Would God Have us Solve Confusion of baptisms?

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Pilgrimshope

Well-known member
Sep 2, 2020
12,168
4,935
113
#81
Grace And Peace, Precious friends. I believe this would honor HIM Very Much, and bring
us a lot closer to "Approval Unto God" by a Prayerful And Careful "study of HIS Word Of Truth,
Rightly Divided."


So, briefly, to begin, so especially new born babes In CHRIST, will be saved a lot of frustration
caused by this prevailing Confusion, let us have a brief introduction, if you will, to "starting
a class" about baptisms, because I think there a very few who have "such a thing."

I know I did not in the "churches" I went to, one "immersing me to Get Saved," found out that
wasn't True, the next, when I inquired about their teaching, giving me an Unscriptural booklet
to explain their "traditional" belief.

The next one I attended, thinking {as a book writer suggested, "he believed was The
Closest thing
to a New Testament church"}, that God Wanted me there, they re-did my
previous immersion, because "it Did Not save me, being symbolic, a supposed obedient
outward expression of an inward faith? {Do babies know Where that is in their Bible?}
= again, their "tradition" = the way they have always "done it." Thanks for patiently
listening to my experiences in H2O.:)

And, as Many of you probably know, there are other Various "traditions" of cleansing
baptisms, by "baby sprinkling, adult pouring, immersions in ONE name, others in
THREE names of God, And, "do it our way Requirement" to be a member of "our church," etc.
How do we know "which" one is actually correct? The Bible Answer will probably Shock
many.

Q: Did you know there Are Actually Thirteen baptisms in The Bible? Bet most have Never
"had a class"
on them. I was Totally Amazed after 35 years "when I Finally Found out the
Real Meaning of water baptism. Ready, Precious friend(s) {who have Not Yet "studied" this
thoroughly}?:

The Important Question, very few are sincerely and humbly asking: Does God
Require
water baptism, to be practiced Today, Under HIS Pure GRACE Dispensation?

For those who say "Yes," we have already seen above, Mass Confusion of "traditions,"
correct? But:

Have you Ever Thought: What IF "God's Answer" Was: "NO!" What would happen? Would not
ALL THE Confusion IMMEDIATELY Disappear into Oblivion? Class, are you "ready to begin,"
And, Be Very RICHLY Blessed By our Wonderful God, And, HIS Word Of Truth, Rightly Divided?

Here is a brief lesson to get us started to thinking, or challenged, anyway:

BaptismS Scriptural SUMMARY!:

LORD JESUS, please open our hearts to ALL of Thy Truth. Amen:

Prophecy/Law: ►►► The Twelve WERE SENT to {water} baptize! ◄◄◄
The TWO "Main" (of 12) baptismS =
A) water, For remission of sins!:
(Matthew 3:5-6; Mark 1:4; Luke 3:3; John 1:31; Luke 7:29-30; Acts 10:37)
(Matthew 28:19; Mark 16:16; Acts 2:38; Acts 22:16; Ezekiel 36:25 KJB!)
+
B) "WITH" The Holy Spirit, Poured Out By CHRIST, for power, signs And wonders!
(Isaiah 44:3; Matthew 3:11; Mark 1:8, 16:17-18; Luke 24:49;
Acts 2:17-18, 38; Acts 8:15-17; Acts 11:16 KJB!)

Rightly Divided (2 Timothy 2:15 KJB!) From "Things That DIFFER!":

Mystery/GRACE!:
►►► Paul Was NOT Sent to {water} baptize! Why Not?: ◄◄◄

Today: Only ONE Baptism = "BY" The ONE Spirit = God's OPERATION,
Spiritually "Identifying" members In (The ONE Body Of) CHRIST!!
(Ephesians 4:5; Colossians 2:12; Galatians 3:27;
Romans 6:3-4; 1 Corinthians 12:13 KJB!)

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Conclusion: God's ONE Baptism Today? = ONE? OR, EQUALS TWO?
completely Non biblical theory quoting several in associated verses which in no way support the posts conclusion . The simple notification of the spirit calling others babies speaking down to them gives it away and shows the flaw of the “ Grace revolution “

this post highlights the aim of this grave doctrine that eliminates everything the Bible actually teaches people to believe and do .

ultimately baptism is not complicated it is a promise from God that your sins are remitted by the death of Jesus Christ and your faith in that truth results in the act of being baptized .

we’re baptized because we believe what God said our baptism , but then somewhere along the line someone said “ hey , do we really need to actually get baptized ? like Gods word said or does the word grace eliminate what God said to do for salvation ?”

