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pagan myth can only point but Truth Happened! Truth belongs to us and whatever is true found in pagan myth is made holy when pointed at it's true object. All Truth is Our Lord and He has given Himself to us. The measure of truth found in pagan myth belongs to us. Pagans are converted when they see what they already believe happened when God Incarnated and entered human life and history.
It could have replaced a Pagan holiday, but that is fine with me. At least, no one or at the very least not many can remember the Pagan stuff now and so people are not celebrating those demons any more on that day. Now it is a day set aside for the world to remember the greatest gift to this world, the birth of Jesus Christ.
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Christmas is celebrated around the world differently. Its meaning has embraced many folklore stories.
Then there are some who do not recognize it at all and have there own celebration of traditions.
You cannot christianize any pagan holiday any more than you can Christianize Judaism.
The month of November through out December can be very depressing. As sunlight is limited in many parts of the world bringing a cold snowy or rainy challenging time to many.
People have put together folklore such as santa clause or st. Nick among many other traditions in that time of year.
Christian's it seems have put together a celebration of the birth of Christ as a reminder that hope has been given the world.
The one thing that stands out in this time are the Jewish traditions and customs. They are not of there own but God's appointed times. God's feast and holidays.
Though we may debate on what's wrong and what's right let us look into the why of the matter.
What are the pros and cons?
Reminding the world that the savior has been born into this world as a gift from God seems harmless to me. Bringing light and joy to others in this theme of glad tidings are what we should be all about.
Not only in December but every day.
Then there are some who do not recognize it at all and have there own celebration of traditions.
You cannot christianize any pagan holiday any more than you can Christianize Judaism.
The month of November through out December can be very depressing. As sunlight is limited in many parts of the world bringing a cold snowy or rainy challenging time to many.
People have put together folklore such as santa clause or st. Nick among many other traditions in that time of year.
Christian's it seems have put together a celebration of the birth of Christ as a reminder that hope has been given the world.
The one thing that stands out in this time are the Jewish traditions and customs. They are not of there own but God's appointed times. God's feast and holidays.
Though we may debate on what's wrong and what's right let us look into the why of the matter.
What are the pros and cons?
Reminding the world that the savior has been born into this world as a gift from God seems harmless to me. Bringing light and joy to others in this theme of glad tidings are what we should be all about.
Not only in December but every day.
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Failure to contextualize practices seen in the world with scriptural admonitions has left many in the dark where evil,satanic practices are concerned. The attempt to appropriate the customs of others should have been done with the scriptures as a guide to what is acceptable to God.Whose custom was this(Christmas) and what did God have to say about these customs:
The testimony of several is clear:
"As early as A.D 245,the Church father Origen was proclaiming it heathenish to celebrate Christ's birthday as if He were merely a
temporal ruler when His spiritual nature should be the main concern."(The Christmas Almanac,Gerard and Patricia Del Re)
"The Fathers of the 2nd and 3rd centuries,such as Clement of Alexandria,Origen and Epiphanius,contended that Christmas was a copy of a pagan celebration" (Encyclopedia Britannica,15th edition)
"Christians of Armenia and Syria accused the Christians of Rome of sun worship for celebrating Christmas on December 25th...Pope Leo the Great in the fifth century tried to remove certain practices at Christmas which He considered in no way different from sun worship."(Celebrations:The Complete Book of American Holidays,Robert Myers)
The practices were called,pagan,heathenish,sun worship.From whence did these come?They are nowhere supported by the word of God nor practiced by the people of God.
Hear what God says about this:
"Take heed to thyself that thou be not snared by following them, after that they be destroyed from before thee; and that thou enquire not after their gods, saying,How did these nations serve their gods? even so will I do likewise. Thou shalt notdo so unto. the LORD thy God: for every abomination to the LORD, which He hateth,have they done unto their gods."( Deuteronomy 12:30-31)
“This I say therefore, and testify in the Lord, that ye henceforth walk not as other Gentiles walk,in the vanity of their mind, Having the understanding darkened,being alienated from the life of God through the ignorance that is in them, becauseof the blindness of their heart: Who being past feeling have given themselves over unto lasciviousness, to work all uncleanness with greediness.”(Ephesians 4:17-19)
“For the time past of our life may suffice us to have wrought the will of the Gentiles, when we walked in lasciviousness, lusts, excess of wine, revellings,banquetings, and abominable idolatries.”(I Peter 4:3)
Christmas,Easter,birthday and other celebrations are of heathen/pagan origin and many have their roots in sun worship. Knowing this, why go against the word which instructs not to partake in the abominable idolatries of the heathen/Gentiles?The very early church was opposed to this practice as are the scriptures and so there can be no justification for its later introduction.
