Why The Fruit Inspectors Get It Wrong - by Pastor Ralph Arnold

[ChosenbyHim]

Why The Fruit Inspectors Get It Wrong - by Pastor Ralph Arnold​

There are ministers, teachers and preachers out there which adhere to a false view of Lordship Salvation. It is usually the Calvinistic view of Lordship salvation which falls under the P in Calvinism's T.U.L.I.P. (i.e Perseverance of the Saints) And they will wrest Scriptures like Matthew 7:20-23, to try to teach that they can tell whose saved and who is lost, by observing how a person is living. But what they fail to realize is that in that passage in Matthew 7, Jesus said that a good tree CANNOT bring forth evil fruit, NEITHER CAN a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit. (See vs. 18). If a Good Tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, that means it cannot produce or bring forth any bad fruit at all. Not even one bad fruit can come from a good tree, according Jesus' very own words in that passage. Now the question to consider is, Christian, after your salvation, have you ever did a bad deed? Have you ever sinned and had a bad thought??? If the answer is Yes, and obviously it is, and it is YES for ALL Christians, then that means we did bring forth a bad fruit. How could that be though?

If a Good Tree cannot even bring forth one bad fruit? The Answer is simply this. When Jesus Christ gave that remarkable illustration of the two trees, He was speaking about Old Nature (Bad Tree) and the New Nature (Good Tree). Our Old Sin Nature CANNOT even bring forth one good fruit. And Our New Nature CANNOT even bring forth one bad fruit. The Old Man (Bad and Corrupt Root) can only produce bad and evil fruit. And our New Man (Good Root) can only produce Good and wholesome fruit. Christians certainly can produce good fruit in their lives. And they should. But they can only produce this good fruit if they are walking in the Spirit and Yielding unto Him. And at the same time, a Christian can also produce bad and rotten fruit. Although they should not produce bad fruit, the truth is, all Christians have produced some level of bad fruit in their lives. and this is because all Christians at times will yield to the flesh and walk after the flesh (Old Man). And whensoever a Christian does walk after the flesh, they will produce the rotten fruit (bad works) of the flesh. please see Galatians 5.

For a born again Christian to bear good fruit, that Christian must abide in Christ and His Holy Scriptures. This is the only way that we can bear fruit. If we want to bear and produce any good fruit in our lives, if we want to live a changed, new and transformed life, we must abide in the Vine, which is Christ and His holy word. And if we as Christians do not abide in Christ, and do not abide in His words, and if we walk after the flesh (the bad tree), then any one of us can go back to our old life of sin. We could even get to a point where we deny the faith and turn from it. Yet though, we will still be saved. A Christian could even become a professing atheist. A born again Atheist????? Yes, it can actually get that bad. And yet, he would still be saved. Why? because the New Nature (Second Birth) is still in him. Just because a Christian lives and walks after the flesh (his first birth), that does not do away with his New Nature (Second Birth).

 

[calibob]

Why The Fruit Inspectors Get It Wrong - by Pastor Ralph Arnold​

There are ministers, teachers and preachers out there which adhere to a false view of Lordship Salvation. It is usually the Calvinistic view of Lordship salvation which falls under the P in Calvinism's T.U.L.I.P. (i.e Perseverance of the Saints) And they will wrest Scriptures like Matthew 7:20-23, to try to teach that they can tell whose saved and who is lost, by observing how a person is living. But what they fail to realize is that in that passage in Matthew 7, Jesus said that a good tree CANNOT bring forth evil fruit, NEITHER CAN a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit. (See vs. 18). If a Good Tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, that means it cannot produce or bring forth any bad fruit at all. Not even one bad fruit can come from a good tree, according Jesus' very own words in that passage. Now the question to consider is, Christian, after your salvation, have you ever did a bad deed? Have you ever sinned and had a bad thought??? If the answer is Yes, and obviously it is, and it is YES for ALL Christians, then that means we did bring forth a bad fruit. How could that be though?

