Jerusalem Is The Whore, Mystery Babylon The Great, The Seven Hilled City

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posthuman

Senior Member
Jul 31, 2013
37,980
13,627
113
#41
Revelation 17-18 represent a continous reading, talking about (Mystery Babylon) this implies its not the literal historical Babylon, it's a (Mystery) with clues on the identity?

Revelation 17:5KJV
5 And upon her forehead was a name written, Mystery, Babylon The Great, The Mother Of Harlots And Abominations Of The Earth.

Jerusalem Upon This Earth Is Removed, Revelation Chapter 11 Below Shows the Events Leading To Its Final Destruction, And That Of This Existing World, It Will Be Replaced With The New Jerusalem, Heaven, And Earth

Behold I Make All Things New

Revelation 11 King James Version (KJV)
11 And there was given me a reed like unto a rod: and the angel stood, saying, Rise, and measure the temple of God, and the altar, and them that worship therein.
2 But the court which is without the temple leave out, and measure it not; for it is given unto the Gentiles: and the holy city shall they tread under foot forty and two months.
3 And I will give power unto my two witnesses, and they shall prophesy a thousand two hundred and threescore days, clothed in sackcloth.
4 These are the two olive trees, and the two candlesticks standing before the God of the earth.
5 And if any man will hurt them, fire proceedeth out of their mouth, and devoureth their enemies: and if any man will hurt them, he must in this manner be killed.
6 These have power to shut heaven, that it rain not in the days of their prophecy: and have power over waters to turn them to blood, and to smite the earth with all plagues, as often as they will.
7 And when they shall have finished their testimony, the beast that ascendeth out of the bottomless pit shall make war against them, and shall overcome them, and kill them.
8 And their dead bodies shall lie in the street of the great city, which spiritually is called Sodom and Egypt, where also our Lord was crucified.
9 And they of the people and kindreds and tongues and nations shall see their dead bodies three days and an half, and shall not suffer their dead bodies to be put in graves.
10 And they that dwell upon the earth shall rejoice over them, and make merry, and shall send gifts one to another; because these two prophets tormented them that dwelt on the earth.
11 And after three days and an half the spirit of life from God entered into them, and they stood upon their feet; and great fear fell upon them which saw them.
12 And they heard a great voice from heaven saying unto them, Come up hither. And they ascended up to heaven in a cloud; and their enemies beheld them.
13 And the same hour was there a great earthquake, and the tenth part of the city fell, and in the earthquake were slain of men seven thousand: and the remnant were affrighted, and gave glory to the God of heaven.
14 The second woe is past; and, behold, the third woe cometh quickly.
15 And the seventh angel sounded; and there were great voices in heaven, saying, The kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord, and of his Christ; and he shall reign for ever and ever.
16 And the four and twenty elders, which sat before God on their seats, fell upon their faces, and worshipped God,
17 Saying, We give thee thanks, O Lord God Almighty, which art, and wast, and art to come; because thou hast taken to thee thy great power, and hast reigned.
18 And the nations were angry, and thy wrath is come, and the time of the dead, that they should be judged, and that thou shouldest give reward unto thy servants the prophets, and to the saints, and them that fear thy name, small and great; and shouldest destroy them which destroy the earth.
19 And the temple of God was opened in heaven, and there was seen in his temple the ark of his testament: and there were lightnings, and voices, and thunderings, and an earthquake, and great hail.
in Revelation 18 it says people from all over the world, merchants in particular, will mourn over the destruction of that city called Babylon.

i don't get how it can be talking about Jerusalem only being utterly removed from the earth when the earth itself and everything in it is dissolved and a new one created, if all the earth is still there after it is removed from being a city, mourning its destruction??
 

Truth7t7

Well-known member
May 19, 2020
7,685
2,496
113
#42
thanks

but i don't see where Revelation 11 says Jerusalem will be removed from being a city?
like it says about Babylon in Revelation 18?
and here it says Jerusalem is spiritually called Sodom & Egypt -- why? is it therefore spiritually true that Egypt = Babylon and Sodom = Babylon, spiritually?
If you look at revelation chapter 11, the final judgement takes place in verse 18 below, in verse 16 you see the great earthquake and hail

This represents the end of this world by fire, and the final judgement

Revelation 11:14-19KJV
14 The second woe is past; and, behold, the third woe cometh quickly.
15 And the seventh angel sounded; and there were great voices in heaven, saying, The kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord, and of his Christ; and he shall reign for ever and ever.
16 And the four and twenty elders, which sat before God on their seats, fell upon their faces, and worshipped God,
17 Saying, We give thee thanks, O Lord God Almighty, which art, and wast, and art to come; because thou hast taken to thee thy great power, and hast reigned.
18 And the nations were angry, and thy wrath is come, and the time of the dead, that they should be judged, and that thou shouldest give reward unto thy servants the prophets, and to the saints, and them that fear thy name, small and great; and shouldest destroy them which destroy the earth.
19 And the temple of God was opened in heaven, and there was seen in his temple the ark of his testament: and there were lightnings, and voices, and thunderings, and an earthquake, and great hail.
 

Truth7t7

Well-known member
May 19, 2020
7,685
2,496
113
#43
in Revelation 18 it says people from all over the world, merchants in particular, will mourn over the destruction of that city called Babylon.

i don't get how it can be talking about Jerusalem only being utterly removed from the earth when the earth itself and everything in it is dissolved and a new one created, if all the earth is still there after it is removed from being a city, mourning its destruction??
Possibly it could be speaking of the future time of the gentiles during the 3.5 year tribulation and Jerusalem as seen below, this precedes the second coming in fire and Final judgement?

