Poll: Do "One Taken/Other Left" Verses Refer To Secret Rapture or Second Coming?
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The 'one taken' group is being compared to those taken in the flood, which would make the 'one taken' the wicked.
The one taken group, is synonymous with Matt.24:30-31, where at which time the Lord returns to the earth to end the age and sends his angels to go throughout the earth to gather the the wicked who will have made it alive through the entire wrath of God. These are gathered together and killed by the double-edged sword which proceeds from the mouth of the Lord, which is symbolic representing the word of God. Then according to Rev.19:17-18, an angel calls all of the birds to gather them to the great super of God to eat their flesh. This is supported by when the Lord said to His disciples 'One will be taken and the other left.' and the disciples responded with "Where, Lord?' That is, 'where are they taken?' Jesus answered, “Wherever there is a carcass (dead body), there the vultures will gather.” ," which is referring to the birds that the angel will have gathered to eat the flesh of the wicked.
The 'one take and one left' is also synonymous with the parable in Matt.13 of the weeds and the wheat. The scripture states that the harvesters, which represent the angels, are to first collect the weeds (one taken), then gather my wheat (Righteous) into my barn.
The one taken group, is synonymous with Matt.24:30-31, where at which time the Lord returns to the earth to end the age and sends his angels to go throughout the earth to gather the the wicked who will have made it alive through the entire wrath of God. These are gathered together and killed by the double-edged sword which proceeds from the mouth of the Lord, which is symbolic representing the word of God. Then according to Rev.19:17-18, an angel calls all of the birds to gather them to the great super of God to eat their flesh. This is supported by when the Lord said to His disciples 'One will be taken and the other left.' and the disciples responded with "Where, Lord?' That is, 'where are they taken?' Jesus answered, “Wherever there is a carcass (dead body), there the vultures will gather.” ," which is referring to the birds that the angel will have gathered to eat the flesh of the wicked.
The 'one take and one left' is also synonymous with the parable in Matt.13 of the weeds and the wheat. The scripture states that the harvesters, which represent the angels, are to first collect the weeds (one taken), then gather my wheat (Righteous) into my barn.
Revelation should only be interpreted as symbolic where the context supports it. For example: The woman clothed with the sun, with the moon under her feet and wearing a crown of twelve stars, is symbolism. A red dragon with seven heads, ten horns and seven crowns, is symbolic. None of the plagues of wrath are symbolic, but will literally take place. Therefore, when for example the 5th trumpet is sounded, an angel is going to open the Abyss releasing demonic beings resembling locusts, whose main purpose will be to torment the inhabitants of the earth for five months with stings like that of a scorpion. The seals, trumpets and bowl judgments will all take place literally.
The words 'sign' or 'signified' are just the way in which the information is being presented. There is nothing mystical about those words. They don't detract from the literal meaning.
The words 'sign' or 'signified' are just the way in which the information is being presented. There is nothing mystical about those words. They don't detract from the literal meaning.
For Example:
(Symbolic) when the context clearly shows (The Souls) of dead tribulation saints, and many claim this represents a (Literal) physical 1,000 Millennial Kingdom on this earth, with moral humans being present
(The Souls) seen, do not have earthly physical bodies, and they are in the Lords (Spiritual Realm) of one day is a thousand years, no (Literal) earthly time (Symbolic), Be Not Ignorant
2 Peter 3:8KJV
8 But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day.
Revelation 20:4KJV
4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.
(Symbolic) when the context clearly shows (The Souls) of dead tribulation saints, and many claim this represents a (Literal) physical 1,000 Millennial Kingdom on this earth, with moral humans being present
(The Souls) seen, do not have earthly physical bodies, and they are in the Lords (Spiritual Realm) of one day is a thousand years, no (Literal) earthly time (Symbolic), Be Not Ignorant
2 Peter 3:8KJV
8 But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day.
Revelation 20:4KJV
4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.
