Why it will be a pre-trib rapture and why the rapture takes place.

[Ahwatukee]

Eph 4
8 Wherefore he saith, When he ascended up on high, he led captivity captive, and gave gifts unto men.
MATTHEW 27:50-53: “And Jesus cried out again with a loud voice, and yielded up His spirit. And behold, the veil of the temple was torn in two from top to bottom, and the earth shook; and the rocks were split, and the tombs were opened; and many bodies of the saints who had fallen asleep were raised; and coming out of the tombs after His resurrection they entered the holy city and appeared to many.”
1 PETER 3:18-19: “For Christ also died for sins once for all, the just for the unjust, in order that He might bring us to God, having been put to death in the flesh, but made alive in the spirit; in which also He went and made proclamation to the spirits now in prison.”

Now read 1 cor 15 vs 20.
"....Jesus the firstfruits of them that slept"

It is clear.

Again, "who had fallen asleep" would infer that they had previously died. Also, that they came out of the tombs and went into the city does not infer that they were raised in their immortal and glorified bodies. They were resurrected just like Lazarus who died again.

When a believer in Christ dies, their spirit departs from the body and goes to be in the presence of the Lord. They are looking forward to the resurrection from that side. Prior to Christ, when an OT saint died, their spirits departed and wend down into the comfort area of Sheol/Hades. This is revealed in the event of the rich man and Lazarus. That obviously changed after the Lord's resurrection, because Paul says to be present in the body is to be absent from the Lord and to be absent from the body is to be in the presence of the Lord. In another scripture, he also says that he was torn between the two, wanting his spirit to depart and be with the Lord, which is better by far or to remain in the body which was better for the strengthening of the Corinthians faith.

 

[Absolutely]

Again, "who had fallen asleep" would infer that they had previously died. Also, that they came out of the tombs and went into the city does not infer that they were raised in their immortal and glorified bodies. They were resurrected just like Lazarus who died again.

When a believer in Christ dies, their spirit departs from the body and goes to be in the presence of the Lord. They are looking forward to the resurrection from that side. Prior to Christ, when an OT saint died, their spirits departed and wend down into the comfort area of Sheol/Hades. This is revealed in the event of the rich man and Lazarus. That obviously changed after the Lord's resurrection, because Paul says to be present in the body is to be absent from the Lord and to be absent from the body is to be in the presence of the Lord. In another scripture, he also says that he was torn between the two, wanting his spirit to depart and be with the Lord, which is better by far or to remain in the body which was better for the strengthening of the Corinthians faith.

1)First fruits of them that died. (Jesus,along with they,are firstfruits)
2)at ascention "took captivity captive"
3) those patriarchs that were dead were resurrected to ascend "took captivity to heaven"
4)He preached the gospel to the souls in prison.
5) paradise is placed in heaven after the ascention according to the nt.
If it is as you say,and they need a second resurrection, then moving paradise is pointless.

Btw show me a second resurrection of thousands of ot saints.


I have yet to see you unpack all that.
You hit around it and assume they,the patriarchs, died again.

 

[Ahwatukee]

1)First fruits of them that died. (Jesus,along with they,are firstfruits)
2)at ascention "took captivity captive"
3) those patriarchs that were dead were resurrected to ascend "took captivity to heaven"
4)He preached the gospel to the souls in prison.
5) paradise is placed in heaven after the ascention according to the nt.
If it is as you say,and they need a second resurrection, then moving paradise is pointless.

Btw show me a second resurrection of thousands of ot saints.


I have yet to see you unpack all that.
You hit around it and assume they,the patriarchs, died again.

Hi Absolutely,

I think you misunderstand. The people who resurrected, i.e. stood back up in their bodies and came out of their tombs, were not resurrected into their immortal and glorified bodies, but back into their mortal bodies. They resurrected in the same manner as Lazarus and Jairus' daughter, i.e. back into their mortal bodies and then at some point died again. The reference to them being taken into captivity to heaven, would be referring to their spirits, not their bodies. Case in point, Lazarus and the rich man died and then their spirits departed their bodies, both going to Hades, Lazarus on the side of comfort/paradise and the rich man on the side of torment in flame.