Luke 21:20-28KJV
20 And when ye shall see Jerusalem compassed with armies, then know that the desolation thereof is nigh.
21 Then let them which are in Judaea flee to the mountains; and let them which are in the midst of it depart out; and let not them that are in the countries enter thereinto.
22 For these be the days of vengeance, that all things which are written may be fulfilled.
23 But woe unto them that are with child, and to them that give suck, in those days! for there shall be great distress in the land, and wrath upon this people.
24 And they shall fall by the edge of the sword, and shall be led away captive into all nations: and Jerusalem shall be trodden down of the Gentiles, until the times of the Gentiles be fulfilled.
25 And there shall be signs in the sun, and in the moon, and in the stars; and upon the earth distress of nations, with perplexity; the sea and the waves roaring;
26 Men's hearts failing them for fear, and for looking after those things which are coming on the earth: for the powers of heaven shall be shaken.
27 And then shall they see the Son of man coming in a cloud with power and great glory.
28 And when these things begin to come to pass, then look up, and lift up your heads; for your redemption draweth nigh.
 

jb

Senior Member
Feb 27, 2010
4,940
591
113
#44
"The city, the great one" is the city of Jerusalem."

The emphatic and exclusive phase, “the city, the great one,” which describes “Babylon” in Rev14v8, 16v19, 17v18, 18v10,16,18,19,21; is said, in Rev 11v8, to be the place “where also our Lord was crucified,” that is, Jerusalem. Those who say that “Babylon” is Rome, admit that it is very difficult to ignore this plain statement that “the city, the great one” is Jerusalem. They admit that they lay aside the revealed facts of God’s Word for their own opinion. In Rev 11v8, the name “Sodom” is given to Jerusalem to show the rioting in the sins of the flesh, and the going after “strange flesh.” Dan 2v43, Gen 6v2, Jude v6, Rev 12v9, Ezek 16v45-56. The name of “Egypt” is given to Jerusalem to show that her king sets himself forth as God, and rejects all the mighty manifestations of God's power through God's servants. Just as in the time of Moses and Pharaoh there will be a violent conflict between the powers of good and evil. 2Tim 3v8, Matt 23v31, 24v11,24, John 8v44. The name of “Babylon” is given to Jerusalem to show its spiritual condition under Antichrist, it's worship of false Gods, its hatred of God, its sinful luxuries, and the extent of Antichrist's power and kingdom. Dan 2v39, Rev 17v4, 18v2,3,9-19. The adjective “megale,” great, is used in connection with Babylon every time it occurs in Revelation. Rev 14v8, 16v19, 17v5, 18v2,10,21. “Babylon” is also called “the great whore,” who is drunk with the blood of saints and martyrs, for she has gone after many lovers, and like a harlot has led many into sin, when she should have been leading people to God. Those who say that the Scarlet Woman cannot represent Jerusalem, because she is called a whore, and not an adulteress, ignore the fact that in Isaiah 1v21, God said that “the faithful city” had become a harlot. Jer 2v20,3v1,9. In Nahum 3v4, God also said that wicked Nineveh was a harlot, however, Jerusalem's sin was far worse, because they sinned against the light that God had given them. In Ezek 16v15,32,45-49,56, God calls Jerusalem the sister of Sodom to show the people's depravity and sin, a description, which is repeated in Rev11v8. The woman's gorgeous robes cover abominable wickedness. She is clothed in costly robes, and decked with gold, precious stones and pearls, but she is still a harlot, and her golden cup is full of abominations. She is drunk with the blood of the saints, and is inspired by the Beast, who is full of blasphemy, to murder those who worship the true God. Here the city of God has become the city of Satan and Antichrist, a city full of the vilest doctrines and practices. In Jer 51v7, ancient Babylon is said to be a cup in God’s hand that made the earth drunk and mad. Jerusalem becomes the centre of the worship of Satan and Antichrist, and the murderous persecution of the Church, and like ancient Babylon, corrupts many nations with her idolatry. Rev 14v8, 17v1-6,18, 19v2.

These names give a very graphic description of the spiritual condition of Jerusalem under Antichrist; its abominable wickedness, idolatry, hatred of God, and its ultimate judgement by God. The city of God becomes the city of the Devil, and a partaker of the sins that resulted in the destruction of the other kingdoms that make up the head of the Beast. Jerusalem’s trust in Antichrist will bring about its destruction, it will again taste the fruit of her unfaithfulness to God, and will be mercilessly ruled by men who are under Satan’s control. Rev 17v5,16. Rome has never been looked upon as God's wife, so she can never have been His unfaithful wife; this is the sin and name that the prophets hurl against Jerusalem. Isaiah 1v21, 57v8, Jer 2v20, 3v1-25, 4v30, 11v15, 13v27, Ezek Chapters 16, 22 and 23.

Babylon has committed the sins which are exclusively Jerusalem's sins."

Babylon is said to have shed the blood of saints, martyrs, apostles, and prophets. Rev 17v6, 18v6,20,24. This is the righteous blood that our Lord said Jerusalem had, and would shed. Matt 23v29-34. Both the Old Testament and the New Testament saints suffered at the hands of apostate Jews. How can people say that apostate Jews, who kill the children of God, reject Christ and His Gospel, and accept Antichrist and partake of his wickedness, are the elect of Matt 24? Christ called such Jews serpents and vipers, and children of the Devil, and says that they are destined for the lake of fire. Matt 23v33, John 8v43-45, Rev 14v9-12. The Scriptures tell us that the only people who will not be deceived and will not follow Antichrist in the countries under his sway, will be those who are saved. Rev 13v8.