If a Good Tree cannot even bring forth one bad fruit? The Answer is simply this. When Jesus Christ gave that remarkable illustration of the two trees, He was speaking about Old Nature (Bad Tree) and the New Nature (Good Tree). Our Old Sin Nature CANNOT even bring forth one good fruit. And Our New Nature CANNOT even bring forth one bad fruit. The Old Man (Bad and Corrupt Root) can only produce bad and evil fruit. And our New Man (Good Root) can only produce Good and wholesome fruit. Christians certainly can produce good fruit in their lives. And they should. But they can only produce this good fruit if they are walking in the Spirit and Yielding unto Him. And at the same time, a Christian can also produce bad and rotten fruit. Although they should not produce bad fruit, the truth is, all Christians have produced some level of bad fruit in their lives. and this is because all Christians at times will yield to the flesh and walk after the flesh (Old Man). And whensoever a Christian does walk after the flesh, they will produce the rotten fruit (bad works) of the flesh. please see Galatians 5.

For a born again Christian to bear good fruit, that Christian must abide in Christ and His Holy Scriptures. This is the only way that we can bear fruit. If we want to bear and produce any good fruit in our lives, if we want to live a changed, new and transformed life, we must abide in the Vine, which is Christ and His holy word. And if we as Christians do not abide in Christ, and do not abide in His words, and if we walk after the flesh (the bad tree), then any one of us can go back to our old life of sin. We could even get to a point where we deny the faith and turn from it. Yet though, we will still be saved. A Christian could even become a professing atheist. A born again Atheist????? Yes, it can actually get that bad. And yet, he would still be saved. Why? because the New Nature (Second Birth) is still in him. Just because a Christian lives and walks after the flesh (his first birth), that does not do away with his New Nature (Second Birth).

When some holier than thou, wannabe, judgmental, Pharasidical, Judaizing, law giver or Sadducee-Calvinist declares to me that they are a fruit inspector and they a certificate from XYZ School of theology. The first response that comes to my mind (not my mouth) is Oh yeah? I'm a nut inspector and your a Pistachio.

Once I was with a group and we were called a haters of God. Because were was standing in line at a Benny Hinn Show, that I was invited to. I didn't know much at all about Hinn and decided to go along with my friends and listen. I turned around, paraphrased David from 2 Samuel 2 and loudly said, "Who are you to Judge someone that may be one of Gods anointed and who are you to Judge me either? You don't know me and I don't know Benny Hinn. Judge not lest ye be judged. Now get thee behind me you scoffer!" (It was spontaneous.)

One of the people I was with rebuked me, because I embarrassed her. Another thanked me for speaking up. Some other witnesses laughed. The motormouth sheepishly lowered his protest sign and left. Quietly. I'm not a Benny Hinn fan but neither am I his judge.

 

[CS1]

Why The Fruit Inspectors Get It Wrong - by Pastor Ralph Arnold​

There are ministers, teachers and preachers out there which adhere to a false view of Lordship Salvation. It is usually the Calvinistic view of Lordship salvation which falls under the P in Calvinism's T.U.L.I.P. (i.e Perseverance of the Saints) And they will wrest Scriptures like Matthew 7:20-23, to try to teach that they can tell whose saved and who is lost, by observing how a person is living. But what they fail to realize is that in that passage in Matthew 7, Jesus said that a good tree CANNOT bring forth evil fruit, NEITHER CAN a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit. (See vs. 18). If a Good Tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, that means it cannot produce or bring forth any bad fruit at all. Not even one bad fruit can come from a good tree, according Jesus' very own words in that passage. Now the question to consider is, Christian, after your salvation, have you ever did a bad deed? Have you ever sinned and had a bad thought??? If the answer is Yes, and obviously it is, and it is YES for ALL Christians, then that means we did bring forth a bad fruit. How could that be though?

