Jerusalem Is The Whore, Mystery Babylon The Great, The Seven Hilled City

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Truth7t7

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May 19, 2020
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#21
What are you questioning? Rome turned on Jerusalem as the beast does the Harlot in Rev. The Harlot is a bride or married. Feel free to ask.
Correct, the whore is referred to as a woman, Jerusalem and the religious org of the Hebrews has always been seen in the feminine, (Her, She)

Rome wasn't a religious org when the Revelation was written a fact.

Jerusalem Is The Whore, Mystery Babylon The Great, The Great City.
 

Truth7t7

Well-known member
May 19, 2020
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#22
What are you questioning? Rome turned on Jerusalem as the beast does the Harlot in Rev. The Harlot is a bride or married. Feel free to ask.
Jerusalem Is Mystery Babylon The Great, The Whore, Mother Of Harlots

The Colors And Jewels Of The Aaronic/Levitical Priesthood Below, Represents The Dressing Of The Woman In Revelation 17:4 Below.

Revelation 17:4KJV
4 And the woman was arrayed in purple and scarlet colour, and decked with gold and precious stones and pearls, having a golden cup in her hand full of abominations and filthiness of her fornication:

Ezekiel 16:15-17KJV
15 But thou didst trust in thine own beauty, and playedst the harlot because of thy renown, and pouredst out thy fornications on every one that passed by; his it was.
16 And of thy garments thou didst take, and deckedst thy high places with divers colours, and playedst the harlot thereupon: the like things shall not come, neither shall it be so.
17 Thou hast also taken thy fair jewels of my gold and of my silver, which I had given thee, and madest to thyself images of men, and didst commit whoredom with them,

Exodus 39:1-2 & 8-13KJV
1 And of the blue, and purple, and scarlet, they made cloths of service, to do service in the holy place, and made the holy garments for Aaron; as the Lord commanded Moses.
2 And he made the ephod of gold, blue, and purple, and scarlet, and fine twined linen.

8 And he made the breastplate of cunning work, like the work of the ephod; of gold, blue, and purple, and scarlet, and fine twined linen.
9 It was foursquare; they made the breastplate double: a span was the length thereof, and a span the breadth thereof, being doubled.
10 And they set in it four rows of stones: the first row was a sardius, a topaz, and a carbuncle: this was the first row.
11 And the second row, an emerald, a sapphire, and a diamond.
12 And the third row, a ligure, an agate, and an amethyst.
13 And the fourth row, a beryl, an onyx, and a jasper: they were inclosed in ouches of gold in their inclosings.
 

Truth7t7

Well-known member
May 19, 2020
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#23
What are you questioning? Rome turned on Jerusalem as the beast does the Harlot in Rev. The Harlot is a bride or married. Feel free to ask.
Jerusalem Is Mystery Babylon The Great, The Whore, Mother Of Harlots

The Colors And Jewels Of The Aaronic/Levitical Priesthood Below, Represents The Dressing Of The Woman In Revelation 17:4 Below.

Revelation 17:4KJV
4 And the woman was arrayed in purple and scarlet colour, and decked with gold and precious stones and pearls, having a golden cup in her hand full of abominations and filthiness of her fornication:

Ezekiel 16:15-17KJV
15 But thou didst trust in thine own beauty, and playedst the harlot because of thy renown, and pouredst out thy fornications on every one that passed by; his it was.
16 And of thy garments thou didst take, and deckedst thy high places with divers colours, and playedst the harlot thereupon: the like things shall not come, neither shall it be so.
17 Thou hast also taken thy fair jewels of my gold and of my silver, which I had given thee, and madest to thyself images of men, and didst commit whoredom with them,

Purple, Scarlet, Gold, And Precious Stones!

Exodus 39:1-2 & 8-13KJV
1 And of the blue, and purple, and scarlet, they made cloths of service, to do service in the holy place, and made the holy garments for Aaron; as the Lord commanded Moses.
2 And he made the ephod of gold, blue, and purple, and scarlet, and fine twined linen.