No it isn't. The ones taken are the ones that died in the wipeout that is coming when the terrestrial earth packs up for the celestial to take over. And the reason is because they did not put on their wedding garment in life alive - which means they did not immortalise their body in life alive, therefore, they cannot enter into a heavens world as heaven is not ghost world, and you need to have your Celestial body, soul and Spirit intact to gain entrance into the New Salem.. These people will go to Abrahams Bosom (for children of the kingdom) and into the depths of hell (for tares), where they will wait for the resurrection, most likely the 2nd resurrection.
while those that stay behind, are those that will reign will christ 1000 years, which is one day in Heavens system of counting. And this earth will transfigure into a celestial heavens world. So the reign is not in an earth like this, but in the New Salem for 1 celestial day.
while those that stay behind, are those that will reign will christ 1000 years, which is one day in Heavens system of counting. And this earth will transfigure into a celestial heavens world. So the reign is not in an earth like this, but in the New Salem for 1 celestial day.
You are confusing who is taken to safety and who is left to suffer the wrath of God. The timeframe is the second coming and we all know the first thing that happen on the Earth is the righteous are raptured upwards and the rest of the Earth suffers wrath. One taken is raptured, the one left out of the rapture is the one who suffers wrath. Remember that the ONLY people on the Earth at that time are the unsaved.
Everyone knows that. We are talking about who is taken and who is not taken at the one and only second coming. So far you have them confused. The only ones "left" or remaining as you put it will be the unsaved. The saved were raptured to be with Christ in the clouds of the Earth proving the one left is the one suffering the wrath of God.
no, you have it confused. As it were in the days of Noah, so too shall the coming of the Son of Man be.
In the days of Noah, who was taken, and who was left?
The end of the terrestrial earth is an event that will wipe out everything, all animals, all humans, every living thing. So the only people that survive that, are the people that have conquered death. Meaning, the bodies they have are immortal.
Just as Noah and his family boarded the ARK, and survived the flood, so too shall the people who immoratlised their body survive the end of this world.
In the days of Noah, who was taken, and who was left?
The end of the terrestrial earth is an event that will wipe out everything, all animals, all humans, every living thing. So the only people that survive that, are the people that have conquered death. Meaning, the bodies they have are immortal.
Just as Noah and his family boarded the ARK, and survived the flood, so too shall the people who immoratlised their body survive the end of this world.
Luke 17:27,29 blb -
26 And as it came to pass in the days of Noah, thus also will it be in the days of the Son of Man: 27 They were eating, they were drinking, they were marrying, they were being given in marriage, until that day Noah entered into the ark, and the flood came and destroyed all.
28 Likewise, as it came to pass in the days of Lot, they were eating, they were drinking, they were buying, they were selling, they were planting, they were building; 29 and in that day Lot went out from Sodom, it rained fire and brimstone from heaven and destroyed all.
30 It will be according to these in that day the Son of Man is revealed. 31 In that day, the one who will be on the housetop, and his goods in the house, do not let him come down to take them away; and likewise the one in the field, do not let him return to the things behind. 32 Remember Lot’s wife! 33 Whoever may seek to save his life will lose it; but whoever will lose it will preserve it. 34 I say to you, in that night there will be two upon one bed: The one will be taken, and the other will be left. 35 There will be two women grinding at the same place: The one will be taken, and the other will be left.”d
37 And answering, they say to Him, “Where, Lord?”
And He said to them, “Where the body is, there also the vultures will be gathered together.”
Luke 17:27,29 kjv -
26 And as it was in the days of Noe, so shall it be also in the days of the Son of man. 27 They did eat, they drank, they married wives, they were given in marriage, until the day that Noe entered into the ark, and the flood came, and destroyed them all. 28 Likewise also as it was in the days of Lot; they did eat, they drank, they bought, they sold, they planted, they builded; 29 But the same day that Lot went out of Sodom it rained fire and brimstone from heaven, and destroyed them all. 30 Even thus shall it be in the day when the Son of man is revealed. 31 In that day, he which shall be upon the housetop, and his stuff in the house, let him not come down to take it away: and he that is in the field, let him likewise not return back. 32 Remember Lot's wife. 33 Whosoever shall seek to save his life shall lose it; and whosoever shall lose his life shall preserve it. 34 I tell you, in that night there shall be two men in one bed; the one shall be taken, and the other shall be left. 35 Two women shall be grinding together; the one shall be taken, and the other left. 36 Two men shall be in the field; the one shall be taken, and the other left. 37 And they answered and said unto him, Where, Lord? And he said unto them, Wheresoever the body is, thither will the eagles be gathered together.