If a Good Tree cannot even bring forth one bad fruit? The Answer is simply this. When Jesus Christ gave that remarkable illustration of the two trees, He was speaking about Old Nature (Bad Tree) and the New Nature (Good Tree). Our Old Sin Nature CANNOT even bring forth one good fruit. And Our New Nature CANNOT even bring forth one bad fruit. The Old Man (Bad and Corrupt Root) can only produce bad and evil fruit. And our New Man (Good Root) can only produce Good and wholesome fruit. Christians certainly can produce good fruit in their lives. And they should. But they can only produce this good fruit if they are walking in the Spirit and Yielding unto Him. And at the same time, a Christian can also produce bad and rotten fruit. Although they should not produce bad fruit, the truth is, all Christians have produced some level of bad fruit in their lives. and this is because all Christians at times will yield to the flesh and walk after the flesh (Old Man). And whensoever a Christian does walk after the flesh, they will produce the rotten fruit (bad works) of the flesh. please see Galatians 5.

For a born again Christian to bear good fruit, that Christian must abide in Christ and His Holy Scriptures. This is the only way that we can bear fruit. If we want to bear and produce any good fruit in our lives, if we want to live a changed, new and transformed life, we must abide in the Vine, which is Christ and His holy word. And if we as Christians do not abide in Christ, and do not abide in His words, and if we walk after the flesh (the bad tree), then any one of us can go back to our old life of sin. We could even get to a point where we deny the faith and turn from it. Yet though, we will still be saved. A Christian could even become a professing atheist. A born again Atheist????? Yes, it can actually get that bad. And yet, he would still be saved. Why? because the New Nature (Second Birth) is still in him. Just because a Christian lives and walks after the flesh (his first birth), that does not do away with his New Nature (Second Birth).

R.O.S.E

 

[Magenta]

R.O.S.E

What is that?

 

[throughfaith]

You.ll have to explain over and over how this is not a licence to sin . This is what they accused Paul of also . They don't realise that legalism leads to despair ,hopelessness and yes ,sin .

 

[phil36]

Its the usual misunderstanding that people preach against..heres a short word on 'persaverence' please read especially part 3.



Chapter XVII.
Of the Perseverance of the Saints.

I. They, whom God hath accepted in His Beloved, effectually called, and sanctified by His Spirit, can neither totally, nor finally, fall away from the state of grace: but shall certainly persevere therein to the end, and be eternally saved.(a)

(a) Phil. 1:6; II Pet. 1:10; John 10:28, 29; I John 3:9; I Pet. 1:5, 9.

II. This perseverance of the saints depends not upon their own free will, but upon the immutability of the decree of election, flowing from the free and unchangeable love of God the Father;(b) upon the efficacy of the merit and intercession of Jesus Christ;(c) the abiding of the Spirit, and of the seed of God within them;(d) and the nature of the covenant of gracee) from all which ariseth also the certainty and infallibility thereof.(f)

(b) II Tim. 2:18, 19; Jer. 31:3.
(c) Heb. 10:10, 14; Heb. 13:20, 21; Heb. 9:12, 13, 14, 15; Rom. 8:33 to the end; John 17:11, 24; Luke 22:32; Heb. 7:25.
(d) John 14:16, 17; I John 2:27; I John 3:9.
(e) Jer. 32:40.
(f) John 10:28; II Thess. 3:3; I John 2:19.

III. Nevertheless, they may, through the temptations of Satan and of the world, the prevalency of corruption remaining in them, and the neglect of the means of their preservation, fall into grievous sins;(g) and, for a time, continue thereinh) whereby they incur God’s displeasure,(i) and grieve His Holy Spirit,(k) come to be deprived of some measure of their graces and comforts,(l) have their hearts hardened,(m) and their consciences wounded, hurt and scandalize others,(o) and bring temporal judgments upon themselves.(p)

(g) Matt. 26:70, 72, 74.
(h) Ps. 51 title and ver. 14.
(i) Isa. 64:5, 7, 9; II Sam. 11:27.
(k) Eph. 4:30.
(l) Ps. 51:8, 10, 12; Rev. 2:4; Cant. 5:2, 3, 4, 6.
(m) Isa. 63:17; Mark 6:52; Mark 16:14.
Ps. 32:3, 4; Ps. 51:8.
(o) II Sam. 12:14.
(p) Ps. 89:31, 32; I Cor. 11:32.

 

[Godsgirl83]

I'm a nut inspector and your a Pistachio.

this line made me lol so much so my kiddos looked over and asked what's so funny.