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In many issues,the views of modern theologians differ from those in the past.So it is that views about christmas have
changed.The change unfortunately,has no basis in scripture but instead reflect the desires of men to do that which pleases them.
HOW VARIOUS GROUPS AND PERSONS VIEWED CHRISTMAS IN THE PAST:
MAYFIELD, Ky. (BP) -- Baptists of the South and the faith community of Southern Baptists after 1845 originally did not attach much significance to Christmas. The holiday is not recognized as a special day of worship in any of the historic Baptist confessions, allusions to it are rare in Baptist history volumes before the 1880s, and the holiday possessed an association with worldliness and even paganism in the minds of many Baptist ministers. Such opinions can still be found among some Baptists today who voice, "The New Testament does not command us to celebrate a festival commemorating the nativity."(“Southern Baptists have not always embraced Christmas”, by Stephen Douglas Wilson,Baptist Press.)
Historically, prior to the twentieth century, Christmas (much less Advent) was little discussed within Baptist congregations. Baptist historians have rarely addressed the manner in which Baptists viewed or observed the Christmas season. Leon McBeth’s The Baptist Heritage is one of few Baptist surveys (of any time period) to reference Christmas.Noting that Baptists of the eighteenth century viewed Christmas “as worldly and popish” (a view reflective of sixteenth century Puritanism), McBeth quotes Samuel Jones, a Baptist student at Isaac’s Eaton Hopewell Academy (the first Baptist educational institution in America) who wrote the following diary entry on December 25, 1757: “Christmas Day! But our school goes on as usual. The only difference was that we had two big turkeys for dinner. Mr. E(aton) told us that he did not observe Christmas as he was certain that our Savior was not born on the twenty-fifth or any other day in December.” (McBeth, 250) As for Jones, he personally believed that there was no harm in “celebrating some day in commemoration of such a great event.” (Hywel M. Davies, Transatlantic Brethren: Rev. Samuel Jones, 1735-1814, and His Friends, Baptists in Wales, Pennsylvania and Beyond. Cranbury, N.J.: Associated University Presses, 1985, p. 82).(“Baptists and Christmas”,by Bruce T. Gourley, Baptist Studies Bulletin December 2010.)
"A broad element of English Christianity still considered Christmas celebration a pagan blasphemy. The Puritans, Baptists, Quakers, Presbyterians, Calvinists and other denominations brought this opposition to early New England and strong opposition to the holiday lasted in America until the middle of the 18th century."(USA TODAY article about Christmas,23,Dec.1983)
"I hold it to be one of the greatest absurdities under heaven to think that there is any religion in keeping of Christmas" (Spurgeon,taken from The New Park Street Pulpit and was originally preached on Sunday morning, December 23, 1855).
"When it can be proved that the observance of Christmas, Whitsuntide, and other Popish festivals was ever instituted by a divine statute, we also will attend to them, but not till then. It is as much our duty to reject the traditions of men, as to observe the ordinances of the Lord. We ask concerning every rite and rubric, 'Is this a law of the God of Jacob?' and if it be not clearly so, it is of no authority with us, who walk in Christian liberty." (Spurgeon, David on Psalm 81:4)
If the practice did not originate in the apostolic church and was so much disputed in later years ;then what is the origin of this practice?
THE POSSIBLE ORIGINS AND REASONS FOR THE PRACTICE:
“Christmas was not among the earliest festivals of the Church…The first evidence of the feast is from Egypt.” ……Pagan customs centering round the January calends gravitated to Christmas.” Under “Natal Day,” Origen, an early Catholic writer, admitted, “…In the Scriptures, no one is recorded to have kept a feast or held a great banquet on his birthday. It is only sinners (like Pharaoh and Herod) who make great rejoicings over the day on which they were born into this world”( “Christmas”,Catholic Encyclopedia, 1911 edition.)
