Forgiveness: conditional or unconditional?

[Blik]

If forgiveness is conditional, we are all doomed.

we have already failed to meet the condition

The only condition I have read that Jesus gives is to believe He can save and to want to be saved. Many people have met those conditions.

 

[Deuteronomy]

What if he doesn't repent? What then?

Hello Kolistus, the Lord tells us exactly what we are supposed to do before forgiveness is offered, yes

Luke 17​

3 “If your brother sins, rebuke him; and ~if~ he repents, forgive him.​

4 And ~if~ he sins against you seven times a day, and returns to you seven times, ~saying~, ‘I repent,’ ... forgive him.”​

When we obey the Lord's command to rebuke someone who has sinned against us .. e.g. Luke 17:3-4, and they refuse to repent/will not ask us to forgive them, then forgiveness should not be offered, and that, in part, for their sake, yes

God bless you!

~Deut
p.s. - here's a question from a slightly different POV, since the Lord commands us to rebuke a brother who sins/sins against us, if we disobey His command and refuse to rebuke our sinning brother, do we become a sinner (who needs to repent and be forgiven) because we have refused to obey the Lord's command
.

 

[Deuteronomy]

Which verse says we receive forgiveness when we believe?

Hello Througfaith, here's a verse that comes to mind,

Acts 10​

43 “Of Him all the prophets bear witness, that through His name everyone who believes in Him receives forgiveness of sins.”​

It is stated in many other verses as well, though perhaps not quite as directly as it is in v43 above.

I believe the real matter at hand (when talking about our forgiveness of one another on the one hand, and God forgiving our sins and saving us on the other) is the teaching of the RCC that conflates the two in a passage like this one .. Matthew 6:14-15 (where they believe God not forgiving our sins is in regard to our salvation, instead of the state or condition of our relationship with Him).

~Deut

 

[eternally-gratefull]

It could be said that forgiveness is unilaterally offered, and that
salvation is conditioned upon acceptance of proffered forgiveness.

I agree that we do not earn salvation. It is a gift that must be received.

People have a choice. The most important question anybody can answer is one Jesus put to His disciples:

“But what about you?” Jesus asked. “Who do you say I am?”

Yes they have a choice.
but if it is a condition then it is earned.
to earn a wage you must satisfy the conditions of work

when someone buys you a gift, it’s yours, there is no condition which can be made, taking it is not a condition, it’s a decision,

must be careful in the words we use

 

[eternally-gratefull]

The only condition I have read that Jesus gives is to believe He can save and to want to be saved. Many people have met those conditions.

That’s not a condition that’s a decision

huge difference

 

[Magenta]

Yes they have a choice.
but if it is a condition then it is earned.
to earn a wage you must satisfy the conditions of work

when someone buys you a gift, it’s yours, there is no condition which can be made, taking it is not a condition, it’s a decision,

must be careful in the words we use

People reject the gift... it needs to be received.

John 1:12 Yet to all who did receive him, to those who believed in his name, he gave the right to become children of God-

 

[throughfaith]

Hello Througfaith, here's a verse that comes to mind,

Acts 10​

43 “Of Him all the prophets bear witness, that through His name everyone who believes in Him receives forgiveness of sins.”​

It is stated in many other verses as well, though perhaps not quite as directly as it is in v43 above.

I believe the real matter at hand (when talking about our forgiveness of one another on the one hand, and God forgiving our sins and saving us on the other) is the teaching of the RCC that conflates the two in a passage like this one .. Matthew 6:14-15 (where they believe God not forgiving our sins is in regard to our salvation, instead of the state or condition of our relationship with Him).

~Deut

Yes a believer today recieves remission and redemption. Prior to Jesus ,death burial and resurrection they only recieved remission.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

People reject the gift... it needs to be received.

John 1:12 Yet to all who did receive him, to those who believed in his name, he gave the right to become children of God-

Yes

that’s a decision, not a condition

the only condition we have to be saved is to be have perfect obedience to the law, we failed that condition because all have sinned

if belief is a condition, then we can earn salvation by our belief, saying this is exactly what fatalists/calvinists want us to think, because it proves their point,

 

[throughfaith]

Yes

that’s a decision, not a condition

the only condition we have to be saved is to be have perfect obedience to the law, we failed that condition because all have sinned

if belief is a condition, then we can earn salvation by our belief, saying this is exactly what fatalists/calvinists want us to think, because it proves their point,

If faith was considered a work , maybe . But faith is contrasted with works . Faith is the prerequisite to salvation . Calvinists make faith into a work due to a faulty understanding of the gospel. It pleases God when a person trusts on Jesus.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

If faith was considered a work , maybe . But faith is contrasted with works . Faith is the prerequisite to salvation . Calvinists make faith into a work due to a faulty understanding of the gospel. It pleases God when a person trusts on Jesus.