Christians always tend to explain things that are plain and offer faith for a believe , away with an explaination that directs them away from belief of what’s plainly written .

we can actually know about baptism if we learn what the scripture says and believe it .

Jesus willingly shed his blood for the remission of sins

“for this is my blood of the covenant, which is poured out for many unto remission of sins.”
‭‭Matthew‬ ‭26:

It’s one of the first principles of the gospel

“For I delivered unto you first of all that which also I received: that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures;”
‭‭1 Corinthians‬ ‭15:3‬ ‭

that’s the same principle as him shedding his blood , he gave his life because we are sinners . Baptism is very very important because it’s actually the only method God has ever provided for remission of sins. So here’s the difference

“Then said Jesus again unto them, I go my way, and ye shall seek me, and shall die in your sins: whither I go, ye cannot come.

And he said unto them, Ye are from beneath; I am from above: ye are of this world; I am not of this world. I said therefore unto you, that ye shall die in your sins: for if ye believe not that I am he, ye shall die in your sins.”
‭‭John‬ ‭8:21, 23-24‬ ‭

or we can believe and be baptized into christs death for our sins

“Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death? Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.”
‭‭Romans‬ ‭6:3-4‬ ‭

so that we aren’t those who die in our sins and are cursed but we who die in the lord and are blessed

“And I heard a voice from heaven saying unto me, Write, Blessed are the dead which die in the Lord from henceforth: Yea, saith the Spirit, that they may rest from their labours; and their works do follow them.”
‭‭Revelation‬ ‭14:13‬ ‭KJV‬‬

the idea that the term grace cancels out clear and basic doctrine is not a good idea

in allOf Gods word baptism is the oath of a clear conscience made by God to the believer who is baptized it’s important in the operation of salvation a
Matter of faith

“The like figure whereunto even baptism doth also now save us (not the putting away of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God,) by the resurrection of Jesus Christ: Who is gone into heaven, and is on the right hand of God; angels and authorities and powers being made subject unto him.”
‭‭1 Peter‬ ‭3:21-


Because of the gospel and what Jesus said

“And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature. He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.”
‭‭Mark‬ ‭16:15-16‬ ‭KJV‬‬

and the understanding of remission of sins when someone hears and is baptized they have Gods own word testifying of salvation

It’s Gidsnoffer and thier answer to a clear conscience knowing thier sins are remitted not because we think it , but because Gid said it and we heard and believed and then did what he said by faith

it’s important it’s about the remission of sins in christs death
 
B

Blackpowderduelist

Guest
#82
When we go through the water at church in that makeshift bath tub ,although I've seen other ' ceremonies ' . I've also heard of folks getting dunked into a literal bath. All this happens after the Holy Spirit immerses us into the body and the old man is killed and is buried, and we are joined to Christ in newness of life. Now we can argue to the cows come home as to its significance as a ceremony and a ' figure ' . But what ever the case maybe ,water does not do anything. Nor is your commitment to do it a prerequisite to anything. Get dunked ? ok fine. Don't get dunked ? ok fine . Its nothing to do with getting saved today .
That's not what scripture says.
 

tourist

Senior Member
Mar 13, 2014
41,315
16,302
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69
Tennessee
#84
I found your OP to be a bit confusing but appreciate the effort it took to compose it. Glad to have you as part of our community. Welcome to CC.
 
B

Blackpowderduelist

Guest
#86
Which verse says without Water baptism you go to hell ?
I never said that. Why don't you read what I have said, and then ask me about what I did say. Instead of imposing words upon me.
 

GRACE_ambassador

Well-known member
Feb 22, 2021
2,963
1,389
113
Midwest
#89
the words in the Bible needed to be looked at in the text they are used.
Baptized, baptism, Baptizing.
Yes, the immediate "texts where they are used," And,
Also God's "Larger Contexts" under which HE "Placed them!" Amen?

God's Prophetic/Law Context:
Israels 12 baptisms:
https://christianchat.com/bible-discussion-forum/12-of-israels-baptisms.197661/

God's Revelation Of The MYSTERY/GRACE Context:
God’s ONE Baptism
https://christianchat.com/threads/gods-one-baptism-for-his-body.197660/post-4498718

Please, Be Very RICHLY Blessed!
 

