mention it, cause it’s a really cool fun fact ^_^
Link: https://www.thedailymeal.com/eat/here-s-what-makes-kobe-beef-best-world?amp
Cause you know, animals just want to live life, like we do, they didn’t ask to be worshipped or given holy meaning, so I don’t think we should throw out all animals, I think that is missing the bigger picture. Animals help us SO MUCH, from rescue dogs, to therapy animals (Which I think is more for cats/dogs, but whatever, lol), to guide dogs for the blind. Animals are very helpful and for cows, pigs, chickens, etc. are food source. I think to throw out animals would be a very foolish thing to do. There are people who still hate black cats and treat them poorly, the cat didn’t want that, it was a foolish human label. That’s why it’s common to come across black cats as strays, at my old job, I found a tiny black kitten in the parking lot, probably because someone left it there. So you can have pets and admire animals, but once you put them on a pedestal and put them above God, then that is wrong. We have a pet dog, we like to joke and call her “people” cause likes chilling on the couch with us, like people. But we wouldn’t “Oh great mighty freckles, please bring us rain and salvation today!”...I think that’s a wee bit insane if I did that, LOOOOOOOOOL XD
Just leaving this as a fun fact, but Kobe Beef, considered to be a high quality beef, those cows are given alcohol and are massaged because the owners of the Cows in Japan believe in treating the cow well, gives good beef. I know it’s off topic, but I just wanted to mention it, cause it’s a really cool fun fact ^_^
Link: https://www.thedailymeal.com/eat/here-s-what-makes-kobe-beef-best-world?amp
Part 1 of a 2 Part Post:
I want to include @Lynx and @SarahUmbreon in this post. (This is somewhat of a long post that I have to split into two posts; I hope that you will bear with me by reading through it, as I have done my best to be as through as possible for the sake of effective communication).
First of all, it's nice to meet you. I appreciate good sense of humor. Let me begin by clarifying that I had made the distinction between images of animals to that of real animals. I would never tell people that they should get rid of their pets. But the images on the other hand, I would definetely say yes to getting rid of those. There's nothing like a good house cleaning so to be absolutely certain not to quench The Holy Spirit, and not give room to the Devil.
That said, I want to share some critical information with you, and if you have not been aware of this before, I ask that you please take time to seek The Lord and pray about these things, asking The Lord for the eyesalve of understanding to open your eyes to the deceptions of reality, and to lead you into all truth concerning these issues. Through the course of the last 20 years, I have thoroughly read the fullness of The Holy Bible, and have learned that our advanced learning can only come by trusting The Lord and reading to "hear" what He says about everything we need to know; Not only about the great importance of salvation, but the full knowledge of truth concerning what Jesus saved us from, including the deceptions and darkness of the world, along with the who, why, and where, of those that are deceiving the world, and so forth; All of which is what gives us a true Biblical World View.
For example. when I read Revelation, I asked God to teach me and to give me all understanding of what is written. I have prayerfully read through each book of The Holy Bible because I had a great hunger and thirst for the things of God, and as a result of this wonderful experience, I try my absolute best to encourage others as much as possible to do the very same, to get the most out of our personal relationship with our Lord Jesus Christ, Who is God manifested in the flesh, God the Father, and God The Holy Ghost, whom indwells us, and has sealed us unto the day of redemption.
In the meantime, I had spent many years researching the Illuminati-Freemasonry, as well as television, movies, video games, the music industry, and so forth, and have come to learn that these indeed are the deceivers that are deceiving the entire world, and are the brute beasts of Mystery Babylon performing the evil deeds of the Devil. I have seen a lot, including how they have temple of Baal established in nations world-wide, each of which is set up to control the respective Governments, and this includes The United States of America. They not only have infiltrated and control the Governments, but they literally own and control the aforemention industries, and I should also include the Mainstream News Media. The founders of the false prophet and false teacher cults were also Satanists, of this same group that is rooted out of the Roman Catholic Church, and the cults include Christian Science, Church of Scientology, Watchtower Society of Jehovah's Witnesses, Seventh Adventists, Mormons, Islam, H.W. Armstrong Church of God, The Way International, and others like them; All of which prove The Lord Jesus Christ's words in Matthew 24 that there will be many false prophets, as well as what Apostle Peter wrote in 2Peter 2-3 that there would be many false teachers.
Moreover, over the course of time, I had learned a great deal about their infiltration into the Churches. In reading Revelation 2-3, along with Kings and Chronicles, to get to the point, I had been blessed to fully grasp that these are Jezebel's servants that have been teaching and seducing The Lord Jesus Christ's servants in the Churches, just as their counter-parts had done in Ancient Israel, as they hold both the evil doctrines of Balaam and the Nicolaitans. I have seen where they have usurped postions as Pastors, Deacons, Elders, Sunday School Teachers, as well as positions of Professors in Semenaries, and positions of President of the SBC, and so forth. This is why we see so much debate, and with so many embracing other religions, including those of the false prophet cults. Furthermore, we have also seen Pope Francis, Irwin Baxter, and others blasphemously decree that "all religions worship the same god", and this an example of them deceiving the masses into bending the knee to Baal. They are the false prophets and false teachers of Baal.
I want to include @Lynx and @SarahUmbreon in this post. (This is somewhat of a long post that I have to split into two posts; I hope that you will bear with me by reading through it, as I have done my best to be as through as possible for the sake of effective communication).
First of all, it's nice to meet you. I appreciate good sense of humor. Let me begin by clarifying that I had made the distinction between images of animals to that of real animals. I would never tell people that they should get rid of their pets. But the images on the other hand, I would definetely say yes to getting rid of those. There's nothing like a good house cleaning so to be absolutely certain not to quench The Holy Spirit, and not give room to the Devil.