The destruction of "Babylon" is the destruction of Jerusalem."

The destruction of “Babylon” by Antichrist in Rev 17v16,17, occurs just before the end of the age, and cannot be any other than the destruction of Jerusalem just before the second coming of the Lord Jesus. It coincides exactly in time, place, and in fulfilment of prophecy. Matt 24v28, Luke 21v20-24, Rev 14v8,19,20, Zech 14v1, Joel 3 all.

Antichrist rules from Jerusalem in the great tribulation."

The fact that “Babylon” rules over the kings of the earth is another proof that she is Jerusalem, for Antichrist rules his kingdom from the Temple at Jerusalem, and sets up his image there. Rev 13v14,15, 17v18, 2Thess 2v3,4, Matt 24v15, Dan 9v27, 11v31, 12v11. The Scriptures we have examined prove that “Babylon” is Jerusalem, not Rome, and that Antichrist's rule is centred around Jerusalem, not Rome.

The Kingdom Of The Antichrist Is Not Based On Rome

Rome is not the city of Babylon named in Revelation. The Antichrist has been linked with Rome on the basis that the seven hills mentioned in Rev 17v9, are the seven hills of Rome. Christians have felt that the great persecutions of the Church by the Roman state and Roman Church, also confirms their identification of the harlot city of Babylon in Rev 17, with the city of Rome.

The seven mountains are ruled by seven kings, and are seven kingdoms

When the Scriptures speak of a mountain in a symbolic prophetical way, it represents a kingdom. Dan 2v35,44,45, Isaiah 2v2, Rev 13v1,7 with Rev 17v12,17. These seven hills are seven different kingdoms, over which seven kings rule.

The Antichrist is the seventh and eighth head of the Beast

We are told in Rev 17v10 that the final Antichrist is the seventh and eighth head of the Beast, and that Rome, the sixth head, was in power in John's time, so the final Antichrist and beast cannot be Rome. We are told in Rev 13v3 and 17v8, that Antichrist appears to imitate Christ's resurrection from the dead. We read in Rev 17v10,11, that before his death Antichrist is the seventh king, and after his resurrection he is the eighth king, when he becomes even more wicked, merciless, ruthless, and cruel. Antichrist is possessed and dominated by Satan, and puts all his desires and plans into operation; he will be the most evil and most malevolent and pitiless man, that the world has ever seen. Dan 8v24, Rev 13v4. In John's time it says that the seventh head of the beast of Rev 17, had yet to come, and when it did it would only last a short time.

The Antichrist is also spoken of as "the king of the North"

The kingdom of Antichrist is said to be north of Palestine in Dan 11v40 to 12v7, this kingdom cannot be Rome, for Rome is certainly not north of Palestine. We are also told in Daniel 8, that the Antichrist comes out of part of the Grecian empire north of Palestine. The legs of iron of Dan 2v33,40-43 and the fourth beast of Dan 7v7,8,17-28 were only partially fulfilled by Rome. The stress of these prophecies was upon the fourth kingdom and last days, as Daniel said to Nebuchadnezzar; “God hath made known to the king Nebuchadnezzar what shall be in the latter days.” Dan 2v28. The stone cut without hands, Christ and His kingdom, fell on the feet of the image and destroyed it. Dan 2v35,44,45. Antichrist will try to fight Jesus at His coming, and will be destroyed by Him for his gross wickedness and impenitence. Rev 17v11-14, 19v19-21, Dan 8v25,26.
 

Truth7t7

Well-known member
May 19, 2020
7,685
2,496
113
#45
"The city, the great one" is the city of Jerusalem."

The emphatic and exclusive phase, “the city, the great one,” which describes “Babylon” in Rev14v8, 16v19, 17v18, 18v10,16,18,19,21; is said, in Rev 11v8, to be the place “where also our Lord was crucified,” that is, Jerusalem. Those who say that “Babylon” is Rome, admit that it is very difficult to ignore this plain statement that “the city, the great one” is Jerusalem. They admit that they lay aside the revealed facts of God’s Word for their own opinion. In Rev 11v8, the name “Sodom” is given to Jerusalem to show the rioting in the sins of the flesh, and the going after “strange flesh.” Dan 2v43, Gen 6v2, Jude v6, Rev 12v9, Ezek 16v45-56. The name of “Egypt” is given to Jerusalem to show that her king sets himself forth as God, and rejects all the mighty manifestations of God's power through God's servants. Just as in the time of Moses and Pharaoh there will be a violent conflict between the powers of good and evil. 2Tim 3v8, Matt 23v31, 24v11,24, John 8v44. The name of “Babylon” is given to Jerusalem to show its spiritual condition under Antichrist, it's worship of false Gods, its hatred of God, its sinful luxuries, and the extent of Antichrist's power and kingdom. Dan 2v39, Rev 17v4, 18v2,3,9-19. The adjective “megale,” great, is used in connection with Babylon every time it occurs in Revelation. Rev 14v8, 16v19, 17v5, 18v2,10,21. “Babylon” is also called “the great whore,” who is drunk with the blood of saints and martyrs, for she has gone after many lovers, and like a harlot has led many into sin, when she should have been leading people to God. Those who say that the Scarlet Woman cannot represent Jerusalem, because she is called a whore, and not an adulteress, ignore the fact that in Isaiah 1v21, God said that “the faithful city” had become a harlot. Jer 2v20,3v1,9. In Nahum 3v4, God also said that wicked Nineveh was a harlot, however, Jerusalem's sin was far worse, because they sinned against the light that God had given them. In Ezek 16v15,32,45-49,56, God calls Jerusalem the sister of Sodom to show the people's depravity and sin, a description, which is repeated in Rev11v8. The woman's gorgeous robes cover abominable wickedness. She is clothed in costly robes, and decked with gold, precious stones and pearls, but she is still a harlot, and her golden cup is full of abominations. She is drunk with the blood of the saints, and is inspired by the Beast, who is full of blasphemy, to murder those who worship the true God. Here the city of God has become the city of Satan and Antichrist, a city full of the vilest doctrines and practices. In Jer 51v7, ancient Babylon is said to be a cup in God’s hand that made the earth drunk and mad. Jerusalem becomes the centre of the worship of Satan and Antichrist, and the murderous persecution of the Church, and like ancient Babylon, corrupts many nations with her idolatry. Rev 14v8, 17v1-6,18, 19v2.