GRACE_ambassador

Well-known member
Feb 22, 2021
2,963
1,389
113
Midwest
#90
The word baptism. Yep it is washing with water.
throughfaith asked: "Where is water in Romans 6 ?"

Great Question! Well do I remember church of christ elders, years ago, actually
invited my younger brother and me to a "Bible study on "water baptism saves you."
Now, my poor brother didn't know as much as I did at the time, and after about an
hour of discussion, to THEM, he asked the "most stupidest question Ever"
{SAME as above}. Whew!:

One of the older guy's neck turned Beet RED, and he Almost Yelled at us: "It Needs
to be INFERRED! Whew - we knew our pleasant discussion time Was Over, and then
rapidly made our Exit. Hopefully, "good seeds were planted" Especially with one of
the younger lads, that had a Lot of questions of his own.

Today, years later, I still do not believe in this "INFERRED" doctrine,
as this "study" Clearly shows:

God’s ONE Baptism {for Today, Under HIS PURE GRACE!}:
https://christianchat.com/threads/gods-one-baptism-for-his-body.197660/post-4498718

Please, Be Very RICHLY Blessed!
 
B

Blackpowderduelist

Guest
#91
Not washing but submersion or immersion.
From Mark 7:4
such as the washingβαπτισμοὺς
(baptismous)909: (the act of) a dipping or washingfrom baptizó

Romans 6:4
baptismβαπτίσματος
(baptismatos)908: (the result of) a dipping or sinkingfrom baptizó.

It's an absurd notion that one would be so fastidious over baptism yet believes it does nothing.
But those who believe in the efficacy of baptism have no such legalism over the volume of water or method of application. Those who believe in efficacy refer to ancient writing descriptions, and art depicting baptism. Those who say baptism is nothing also reject the fathers and ancient texts but are legalistic about volume and application.
 
May 22, 2020
2,382
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#92
I think, plainly said, water baptism effectually just gets someone wet, but that isn't the point. The point is that the reason it is done is through faith in immaterial spiritual concepts. Maybe this verse puts it better.

1 Peter 3:21-22
21The like figure whereunto even baptism doth also now save us (not the putting away of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God,) by the resurrection of Jesus Christ: 22Who is gone into heaven, and is on the right hand of God; angels and authorities and powers being made subject unto him.

Again, the water itself is meaningless. The answer of a good conscience toward God because of the resurrection of Jesus Christ means everything. It's all about faith.
That is absolutely not true;
Water baptism is required. Start with Acts 2; 38 and many more. You must be a baptist.
 
Mar 4, 2020
8,614
3,678
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#93
That is absolutely not true;
Water baptism is required. Start with Acts 2; 38 and many more. You must be a baptist.
The doctrine of baptism is not formed off of a singular verse. Take Mark 16:16 for example, not believing damns people:

16He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.

Or how about 1 Corinthians 1:17, if baptism was so important why didn't Jesus send Paul to do it rather than preach?

17For Christ sent me not to baptize, but to preach the gospel: not with wisdom of words, lest the cross of Christ should be made of none effect.

And for the record I am not a baptist. Are you one of the those Church or Christ people?
 

TMS

Senior Member
Mar 21, 2015
3,569
1,066
113
Australia
#94
It takes a long time to read the last 20 posts....
“He who believes and is baptized will be saved; but he who does not believe will be condemned” (Mark 16:16).

The thief on the cross was not baptized, so why should we be? “He knows our frame; He remembers that we are dust” (Psalm 103:14).
Neither did the thief on the cross restore what he had stolen, as the Lord directs His people in Ezekiel 33:15. God holds us accountable for what we can do, but He also recognizes the limitations of “dust.” He will not require a physical impossibility. Could the thief have come down from the cross, he would have been baptized. Every person who is able should be baptized.


“One Lord, one faith, one baptism” (Ephesians 4:5).
If anything works and everything works why did God say one baptism.
There is only one true baptism. All other so-called baptisms are counterfeits. The word “baptism” comes from the Greek word “baptisma.” It means “to dip under or submerge or immerse.” There are eight Greek words in the New Testament used to describe the application of liquids. But among these various words—meaning to sprinkle, to pour, or to immerse—only the one meaning “to immerse” (baptizo) is used to describe baptism.
 

presidente

Senior Member
May 29, 2013
9,089
1,750
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#95
The Blessed Virgin Mary was called such because she gave her womb to the GOD at a time when it was impossible for her to procreate as she had not started to go through puberty yet. The children that were called Jesus His Pre-Eminence siiblings, were Josephs children that he had with his first wife. When the Blessed Virgin Mary gave her womb to the GOD, she did not take it back and give it to a man.