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I agree with those saying this passage (and its parallels) correspond with Matthew 13:24,30,39,40,49-50 (re: "still-living" persons at the end of the trib yrs, at the time surrounding His Second Coming to the earth), when the ANGELS will "REAP"
... so that the word "taken" must be understood in the context of WHO is DOING the taking, and TO WHAT END
26 And as it came to pass in the days of Noah, thus also will it be in the days of the Son of Man: 27 They were eating, they were drinking, they were marrying, they were being given in marriage, until that day Noah entered into the ark, and the flood came and destroyed all.
28 Likewise, as it came to pass in the days of Lot, they were eating, they were drinking, they were buying, they were selling, they were planting, they were building; 29 and in that day Lot went out from Sodom, it rained fire and brimstone from heaven and destroyed all.
30 It will be according to these in that day the Son of Man is revealed. 31 In that day, the one who will be on the housetop, and his goods in the house, do not let him come down to take them away; and likewise the one in the field, do not let him return to the things behind. 32 Remember Lot’s wife! 33 Whoever may seek to save his life will lose it; but whoever will lose it will preserve it. 34 I say to you, in that night there will be two upon one bed: The one will be taken, and the other will be left. 35 There will be two women grinding at the same place: The one will be taken, and the other will be left.”d
37 And answering, they say to Him, “Where, Lord?”
And He said to them, “Where the body is, there also the vultures will be gathered together.”
Luke 17:27,29 kjv -
26 And as it was in the days of Noe, so shall it be also in the days of the Son of man. 27 They did eat, they drank, they married wives, they were given in marriage, until the day that Noe entered into the ark, and the flood came, and destroyed them all. 28 Likewise also as it was in the days of Lot; they did eat, they drank, they bought, they sold, they planted, they builded; 29 But the same day that Lot went out of Sodom it rained fire and brimstone from heaven, and destroyed them all. 30 Even thus shall it be in the day when the Son of man is revealed. 31 In that day, he which shall be upon the housetop, and his stuff in the house, let him not come down to take it away: and he that is in the field, let him likewise not return back. 32 Remember Lot's wife. 33 Whosoever shall seek to save his life shall lose it; and whosoever shall lose his life shall preserve it. 34 I tell you, in that night there shall be two men in one bed; the one shall be taken, and the other shall be left. 35 Two women shall be grinding together; the one shall be taken, and the other left. 36 Two men shall be in the field; the one shall be taken, and the other left. 37 And they answered and said unto him, Where, Lord? And he said unto them, Wheresoever the body is, thither will the eagles be gathered together.
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I agree with those saying this passage (and its parallels) correspond with Matthew 13:24,30,39,40,49-50 (re: "still-living" persons at the end of the trib yrs, at the time surrounding His Second Coming to the earth), when the ANGELS will "REAP"
... so that the word "taken" must be understood in the context of WHO is DOING the taking, and TO WHAT END
S
Please post why you believe it is the one or the other. Thanks 
I do believe it is probably referring to the rapture but nothing secret about it. They will rise visibly into the air and just like vultures that circle in one spot in the sky they will all be gathered to that spot which is the meeting of Christ in the air.
People will see them rise until they are no longer visible like Jesus ascension.
I also believe that they will be transfigured and partake of the same visible light glorification as seen upon Jesus on the mount of transfiguration. I believe this because Dan 12 says they will shine as bright as the firmament and like the stars, and also because Peter and Paul both hint at such a glorification in the saints when that even occurs.
There are several scriptures that suggest that we will shine with visible glory when we are changed and rise and absolutely none that say we will disappear from view the moment we are changed. To rise into the clouds is something one would describe from the perspective of viewing the event from below and therefore cannot be a SECRET vanishing where the rising to the clouds is no longer a description.
So my vote would be "Visible Rapture" not Secret.