8 And he made the breastplate of cunning work, like the work of the ephod; of gold, blue, and purple, and scarlet, and fine twined linen.
9 It was foursquare; they made the breastplate double: a span was the length thereof, and a span the breadth thereof, being doubled.
10 And they set in it four rows of stones: the first row was a sardius, a topaz, and a carbuncle: this was the first row.
11 And the second row, an emerald, a sapphire, and a diamond.
12 And the third row, a ligure, an agate, and an amethyst.
13 And the fourth row, a beryl, an onyx, and a jasper: they were inclosed in ouches of gold in their inclosings.
 

Nehemiah6

Senior Member
Jul 18, 2017
26,074
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#24
(Jerusalem) is the whore, mystery Babylon the great.
More Fake News from the purveyor of confused eschatology. What exactly are your trying to accomplish?
 
Jun 11, 2020
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#26
Dividing along metaphor and literal gets into the literary devices employed by the author and how words work.... a better system is divide between Abstract (ideas) and Concrete Reality when it comes to reading the text.

The Four Beasts in Daniel being an example, rich in ideas and metaphor through the use of words to express those ideas with a concrete reality of four also present.
I quite agree.
 
Aug 14, 2019
1,374
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#27
A
. You'll admit that BOTH Cities are called "Great". The difference is that Jerusalem is NOT called Babylon, but "Sodom" and "Egypt". And
This isn't an either or thing. Babylon is a spiritual reality symbolized by a material object. A necessity since spiritual realities otherwise can't be conceptualized. Jerusalem is the bride of Christ and a remnant remained so. The remnant is faithful and is sent to convert the nations. Jesus enters Jerusalem. That's a husbands role. Jerusalem was supposed to receive Jesus and that's a wife's role. The Apostles take a husbands role relative to Rome. Rome is entered into by Christ through His Apostles. Rome becomes the whore of Babylon relative to the Church but Jerusalem is the whore relative to Christ Himself. Jerusalem is symbolized by notorious places of idolatry of the past for that reason. Just as the blood shed by the whore precedes the existence of Jerusalem. Babylon isn't bound to one place and time but originates in the mother of all human flesh and cultivated in human hearts and different cultures and places since the beginning of history to it's end. Since Jesus is the Lord and center of history Jerusalem is 'the' bride that plays the whore that rides the beast.
 
Jun 11, 2020
1,370
424
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#28
A
This isn't an either or thing. Babylon is a spiritual reality symbolized by a material object. A necessity since spiritual realities otherwise can't be conceptualized. Jerusalem is the bride of Christ and a remnant remained so. The remnant is faithful and is sent to convert the nations. Jesus enters Jerusalem. That's a husbands role. Jerusalem was supposed to receive Jesus and that's a wife's role. The Apostles take a husbands role relative to Rome. Rome is entered into by Christ through His Apostles. Rome becomes the whore of Babylon relative to the Church but Jerusalem is the whore relative to Christ Himself. Jerusalem is symbolized by notorious places of idolatry of the past for that reason. Just as the blood shed by the whore precedes the existence of Jerusalem. Babylon isn't bound to one place and time but originates in the mother of all human flesh and cultivated in human hearts and different cultures and places since the beginning of history to it's end. Since Jesus is the Lord and center of history Jerusalem is 'the' bride that plays the whore that rides the beast.
Thanks for your input. I've read it and noted it. Go well.
 

posthuman

Senior Member
Jul 31, 2013
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#29
The Roman Empire didnt exist to be guilty of the Prophets blood seen below, Jerusalem did.

Revelation 18:24KJV
24 And in her was found the blood of prophets, and of saints, and of all that were slain upon the earth.
Revelation 18:21
Then a mighty angel took up a stone like a great millstone and threw [it] into the sea, saying, "Thus with violence the great city Babylon shall be thrown down, and shall not be found anymore.

Will Jerusalem be taken away and not found anymore?
 