If you make faith a condition, as apposed to a decision, then you make it a work.

nomatter how you try to spin it

we can not in any sense of the word save ourselves by faith, we are saved by grace by the work of God, through faith (a decision) not by faith(a work of man)

 

[Magenta]

Yes they have a choice.
but if it is a condition then it is earned.
to earn a wage you must satisfy the conditions of work

when someone buys you a gift, it’s yours, there is no condition which can be made, taking it is not a condition, it’s a decision,

must be careful in the words we use

You may as well say salvation is unconditional. And you would be wrong.

Salvation is conditioned upon repentance and belief/faith.

The gift has to be received.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

You may as well say salvation is unconditional. And you would be wrong.

Salvation is conditioned upon repentance and belief/faith.

It is unconditional

we can do absolutely nothing to save ourselves

if someone try’s to hand us 100 dollars out of his own hard work, and we recieve it, we still did not earn it.
repentance and faith comes from God. You did not come to these decisions by yourself that’s why you can’t boast of them. And why it is the work of God we believe (John 6)

 

[John146]

If you make faith a condition, as apposed to a decision, then you make it a work.

nomatter how you try to spin it

we can not in any sense of the word save ourselves by faith, we are saved by grace by the work of God, through faith (a decision) not by faith(a work of man)

One condition to salvation is hearing the word of truth, the gospel.

13 In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,

 

[Magenta]

It is unconditional

we can do absolutely nothing to save ourselves

if someone try’s to hand us 100 dollars out of his own hard work, and we recieve it, we still did not earn it.
repentance and faith comes from God. You did not come to these decisions by yourself that’s why you can’t boast of them. And why it is the work of God we believe (John 6)

If it is unconditional, why is everyone not saved?

I have said nothing about earning salvation.

I have repeatedly spoken of a gift from God.

A gift that needs to be received.

Faith is not a work.

So nobody decides for them selves? They are puppets in your view?

Puppets who don't have a choice. Sounds very Calvinistic.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

If it is unconditional, why is everyone not saved?

I have said nothing about earning salvation.

I have repeatedly spoken of a gift from God.

A gift that needs to be received.

Faith is not a work.

So nobody decides for them selves? They are puppets in your view?

Puppets who don't have a choice. Sounds very Calvinistic.

Lol

its the TERM

a condition is made to earn a wage

a decision is made to recieve a gift.

huge difference

 

[eternally-gratefull]

One condition to salvation is hearing the word of truth, the gospel.

13 In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,

If this was true, then everyone who heard would be saved.

and Remember, if if you think they have not heard, that’s no excuse, as Romans 1 states because all know god has shown it to them

 

[eternally-gratefull]

We are saved by the means of grace through faith

the condiction for salvation is been satisfied for all men

the decision one makes to receive or reject the gift., faith is not the condition one must fulfill in order to achieve salvation

 

[John146]

If this was true, then everyone who heard would be saved.

and Remember, if if you think they have not heard, that’s no excuse, as Romans 1 states because all know god has shown it to them

So, hearing the gospel of Jesus Christ does not come before believing the gospel unto salvation? That’s the truth of Ephesians 1:13...

 

[John146]

We are saved by the means of grace through faith

the condiction for salvation is been satisfied for all men

the decision one makes to receive or reject the gift., faith is not the condition one must fulfill in order to achieve salvation

I’m now appealing to the dispensationalist in you...the verses below sound conditional...awww, the importance of rightly dividing the word of truth.

Matthew 6
14 For if ye forgive men their trespasses, your heavenly Father will also forgive you:
15 But if ye forgive not men their trespasses, neither will your Father forgive your trespasses.

If you forgive others, then I’ll forgive you.

 

[throughfaith]

If you make faith a condition, as apposed to a decision, then you make it a work.

nomatter how you try to spin it

we can not in any sense of the word save ourselves by faith, we are saved by grace by the work of God, through faith (a decision) not by faith(a work of man)

I say ' prerequisite ' to be saved by God . Faith in the Gospel is needed . That is God's design and plan.