Who said she got pregnant before puberty? Your doctrine is not Eastern Orthodox or Roman Catholic on baptism, but you hold to RCC doctrine... plus this pre-puberty thing... on perpetual virginity.

Maybe you treat the Assumption of Moses, the Protoevangel, and the Book of Enoch as if they are all infallible or inspired.

What I see in the Bible is a Jewish man was to provide his wife with food, clothing, and sex. The Bible says Joseph was a righteous man. He knew her not ___until___ she brought forth her first born son. God owns us all. He certainly owns Christians. He owns all kinds of wombs out there. That does not mean that women, or Christian women, cannot have sex with their husbands and have babies. Your argument does not hold up in the light of scripture or plain sense.
 
Feb 22, 2021
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#96
Who said she got pregnant before puberty? Your doctrine is not Eastern Orthodox or Roman Catholic on baptism, but you hold to RCC doctrine... plus this pre-puberty thing... on perpetual virginity.

Maybe you treat the Assumption of Moses, the Protoevangel, and the Book of Enoch as if they are all infallible or inspired.

What I see in the Bible is a Jewish man was to provide his wife with food, clothing, and sex. The Bible says Joseph was a righteous man. He knew her not ___until___ she brought forth her first born son. God owns us all. He certainly owns Christians. He owns all kinds of wombs out there. That does not mean that women, or Christian women, cannot have sex with their husbands and have babies. Your argument does not hold up in the light of scripture or plain sense.
The Blessed Virgin Mary, is a type of Mother Eve. GOD does not violate our right of free will. What this revealed was that Mother Eve willingly gave her womb for the Procreation of the Mankind race.

You keep trying to pin point my affiiliation. Well here it is. I am neither catholic, which is mother harlot, nor am i Protestant, or anglican, or orthodox, or 7th day, i am not mormon, nor any denomination. I am neither from the mother harlot, or her daughters. I have already come out of her.

If you knew what the thunderings meant that were sealed, if you understand what the law and the prophet is, if you discovered who or what the mystery bablyon is, then you would know who your enemey is, and you would understand me better.

The Blessed Virgin Mary, had to be in state where Procreation was not possible, to prove that Jesus His Pre-Eminence is GOD. For neither the seed of any man, or egg of any woman, produced HIS body. Who shall couple the body for GOD, except HIM? This is why HIS body had a "mystery divine nature", and why HE was not born in sin.

And no man touched the Blessed Virgin Mary all the days of her life in the earth.
 

presidente

Senior Member
May 29, 2013
9,089
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#97
And no man touched the Blessed Virgin Mary all the days of her life in the earth.
And you have given us no reason to believe that.

Unrevealed religion is dangerous. Unrevealed religious ideas can lead people astray. Our salvation does not rest on the idea of whether Joseph and Mary performed their marital duties toward one another. But your creative ideas on water baptism are contrary to apostolic teaching and practice on an important issue.
 
Feb 22, 2021
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#98
And you have given us no reason to believe that.

Unrevealed religion is dangerous. Unrevealed religious ideas can lead people astray. Our salvation does not rest on the idea of whether Joseph and Mary performed their marital duties toward one another. But your creative ideas on water baptism are contrary to apostolic teaching and practice on an important issue.
What did John the Baptist teach about Baptism? He is the baptist.
All i will say is this, seek for yourself so that when you discover it, you will see for yourself and are not relying on belief in the things I am saying. I have spoken only that which I have known is true.
 

presidente

Senior Member
May 29, 2013
9,089
1,750
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#99
All i will say is this, seek for yourself so that when you discover it, you will see for yourself and are not relying on belief in the things I am saying. I have spoken only that which I have known is true.
I know that much of what you have written is false, and much of it contradicts what is revealed in scripture.
 
Feb 22, 2021
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I know that much of what you have written is false, and much of it contradicts what is revealed in scripture.
It is not. But again, seek it out for yourself. Or, you will discover it in Abrahams Bosom.