Truth7t7

Well-known member
May 19, 2020
7,685
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#30
A
This isn't an either or thing. Babylon is a spiritual reality symbolized by a material object. A necessity since spiritual realities otherwise can't be conceptualized. Jerusalem is the bride of Christ and a remnant remained so. The remnant is faithful and is sent to convert the nations. Jesus enters Jerusalem. That's a husbands role. Jerusalem was supposed to receive Jesus and that's a wife's role. The Apostles take a husbands role relative to Rome. Rome is entered into by Christ through His Apostles. Rome becomes the whore of Babylon relative to the Church but Jerusalem is the whore relative to Christ Himself. Jerusalem is symbolized by notorious places of idolatry of the past for that reason. Just as the blood shed by the whore precedes the existence of Jerusalem. Babylon isn't bound to one place and time but originates in the mother of all human flesh and cultivated in human hearts and different cultures and places since the beginning of history to it's end. Since Jesus is the Lord and center of history Jerusalem is 'the' bride that plays the whore that rides the beast.
I agree, throughout the Old Testament Jerusalem/Israel has been Identified as the Harlot/Whore, worshipping the foreign gods of other nations, derived in Babylon.

Of course Jerusalem is the whore, Mystery Babylon the Great, The Great City Upon Seven Hills. Wearing purple, scarlet , gold and Precious stones, representing the Dressing of the Levitical Priesthood
 

GraceAndTruth

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Sep 28, 2015
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#31
I just undid my positive reaction. (sorry)

I took another look at those verses Rev 17: 18 and reversed my original (but not thought out) view of this "woman" It says v18 "The woman whom you saw is the great city, which reigns over the kings (Caesars) of the earth.” Reigns indicates a royal rule (king) telling us who those kings are vs 10-11.

Rome is the harlot. The reign of Nero (the 6th king) saw the Jewish wars and took much blood of the saints. It was during Nero's reign that PAUL was beheaded. NERO is also responsible for the death of Peter and an unknown number of those early followers of Christ.

Rome is known for sitting on 7 hills.
This is not the same woman in Revelation 12 with the 12 stars. She is undeniably Jerusalem.
 

Truth7t7

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May 19, 2020
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#32
I just undid my positive reaction. (sorry)

I took another look at those verses Rev 17: 18 and reversed my original (but not thought out) view of this "woman" It says v18 "The woman whom you saw is the great city, which reigns over the kings (Caesars) of the earth.” Reigns indicates a royal rule (king) telling us who those kings are vs 10-11.

Rome is the harlot. The reign of Nero (the 6th king) saw the Jewish wars and took much blood of the saints. It was during Nero's reign that PAUL was beheaded. NERO is also responsible for the death of Peter and an unknown number of those early followers of Christ.

Rome is known for sitting on 7 hills.
This is not the same woman in Revelation 12 with the 12 stars. She is undeniably Jerusalem.
Thanks for the response!

The original OP post (Alone) proves your claim to be in error, Rev 18:24 states this woman/whore is guilty of the prophets blood, and all the blood upon the earth, History clearly teaches Rome didnt exist be guilty of the prophets blood?

Jesus Christ in his own words Fulfills Rev 18:24, very simple, clear, and easy to understand.

That upon you may come all the righteous blood shed upon the earth,

As you have said (Multiple Times) scripture interprets itself, as Matthew 23:29-37 below (Clearly) identifies this woman in Rev 18:24 as Jerusalem, guilty of the prophets blood, and all slain upon the earth.

(Jerusalem) is the seven hilled city, where the woman sits, not Rome as many falsely claim.

Revelation 17:9KJV
9 And here is the mind which hath wisdom. The seven heads are seven mountains, on which the woman sitteth.

List of cities claimed to be built on seven hills - Wikipedia
Jerusalem, Israel: Jerusalem's seven hills are Mount Scopus, Mount Olivet and the Mount of Corruption (all three are peaks in a mountain ridge that lies east of the Old City), Mount Ophel, the original Mount Zion, the New Mount Zion and the hill on which the Antonia Fortress was built.

The Roman Empire didnt exist to be guilty of the Prophets blood seen below, Jerusalem did.

Revelation 18:24KJV
24 And in her was found the blood of prophets, and of saints, and of all that were slain upon the earth.