That said, I want to share some critical information with you, and if you have not been aware of this before, I ask that you please take time to seek The Lord and pray about these things, asking The Lord for the eyesalve of understanding to open your eyes to the deceptions of reality, and to lead you into all truth concerning these issues. Through the course of the last 20 years, I have thoroughly read the fullness of The Holy Bible, and have learned that our advanced learning can only come by trusting The Lord and reading to "hear" what He says about everything we need to know; Not only about the great importance of salvation, but the full knowledge of truth concerning what Jesus saved us from, including the deceptions and darkness of the world, along with the who, why, and where, of those that are deceiving the world, and so forth; All of which is what gives us a true Biblical World View.
For example. when I read Revelation, I asked God to teach me and to give me all understanding of what is written. I have prayerfully read through each book of The Holy Bible because I had a great hunger and thirst for the things of God, and as a result of this wonderful experience, I try my absolute best to encourage others as much as possible to do the very same, to get the most out of our personal relationship with our Lord Jesus Christ, Who is God manifested in the flesh, God the Father, and God The Holy Ghost, whom indwells us, and has sealed us unto the day of redemption.
In the meantime, I had spent many years researching the Illuminati-Freemasonry, as well as television, movies, video games, the music industry, and so forth, and have come to learn that these indeed are the deceivers that are deceiving the entire world, and are the brute beasts of Mystery Babylon performing the evil deeds of the Devil. I have seen a lot, including how they have temple of Baal established in nations world-wide, each of which is set up to control the respective Governments, and this includes The United States of America. They not only have infiltrated and control the Governments, but they literally own and control the aforemention industries, and I should also include the Mainstream News Media. The founders of the false prophet and false teacher cults were also Satanists, of this same group that is rooted out of the Roman Catholic Church, and the cults include Christian Science, Church of Scientology, Watchtower Society of Jehovah's Witnesses, Seventh Adventists, Mormons, Islam, H.W. Armstrong Church of God, The Way International, and others like them; All of which prove The Lord Jesus Christ's words in Matthew 24 that there will be many false prophets, as well as what Apostle Peter wrote in 2Peter 2-3 that there would be many false teachers.
Moreover, over the course of time, I had learned a great deal about their infiltration into the Churches. In reading Revelation 2-3, along with Kings and Chronicles, to get to the point, I had been blessed to fully grasp that these are Jezebel's servants that have been teaching and seducing The Lord Jesus Christ's servants in the Churches, just as their counter-parts had done in Ancient Israel, as they hold both the evil doctrines of Balaam and the Nicolaitans. I have seen where they have usurped postions as Pastors, Deacons, Elders, Sunday School Teachers, as well as positions of Professors in Semenaries, and positions of President of the SBC, and so forth. This is why we see so much debate, and with so many embracing other religions, including those of the false prophet cults. Furthermore, we have also seen Pope Francis, Irwin Baxter, and others blasphemously decree that "all religions worship the same god", and this an example of them deceiving the masses into bending the knee to Baal. They are the false prophets and false teachers of Baal.
-
1
- Show all
Part 2 of a 2 Part Post:
They have set up images of idols all around the world, and have even done this with the construct and building of architecture. For those of you that have long been unaware of this until now, there are videos that I can share on this thread in future posts that contained real time data to quickly aid you in fully grasping this reality. As per their evil works of using the television, movie, music, and video game instrustries, as I mentioned before in a previous post, we can unpack this as well. In the meantime, you can get a headstart, if you have not already done so by reading the Books of Kings and Chronicles to learn about how they set up images of idols in Ancient Israel to curse the Children of Israel, as well as build the "high places" and temples to Baal, and much more. You will can learn that this is the prophetic End Times Pattern, and how the other Prophet Books such as Jeremiah, Isaiah, Daniel, Ekekiel, and the others contain the "panoramic" of what is entailed in both Kings and Chronicles, and along with the preceeding Books of Genesis, Exodus, Numbers, (and I really mean all of them, not just these) you can learn about Korah, Cain, and Balaam, as the three evil workers represent Satan's Kingdom; the counterfiet temple, and how they mimick Christianity to give you a full grasp of understanding of 2Corithians 11 per how Satan's ministers masquerade as Christians, just as they, the false prophets do the same in Matthew 7:13-27, and when you read 2Corinthians 6:14-18, you can fully grasp what is written per how there is no sharing of the darkness with the light, and why and how it is that The Lord said to come out from among them and be separate.
Last but not least, I want to touch a bit more about how images of idols have been used in television series. Most have been subtlely used as props, but in shows like Gilligan's Island, Charlies Angels, and others of that era, they worked in many of them into single scenes. While Gilligan's Island was more blatant, though under the guise of comedy, Charlie's Angel's "images of idols" were used as props to represent "expensive art". Other shows such as The Jeffersons, and so forth, used them as props to represent "decor" in people's homes. And this set off a trend setting movement throughout the decade of people incorporating images of idols into their homes as "art" and/or "decor". In the years of the popular series "Antiques Road Show", they have evaluated and appraised countless images of idols at being worth many thousands of dollars. Today, musuems are filled with all sorts of images of idols, from Africa and Mexico's Aztec Mayan exhibits, and so forth with some even making public commecials inviting the masses to come to their exhibits to "learn the Mayan religion". The point here is that images of idols are just that, they are graven images of earthy things as simples as things as frogs, cats, people, and so forth, and there are those graven images that are of heavenly things, be they angels, demons, and what have you. The Catholic Church is full of all sorts of various graven images, and on P.B.S. they have "documentaries" of the Aztecs/Mayans including propaganda of bring back human sacrifice; the same things that went on in Ancient Egypt <<<< grasp this now .... and read Acts 15:19-29 again with 1Corinthians 10:20-22 and consider all of the various shows about Vampires. Yes, vampires are real, and they simply are Satanists that drink blood, and so forth, of the Illuminati, and all of these things, along with Yoga, and other things are all about deceiving the masses into learning the "deep things of Satan" (see Revelation 2:14-29) and this is just the tip of the iceberg. There are multitudes of other evil examples that have been put out, and have waxed much, much worse since the days of "Gilligan's Island" which subtlely depicted human sacrifice, as it has been spilled into countless movies; many of which we can also examine here. These are of the many things that are queering the nations.