 

[throughfaith]

Its the usual misunderstanding that people preach against..heres a short word on 'persaverence' please read especially part 3.



Chapter XVII.
Of the Perseverance of the Saints.

I. They, whom God hath accepted in His Beloved, effectually called, and sanctified by His Spirit, can neither totally, nor finally, fall away from the state of grace: but shall certainly persevere therein to the end, and be eternally saved.(a)

(a) Phil. 1:6; II Pet. 1:10; John 10:28, 29; I John 3:9; I Pet. 1:5, 9.

II. This perseverance of the saints depends not upon their own free will, but upon the immutability of the decree of election, flowing from the free and unchangeable love of God the Father;(b) upon the efficacy of the merit and intercession of Jesus Christ;(c) the abiding of the Spirit, and of the seed of God within them;(d) and the nature of the covenant of gracee) from all which ariseth also the certainty and infallibility thereof.(f)

(b) II Tim. 2:18, 19; Jer. 31:3.
(c) Heb. 10:10, 14; Heb. 13:20, 21; Heb. 9:12, 13, 14, 15; Rom. 8:33 to the end; John 17:11, 24; Luke 22:32; Heb. 7:25.
(d) John 14:16, 17; I John 2:27; I John 3:9.
(e) Jer. 32:40.
(f) John 10:28; II Thess. 3:3; I John 2:19.

III. Nevertheless, they may, through the temptations of Satan and of the world, the prevalency of corruption remaining in them, and the neglect of the means of their preservation, fall into grievous sins;(g) and, for a time, continue thereinh) whereby they incur God’s displeasure,(i) and grieve His Holy Spirit,(k) come to be deprived of some measure of their graces and comforts,(l) have their hearts hardened,(m) and their consciences wounded, hurt and scandalize others,(o) and bring temporal judgments upon themselves.(p)

(g) Matt. 26:70, 72, 74.
(h) Ps. 51 title and ver. 14.
(i) Isa. 64:5, 7, 9; II Sam. 11:27.
(k) Eph. 4:30.
(l) Ps. 51:8, 10, 12; Rev. 2:4; Cant. 5:2, 3, 4, 6.
(m) Isa. 63:17; Mark 6:52; Mark 16:14.
Ps. 32:3, 4; Ps. 51:8.
(o) II Sam. 12:14.
(p) Ps. 89:31, 32; I Cor. 11:32.

Yes this is the cause of Lordship salvation in Calvinism. The error of believing security is based on 'election to salvation '. And never truly knowing if you will ultimately ' endure till the end ' . This is where fruit inspecting begins . After all an ' elect ' person must look like an elect person.

 

[throughfaith]

Its the usual misunderstanding that people preach against..heres a short word on 'persaverence' please read especially part 3.



Chapter XVII.
Of the Perseverance of the Saints.

I. They, whom God hath accepted in His Beloved, effectually called, and sanctified by His Spirit, can neither totally, nor finally, fall away from the state of grace: but shall certainly persevere therein to the end, and be eternally saved.(a)

(a) Phil. 1:6; II Pet. 1:10; John 10:28, 29; I John 3:9; I Pet. 1:5, 9.

II. This perseverance of the saints depends not upon their own free will, but upon the immutability of the decree of election, flowing from the free and unchangeable love of God the Father;(b) upon the efficacy of the merit and intercession of Jesus Christ;(c) the abiding of the Spirit, and of the seed of God within them;(d) and the nature of the covenant of gracee) from all which ariseth also the certainty and infallibility thereof.(f)

(b) II Tim. 2:18, 19; Jer. 31:3.
(c) Heb. 10:10, 14; Heb. 13:20, 21; Heb. 9:12, 13, 14, 15; Rom. 8:33 to the end; John 17:11, 24; Luke 22:32; Heb. 7:25.
(d) John 14:16, 17; I John 2:27; I John 3:9.
(e) Jer. 32:40.
(f) John 10:28; II Thess. 3:3; I John 2:19.