To be clear about this, Abraham, king David, Jacob and all of the twelve tribes and all OT saints, their bodies are still in the ground. However, their spirits are in heaven. It is the same for those believers who have died in Christ. At the time of death, their spirits departed their bodies and went to be in presence of the Lord, where they are looking forward to the resurrection from there.

According to the scripture, the next group that is to be resurrected in their immortal and glorified bodies, is the church (those at His appearing).

Since Jesus' resurrection, no one else or no other group has resurrected in their immortal and glorified bodies.

Jesus was the first fruits of those who have resurrected immortal and glorified and the church is next.

 

[KJV1611]

The resurrection has nothing to do with dead bodies being raised. SMH

 

[KJV1611]

Dan 12:2 And many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt.

The last part of that verse is the resurrection and the judgement in which EVERY SINGLE PERSON who has slept in the dust will take part in.

The first part of that verse, talks about an event that takes place simultaneously with the resurrection of the last part of the verse. Only SOME of them that sleep in the dust are raised.

The Raising of Bodies - MANY of them but NOT ALL of them that sleep in the ground will be raised.
The Resurrection - ALL of them that sleep in the ground are raised and judged.

Those 2 SEPARATE EVENTS happened on the same day.

It doesn't take a brain surgeon to figure this out.

 

[pottersclay]

But Jesus answered them, saying, “The hour has come that the Son of Man should be glorified. Most assuredly, I say to you, unless a grain of wheat falls into the ground and dies, it remains alone; but if it dies, it produces much grain

I really don't know how to express this more than I have. The above scripture is jesus talking about himself.
If you study the feast and offerings in there order you will find that there is a grain offering which is presented to God. This offering has to be accepted in order to harvest any other harvest.
It is a wave offering. It is untouched by human hands that is why jesus told Mary not to touch him until he ascended to the father. On the first day of the week.
This is also known as the wave offering. It is waved in the air. This is pointing to the proof of the rapture.
This goes together with the first fruits offering. Which has to be presented to God first before any other harvesting.
Our God , our savior, the Messiah, the king of kings, the high priest, is Hebrew, through and through no way around that. He has fulfilled 5 of the seven feast days. He is our high priest. This is how we serve God.
The appointed times all point to jesus, as he is the high priest these things must come to pass.
Study the appointed times and stop being ignorant they are there for a reason. They are God's feast and times not ours or the jews.
If you think that Jesus went some other way then you are sadly mistaken.
He had come to fulfil all the law.
This is what paul was pointing to his writings are according to the feast days.

 

[pottersclay]

Dan 12:2 And many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt.

The last part of that verse is the resurrection and the judgement in which EVERY SINGLE PERSON who has slept in the dust will take part in.

The first part of that verse, talks about an event that takes place simultaneously with the resurrection of the last part of the verse. Only SOME of them that sleep in the dust are raised.

The Raising of Bodies - MANY of them but NOT ALL of them that sleep in the ground will be raised.
The Resurrection - ALL of them that sleep in the ground are raised and judged.

Those 2 SEPARATE EVENTS happened on the same day.

It doesn't take a brain surgeon to figure this out.

So sad

 

[KJV1611]

But Jesus answered them, saying, “The hour has come that the Son of Man should be glorified. Most assuredly, I say to you, unless a grain of wheat falls into the ground and dies, it remains alone; but if it dies, it produces much grain

I really don't know how to express this more than I have. The above scripture is jesus talking about himself.
If you study the feast and offerings in there order you will find that there is a grain offering which is presented to God. This offering has to be accepted in order to harvest any other harvest.
It is a wave offering. It is untouched by human hands that is why jesus told Mary not to touch him until he ascended to the father. On the first day of the week.
This is also known as the wave offering. It is waved in the air. This is pointing to the proof of the rapture.
This goes together with the first fruits offering. Which has to be presented to God first before any other harvesting.
Our God , our savior, the Messiah, the king of kings, the high priest, is Hebrew, through and through no way around that. He has fulfilled 5 of the seven feast days. He is our high priest. This is how we serve God.
The appointed times all point to jesus, as he is the high priest these things must come to pass.
Study the appointed times and stop being ignorant they are there for a reason. They are God's feast and times not ours or the jews.
If you think that Jesus went some other way then you are sadly mistaken.
He had come to fulfil all the law.
This is what paul was pointing to his writings are according to the feast days.