One final point per the Masons - They partipate in contending against Christians, not only in the Churches, but also on various Christian Forums, and have played all sorts of games throughout the years to mock discerning Christians, while working to keep others in the dark as to the fact that they are witches/sorcerers/Devil worshippers. There is much more I can say about this too, not mention link to various instances where they have done this. I come to the table, fully prepared, to refute and expose all of them, and have started with the sharing of major proof evidence on Pages 24-28 of this thread. >Click Here< (Parental Guidance is very strongly advised).
They have set up images of idols all around the world, and have even done this with the construct and building of architecture. For those of you that have long been unaware of this until now, there are videos that I can share on this thread in future posts that contained real time data to quickly aid you in fully grasping this reality. As per their evil works of using the television, movie, music, and video game instrustries, as I mentioned before in a previous post, we can unpack this as well. In the meantime, you can get a headstart, if you have not already done so by reading the Books of Kings and Chronicles to learn about how they set up images of idols in Ancient Israel to curse the Children of Israel, as well as build the "high places" and temples to Baal, and much more. You will can learn that this is the prophetic End Times Pattern, and how the other Prophet Books such as Jeremiah, Isaiah, Daniel, Ekekiel, and the others contain the "panoramic" of what is entailed in both Kings and Chronicles, and along with the preceeding Books of Genesis, Exodus, Numbers, (and I really mean all of them, not just these) you can learn about Korah, Cain, and Balaam, as the three evil workers represent Satan's Kingdom; the counterfiet temple, and how they mimick Christianity to give you a full grasp of understanding of 2Corithians 11 per how Satan's ministers masquerade as Christians, just as they, the false prophets do the same in Matthew 7:13-27, and when you read 2Corinthians 6:14-18, you can fully grasp what is written per how there is no sharing of the darkness with the light, and why and how it is that The Lord said to come out from among them and be separate.
Last but not least, I want to touch a bit more about how images of idols have been used in television series. Most have been subtlely used as props, but in shows like Gilligan's Island, Charlies Angels, and others of that era, they worked in many of them into single scenes. While Gilligan's Island was more blatant, though under the guise of comedy, Charlie's Angel's "images of idols" were used as props to represent "expensive art". Other shows such as The Jeffersons, and so forth, used them as props to represent "decor" in people's homes. And this set off a trend setting movement throughout the decade of people incorporating images of idols into their homes as "art" and/or "decor". In the years of the popular series "Antiques Road Show", they have evaluated and appraised countless images of idols at being worth many thousands of dollars. Today, musuems are filled with all sorts of images of idols, from Africa and Mexico's Aztec Mayan exhibits, and so forth with some even making public commecials inviting the masses to come to their exhibits to "learn the Mayan religion". The point here is that images of idols are just that, they are graven images of earthy things as simples as things as frogs, cats, people, and so forth, and there are those graven images that are of heavenly things, be they angels, demons, and what have you. The Catholic Church is full of all sorts of various graven images, and on P.B.S. they have "documentaries" of the Aztecs/Mayans including propaganda of bring back human sacrifice; the same things that went on in Ancient Egypt <<<< grasp this now .... and read Acts 15:19-29 again with 1Corinthians 10:20-22 and consider all of the various shows about Vampires. Yes, vampires are real, and they simply are Satanists that drink blood, and so forth, of the Illuminati, and all of these things, along with Yoga, and other things are all about deceiving the masses into learning the "deep things of Satan" (see Revelation 2:14-29) and this is just the tip of the iceberg. There are multitudes of other evil examples that have been put out, and have waxed much, much worse since the days of "Gilligan's Island" which subtlely depicted human sacrifice, as it has been spilled into countless movies; many of which we can also examine here. These are of the many things that are queering the nations.
One final point per the Masons - They partipate in contending against Christians, not only in the Churches, but also on various Christian Forums, and have played all sorts of games throughout the years to mock discerning Christians, while working to keep others in the dark as to the fact that they are witches/sorcerers/Devil worshippers. There is much more I can say about this too, not mention link to various instances where they have done this. I come to the table, fully prepared, to refute and expose all of them, and have started with the sharing of major proof evidence on Pages 24-28 of this thread. >Click Here< (Parental Guidance is very strongly advised).
-
1
- Show all
I undestand what you mean, and are asking. I wrote something about owls in the previous post to the last two. I also included a couple of links in that post pertaining to the owls, which was a reply to @Lanolin's post. Once you have absorbed the information, you would learn and know that the owl is the symbol for Molech, that centers around human child sacrifice to the Devil, and that it is an image of the idol that is most prominently used by the Illuminati, including higher ranks of Freemasons per that Satanic Ritual, just as the Baphomet is another image of an idol that they regularly use.
@seoulsearch, did you miss noticing those links in the reply that I made to @Lanolin's? Did you by any chance notice the link that I included in my second post to you?
Now, to fully grasp these things, as I mentioned before, Bible reading and prayerful study is the first and most important to best be able to grasp other information, of which has to be carefully and slowly unpacked because there is simply just so much of it that it can fill several entire Forums. In my next post, before I can even continue, I will post the passage from Romans 1 which has to do with the setting up of idols in the heart, along with the consquences of doing so.