Matthew 23:29-37KJV
29 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! because ye build the tombs of the prophets, and garnish the sepulchres of the righteous,
30 And say, If we had been in the days of our fathers, we would not have been partakers with them in the blood of the prophets.
31 Wherefore ye be witnesses unto yourselves, that ye are the children of them which killed the prophets.
32 Fill ye up then the measure of your fathers.
33 Ye serpents, ye generation of vipers, how can ye escape the damnation of hell?
34 Wherefore, behold, I send unto you prophets, and wise men, and scribes: and some of them ye shall kill and crucify; and some of them shall ye scourge in your synagogues, and persecute them from city to city:
35 That upon you may come all the righteous blood shed upon the earth, from the blood of righteous Abel unto the blood of Zacharias son of Barachias, whom ye slew between the temple and the altar.
36 Verily I say unto you, All these things shall come upon this generation.
37 O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, thou that killest the prophets, and stonest them which are sent unto thee, how often would I have gathered thy children together, even as a hen gathereth her chickens under her wings, and ye would not!
 

GraceAndTruth

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Sep 28, 2015
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#33
a person regarded as an inspired teacher or proclaimer of the will of God. (dictionary definition)
Paul was definitely a Holy Spirit inspired teacher as was Peter
 

Truth7t7

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#34
Revelation 18:21
Then a mighty angel took up a stone like a great millstone and threw [it] into the sea, saying, "Thus with violence the great city Babylon shall be thrown down, and shall not be found anymore.

Will Jerusalem be taken away and not found anymore?
Revelation 17-18 represent a continous reading, talking about (Mystery Babylon) this implies its not the literal historical Babylon, it's a (Mystery) with clues on the identity?

Revelation 17:5KJV
5 And upon her forehead was a name written, Mystery, Babylon The Great, The Mother Of Harlots And Abominations Of The Earth.

Jerusalem Upon This Earth Is Removed, Revelation Chapter 11 Below Shows the Events Leading To Its Final Destruction, And That Of This Existing World, It Will Be Replaced With The New Jerusalem, Heaven, And Earth

Behold I Make All Things New


Revelation 11 King James Version (KJV)
11 And there was given me a reed like unto a rod: and the angel stood, saying, Rise, and measure the temple of God, and the altar, and them that worship therein.
2 But the court which is without the temple leave out, and measure it not; for it is given unto the Gentiles: and the holy city shall they tread under foot forty and two months.
3 And I will give power unto my two witnesses, and they shall prophesy a thousand two hundred and threescore days, clothed in sackcloth.
4 These are the two olive trees, and the two candlesticks standing before the God of the earth.
5 And if any man will hurt them, fire proceedeth out of their mouth, and devoureth their enemies: and if any man will hurt them, he must in this manner be killed.
6 These have power to shut heaven, that it rain not in the days of their prophecy: and have power over waters to turn them to blood, and to smite the earth with all plagues, as often as they will.
7 And when they shall have finished their testimony, the beast that ascendeth out of the bottomless pit shall make war against them, and shall overcome them, and kill them.
8 And their dead bodies shall lie in the street of the great city, which spiritually is called Sodom and Egypt, where also our Lord was crucified.
9 And they of the people and kindreds and tongues and nations shall see their dead bodies three days and an half, and shall not suffer their dead bodies to be put in graves.
10 And they that dwell upon the earth shall rejoice over them, and make merry, and shall send gifts one to another; because these two prophets tormented them that dwelt on the earth.
11 And after three days and an half the spirit of life from God entered into them, and they stood upon their feet; and great fear fell upon them which saw them.
12 And they heard a great voice from heaven saying unto them, Come up hither. And they ascended up to heaven in a cloud; and their enemies beheld them.
13 And the same hour was there a great earthquake, and the tenth part of the city fell, and in the earthquake were slain of men seven thousand: and the remnant were affrighted, and gave glory to the God of heaven.
14 The second woe is past; and, behold, the third woe cometh quickly.
15 And the seventh angel sounded; and there were great voices in heaven, saying, The kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord, and of his Christ; and he shall reign for ever and ever.
16 And the four and twenty elders, which sat before God on their seats, fell upon their faces, and worshipped God,
17 Saying, We give thee thanks, O Lord God Almighty, which art, and wast, and art to come; because thou hast taken to thee thy great power, and hast reigned.
18 And the nations were angry, and thy wrath is come, and the time of the dead, that they should be judged, and that thou shouldest give reward unto thy servants the prophets, and to the saints, and them that fear thy name, small and great; and shouldest destroy them which destroy the earth.
19 And the temple of God was opened in heaven, and there was seen in his temple the ark of his testament: and there were lightnings, and voices, and thunderings, and an earthquake, and great hail.
 