These names give a very graphic description of the spiritual condition of Jerusalem under Antichrist; its abominable wickedness, idolatry, hatred of God, and its ultimate judgement by God. The city of God becomes the city of the Devil, and a partaker of the sins that resulted in the destruction of the other kingdoms that make up the head of the Beast. Jerusalem’s trust in Antichrist will bring about its destruction, it will again taste the fruit of her unfaithfulness to God, and will be mercilessly ruled by men who are under Satan’s control. Rev 17v5,16. Rome has never been looked upon as God's wife, so she can never have been His unfaithful wife; this is the sin and name that the prophets hurl against Jerusalem. Isaiah 1v21, 57v8, Jer 2v20, 3v1-25, 4v30, 11v15, 13v27, Ezek Chapters 16, 22 and 23.

Babylon has committed the sins which are exclusively Jerusalem's sins."

Babylon is said to have shed the blood of saints, martyrs, apostles, and prophets. Rev 17v6, 18v6,20,24. This is the righteous blood that our Lord said Jerusalem had, and would shed. Matt 23v29-34. Both the Old Testament and the New Testament saints suffered at the hands of apostate Jews. How can people say that apostate Jews, who kill the children of God, reject Christ and His Gospel, and accept Antichrist and partake of his wickedness, are the elect of Matt 24? Christ called such Jews serpents and vipers, and children of the Devil, and says that they are destined for the lake of fire. Matt 23v33, John 8v43-45, Rev 14v9-12. The Scriptures tell us that the only people who will not be deceived and will not follow Antichrist in the countries under his sway, will be those who are saved. Rev 13v8.

The destruction of "Babylon" is the destruction of Jerusalem."

The destruction of “Babylon” by Antichrist in Rev 17v16,17, occurs just before the end of the age, and cannot be any other than the destruction of Jerusalem just before the second coming of the Lord Jesus. It coincides exactly in time, place, and in fulfilment of prophecy. Matt 24v28, Luke 21v20-24, Rev 14v8,19,20, Zech 14v1, Joel 3 all.

Antichrist rules from Jerusalem in the great tribulation."

The fact that “Babylon” rules over the kings of the earth is another proof that she is Jerusalem, for Antichrist rules his kingdom from the Temple at Jerusalem, and sets up his image there. Rev 13v14,15, 17v18, 2Thess 2v3,4, Matt 24v15, Dan 9v27, 11v31, 12v11. The Scriptures we have examined prove that “Babylon” is Jerusalem, not Rome, and that Antichrist's rule is centred around Jerusalem, not Rome.

The Kingdom Of The Antichrist Is Not Based On Rome

Rome is not the city of Babylon named in Revelation. The Antichrist has been linked with Rome on the basis that the seven hills mentioned in Rev 17v9, are the seven hills of Rome. Christians have felt that the great persecutions of the Church by the Roman state and Roman Church, also confirms their identification of the harlot city of Babylon in Rev 17, with the city of Rome.

The seven mountains are ruled by seven kings, and are seven kingdoms

When the Scriptures speak of a mountain in a symbolic prophetical way, it represents a kingdom. Dan 2v35,44,45, Isaiah 2v2, Rev 13v1,7 with Rev 17v12,17. These seven hills are seven different kingdoms, over which seven kings rule.

The Antichrist is the seventh and eighth head of the Beast

We are told in Rev 17v10 that the final Antichrist is the seventh and eighth head of the Beast, and that Rome, the sixth head, was in power in John's time, so the final Antichrist and beast cannot be Rome. We are told in Rev 13v3 and 17v8, that Antichrist appears to imitate Christ's resurrection from the dead. We read in Rev 17v10,11, that before his death Antichrist is the seventh king, and after his resurrection he is the eighth king, when he becomes even more wicked, merciless, ruthless, and cruel. Antichrist is possessed and dominated by Satan, and puts all his desires and plans into operation; he will be the most evil and most malevolent and pitiless man, that the world has ever seen. Dan 8v24, Rev 13v4. In John's time it says that the seventh head of the beast of Rev 17, had yet to come, and when it did it would only last a short time.