@seoulsearch, did you miss noticing those links in the reply that I made to @Lanolin's? Did you by any chance notice the link that I included in my second post to you?
Now, to fully grasp these things, as I mentioned before, Bible reading and prayerful study is the first and most important to best be able to grasp other information, of which has to be carefully and slowly unpacked because there is simply just so much of it that it can fill several entire Forums. In my next post, before I can even continue, I will post the passage from Romans 1 which has to do with the setting up of idols in the heart, along with the consquences of doing so.
Rom 1:1 Paul, a servant of Jesus Christ, called to be an apostle, separated unto the gospel of God,
Rom 1:2 (Which he had promised afore by his prophets in the holy scriptures,)
Rom 1:3 Concerning his Son Jesus Christ our Lord, which was made of the seed of David according to the flesh;
Rom 1:4 And declared to be the Son of God with power, according to the spirit of holiness, by the resurrection from the dead:
Rom 1:5 By whom we have received grace and apostleship, for obedience to the faith among all nations, for his name:
Rom 1:6 Among whom are ye also the called of Jesus Christ:
Rom 1:7 To all that be in Rome, beloved of God, called to be saints: Grace to you and peace from God our Father, and the Lord Jesus Christ.
Rom 1:8 First, I thank my God through Jesus Christ for you all, that your faith is spoken of throughout the whole world.
Rom 1:9 For God is my witness, whom I serve with my spirit in the gospel of his Son, that without ceasing I make mention of you always in my prayers;
Rom 1:10 Making request, if by any means now at length I might have a prosperous journey by the will of God to come unto you.
Rom 1:11 For I long to see you, that I may impart unto you some spiritual gift, to the end ye may be established;
Rom 1:12 That is, that I may be comforted together with you by the mutual faith both of you and me.
Rom 1:13 Now I would not have you ignorant, brethren, that oftentimes I purposed to come unto you, (but was let hitherto,) that I might have some fruit among you also, even as among other Gentiles.
Rom 1:14 I am debtor both to the Greeks, and to the Barbarians; both to the wise, and to the unwise.
Rom 1:15 So, as much as in me is, I am ready to preach the gospel to you that are at Rome also.
Rom 1:16 For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek.
Rom 1:17 For therein is the righteousness of God revealed from faith to faith: as it is written, The just shall live by faith.
Rom 1:18 For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who hold the truth in unrighteousness;
Rom 1:19 Because that which may be known of God is manifest in them; for God hath shewed it unto them.
Rom 1:20 For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse:
Rom 1:21 Because that, when they knew God, they glorified him not as God, neither were thankful; but became vain in their imaginations, and their foolish heart was darkened.
Rom 1:22 Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools,
Rom 1:23 And changed the glory of the uncorruptible God into an image made like to corruptible man, and to birds, and fourfooted beasts, and creeping things.
Rom 1:24 Wherefore God also gave them up to uncleanness through the lusts of their own hearts, to dishonour their own bodies between themselves:
Rom 1:25 Who changed the truth of God into a lie, and worshipped and served the creature more than the Creator, who is blessed for ever. Amen.
Rom 1:26 For this cause God gave them up unto vile affections: for even their women did change the natural use into that which is against nature:
Rom 1:27 And likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another; men with men working that which is unseemly, and receiving in themselves that recompence of their error which was meet.
Rom 1:28 And even as they did not like to retain God in their knowledge, God gave them over to a reprobate mind, to do those things which are not convenient;
Rom 1:29 Being filled with all unrighteousness, fornication, wickedness, covetousness, maliciousness; full of envy, murder, debate, deceit, malignity; whisperers,
Rom 1:30 Backbiters, haters of God, despiteful, proud, boasters, inventors of evil things, disobedient to parents,
Rom 1:31 Without understanding, covenantbreakers, without natural affection, implacable, unmerciful:
Rom 1:32 Who knowing the judgment of God, that they which commit such things are worthy of death, not only do the same, but have pleasure in them that do them.
Rom 1:2 (Which he had promised afore by his prophets in the holy scriptures,)
Rom 1:3 Concerning his Son Jesus Christ our Lord, which was made of the seed of David according to the flesh;
Rom 1:4 And declared to be the Son of God with power, according to the spirit of holiness, by the resurrection from the dead:
Rom 1:5 By whom we have received grace and apostleship, for obedience to the faith among all nations, for his name:
Rom 1:6 Among whom are ye also the called of Jesus Christ:
Rom 1:7 To all that be in Rome, beloved of God, called to be saints: Grace to you and peace from God our Father, and the Lord Jesus Christ.
Rom 1:8 First, I thank my God through Jesus Christ for you all, that your faith is spoken of throughout the whole world.
Rom 1:9 For God is my witness, whom I serve with my spirit in the gospel of his Son, that without ceasing I make mention of you always in my prayers;
Rom 1:10 Making request, if by any means now at length I might have a prosperous journey by the will of God to come unto you.
Rom 1:11 For I long to see you, that I may impart unto you some spiritual gift, to the end ye may be established;
Rom 1:12 That is, that I may be comforted together with you by the mutual faith both of you and me.
Rom 1:13 Now I would not have you ignorant, brethren, that oftentimes I purposed to come unto you, (but was let hitherto,) that I might have some fruit among you also, even as among other Gentiles.
Rom 1:14 I am debtor both to the Greeks, and to the Barbarians; both to the wise, and to the unwise.
Rom 1:15 So, as much as in me is, I am ready to preach the gospel to you that are at Rome also.
Rom 1:16 For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek.
Rom 1:17 For therein is the righteousness of God revealed from faith to faith: as it is written, The just shall live by faith.
Rom 1:18 For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who hold the truth in unrighteousness;
Rom 1:19 Because that which may be known of God is manifest in them; for God hath shewed it unto them.