“It was custom among Jews to send out their sheep to the deserts about the Passover [early spring], and bring them home at the commencement of the first rain.During the time they were out, the shepherds watched them night and day. As…the first rain began early in the month of March-esvan, which answers to part of our October and November [begins sometime in October], we find that the sheep were kept out in the open country during the whole summer. And as these shepherds had not yet brought home their flocks, it is a presumptive argument that October had not yet commenced, and that, consequently, our Lord was not born on the 25th of December, when no flocks were out in the fields; nor could He have been born later than September, as the flocks were still in the fields by night. On this very ground, the nativity in December should be given up. The feeding of the flocks by night in the fields is a chronological fact…See the quotations from the Talmudists in Lightfoot.”( Adam Clarke Commentary, volume 5, page 370, New York edition.)
WHICH BIRTH IS REALLY BEING CELEBRATED SINCE JESUS WAS NOT BORN ON DECEMBER ,25th?
“In the Roman world the Saturnalia (December 17) was a time of merrymaking and exchanging of gifts. December 25 was also regarded as the birth date of the Iranian mystery god Mithra, the Sun of Righteousness. On the Roman New Year (January 1), houses were decorated with greenery and lights, and gifts were given to children and the poor. To these observances were added the German and Celtic Yule rites when the Teutonic tribes penetrated into Gaul, Britain, and central Europe. Food and good fellowship, the Yule log and Yule cakes, greenery and fir trees, gifts and greetings all commemorated different aspects of this festive season. Fires and lights, symbols of warmth and lasting life, have always been associated with the winter festival, both pagan and Christian” (“Christmas”,Encyclopaedia Britannica, 15th Edit. Vol. II, p. 903).
“The interchange of presents between friends is a like characteristic of Christmas and the Saturnalia, and must have been adopted by Christians from the pagans, as the admonition of Tertullian plainly shows” (The Bibliotheca Sacra Vol. 12, pp. 153-155).
WHAT WAS THE REAL REASON FOR THE GIFTS TO JESUS?
“Verse 11. They presented unto him gifts. The people of the east never approach the presence of kings and great personages, without a present in their hands. This custom is often noticed in the Old Testament, and still prevails in the east, and in some of the newly discovered South Seas Islands.” ( Adam Clarke Commentary, volume 5, page 46)
It should be clear that the practice of christmas is one which seeks to place Jesus where neither he nor his disciples intended for him to be.Many Christians over the years and even now do recognise the deception and do resist the lies and abominable practices masquerading as Christian.Many still cling to the traditions of men without any scriptural or logical reasons.We can only pray that their eyes will one day be opened to see the truth.
safswan.
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Are you saying we should disregard celebrating Christmas then? 
God has used it for good. It is also used for evil like there are more suicides at this season, many people take on unreasonable debt, and it promotes drinking to excess.
S
Another contributor could have been the Jewish feast of lights. Is it possible that Christians were trying to create an alternative to that day as well?
"The Feast of Lights or the Feast of Dedication was observed for eight days beginning with the twenty-fifth of Kislev. It is mentioned in John 10:22. It was first established in 164 B.C. when Judas Maccabeus cleansed the temple, which had been profaned by Antiochus Epiphanes, and rededicated it to the service of God. Every Jewish home was brilliantly lighted in its honor and the stories of the Maccabees were repeated for the benefit of the children. It corresponds almost exactly in time to the Christian Christmas."
Merrill C. Tenney. New Testament Survey
"The Feast of Lights or the Feast of Dedication was observed for eight days beginning with the twenty-fifth of Kislev. It is mentioned in John 10:22. It was first established in 164 B.C. when Judas Maccabeus cleansed the temple, which had been profaned by Antiochus Epiphanes, and rededicated it to the service of God. Every Jewish home was brilliantly lighted in its honor and the stories of the Maccabees were repeated for the benefit of the children. It corresponds almost exactly in time to the Christian Christmas."