The Antichrist is also spoken of as "the king of the North"

The kingdom of Antichrist is said to be north of Palestine in Dan 11v40 to 12v7, this kingdom cannot be Rome, for Rome is certainly not north of Palestine. We are also told in Daniel 8, that the Antichrist comes out of part of the Grecian empire north of Palestine. The legs of iron of Dan 2v33,40-43 and the fourth beast of Dan 7v7,8,17-28 were only partially fulfilled by Rome. The stress of these prophecies was upon the fourth kingdom and last days, as Daniel said to Nebuchadnezzar; “God hath made known to the king Nebuchadnezzar what shall be in the latter days.” Dan 2v28. The stone cut without hands, Christ and His kingdom, fell on the feet of the image and destroyed it. Dan 2v35,44,45. Antichrist will try to fight Jesus at His coming, and will be destroyed by Him for his gross wickedness and impenitence. Rev 17v11-14, 19v19-21, Dan 8v25,26.
Good post, I pretty much agree with 98%

The central focus is Jerusalem not Rome

Yes (The Great City) is Jerusalem not Rome

Yes Jerusalem will be trodden under foot for 3.5 years, not Rome

Yes the world armies will be gathered towards Jerusalem not Rome

Yes the Lord will return to the battle against the beast at Armageddon -Jerusalem not Rome

Yes Jerusalem Is Mystery Babylon The Great, Not Rome
 

GraceAndTruth

Well-known member
Sep 28, 2015
2,031
637
113
#46
Thanks for the response, yes I have been known to be wrong, just ask my wife,I read your responses, sometimes twice :)

You claim Rome is the woman, and Caesar is the beast riding this woman, I disagree

I openly pointed to the original OP and the fact that Rome wasn't present on earth to be guilty of the "Prophets Blood" as seen as an identifier of the woman in Rev 18:24

I openly showed that Matthew 23:23-37 interprets the woman seen in Rev 18:24

I disagree that Rome is the woman, and that Emperor Caesar was the Beast riding this woman.

I openly shows Rome/Nero shed the blood of prophets PAUL and PETER, not to mention hundrerds of saints...IN ROME
Matthew 23:23-37 Do you realize that most of the OT prophets died in other places? Most by non-Jews. some in Israel, some in other countries.
So you disagree, but you have yet to prove it is Jerusalem.
I have addressed your opinion with facts.
 
4

49

Guest
#47
What are you questioning? Rome turned on Jerusalem as the beast does the Harlot in Rev. The Harlot is a bride or married. Feel free to ask.
That is the who're riding the beast.

All the blood ever shed on earth points to Cain and Eve. Queen on her throne.
Cain was raised by a mother who considered herself as the generator of Man.

The above....

Thanks!
 

Truth7t7

Well-known member
May 19, 2020
7,685
2,496
113
#48
I openly shows Rome/Nero shed the blood of prophets PAUL and PETER, not to mention hundrerds of saints...IN ROME
Matthew 23:23-37 Do you realize that most of the OT prophets died in other places? Most by non-Jews. some in Israel, some in other countries.
So you disagree, but you have yet to prove it is Jerusalem.
I have addressed your opinion with facts.
Thanks for your interest and response!

Rev 18:24 below states that this woman is guilty of all that were slain upon the earth, how do you account for Rome formed in 67BC accounting for this, all those that died pre 67BC?

The Roman Empire didnt exist to be guilty of the Prophets blood seen below, Jerusalem did.

Revelation 18:24KJV
24 And in her was found the blood of prophets, and of saints, and of all that were slain upon the earth.

Matthew 23:29-37KJV
29 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! because ye build the tombs of the prophets, and garnish the sepulchres of the righteous,
30 And say, If we had been in the days of our fathers, we would not have been partakers with them in the blood of the prophets.
31 Wherefore ye be witnesses unto yourselves, that ye are the children of them which killed the prophets.
32 Fill ye up then the measure of your fathers.
33 Ye serpents, ye generation of vipers, how can ye escape the damnation of hell?
34 Wherefore, behold, I send unto you prophets, and wise men, and scribes: and some of them ye shall kill and crucify; and some of them shall ye scourge in your synagogues, and persecute them from city to city:
35 That upon you may come all the righteous blood shed upon the earth, from the blood of righteous Abel unto the blood of Zacharias son of Barachias, whom ye slew between the temple and the altar.
36 Verily I say unto you, All these things shall come upon this generation.
37 O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, thou that killest the prophets, and stonest them which are sent unto thee, how often would I have gathered thy children together, even as a hen gathereth her chickens under her wings, and ye would not!
 
Aug 14, 2019
1,374
307
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#49
Revelation 18:21
Then a mighty angel took up a stone like a great millstone and threw [it] into the sea, saying, "Thus with violence the great city Babylon shall be thrown down, and shall not be found anymore.

Will Jerusalem be taken away and not found anymore?
Jerusalem and the Jewish Temple mean the same thing often in the bible. I don't think we will ever see animal sacrifices and such ever again. I doubt the New Jerusalem that comes down from heaven will either. Paul even goes so far as to refer to the two as separate women. Paul said that the New Jerusalem equates to the mother of the promised child and is our mother as well. The one that was destroyed by violence equates to the child of the concubine according to Paul . Paul referred to her as a slave. We aren't the children of slavery say's Paul. all that being so, I think it is accurate to say we won't see that Jerusalem again.
 
Aug 14, 2019
1,374
307
83
#50
That is the who're riding the beast.

All the blood ever shed on earth points to Cain and Eve. Queen on her throne.
Cain was raised by a mother who considered herself as the generator of Man.

The above....