Rom 1:20 For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse:
Rom 1:21 Because that, when they knew God, they glorified him not as God, neither were thankful; but became vain in their imaginations, and their foolish heart was darkened.
Rom 1:22 Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools,
Rom 1:23 And changed the glory of the uncorruptible God into an image made like to corruptible man, and to birds, and fourfooted beasts, and creeping things.
Rom 1:24 Wherefore God also gave them up to uncleanness through the lusts of their own hearts, to dishonour their own bodies between themselves:
Rom 1:25 Who changed the truth of God into a lie, and worshipped and served the creature more than the Creator, who is blessed for ever. Amen.
Rom 1:26 For this cause God gave them up unto vile affections: for even their women did change the natural use into that which is against nature:
Rom 1:27 And likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another; men with men working that which is unseemly, and receiving in themselves that recompence of their error which was meet.
Rom 1:28 And even as they did not like to retain God in their knowledge, God gave them over to a reprobate mind, to do those things which are not convenient;
Rom 1:29 Being filled with all unrighteousness, fornication, wickedness, covetousness, maliciousness; full of envy, murder, debate, deceit, malignity; whisperers,
Rom 1:30 Backbiters, haters of God, despiteful, proud, boasters, inventors of evil things, disobedient to parents,
Rom 1:31 Without understanding, covenantbreakers, without natural affection, implacable, unmerciful:
Rom 1:32 Who knowing the judgment of God, that they which commit such things are worthy of death, not only do the same, but have pleasure in them that do them.
J-T: Still confused about what you are saying. Are you saying we should get rid of an owl painting my grandmother made that happens to be hanging on the wall? Should a friend of mine throw away her stuffed owl?
If that's not what you are saying, then I'm REALLY lost... why did you mention the whole bit about owl imagery? Just as trivia? "By the way, FYI, these groups used an owl as their symbol"?
If that's not what you are saying, then I'm REALLY lost... why did you mention the whole bit about owl imagery? Just as trivia? "By the way, FYI, these groups used an owl as their symbol"?
@Lynx, I do not want for you to be confused. No, I would not suggest throwing out a painting that your grandmother painted in good conscience. Why I do suggest is a time out for prayer, and a godly examination of any various images, be they made with plastic, stone, concrete, wood, or whatever material that would constitute images of idols. I don't know how old or young you are, but if you really don't understand what I mean by that, just pray for now, and very soon, we will examine numerous links with real time examples, along with scriptural passages, and so forth to give you and everyone participating all of the information that you need to make the right choices, along with understanding of how the entire world is being deceived. And to answer your question, yes, the Occult uses the owl as an abominable symbol, as an idol. But they have done this with all sorts of animals, and other types of things for evil purposes. As I mentioned in my last post, I love animals, and I love owls, cats, dogs, you name it! But I don't need any image of them, that are made out of the various materials. We have the living creatures given by God to enjoy. Does this explaination help?
Hi J-T,
I have been doing my best to follow along with your answers. I greatly appreciate that you are calm, rational, and polite in your responses. I apologize for taking so long to answer, but in all honesty, I have spent the past few days praying, pondering, and studying. I completely respect your beliefs (and to reiterate for any readers who are just joining in, we are talking about why some Christians, such as J-T has stated, do not believe in having images of animals, particularly owls, in your home, etc.)
As I had said, many years ago, I was told by some respected elders in my church that Christians are not to have any images of "creatures of the night," particularly bats and owls. But yet cats are naturally nocturnal (creatures of the night,) and millions of Christians own them and love on them (while holding their cat-shaped coffee mug and snuggling up in their cat print pajamas.)
To make a long conclusion sort, I respect your belief, but I disagree with it. The elders in my church believed as you do and it was interesting, and eventually tragic for me to see, because they basically went through my house and pointed out all the things I "needed to get rid of," because they were seeing "demons" behind everything, including this:
It may not look like much, but this is a pattern for a cross stitch angel I made as a child -- I was working on the full collection, because I wanted it to be a family heirloom to pass on. These pieces are immensely intricate, with hundreds of colors of threads, including metallic and iridescent versions that are not easy to work with, with every stitch being made by hand. This picture took probably nearly 2 years to make (for me, at least... I can admit to never being the fastest at anything!)
But along with bats, owls, and frogs, my church elders said they saw a "demon" behind this image, saying it was similar to or the same spirit behind the scene in Mel Gibson's The Passion of the Christ where the devil walks by, holding a demonic baby. They told me I needed to get rid of this, along with other pictures I had done from the set, and even a nativity scene I had started working on.
At the time, I was going through a lot and at various points, was told I was being rebellious for not listening if I didn't jump to follow certain member's beliefs or directions. This is why I'm very cautious when people say, "You shouldn't have this, you shouldn't have that..." because how does one know where the lines are drawn? Some people cross lines and don't even recognize it because they believe they have a righteous (and therefore, unquestionable) cause.
This led me on a quest to do some searching of my own, which I will state in my next post.
I first want to apologize to @SarahUmbreon, as this is derailing your thread. But I honestly felt, after praying, that it was important to post this story because we often get people from younger or newer Christians who are wondering about the images they have around them, and what they can and cannot keep.
J-T, I respect your position and of course, encourage you and anyone to go with the convictions God has given them. However, I disagree with what I'm understanding is the implied belief that everyone needs to follow the same rules you have come up with for yourself.
And here's why I believe this way. (Next post, please.)
I have been doing my best to follow along with your answers. I greatly appreciate that you are calm, rational, and polite in your responses. I apologize for taking so long to answer, but in all honesty, I have spent the past few days praying, pondering, and studying. I completely respect your beliefs (and to reiterate for any readers who are just joining in, we are talking about why some Christians, such as J-T has stated, do not believe in having images of animals, particularly owls, in your home, etc.)