GraceAndTruth

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Sep 28, 2015
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#35
If people were more educated in the English language, they would better understand the nuances of scripture. I blame public school educations for this as they have gone to the dogs since the 1960's.

In reading scripture and to keep on denying what one does not comprehend, or doesn't want to comprehend even after it is pointed out IN THE CONTEXT,..... makes oneself look like a troll who only wants to argue

And to not acknowledge what is plainly written and defined by God, in favor of a SUPPOSED meaning ascribed by the infinite mind of a man....is to do injury to the Word.

When it comes to Revelation it is important to read the entire book first, then with Chapter 1 start building your precepts, knowing that you will be dealing with language in the literal, symbolic, metaphor, simile etc that will tax the discernment of even the most astute bible scholar.

The whore, dragon, beast(s), horns, heads....etc etc etc........all have meaning which John was conveying to HIS 7 churches in Asia Minor..(churches he started) so THEY would be prepared for tribulation. His intended audience would understand without question just who, what and where John is referring to. So reading it from that point in history gives some understanding.
 

Truth7t7

Well-known member
May 19, 2020
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#36
If people were more educated in the English language, they would better understand the nuances of scripture. I blame public school educations for this as they have gone to the dogs since the 1960's.

In reading scripture and to keep on denying what one does not comprehend, or doesn't want to comprehend even after it is pointed out IN THE CONTEXT,..... makes oneself look like a troll who only wants to argue

And to not acknowledge what is plainly written and defined by God, in favor of a SUPPOSED meaning ascribed by the infinite mind of a man....is to do injury to the Word.

When it comes to Revelation it is important to read the entire book first, then with Chapter 1 start building your precepts, knowing that you will be dealing with language in the literal, symbolic, metaphor, simile etc that will tax the discernment of even the most astute bible scholar.

The whore, dragon, beast(s), horns, heads....etc etc etc........all have meaning which John was conveying to HIS 7 churches in Asia Minor..(churches he started) so THEY would be prepared for tribulation. His intended audience would understand without question just who, what and where John is referring to. So reading it from that point in history gives some understanding.
Education, Trolls, 7 Churches In Asia, What's The Argument In Relationship To The OP?
 

GraceAndTruth

Well-known member
Sep 28, 2015
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#37
Education, Trolls, 7 Churches In Asia, What's The Argument In Relationship To The OP?
Don't you practice these things? No matter what scripture is presented to you for correction of your view, you never acknowledge it and don't believe you even read it.

It IS possible for you to be wrong occasionally. I just changed my position on the "woman" from a recent Jerusalem I had agreed with at one time.....to Rome (which was on a study I had done 6 years ago and the re-reading of that portion of REvelation I agreed with my old study.
 

posthuman

Senior Member
Jul 31, 2013
37,843
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#38
Revelation 17-18 represent a continous reading, talking about (Mystery Babylon) this implies its not the literal historical Babylon, it's a (Mystery) with clues on the identity?

Revelation 17:5KJV
5 And upon her forehead was a name written, Mystery, Babylon The Great, The Mother Of Harlots And Abominations Of The Earth.