III. Nevertheless, they may, through the temptations of Satan and of the world, the prevalency of corruption remaining in them, and the neglect of the means of their preservation, fall into grievous sins;(g) and, for a time, continue thereinh) whereby they incur God’s displeasure,(i) and grieve His Holy Spirit,(k) come to be deprived of some measure of their graces and comforts,(l) have their hearts hardened,(m) and their consciences wounded, hurt and scandalize others,(o) and bring temporal judgments upon themselves.(p)

(g) Matt. 26:70, 72, 74.
(h) Ps. 51 title and ver. 14.
(i) Isa. 64:5, 7, 9; II Sam. 11:27.
(k) Eph. 4:30.
(l) Ps. 51:8, 10, 12; Rev. 2:4; Cant. 5:2, 3, 4, 6.
(m) Isa. 63:17; Mark 6:52; Mark 16:14.
Ps. 32:3, 4; Ps. 51:8.
(o) II Sam. 12:14.
(p) Ps. 89:31, 32; I Cor. 11:32.

///They, whom God hath accepted in His Beloved, effectually called, and sanctified by His Spirit, can neither totally, nor finally, fall away from the state of grace: but shall certainly persevere therein to the end, and be eternally saved.(a)/// Whole world of issues with this teaching here . The main issue is ,you can never know .

 

[phil36]

///They, whom God hath accepted in His Beloved, effectually called, and sanctified by His Spirit, can neither totally, nor finally, fall away from the state of grace: but shall certainly persevere therein to the end, and be eternally saved.(a)/// Whole world of issues with this teaching here . The main issue is ,you can never know .

Chapter XVIII.
Of the Assurance of Grace and Salvation.

I. Although hypocrites and other unregenerate men may vainly deceive themselves with false hopes, and carnal presumptions of being in the favour of God, and estate of salvation;(a) which hope of theirs shall perishb) yet such as truly believe in the Lord Jesus, and love Him in sincerity, endeavouring to walk in all good conscience before Him, may, in this life, be certainly assured that they are in the state of grace,(c) and may rejoice in the hope of the glory of God, which hope shall never make them ashamed.(d)

(a) Job 8:13, 14; Mic. 3:11; Deut. 29:19; John 8:41.
(b) Matt. 7:22, 23.
(c) I John 2:3; I John 3:14, 18, 19, 21, 24; I John 5:13.
(d) Rom. 5:2, 5.

II. This certainty is not a bare conjectural and probable persuasion, grounded upon a fallible hope;(e) but an infallible assurance of faith, founded upon the divine truth of the promises of salvation,(f) the inward evidence of those graces unto which these promises are made,(g) the testimony of the Spirit of adoption witnessing with our spirits that we are the children of Godh) which Spirit is the earnest of our inheritance, whereby we are sealed to the day of redemption.(i)

(e) Heb. 6:11, 19.
(f) Heb. 6:17, 18.
(g) II Pet. 1:4, 5, 10, 11; I John 2:3; I John 3:14; II Cor. 1:12.
(h) Rom. 8:15, 16.
(i) Eph. 1:13, 14; Eph. 4:30; II Cor. 1:21, 22.

III. This infallible assurance doth not so belong to the essence of faith, but that a true believer may wait long, and conflict with many difficulties before he be partaker of itk) yet, being enabled by the Spirit to know the things which are freely given him of God, he may without extraordinary revelation, in the right use of ordinary means, attain thereunto.(l) And therefore it is the duty of everyone to give all diligence to make his calling and election sure;(m) that thereby his heart may be enlarged in peace and joy in the Holy Ghost, in love and thankfulness to God, and in strength and cheerfulness in the duties of obedience, the proper fruits of this assurancen) so far is it from inclining men to looseness.(o)

(k) I John 5:13; Isa. 50:10; Mark 9:24; Ps. 88 throughout; Ps. 77 to ver. 12.
(l) I Cor. 2:12; I John 4:13; Heb. 6:11, 12; Eph. 3:17, 18, 19.
(m) II Pet. 1:10.
Rom. 5:1, 2, 5; Rom. 14:17; Rom. 15:13; Eph. 1:3, 4; Ps. 4:6, 7; Ps. 119:32.
(o) I John 2:1, 2; Rom. 6:1, 2; Tit. 2:11, 12, 14; II Cor. 7:1; Rom. 8:1, 12; I John 3:2, 3; Ps. 130:4; I John 1:6, 7.