As I had said, many years ago, I was told by some respected elders in my church that Christians are not to have any images of "creatures of the night," particularly bats and owls. But yet cats are naturally nocturnal (creatures of the night,) and millions of Christians own them and love on them (while holding their cat-shaped coffee mug and snuggling up in their cat print pajamas.)
To make a long conclusion sort, I respect your belief, but I disagree with it. The elders in my church believed as you do and it was interesting, and eventually tragic for me to see, because they basically went through my house and pointed out all the things I "needed to get rid of," because they were seeing "demons" behind everything, including this:
It may not look like much, but this is a pattern for a cross stitch angel I made as a child -- I was working on the full collection, because I wanted it to be a family heirloom to pass on. These pieces are immensely intricate, with hundreds of colors of threads, including metallic and iridescent versions that are not easy to work with, with every stitch being made by hand. This picture took probably nearly 2 years to make (for me, at least... I can admit to never being the fastest at anything!)
But along with bats, owls, and frogs, my church elders said they saw a "demon" behind this image, saying it was similar to or the same spirit behind the scene in Mel Gibson's The Passion of the Christ where the devil walks by, holding a demonic baby. They told me I needed to get rid of this, along with other pictures I had done from the set, and even a nativity scene I had started working on.
At the time, I was going through a lot and at various points, was told I was being rebellious for not listening if I didn't jump to follow certain member's beliefs or directions. This is why I'm very cautious when people say, "You shouldn't have this, you shouldn't have that..." because how does one know where the lines are drawn? Some people cross lines and don't even recognize it because they believe they have a righteous (and therefore, unquestionable) cause.
This led me on a quest to do some searching of my own, which I will state in my next post.
I first want to apologize to @SarahUmbreon, as this is derailing your thread. But I honestly felt, after praying, that it was important to post this story because we often get people from younger or newer Christians who are wondering about the images they have around them, and what they can and cannot keep.
J-T, I respect your position and of course, encourage you and anyone to go with the convictions God has given them. However, I disagree with what I'm understanding is the implied belief that everyone needs to follow the same rules you have come up with for yourself.
And here's why I believe this way. (Next post, please.)
-
1
- Show all
Thank you for bearing with me for the second part of my post.
First of all, I want to make it very clear that I most definitely believe there are images we should stay away from. Just a few weeks ago we had someone posting that he had covered his walls with pictures of half-naked women and didn't feel convicted about it one bit. I am most definitely NOT saying in any way, shape, or form that there aren't images out there that we as Christians should stay away from.
I honestly wasn't going to make a reply to your posts, because I know it's a matter of you believing in what you believe, and I stand by my current set of studies about the subject as well.
However, the reason I'm taking the time to make these posts (I spent about 2 hours looking up passages this morning, and I'm giving a shout out to CC friends who reminded me of passages I had forgotten,) is because I also believe it's important for younger or newer Christians to hear a different perspective about this subject from which they can study the Bible for themselves about this issue.
First of all, God is clear about images:
* Exodus 20: 3, 4 -- You shall have no other gods before Me. You shall not make for yourself a carved image - any likeness of anything that is in heaven above or is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth; you shall not bow down to them or serve them.
In His very first commandment, God leaves no room for any doubt. But notice the important detail He gives regarding these images: "You shall not BOW DOWN TO or SERVE them." I believe God makes a very clear distinction between images to be enjoyed as decoration or reminders of His goodness vs. images that are made with the motivation of worship behind them. And here is why I believe this.
In the Old Testament, God clearly and distinctly chose images to adorn and decorate the very things that would represent, and even contain, His presence. The Ark of the Covenant, which was to be carried with His people and was considered sacred, had not one, but two cherubim molded and fitted right on the top of the ark (Exodus 25:10-22; Exodus 37:7.)
(Side note: I have always wondered... How on earth would a human know what a cherubim looked like? Did He allow that craftsman to see one, or give him a dream of what one looked like? How amazing is that!) It's also interesting that God would choose the images of heavenly beings to be included in these places. Wouldn't an image of a heavenly being be even more tempting for people to worship rather than the God they served? (More about this in my third post.) But yet, this was God's choice.
Cherubim are again used in the temple God commanded Solomon to build that He Himself would dwell in (1 Kings 6:23; 1 Kings 6: 31, 32) along with carvings of palm trees and open flowers. Even the lampstand in Exodus 25:33 had bowls that "were to be shaped like almond blossoms."
The temple also included a "sea of cast in bronze, which stood on 12 oxen" (1 Kings 7:24-26.)
You stated in your post that God gave us living creatures to enjoy, which I certainly agree with. But judging from these passages, God indeed knows the difference between decoration and veneration. After all, HE was the one to choose these images that were to be worked into objects that would contain His holy presence. These were also the things and places in which He would meet His people, meaning that the people would SEE these very images, NOT the living creatures, but REPRESENTATIONS of them.
And because God called the craftsmen who made them by name (Bezalel, Aholiab, Hiriam) and said it was HE, the Lord God Himself who had filled them with all kinds of wisdom for this work, God obviously wanted the best of the best when it came to designing these representations of His own creations. My guess is that God did not pull a Monet here. In other words, He didn't choose artists that would just slop down a blob of material and say, "That's a cherubim," or, "There's an ox." Rather, I would guess that He chose and equipped these men to be able to make sculptures and carvings that were detailed down to the most finite detail, with my point being that they were, without a doubt, images that fully looked like the beings they were supposed to be.
But God had no problem commanding that these images be placed in areas of His holy presence.
Apparently, He was confident enough that the people could see these images for themselves but yet would be able to discern between them as decoration, and an invisible God without an image that they were to worship above all things.