Thanks!
aah. Ok. All the blood ever shed on earth is on her hands. Seems an impossibility until you think of Abel's blood . When Cain killed Abel All the blood ever shed on earth happened in that one place and time. I haven't seen eve consciously riding that beast but I do see that the maternal environment he was raised in was askew from the natural order God intends. See what she said when Cain was born " I have produced a man with the help of God." At that time nothing is said about the father's role in reproduction. God is her helpmeet instead of being His helpmeet .In revelation the whore is punished for for thinking in her heart that she is queen on her throne and doesn't lack a husband and wil never suffer grief. That means she is head of the family not the husband and she will never be barren. That fits the maternal environment that Cain was raised imo. More importantly it fits the conditions only Eve can claim. Aft With Cain killing Abel we see the Beast and Christ and the first actual Gospel event at beginning of history..
Contrast that with what she said when Seth is born. " God has granted another offspring to replace Cain who killed Abel." Notice it isn't Abel who loses his proper place. There has been a great change in heart. She repented of her former view of the proper order. Furthermore we see that maternal environment is able to produced the image of the father. Adam became the father of a child in his own image and named him Seth in the beginning of Genesis Chapter 5. Eve put Adam in his proper place in her own heart by the time Seth is born.

It's my opinion that Adam had to show Eve that she wasn't the generating force of reproduction and accept that she was the passive force.. I think he obstained until she was convinced that she was wrong and repented of her matriarchy and wanted to establish the human family ordered in the way God intended.
 

posthuman

Senior Member
Jul 31, 2013
37,980
13,627
113
#51
aah. Ok. All the blood ever shed on earth is on her hands. Seems an impossibility until you think of Abel's blood . When Cain killed Abel All the blood ever shed on earth happened in that one place and time. I haven't seen eve consciously riding that beast but I do see that the maternal environment he was raised in was askew from the natural order God intends. See what she said when Cain was born " I have produced a man with the help of God." At that time nothing is said about the father's role in reproduction. God is her helpmeet instead of being His helpmeet .In revelation the whore is punished for for thinking in her heart that she is queen on her throne and doesn't lack a husband and wil never suffer grief. That means she is head of the family not the husband and she will never be barren. That fits the maternal environment that Cain was raised imo. More importantly it fits the conditions only Eve can claim. Aft With Cain killing Abel we see the Beast and Christ and the first actual Gospel event at beginning of history..
Contrast that with what she said when Seth is born. " God has granted another offspring to replace Cain who killed Abel." Notice it isn't Abel who loses his proper place. There has been a great change in heart. She repented of her former view of the proper order. Furthermore we see that maternal environment is able to produced the image of the father. Adam became the father of a child in his own image and named him Seth in the beginning of Genesis Chapter 5. Eve put Adam in his proper place in her own heart by the time Seth is born.

It's my opinion that Adam had to show Eve that she wasn't the generating force of reproduction and accept that she was the passive force.. I think he obstained until she was convinced that she was wrong and repented of her matriarchy and wanted to establish the human family ordered in the way God intended.
that's an interesting insight & perspective; thank you.

what about when Abel was born -- isn't his name after the word 'hebel' = vanity?
traditionally i have heard it said, she may have thought Cain was the promised seed - so she named him, 'acquired' or 'spear' saying he was given with the help of God. when Abel was born, the narrative goes, she must have realized Cain wasn't the promised seed, because now there are two sons; Cain isn't unique - so she names him 'vanity' or 'vapor'
 
Aug 14, 2019
1,374
307
83
#52
that's an interesting insight & perspective; thank you.

what about when Abel was born -- isn't his name after the word 'hebel' = vanity?
traditionally i have heard it said, she may have thought Cain was the promised seed - so she named him, 'acquired' or 'spear' saying he was given with the help of God. when Abel was born, the narrative goes, she must have realized Cain wasn't the promised seed, because now there are two sons; Cain isn't unique - so she names him 'vanity' or 'vapor'
That makes sense about Eve's thinking. She may have also thought She, like God, created Man. And that is so, Adam and Eve are doing just that. Abel would be in the back seat of that car but I think that's where dad was too. So much mystery to Abel's life. The earth opening it's mouth to receive his blood. There is alot to ponder. The earth opens it's mouth in Revelation and those dots connect. Those dots got range no doubt.
Abel kills the first born of his flock. Cain might take offense being the first born. I think that may be what took Cain's anger over the top. He identified with those first born Abel killed. Did Abel do that on purpose? Considering the narrative you mentioned it lines up nicely. There is so much There. Thank you for responding posthuman. Grace and Peace.
 

Truth7t7

Well-known member
May 19, 2020
7,685
2,496
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#53
(Jerusalem) is the whore, mystery Babylon the great.

(Jerusalem) is the seven hilled city, where the woman sits, not Rome as many falsely claim.

Revelation 17:9KJV
9 And here is the mind which hath wisdom. The seven heads are seven mountains, on which the woman sitteth.

List of cities claimed to be built on seven hills - Wikipedia
Jerusalem, Israel: Jerusalem's seven hills are Mount Scopus, Mount Olivet and the Mount of Corruption (all three are peaks in a mountain ridge that lies east of the Old City), Mount Ophel, the original Mount Zion, the New Mount Zion and the hill on which the Antonia Fortress was built.

The Roman Empire didnt exist to be guilty of the Prophets blood seen below, Jerusalem did.

Revelation 18:24KJV
24 And in her was found the blood of prophets, and of saints, and of all that were slain upon the earth.