Joh 12:24 Verily, verily, I say unto you, Except a corn of wheat fall into the ground and die, it abideth alone: but if it die, it bringeth forth much fruit.

The corn of wheat is the body of Christ that must die because if he doesn't die he will be alone. But if he dies, his death brings forth much fruit.... the fruit is us.

That verse has nothing to do with the resurrection other than Christ IS the resurrection.

 

[KJV1611]

So sad

Could you point out the sad part?

 

[KJV1611]

Dan 12:2 And many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt.

If the resurrection is the resurrection of dead bodies, can someone explain why some bodies will be left in the dust of the earth at the resurrection?

 

[pottersclay]

Joh 12:24 Verily, verily, I say unto you, Except a corn of wheat fall into the ground and die, it abideth alone: but if it die, it bringeth forth much fruit.

The corn of wheat is the body of Christ that must die because if he doesn't die he will be alone. But if he dies, his death brings forth much fruit.... the fruit is us.

That verse has nothing to do with the resurrection other than Christ IS the resurrection.

And this is your error. Christ is the high priest acting on our behalf. God has not done away with the law nor the feasts.
The problem with you and may others here is you try to christianize Judaism.
Paul mission was to the gentiles to explain and show where jesus is in scripture in the old (shadows).
Jesus said that not one part of the law or word of God shall pass untill all is fulfilled.
This is your ignorance friend. You think jesus had come to christianize Judaism on the contrary Christ came to fulfill it.
Bringing the jew and gentile into one accord. Serving God.
Check out the appointed times and prove me wrong.
Why would paul point out that the christ is a high priest? Why does his writings point out the appointed times.
Untill you understand what the appointed times are and there meaning you will not have a understanding of scripture. I don't care how you interpret it greek, hebrew, french, latin, english ,dutch.
It is all right there in the old testament.
Jesus was a Rabbi, his bloodline from David, he went to the synagogue. He went to the temple.

This is what replacement theology has done to the church. The thinking that the church supersedes Israel
Is such a bogus lie.
The further you place yourself from the old testament the less you'll know of the new. Which is in fact very Jewish.
Jesus died according to scripture, he raised according to scripture. What scripture?????? Was the new written in his time? No it was not.
This was paul's total frustration to teach what God had appointed to please him. His desires to open his house to all nation's and tongues. But there is only one way to enter....in faith. In Christ. Born again.

 

[pottersclay]

Dan 12:2 And many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt.

If the resurrection is the resurrection of dead bodies, can someone explain why some bodies will be left in the dust of the earth at the resurrection?

It says all will raise. Some to glory some to shame. Dude you need to look more clearly.

 

[KJV1611]

It says all will raise. Some to glory some to shame. Dude you need to look more clearly.

This is beyond ridiculous. I'm at a complete loss for words.

Many of them that sleep in the dust shall awake. (NOT ALL)
Some of them THAT AWAKE will be raised to everlasting life and some of them THAT AWAKE are raised to everlasting contempt.

Dan 12:2 And many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt.

 

[KJV1611]

How is that people read and study the bible, and yet they don't recognize EXACTLY what God is doing in Daniel 12:2? God HIDES everything he does from those who don't reverence his word. How is it that no one seems to know this about God and his word? This is a theme from cover to cover.

 

[CS1]

Dan 12:2 And many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt.

The last part of that verse is the resurrection and the judgment in which EVERY SINGLE PERSON who has slept in the dust will take part in.

The first part of that verse talks about an event that takes place simultaneously with the resurrection of the last part of the verse. Only SOME of them that sleep in the dust is raised.

The Raising of Bodies - MANY of them but NOT ALL of them that sleep in the ground will be raised.
The Resurrection - ALL of them that sleep in the ground are raised and judged.

Those 2 SEPARATE EVENTS happened on the same day.

It doesn't take a brain surgeon to figure this out.

I think you assume they happen on the same day If that were the case Jesu could not be returning with HIS saints. Also, the great White Throne Judgement is not for Christ, they will go to what the bible talks about as the Seat of Christ, and the works they did after salvation will be judged. it seems you are mixing many distinctive events which the bible when you read it must be kept in context to that event no matter when it is listed in the word of God not all are chronological.