Now I realize that some will say that of course, this is the ark and temple of the Lord we're talking about, and He could choose to put anything in it that He wanted. Some would probably argue that such decoration is only to be used by the Lord, and maybe that's true. Perhaps some will say that God only gifted those specific craftsmen with those specific gifts and images for their use in His temple. But I believe God still gifts craftsmen and artists, and that their gifting still holds a purpose for today, which I am happy to support when I can.
One of the things I'm thinking about as I write this (and the whole thought that we should only have living creatures, and not images,) is that I have a birdhouse near my window that is decorated with bright, cheery colors, and yes -- images of birds. I couldn't help but think of how ironic this is (images of a living animal set on a piece of equipment designed to house that animal.)
Personally, I am glad to support the artist who made it and believe their talent is a gift from God, but that's just me.
(One last point... In just a few...)
First of all, I want to make it very clear that I most definitely believe there are images we should stay away from. Just a few weeks ago we had someone posting that he had covered his walls with pictures of half-naked women and didn't feel convicted about it one bit. I am most definitely NOT saying in any way, shape, or form that there aren't images out there that we as Christians should stay away from.
I honestly wasn't going to make a reply to your posts, because I know it's a matter of you believing in what you believe, and I stand by my current set of studies about the subject as well.
However, the reason I'm taking the time to make these posts (I spent about 2 hours looking up passages this morning, and I'm giving a shout out to CC friends who reminded me of passages I had forgotten,) is because I also believe it's important for younger or newer Christians to hear a different perspective about this subject from which they can study the Bible for themselves about this issue.
First of all, God is clear about images:
* Exodus 20: 3, 4 -- You shall have no other gods before Me. You shall not make for yourself a carved image - any likeness of anything that is in heaven above or is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth; you shall not bow down to them or serve them.
In His very first commandment, God leaves no room for any doubt. But notice the important detail He gives regarding these images: "You shall not BOW DOWN TO or SERVE them." I believe God makes a very clear distinction between images to be enjoyed as decoration or reminders of His goodness vs. images that are made with the motivation of worship behind them. And here is why I believe this.
In the Old Testament, God clearly and distinctly chose images to adorn and decorate the very things that would represent, and even contain, His presence. The Ark of the Covenant, which was to be carried with His people and was considered sacred, had not one, but two cherubim molded and fitted right on the top of the ark (Exodus 25:10-22; Exodus 37:7.)
(Side note: I have always wondered... How on earth would a human know what a cherubim looked like? Did He allow that craftsman to see one, or give him a dream of what one looked like? How amazing is that!) It's also interesting that God would choose the images of heavenly beings to be included in these places. Wouldn't an image of a heavenly being be even more tempting for people to worship rather than the God they served? (More about this in my third post.) But yet, this was God's choice.
Cherubim are again used in the temple God commanded Solomon to build that He Himself would dwell in (1 Kings 6:23; 1 Kings 6: 31, 32) along with carvings of palm trees and open flowers. Even the lampstand in Exodus 25:33 had bowls that "were to be shaped like almond blossoms."
The temple also included a "sea of cast in bronze, which stood on 12 oxen" (1 Kings 7:24-26.)
You stated in your post that God gave us living creatures to enjoy, which I certainly agree with. But judging from these passages, God indeed knows the difference between decoration and veneration. After all, HE was the one to choose these images that were to be worked into objects that would contain His holy presence. These were also the things and places in which He would meet His people, meaning that the people would SEE these very images, NOT the living creatures, but REPRESENTATIONS of them.
And because God called the craftsmen who made them by name (Bezalel, Aholiab, Hiriam) and said it was HE, the Lord God Himself who had filled them with all kinds of wisdom for this work, God obviously wanted the best of the best when it came to designing these representations of His own creations. My guess is that God did not pull a Monet here. In other words, He didn't choose artists that would just slop down a blob of material and say, "That's a cherubim," or, "There's an ox." Rather, I would guess that He chose and equipped these men to be able to make sculptures and carvings that were detailed down to the most finite detail, with my point being that they were, without a doubt, images that fully looked like the beings they were supposed to be.
But God had no problem commanding that these images be placed in areas of His holy presence.
Apparently, He was confident enough that the people could see these images for themselves but yet would be able to discern between them as decoration, and an invisible God without an image that they were to worship above all things.
Now I realize that some will say that of course, this is the ark and temple of the Lord we're talking about, and He could choose to put anything in it that He wanted. Some would probably argue that such decoration is only to be used by the Lord, and maybe that's true. Perhaps some will say that God only gifted those specific craftsmen with those specific gifts and images for their use in His temple. But I believe God still gifts craftsmen and artists, and that their gifting still holds a purpose for today, which I am happy to support when I can.
One of the things I'm thinking about as I write this (and the whole thought that we should only have living creatures, and not images,) is that I have a birdhouse near my window that is decorated with bright, cheery colors, and yes -- images of birds. I couldn't help but think of how ironic this is (images of a living animal set on a piece of equipment designed to house that animal.)
Personally, I am glad to support the artist who made it and believe their talent is a gift from God, but that's just me.
(One last point... In just a few...)
-
1
- Show all
So along with frogs, bats, and owls, it won't take much to guess what the number one most maligned animal among my church elders was: it was snakes, of course. Snakes in any and all forms were seen to be evil, and there's no question that it was a serpent who led Eve into temptation in the garden.
However, when people talk about how evil snakes are and that Christians are never to have anything with an image of a snake on it, I find it intriguing that they never mention another utterly fascinating story about snakes in the Bible.
At one point, God was so angry with the people that He sent poisonous snakes among them in order to clean house. But when the people repented, God told Moses, "Make a fiery serpent, and set it on a pole, and it shall be that everyone who is bitten, when he looks at it, shall live." (Numbers 21:8.)