Matthew 23:29-37KJV
29 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! because ye build the tombs of the prophets, and garnish the sepulchres of the righteous,
30 And say, If we had been in the days of our fathers, we would not have been partakers with them in the blood of the prophets.
31 Wherefore ye be witnesses unto yourselves, that ye are the children of them which killed the prophets.
32 Fill ye up then the measure of your fathers.
33 Ye serpents, ye generation of vipers, how can ye escape the damnation of hell?
34 Wherefore, behold, I send unto you prophets, and wise men, and scribes: and some of them ye shall kill and crucify; and some of them shall ye scourge in your synagogues, and persecute them from city to city:
35 That upon you may come all the righteous blood shed upon the earth, from the blood of righteous Abel unto the blood of Zacharias son of Barachias, whom ye slew between the temple and the altar.
36 Verily I say unto you, All these things shall come upon this generation.
37 O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, thou that killest the prophets, and stonest them which are sent unto thee, how often would I have gathered thy children together, even as a hen gathereth her chickens under her wings, and ye would not!
There you go
 

oyster67

Senior Member
May 24, 2014
11,887
8,705
113
#54
Eve. Queen on her throne.
Cain was raised by a mother who considered herself as the generator of Man. Head of the family. She is the mother of harlots. Idolatry continues in the line of Cain. Wherever the culture of idolatry reigns is Babylon. Then in Noah's son Ham.
Really? Just when we thought this thread couldn't get any weirder. One guess who gave the above post a thumbs up.:rolleyes:
 

Truth7t7

Well-known member
May 19, 2020
7,685
2,496
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#55
Really? Just when we thought this thread couldn't get any weirder. One guess who gave the above post a thumbs up.:rolleyes:
The smartest responder to the post, Butterflyyy
 
Aug 14, 2019
1,374
307
83
#56
Really? Just when we thought this thread couldn't get any weirder. One guess who gave the above post a thumbs up.:rolleyes:
Well, I won't deny that but is there reason to believe it's not true?
 

GraceAndTruth

Well-known member
Sep 28, 2015
2,031
637
113
#57
Well, I won't deny that but is there reason to believe it's not true?
Of course its not true. God made Adam the federal head of the church, He bears original sin.
Romans 5
12 Therefore, just as through one man sin entered into the world, and death through sin, and so death spread to all mankind, because all sinned— 13 for until the Law sin was in the world, but sin is not counted against anyone when there is no law. 14 Nevertheless death reigned from Adam until Moses, even over those who had not sinned in the likeness of the violation committed by Adam, who is a type of Him who was to come. (with Moses came the Law and the ability to obtain forgivness for sin by the blood of scapegoats et all.)
and
18 So then, as through one offense the result was condemnation to all mankind, so also through one act of righteousness the result was justification of life to all mankind. 19 For as through the one man’s disobedience the many were made sinners, so also through the obedience of the One the many will be made righteous.
 

Pilgrimshope

Well-known member
Sep 2, 2020
14,669
5,911
113
#58
(Jerusalem) is the whore, mystery Babylon the great.

(Jerusalem) is the seven hilled city, where the woman sits, not Rome as many falsely claim.

Revelation 17:9KJV
9 And here is the mind which hath wisdom. The seven heads are seven mountains, on which the woman sitteth.

List of cities claimed to be built on seven hills - Wikipedia
Jerusalem, Israel: Jerusalem's seven hills are Mount Scopus, Mount Olivet and the Mount of Corruption (all three are peaks in a mountain ridge that lies east of the Old City), Mount Ophel, the original Mount Zion, the New Mount Zion and the hill on which the Antonia Fortress was built.

The Roman Empire didnt exist to be guilty of the Prophets blood seen below, Jerusalem did.

Revelation 18:24KJV
24 And in her was found the blood of prophets, and of saints, and of all that were slain upon the earth.

Matthew 23:29-37KJV
29 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! because ye build the tombs of the prophets, and garnish the sepulchres of the righteous,
30 And say, If we had been in the days of our fathers, we would not have been partakers with them in the blood of the prophets.
31 Wherefore ye be witnesses unto yourselves, that ye are the children of them which killed the prophets.
32 Fill ye up then the measure of your fathers.
33 Ye serpents, ye generation of vipers, how can ye escape the damnation of hell?
34 Wherefore, behold, I send unto you prophets, and wise men, and scribes: and some of them ye shall kill and crucify; and some of them shall ye scourge in your synagogues, and persecute them from city to city:
35 That upon you may come all the righteous blood shed upon the earth, from the blood of righteous Abel unto the blood of Zacharias son of Barachias, whom ye slew between the temple and the altar.
36 Verily I say unto you, All these things shall come upon this generation.
37 O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, thou that killest the prophets, and stonest them which are sent unto thee, how often would I have gathered thy children together, even as a hen gathereth her chickens under her wings, and ye would not!
this may support your post

“And the names of them were Aholah the elder, and Aholibah her sister: and they were mine, and they bare sons and daughters. Thus were their names; Samaria is Aholah, and Jerusalem Aholibah. And Aholah played the harlot when she was mine; and she doted on her lovers, on the Assyrians her neighbours,

Thus she committed her whoredoms with them, with all them that were the chosen men of Assyria, and with all on whom she doted: with all their idols she defiled herself. Neither left she her whoredoms brought from Egypt: for in her youth they lay with her, and they bruised the breasts of her virginity, and poured their whoredom upon her. Wherefore I have delivered her into the hand of her lovers, into the hand of the Assyrians, upon whom she doted. These discovered her nakedness: they took her sons and her daughters, and slew her with the sword: and she became famous among women; for they had executed judgment upon her.