Jerusalem Upon This Earth Is Removed, Revelation Chapter 11 Below Shows the Events Leading To Its Final Destruction, And That Of This Existing World, It Will Be Replaced With The New Jerusalem, Heaven, And Earth

Behold I Make All Things New

Revelation 11 King James Version (KJV)
11 And there was given me a reed like unto a rod: and the angel stood, saying, Rise, and measure the temple of God, and the altar, and them that worship therein.
2 But the court which is without the temple leave out, and measure it not; for it is given unto the Gentiles: and the holy city shall they tread under foot forty and two months.
3 And I will give power unto my two witnesses, and they shall prophesy a thousand two hundred and threescore days, clothed in sackcloth.
4 These are the two olive trees, and the two candlesticks standing before the God of the earth.
5 And if any man will hurt them, fire proceedeth out of their mouth, and devoureth their enemies: and if any man will hurt them, he must in this manner be killed.
6 These have power to shut heaven, that it rain not in the days of their prophecy: and have power over waters to turn them to blood, and to smite the earth with all plagues, as often as they will.
7 And when they shall have finished their testimony, the beast that ascendeth out of the bottomless pit shall make war against them, and shall overcome them, and kill them.
8 And their dead bodies shall lie in the street of the great city, which spiritually is called Sodom and Egypt, where also our Lord was crucified.
9 And they of the people and kindreds and tongues and nations shall see their dead bodies three days and an half, and shall not suffer their dead bodies to be put in graves.
10 And they that dwell upon the earth shall rejoice over them, and make merry, and shall send gifts one to another; because these two prophets tormented them that dwelt on the earth.
11 And after three days and an half the spirit of life from God entered into them, and they stood upon their feet; and great fear fell upon them which saw them.
12 And they heard a great voice from heaven saying unto them, Come up hither. And they ascended up to heaven in a cloud; and their enemies beheld them.
13 And the same hour was there a great earthquake, and the tenth part of the city fell, and in the earthquake were slain of men seven thousand: and the remnant were affrighted, and gave glory to the God of heaven.
14 The second woe is past; and, behold, the third woe cometh quickly.
15 And the seventh angel sounded; and there were great voices in heaven, saying, The kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord, and of his Christ; and he shall reign for ever and ever.
16 And the four and twenty elders, which sat before God on their seats, fell upon their faces, and worshipped God,
17 Saying, We give thee thanks, O Lord God Almighty, which art, and wast, and art to come; because thou hast taken to thee thy great power, and hast reigned.
18 And the nations were angry, and thy wrath is come, and the time of the dead, that they should be judged, and that thou shouldest give reward unto thy servants the prophets, and to the saints, and them that fear thy name, small and great; and shouldest destroy them which destroy the earth.
19 And the temple of God was opened in heaven, and there was seen in his temple the ark of his testament: and there were lightnings, and voices, and thunderings, and an earthquake, and great hail.
thanks

but i don't see where Revelation 11 says Jerusalem will be removed from being a city?
like it says about Babylon in Revelation 18?
and here it says Jerusalem is spiritually called Sodom & Egypt -- why? is it therefore spiritually true that Egypt = Babylon and Sodom = Babylon, spiritually?
 

posthuman

Senior Member
Jul 31, 2013
37,843
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#39
When it comes to Revelation it is important to read the entire book first, then with Chapter 1 start building your precepts, knowing that you will be dealing with language in the literal, symbolic, metaphor, simile etc that will tax the discernment of even the most astute bible scholar.
that's true yes :)

and IMO i think we need to know everything about Daniel & Joel, too, before we can even begin to crack Revelation.
 

Truth7t7

Well-known member
May 19, 2020
7,685
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#40
Don't you practice these things? No matter what scripture is presented to you for correction of your view, you never acknowledge it and don't believe you even read it.

It IS possible for you to be wrong occasionally. I just changed my position on the "woman" from a recent Jerusalem I had agreed with at one time.....to Rome (which was on a study I had done 6 years ago and the re-reading of that portion of REvelation I agreed with my old study.
Thanks for the response, yes I have been known to be wrong, just ask my wife,I read your responses, sometimes twice :)

You claim Rome is the woman, and Caesar is the beast riding this woman, I disagree

I openly pointed to the original OP and the fact that Rome wasn't present on earth to be guilty of the "Prophets Blood" as seen as an identifier of the woman in Rev 18:24

I openly showed that Matthew 23:23-37 interprets the woman seen in Rev 18:24

I disagree that Rome is the woman, and that Emperor Caesar was the Beast riding this woman.