Merrill C. Tenney. New Testament Survey
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Exploring the New Testament World an Illustrated Guide to the World of Jesus Christ and the First Christians by Albert A. Bell Jr.
Page 140
He also seems to think that the cult of Mithraism in the 4th century gaining popularity in Rome was one of the contributing reasons for the Christians to celebrate Christmas on Dec 25. He is another author that gives this cult the more likely reason over Saturnalia.
Page 140
He also seems to think that the cult of Mithraism in the 4th century gaining popularity in Rome was one of the contributing reasons for the Christians to celebrate Christmas on Dec 25. He is another author that gives this cult the more likely reason over Saturnalia.
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Do not concern yourself with this tyype of criticism. It comes from those who can only rely on the written code, which kills.
With the Holy Spirit teaching you, having the exact words are helpful at times, but without understanding being shared, the written word kills. YOu do not need Alzheimer[s now or ever. God bless you.
With the Holy Spirit teaching you, having the exact words are helpful at times, but without understanding being shared, the written word kills. YOu do not need Alzheimer[s now or ever. God bless you.
I read some of your posts on the first page, and these on the last page and noticed your use of the phrase "why christianize something pagan?" (which I pretty much agree is non-beneficial but doesn't seem to hold weight with those to whom you say it). What came to me when reading this particular posting was the passage in 1 Kings in which king Jeroboam decided to establish a holiday in a month of his own choosing. That didn't seem to be a good idea then, and it doesn't seem like it would be a good idea now, if applicable. Here's the passage:
1 Kings 12:32-33
[32] And Jeroboam ordained a feast in the eighth month, on the fifteenth day of the month, like unto the feast that is in Judah, and he offered upon the altar. So did he in Beth-el, sacrificing unto the calves that he had made: and he placed in Beth-el the priests of the high places which he had made. [33] So he offered upon the altar which he had made in Beth-el the fifteenth day of the eighth month, even in the month which he had devised of his own heart; and ordained a feast unto the children of Israel: and he offered upon the altar, and burnt incense.
The question on my mind is "Did the people who decided to establish Dec 25th as Christmas choose this out of their own heart?" because I've never heard any claim that God told them to do it.
Also I don't see a biblical precedent for taking over other religions' holidays to push out bad traditions.
Love in Jesus,
Kelby
1 Kings 12:32-33
[32] And Jeroboam ordained a feast in the eighth month, on the fifteenth day of the month, like unto the feast that is in Judah, and he offered upon the altar. So did he in Beth-el, sacrificing unto the calves that he had made: and he placed in Beth-el the priests of the high places which he had made. [33] So he offered upon the altar which he had made in Beth-el the fifteenth day of the eighth month, even in the month which he had devised of his own heart; and ordained a feast unto the children of Israel: and he offered upon the altar, and burnt incense.
The question on my mind is "Did the people who decided to establish Dec 25th as Christmas choose this out of their own heart?" because I've never heard any claim that God told them to do it.
Also I don't see a biblical precedent for taking over other religions' holidays to push out bad traditions.
Love in Jesus,
Kelby
That would be a fairly good reason to have started a tradition of worshipping on a day otherwise used for pagan purposes.
Our church has a get-together on the weekend of one of the U.S. holidays, not in reaction to whatever the world is doing with their time, but because most people have the extra day(s) off. So I could see the logic in that.
Love in Jesus,
Kelby
Our church has a get-together on the weekend of one of the U.S. holidays, not in reaction to whatever the world is doing with their time, but because most people have the extra day(s) off. So I could see the logic in that.
Love in Jesus,
Kelby
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same reason churches have light parties on Halloween, but they forget that the next day was traditionally all saints day.
demons and ghosts only are allowed one day of the whole year to haunt people and beg for lollies.
I also never really got the usa's thanksgiving, seems like its celberated with a big feast, but nobody really seems that thankful, I would have thought everyone would be going round saying thank you to everyone or sending thank you cards.
demons and ghosts only are allowed one day of the whole year to haunt people and beg for lollies.
I also never really got the usa's thanksgiving, seems like its celberated with a big feast, but nobody really seems that thankful, I would have thought everyone would be going round saying thank you to everyone or sending thank you cards.