And when her sister Aholibah saw this, she was more corrupt in her inordinate love than she, and in her whoredoms more than her sister in her whoredoms.

She doted upon the Assyrians her neighbours, captains and rulers clothed most gorgeously, horsemen riding upon horses, all of them desirable young men.

Then I saw that she was defiled, that they took both one way, And that she increased her whoredoms: for when she saw men portrayed upon the wall, the images of the Chaldeans portrayed with vermilion,

And the Babylonians came to her into the bed of love, and they defiled her with their whoredom, and she was polluted with them, and her mind was alienated from them.

So she discovered her whoredoms, and discovered her nakedness: then my mind was alienated from her, like as my mind was alienated from her sister.

Yet she multiplied her whoredoms, in calling to remembrance the days of her youth, wherein she had played the harlot in the land of Egypt.

Therefore, O Aholibah, thus saith the Lord God; Behold, I will raise up thy lovers against thee, from whom thy mind is alienated, and I will bring them against thee on every side;”
‭‭Ezekiel‬ ‭23:4-5, 7-14, 17-19, 22‬ ‭

Read the rest of course ....so then you have Revelation

“And the ten horns which thou sawest upon the beast, these shall hate the whore, and shall make her desolate and naked, and shall eat her flesh, and burn her with fire. For God hath put in their hearts to fulfil his will, and to agree, and give their kingdom unto the beast, until the words of God shall be fulfilled.

And the woman which thou sawest is that great city, which reigneth over the kings of the earth.”
‭‭Revelation‬ ‭17:16-18‬ ‭KJV‬‬

the whore began as beautiful like Israel did

“And there appeared a great wonder in heaven; a woman clothed with the sun, and the moon under her feet, and upon her head a crown of twelve stars:

And she brought forth a man child, who was to rule all nations with a rod of iron: and her child was caught up unto God, and to his throne. And the woman fled into the wilderness, where she hath a place prepared of God, that they should feed her there a thousand two hundred and threescore days.

And when the dragon saw that he was cast unto the earth, he persecuted the woman which brought forth the man child. And to the woman were given two wings of a great eagle, that she might fly into the wilderness, into her place, where she is nourished for a time, and times, and half a time, from the face of the serpent.”
‭‭Revelation‬ ‭12:1, 5-6, 13-14‬ ‭

She flees into the wilderness the dragon pursues her later the beast made in the dragons image catches her And we see in the wilderness

“So he carried me away in the spirit into the wilderness: and I saw a woman sit upon a scarlet coloured beast, full of names of blasphemy, having seven heads and ten horns. And the woman was arrayed in purple and scarlet colour, and decked with gold and precious stones and pearls, having a golden cup in her hand full of abominations and filthiness of her fornication:

And upon her forehead was a name written, MYSTERY, BABYLON THE GREAT, THE MOTHER OF HARLOTS AND ABOMINATIONS OF THE EARTH.”
‭‭Revelation‬ ‭17:3-5‬ ‭KJV‬‬

her garments are changed from the glory it began with , she gave birth to the messiah and after he was taken up she was persecuted by the dragon through his agent the beast. And in the end the whore is riding upon corruption and an agency of Satan having started with the law and thier heritage and ending in a crucifixion of Gods son
 

Nebuchadnezzer

Well-known member
Feb 8, 2019
1,134
205
63
#59
Jerusalem Is The Whore, Mystery Babylon The Great.

Isaiah 57:3KJV
3 But draw near hither, ye sons of the sorceress, the seed of the adulterer and the whore.

The Dressing Of The Levitical Preisthood Is Clothing The Woman Of Purple, Scarlet, Gold, Precious Stones Delivered To Moses/Aaron

Revelation 17:4KJV
4 And the woman was arrayed in purple and scarlet colour, and decked with gold and precious stones and pearls, having a golden cup in her hand full of abominations and filthiness of her fornication:

Exodus 39:1-2 & 8-13KJV
1 And of the blue, and purple, and scarlet, they made cloths of service, to do service in the holy place, and made the holy garments for Aaron; as the Lord commanded Moses.
2 And he made the ephod of gold, blue, and purple, and scarlet, and fine twined linen.
Where is the priesthood today that performs sacrifices at the altar?
 

Truth7t7

Well-known member
May 19, 2020
7,685
2,496
113
#60
Where is the priesthood today that performs sacrifices at the altar?
What Does that have to do with historical fact, the high priest wore purple, scarlet, gold and Jewels this religious org is referred to in the feminine (Her) a woman

Scripture in Isaiah 66:1-4 below clearly shows a future house built in Jerusalem, with renewed animal sacrifice, that God calls an Abomination?

I believe the temple institute n Jerusalem has the priestly garments ready to go?

Temple Institute Priestly Garments

Isaiah 66:1-4KJV
Thus saith the Lord, The heaven is my throne, and the earth is my footstool: where is the house that ye build unto me? and where is the place of my rest?
2 For all those things hath mine hand made, and all those things have been, saith the Lord: but to this man will I look, even to him that is poor and of a contrite spirit, and trembleth at my word.
3 He that killeth an ox is as if he slew a man; he that sacrificeth a lamb, as if he cut off a dog's neck; he that offereth an oblation, as if he offered swine's blood; he that burneth incense, as if he blessed an idol. Yea, they have chosen their own ways, and their soul delighteth in their abominations.
4 I also will choose their delusions, and will bring their fears upon them; because when I called, none did answer; when I spake, they did not hear: but they did evil before mine eyes, and chose that in which I delighted not.