Another translation I looked at used the word "poisonous" instead of "fiery." In other words, God didn't tell Moses to make an image of a harmless little garden snake. Rather, God commanded that it specifically be an image of a snake that was fierce and deadly. God was certainly not afraid to utilize an image of a ferocious animal here.
And it's interesting that the people weren't commanded to pray about it, or declare themselves healed in the name of the Lord, or command that the snake venom would have no effect on their system according to the power of God, but rather, they were specifically told to LOOK at that bronze image of a snake.
Now, I'm certainly NOT trying to say AT ALL that the snake is what healed them -- that would be ridiculous. I think we can both agree that the image itself held absolutely no power. But what did hold power was the faith to believe that if they did as God commanded (looking up at the image of the snake,) God would heal them, which He was merciful enough to do. I don't know why God chose to do things this way, but again, God used an image of an animal for His own Holy purpose, even though it had people looking at a mere representation of His creation, and not a living example of His creation itself.
And, perhaps to no one's surprise, some of the people took it too far and started worshipping the image of the snake. 2 Kings 18:10 states that King Hezekiah had to break the bronze snake in pieces because instead of seeing it as a reminder of God's power and goodness, the Bible says people were burning incense to it and even gave it the name Nehushtan.
For me, this is a very clear illustration that like anything else in life, anything in existence can be used for good or for bad, and it's up to us to become familiar with God's discernment for us in knowing what we can have around us, as well as our motivation for having it.
Personally, I think the cross has become an image that is all too often misused. I see people doing their own thing (I'm not saying this in judgment because we all have our own sins, but rather, as an observation) such as continuing to have children out of wedlock, taking illicit substances, etc., but they wear their cross necklaces and jewelry and have Jesus bumper stickers on their cars. Sometimes I wonder if they believe more in the image and symbol of the cross rather than the God that the cross represents. In those cases, I personally believe that maybe a cross might not be the right choice of adornment for that person, but that's between them and God.
Like anyone else, I realize that I am a sinful person ("Chief of sinners, though I be...")
So I have written all of this just to make the point that I personally don't believe God forbids us to create or have images of His creations. I think He trusts us to know when something is for decoration, and when something is in danger of capturing our hearts, and walks with us daily to make sure, when we seek Him out, that He directs us in such matters.
I'm not telling anyone what they should or shouldn't have in their presence -- if asked my opinion, I would give my thoughts from my own point of view as to why or why not I felt either at ease or uncomfortable about it.
But whether or not an image of an animal or anything else is a stumbling block to is, in my opinion, ultimately between them and the Lord.
Thanks for taking the time to answer, J-T, and God bless you.
However, when people talk about how evil snakes are and that Christians are never to have anything with an image of a snake on it, I find it intriguing that they never mention another utterly fascinating story about snakes in the Bible.
At one point, God was so angry with the people that He sent poisonous snakes among them in order to clean house. But when the people repented, God told Moses, "Make a fiery serpent, and set it on a pole, and it shall be that everyone who is bitten, when he looks at it, shall live." (Numbers 21:8.)
Another translation I looked at used the word "poisonous" instead of "fiery." In other words, God didn't tell Moses to make an image of a harmless little garden snake. Rather, God commanded that it specifically be an image of a snake that was fierce and deadly. God was certainly not afraid to utilize an image of a ferocious animal here.
And it's interesting that the people weren't commanded to pray about it, or declare themselves healed in the name of the Lord, or command that the snake venom would have no effect on their system according to the power of God, but rather, they were specifically told to LOOK at that bronze image of a snake.
Now, I'm certainly NOT trying to say AT ALL that the snake is what healed them -- that would be ridiculous. I think we can both agree that the image itself held absolutely no power. But what did hold power was the faith to believe that if they did as God commanded (looking up at the image of the snake,) God would heal them, which He was merciful enough to do. I don't know why God chose to do things this way, but again, God used an image of an animal for His own Holy purpose, even though it had people looking at a mere representation of His creation, and not a living example of His creation itself.
And, perhaps to no one's surprise, some of the people took it too far and started worshipping the image of the snake. 2 Kings 18:10 states that King Hezekiah had to break the bronze snake in pieces because instead of seeing it as a reminder of God's power and goodness, the Bible says people were burning incense to it and even gave it the name Nehushtan.
For me, this is a very clear illustration that like anything else in life, anything in existence can be used for good or for bad, and it's up to us to become familiar with God's discernment for us in knowing what we can have around us, as well as our motivation for having it.
Personally, I think the cross has become an image that is all too often misused. I see people doing their own thing (I'm not saying this in judgment because we all have our own sins, but rather, as an observation) such as continuing to have children out of wedlock, taking illicit substances, etc., but they wear their cross necklaces and jewelry and have Jesus bumper stickers on their cars. Sometimes I wonder if they believe more in the image and symbol of the cross rather than the God that the cross represents. In those cases, I personally believe that maybe a cross might not be the right choice of adornment for that person, but that's between them and God.
Like anyone else, I realize that I am a sinful person ("Chief of sinners, though I be...")
So I have written all of this just to make the point that I personally don't believe God forbids us to create or have images of His creations. I think He trusts us to know when something is for decoration, and when something is in danger of capturing our hearts, and walks with us daily to make sure, when we seek Him out, that He directs us in such matters.
I'm not telling anyone what they should or shouldn't have in their presence -- if asked my opinion, I would give my thoughts from my own point of view as to why or why not I felt either at ease or uncomfortable about it.
But whether or not an image of an animal or anything else is a stumbling block to is, in my opinion, ultimately between them and the Lord.
Thanks for taking the time to answer, J-T, and God bless you.
-
2
- Show all