The question that the disciples asked Jesus "Where Lord" and his answer was not to hell, or to the Lake of Fire, but to the clouds like when vultures gather in one point in the sky because they have found a body.
They understood that those left were those who would suffer the judgments to be poured out on the earth but they wanted to know where the ones who were taken to be saved from it were going. Jesus only gives them a partial answer. They will meet the Lord in the air.
Some think that taken as in the flood of Noah is the interpretation. If so why did the disciples ask "where Lord" if they knew that they would be taken in sudden destruction they would not really care about where, since they were destroyed like the flood. They understood that those taken had an continuation and a destiny and they wanted to know where? They did not ask about the ones left behind and if they had included themselves with the ones being left behind as the saved they would have asked about them, but they were not concerned with those left behind they saw themselves in the ones taken and wanted to know WHERE.
The other reason I believe this is that the Flood of Noah was sudden and final. The judgments at the end are a series of judgments that all contribute to dispossesing the earth of its unlawful inhabitants by the goel near kinsman redeemer Jesus, the Lamb worthy to open the seals of the title deed of planet earth and all those judgments that ensue as each seal, bowl, trumpet etc is released are in a series and not a one day event. There is no One day judgment that wipes out everyone like the flood. It is a series of judgments. How could one be taken in one judgment and the other left as a one day event when that is not how the end time judgments occur. To make the one taken as the one judged would have to be reconciled with the many outpourings of judgments.
What, would one be taken with poisoned waters (1/3 of man) on one day and others left. On another day would one be killed by famine and another left, on another day would one be killed by a 50-100 lb hail stone and another left? There is no One day judgment that would take all away and leave only the saved.
There is no one day flood, or one day judgement that compares with the flood. The creation of the new earth is after the final judgment so that will not work either.
Therefore the comparison with the flood must be the same as when he talked about people marrying and eating and drinking, that day will catch them unaware and the rapture will be the first of the events which will be followed by the series of judgments that will come upon those left behind.
Yes, the Lord Jesus Christ is currently in real time harvesting souls from the Earth and will continue to do so till He comes to rule on Earth for 1000 years.
John told us that the “spirit” of anti-christ is already at work so, all souls of mankind are going through tribulation now... it’s our love for God and our knowing Him that is rooted in our faith in Jesus Christ...we are all being weighed in the balances.
Every generation is being tried and tested by going through some form of tribulation. Every generation encounters the “spirit “ of anti-christ”.
Eventually, the “spirit” of anti-christ will be a human possessed by Satan. That’s the grand finale for the last generation.
John told us that the “spirit” of anti-christ is already at work so, all souls of mankind are going through tribulation now... it’s our love for God and our knowing Him that is rooted in our faith in Jesus Christ...we are all being weighed in the balances.
Every generation is being tried and tested by going through some form of tribulation. Every generation encounters the “spirit “ of anti-christ”.
Eventually, the “spirit” of anti-christ will be a human possessed by Satan. That’s the grand finale for the last generation.
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Please post why you believe it is the one or the other. Thanks
He addresses it in full both to Israel and the church.
The rapture will be the catching up of the church but not all of the church at that time will be caught up.
Scripture suggest that a select part of the church or the ones that are in waiting and have oil shall be the intended.
Since "Israel" is no longer local and literal, but spiritual and worldwide, so to the prophecies of the OT which were local and literal have a dual, worldwide application.
The "battle of Armageddon" refers to the arrival of Jesus as conquering king in the clouds, where the dead and living saints arise to Him in the air, while the wicked drop dead all over the planet.
Gonna be far worse than any battle a person could imagine on the "hill of Megiddo".
The "battle of Armageddon" refers to the arrival of Jesus as conquering king in the clouds, where the dead and living saints arise to Him in the air, while the wicked drop dead all over the planet.
Gonna be far worse than any battle a person could imagine on the "hill of Megiddo".
I appreciate your thoughts. As a Protestant Historicist, I have a different Biblical view on eschatology, one that is in harmony with the great Reformers of the Protestant Reformation, which was the eschatological view of the entire Protestant world until around 150 years ago when Protestantism began to embrace Jesuit eschatology, and today it is fully taken in by it.