IV. True believers may have the assurance of their salvation divers ways shaken, diminished, and intermitted; as, by negligence in preserving of it, by falling into some special sin, which woundeth the conscience and grieveth the Spirit; by some sudden or vehement temptation, by God’s withdrawing the light of His countenance, and suffering even such as fear Him to walk in darkness and to have no lightp) yet are they never so utterly destitute of that seed of God, and life of faith, that love of Christ and the brethren, that sincerity of heart, and conscience of duty, out of which, by the operation of the Spirit, this assurance may, in due time, be revived;(q) and by the which, in the mean time, they are supported from utter despair.(r)

(p) Cant. 5:2, 3, 6; Ps. 51:8, 12, 14; Eph. 4:30, 31; Ps. 77:1 to 10; Matt. 26:69, 70, 71, 72; Ps. 31:22; Ps. 88 throughout; Isa. 50:10.
(q) I John 3:9; Luke 22:32; Job 13:15; Ps. 73:15; Ps. 51:8, 12; Isa. 50:10.
(r) Mic. 7:7, 8, 9; Jer. 32:40; Isa. 54:7, 8, 9, 10; Ps. 22:1; Ps. 88 throughout.

 

[throughfaith]

Chapter XVIII.
Of the Assurance of Grace and Salvation.

I. Although hypocrites and other unregenerate men may vainly deceive themselves with false hopes, and carnal presumptions of being in the favour of God, and estate of salvation;(a) which hope of theirs shall perishb) yet such as truly believe in the Lord Jesus, and love Him in sincerity, endeavouring to walk in all good conscience before Him, may, in this life, be certainly assured that they are in the state of grace,(c) and may rejoice in the hope of the glory of God, which hope shall never make them ashamed.(d)

(a) Job 8:13, 14; Mic. 3:11; Deut. 29:19; John 8:41.
(b) Matt. 7:22, 23.
(c) I John 2:3; I John 3:14, 18, 19, 21, 24; I John 5:13.
(d) Rom. 5:2, 5.

II. This certainty is not a bare conjectural and probable persuasion, grounded upon a fallible hope;(e) but an infallible assurance of faith, founded upon the divine truth of the promises of salvation,(f) the inward evidence of those graces unto which these promises are made,(g) the testimony of the Spirit of adoption witnessing with our spirits that we are the children of Godh) which Spirit is the earnest of our inheritance, whereby we are sealed to the day of redemption.(i)

(e) Heb. 6:11, 19.
(f) Heb. 6:17, 18.
(g) II Pet. 1:4, 5, 10, 11; I John 2:3; I John 3:14; II Cor. 1:12.
(h) Rom. 8:15, 16.
(i) Eph. 1:13, 14; Eph. 4:30; II Cor. 1:21, 22.

III. This infallible assurance doth not so belong to the essence of faith, but that a true believer may wait long, and conflict with many difficulties before he be partaker of itk) yet, being enabled by the Spirit to know the things which are freely given him of God, he may without extraordinary revelation, in the right use of ordinary means, attain thereunto.(l) And therefore it is the duty of everyone to give all diligence to make his calling and election sure;(m) that thereby his heart may be enlarged in peace and joy in the Holy Ghost, in love and thankfulness to God, and in strength and cheerfulness in the duties of obedience, the proper fruits of this assurancen) so far is it from inclining men to looseness.(o)

(k) I John 5:13; Isa. 50:10; Mark 9:24; Ps. 88 throughout; Ps. 77 to ver. 12.
(l) I Cor. 2:12; I John 4:13; Heb. 6:11, 12; Eph. 3:17, 18, 19.
(m) II Pet. 1:10.
Rom. 5:1, 2, 5; Rom. 14:17; Rom. 15:13; Eph. 1:3, 4; Ps. 4:6, 7; Ps. 119:32.
(o) I John 2:1, 2; Rom. 6:1, 2; Tit. 2:11, 12, 14; II Cor. 7:1; Rom. 8:1, 12; I John 3:2, 3; Ps. 130:4; I John 1:6, 7.