The end times, last day, Day of the Lord, Coming of the Lord, call out of, Taking out of the way, the millennial reign the final judgment. Daniel spoke of many of these and so did Zacharia and others. Yet as Jesus did in Matthew 24-24 chapters He was answering three questions when will the temple be destroyed, what will be the sign of your coming, and the end of the world.

Jesus speaks on each of these and so did John and others as the Holy Spirit led them.

 

[pottersclay]

How is that people read and study the bible, and yet they don't recognize EXACTLY what God is doing in Daniel 12:2? God HIDES everything he does from those who don't reverence his word. How is it that no one seems to know this about God and his word? This is a theme from cover to cover.

All will rise cupcake....some to glory some to judgement. Your reading it wrong.

How is that people read and study the bible, and yet they don't recognize EXACTLY what God is doing in Daniel 12:2? God HIDES everything he does from those who don't reverence his word. How is it that no one seems to know this about God and his word? This is a theme from cover to cover.

I think what you have here is how the kjv wording in the scripture.

 

[KJV1611]

I think you assume they happen on the same day If that were the case Jesu could not be returning with HIS saints. Also, the great White Throne Judgement is not for Christ, they will go to what the bible talks about as the Seat of Christ, and the works they did after salvation will be judged. it seems you are mixing many distinctive events which the bible when you read it must be kept in context to that event no matter when it is listed in the word of God not all are chronological.

The end times, last day, Day of the Lord, Coming of the Lord, call out of, Taking out of the way, the millennial reign the final judgment. Daniel spoke of many of these and so did Zacharia and others. Yet as Jesus did in Matthew 24-24 chapters He was answering three questions when will the temple be destroyed, what will be the sign of your coming, and the end of the world.

Jesus speaks on each of these and so did John and others as the Holy Spirit led them.

Doesn't the resurrection take place in one day, the LAST DAY.

Joh 6:39 And this is the Father's will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day.
Joh 6:40 And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day.

 

[KJV1611]

All will rise cupcake....some to glory some to judgement. Your reading it wrong.


I think what you have here is how the kjv wording in the scripture.

It's definitely a KJV issue because the other translations word it completely different.

 

[CS1]

I think you assume they happen on the same day If that were the case Jesu could not be returning with HIS saints. Also, the great White Throne Judgement is not for Christ, they will go to what the bible talks about as the Seat of Christ, and the works they did after salvation will be judged. it seems you are mixing many distinctive events which the bible when you read it must be kept in context to that event no matter when it is listed in the word of God not all are chronological.

The end times, last day, Day of the Lord, Coming of the Lord, call out of, Taking out of the way, the millennial reign the final judgment. Daniel spoke of many of these and so did Zacharia and others. Yet as Jesus did in Matthew 24-24 chapters He was answering three questions when will the temple be destroyed, what will be the sign of your coming, and the end of the world.

Jesus speaks on each of these and so did John and others as the Holy Spirit led them.

I think you assume they happen on the same day If that were the case Jesus could not be returning with HIS saints. Also, the great White Throne Judgement is not for Christians, they will go to what the bible talks about as the Seat of Christ, and the works they did after salvation will be judged. it seems you are mixing many distinctive events which the bible when you read it must be kept in context to that event no matter when it is listed in the word of God not all are chronological.

The end times, last day, Day of the Lord, Coming of the Lord, call out of, Taking out of the way, the millennial reign the final judgment. Daniel spoke of many of these and so did Zacharia and others. Yet as Jesus did in Matthew 24-25 chapters He was answering three questions when will the temple be destroyed, what will be the sign of your coming, and the end of the world.

Jesus speaks on each of these and so did John and others as the Holy Spirit led them

 

[KJV1611]

Doesn't the resurrection take place in one day, the LAST DAY.

Joh 6:39 And this is the Father's will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day.
Joh 6:40 And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day.

@pottersclay
You didn't know the resurrection was an event that takes place in one day did you, the LAST DAY?

I mean the OT saints were raised and you call them the firstfuits of the resurrection and you say there will be another harvest at the end of the world. Well, how does that fit when the resurrection is on the last day?

Use your critical thinking skills, put those things together (those verses and Daniel) and then you'll understand, the rapture, the resurrection and the second coming. And then you will find out that everything that what you're teaching people is completely wrong.

It's laid right out there before you, all you have to do is believe it.