What you described is along the lines of Jesuit Futurism, which disregards the prophetic symbolism that a "beast" is a "kingdom" (Daniel 7:17,23 KJV), which means the Antichrist "Beast of Revelation 13" must also be a kingdom. Once again, thank you for sharing
What you described is along the lines of Jesuit Futurism, which disregards the prophetic symbolism that a "beast" is a "kingdom" (Daniel 7:17,23 KJV), which means the Antichrist "Beast of Revelation 13" must also be a kingdom. Once again, thank you for sharing
I fully agree!
And the complete Chapter of Matthew 24 is dedicated to answering the question
(What Shall Be The Sign Of Thy Coming, And Of The End Of The World)
Preterist and Dispensationalist will then look to modern translations where it states (End Of The Age) instead of (End Of The World)
Does the same with the parables of the wheat and states, (End Of The World)
A complete lie,the world never ends, just keeps going from age to age
Matthew 24:3KJV
3 And as he sat upon the mount of Olives, the disciples came unto him privately, saying, Tell us, when shall these things be? and what shall be the sign of thy coming, and of the end of the world?
And the complete Chapter of Matthew 24 is dedicated to answering the question
(What Shall Be The Sign Of Thy Coming, And Of The End Of The World)
Preterist and Dispensationalist will then look to modern translations where it states (End Of The Age) instead of (End Of The World)
Does the same with the parables of the wheat and states, (End Of The World)
A complete lie,the world never ends, just keeps going from age to age
Matthew 24:3KJV
3 And as he sat upon the mount of Olives, the disciples came unto him privately, saying, Tell us, when shall these things be? and what shall be the sign of thy coming, and of the end of the world?
I agree with your point about context...but I can't agree the Trumpets are still future. Jesus gave the prophecy of them, as well as the Churches and Seals, while He was in the Holy Place, which is before He moves into the Most Holy Place and begins cleansing the Sanctuary.
Daniel 8 says "after 2,300 Days, then shall the Sanctuary be cleansed" and we know that these are symbolic days because the 70 Weeks - which virtually all agree are symbolic for 490 years - cannot be "determined" which means "cut off" or "amputated" from 2,300 literal days, but certainly can be cut off from 2,300 symbolic days, or literal years. The starting point for both the 2,300 and the 70 is 457 B.C., which means Jesus moved into the Most Holy Place in 1844. So, the Churches, Seals, and Trumpets are all parallel prophecies which begin in the 1st century when John saw the vision and when Jesus was ministering yet in the Holy Place.
The 5th Trumpet is the rise of Islam in the 7th century, which swarmed over the West and covered almost the exact migration area of the annual locust swarm, and is evidenced by other symbolism (ie., their power was in their ["horses'] tails", which is the flag of Islam).
Daniel 8 says "after 2,300 Days, then shall the Sanctuary be cleansed" and we know that these are symbolic days because the 70 Weeks - which virtually all agree are symbolic for 490 years - cannot be "determined" which means "cut off" or "amputated" from 2,300 literal days, but certainly can be cut off from 2,300 symbolic days, or literal years. The starting point for both the 2,300 and the 70 is 457 B.C., which means Jesus moved into the Most Holy Place in 1844. So, the Churches, Seals, and Trumpets are all parallel prophecies which begin in the 1st century when John saw the vision and when Jesus was ministering yet in the Holy Place.
The 5th Trumpet is the rise of Islam in the 7th century, which swarmed over the West and covered almost the exact migration area of the annual locust swarm, and is evidenced by other symbolism (ie., their power was in their ["horses'] tails", which is the flag of Islam).
I Disagree, (The Sanctuary Being Cleansed) is nothing more than the 7th Day Adventist doctrine, covering for the false prophecy in the supposed return of Jesus Christ in 1844 that failed, (The Great Disappointment)
When the 1844 prophecy failed, it turned into the cleansing of the sanctuary, and (Investigative Judgement), the big (Cover) for the false 1844 date setting of the Millerites/7th Day Adventist
When the 1844 prophecy failed, it turned into the cleansing of the sanctuary, and (Investigative Judgement), the big (Cover) for the false 1844 date setting of the Millerites/7th Day Adventist