IV. True believers may have the assurance of their salvation divers ways shaken, diminished, and intermitted; as, by negligence in preserving of it, by falling into some special sin, which woundeth the conscience and grieveth the Spirit; by some sudden or vehement temptation, by God’s withdrawing the light of His countenance, and suffering even such as fear Him to walk in darkness and to have no lightp) yet are they never so utterly destitute of that seed of God, and life of faith, that love of Christ and the brethren, that sincerity of heart, and conscience of duty, out of which, by the operation of the Spirit, this assurance may, in due time, be revived;(q) and by the which, in the mean time, they are supported from utter despair.(r)

(p) Cant. 5:2, 3, 6; Ps. 51:8, 12, 14; Eph. 4:30, 31; Ps. 77:1 to 10; Matt. 26:69, 70, 71, 72; Ps. 31:22; Ps. 88 throughout; Isa. 50:10.
(q) I John 3:9; Luke 22:32; Job 13:15; Ps. 73:15; Ps. 51:8, 12; Isa. 50:10.
(r) Mic. 7:7, 8, 9; Jer. 32:40; Isa. 54:7, 8, 9, 10; Ps. 22:1; Ps. 88 throughout.

Basically you believe Jesus did not die for everone . So there is no scripture that says he died for you .

 

[phil36]

Basically you believe Jesus did not die for everone . So there is no scripture that says he died for you .

Hi throughfaith, I'm not sure if you read my post (no.10) as it answers your very question.

 

[throughfaith]

Hi throughfaith, I'm not sure if you read my post (no.10) as it answers your very question.

yes i know the script. But there's no way you can know that you will persevere . That you are one of the elect. You have to monitor the fruit. This is why so many famous Calvinists were quoted in despair on their death beds not knowing if they had the fruit of the elect all along .

 

[phil36]

yes i know the script. But there's no way you can know that you will persevere . That you are one of the elect. You have to monitor the fruit. This is why so many famous Calvinists were quoted in despair on their death beds not knowing if they had the fruit of the elect all along .

I'll refer you back to post no.6 which also answers your very question.

As for 'so many famous' Calvinists being in despair on their deathbeds i have no idea. Can you give references from reputable sources for that? (not just hearsay). It means I can check that statement for its validity. thanks.

 

[Scribe]

then any one of us can go back to our old life of sin. We could even get to a point where we deny the faith and turn from it. Yet though, we will still be saved.​

You don't have to be a theologian to recognize false doctrine.

 

[crossnote]

///They, whom God hath accepted in His Beloved, effectually called, and sanctified by His Spirit, can neither totally, nor finally, fall away from the state of grace: but shall certainly persevere therein to the end, and be eternally saved.(a)/// Whole world of issues with this teaching here . The main issue is ,you can never know .

It doesn't take being a Calvinist to believe this...

Philippians 1:6 (KJV) Being confident of this very thing, that he which hath begun a good work in you will perform it until the day of Jesus Christ:

 

[Dino246]

Sometimes I wonder who gets more virtual ink on this site... Jesus, or Calvin (for and against).

 

[phil36]

Sometimes I wonder who gets more virtual ink on this site... Jesus, or Calvin.

If we were to read Calvins writings we would talk more about Jesus. But we'r lumbered with terminology. I suppose its how we communicate rightly or wrongly.

I would say Calvinism rightly teaches about Jesus... Does that count as not mentioning Calvin?

 

[crossnote]

If we were to read Calvins writings we would talk more about Jesus. But we'r lumbered with terminology. I suppose its how we communicate rightly or wrongly.

I would say Calvinism rightly teaches about Jesus... Does that count as not mentioning Calvin?

I'd rather hear about Jesus from Paul. Peter or John etc.. Calvin seems a bit filtered. lol.

 

[phil36]

I'd rather hear about Jesus from Paul. Peter or John etc.. Calvin seems a bit filtered. lol.

Hi crossnote,

lol I had written a longer post but I like,... the filtered part...