'The rich young ruler ' confusion .

[Guojing]

to my understanding the shepherds to whom angels announced His birth could have been saved, apart from works, that very night according to their faith.

Are you trying to say that, before Jesus was born, Israel had to do works to fulfill that Covenant agreed with God in Exodus 24.

But the moment Jesus was born, you believe works were no longer required?

 

[throughfaith]

it seems from the text he understood very well that he had not earned eternal life, that even tho he kept the law, it was insufficient.
but he came to Jesus asking what he must 'do' to inherit it - he had the mindset that it could be achieved through effort.

i do believe we should respond with exactly what Jesus said to him: "no one is good, but God alone"
is this not exactly how we begin the journey on the 'Romans road'? for all have sinned and come short of the glory of God.
certainly there is more, and Christ went on to do more -- if the young man did dispossess himself of his earthly riches, and became Christ's disciple, following Him, then he himself saw what more there is, too.

THEN there were things THEY had to DO .
Matt 7
24¶Therefore whosoever heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them, I will liken him unto a wise man, which built his house upon a rock:


16.24
24¶Then said Jesus unto his disciples, If any man will come after me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross, and follow me.

 

[throughfaith]

it seems from the text he understood very well that he had not earned eternal life, that even tho he kept the law, it was insufficient.
but he came to Jesus asking what he must 'do' to inherit it - he had the mindset that it could be achieved through effort.

i do believe we should respond with exactly what Jesus said to him: "no one is good, but God alone"
is this not exactly how we begin the journey on the 'Romans road'? for all have sinned and come short of the glory of God.
certainly there is more, and Christ went on to do more -- if the young man did dispossess himself of his earthly riches, and became Christ's disciple, following Him, then he himself saw what more there is, too.

There will be something to DO during the tribulation.
rev 22
14¶Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city.

 

[throughfaith]

it seems from the text he understood very well that he had not earned eternal life, that even tho he kept the law, it was insufficient.
but he came to Jesus asking what he must 'do' to inherit it - he had the mindset that it could be achieved through effort.

i do believe we should respond with exactly what Jesus said to him: "no one is good, but God alone"
is this not exactly how we begin the journey on the 'Romans road'? for all have sinned and come short of the glory of God.
certainly there is more, and Christ went on to do more -- if the young man did dispossess himself of his earthly riches, and became Christ's disciple, following Him, then he himself saw what more there is, too.

In this age there is something he must not do (Rom. 4:5; Gal. 5:4); there is Someone on whom he must believe (Rom .10:9–13) This is the difference with then before the cross , and now .

 

[throughfaith]

Matt. 19:21 is most certainly not the New Testament gospel of salvation by grace through faith!

 

[throughfaith]

it seems from the text he understood very well that he had not earned eternal life, that even tho he kept the law, it was insufficient.
but he came to Jesus asking what he must 'do' to inherit it - he had the mindset that it could be achieved through effort.

i do believe we should respond with exactly what Jesus said to him: "no one is good, but God alone"
is this not exactly how we begin the journey on the 'Romans road'? for all have sinned and come short of the glory of God.
certainly there is more, and Christ went on to do more -- if the young man did dispossess himself of his earthly riches, and became Christ's disciple, following Him, then he himself saw what more there is, too.

Rom 9
31But Israel, which followed after the law of righteousness, hath not attained to the law of righteousness.

32Wherefore? Because they sought it not by faith, but as it were by the works of the law. For they stumbled at that stumblingstone;

 

[Adstar]

Does Jesus mean what he says here ?
18¶And a certain ruler asked him, saying, Good Master, what shall I do to inherit eternal life?

19¶And Jesus said unto him, Why callest thou me good? none is good, save one, that is, God.

20Thou knowest the commandments, Do not commit adultery, Do not kill, Do not steal, Do not bear false witness, Honour thy father and thy mother.

21¶And he said, All these have I kept from my youth up.

22¶Now when Jesus heard these things, he said unto him, Yet lackest thou one thing: sell all that thou hast, and distribute unto the poor, and thou shalt have treasure in heaven: and come, follow me.

23¶And when he heard this, he was very sorrowful: for he was very rich.


Using the observation method of
1) Who?
2) When?
3) Where ?
4 ) what?
5) why?

What do these verses say?
We here a lot about what these verses ' teach ' ,infer , assume , and imply . Many, many theologians and commentators teach what these verses are supposed to teach and imply . But is this done at the cost of what it actually says ?
Can Jesus really mean what he says here ?
What say you ?

Yes Jesus always meant what he said.. But a more detailed view on this happening comes from reading the 3 accounts not Just 1..

The critical information missing from the above can be found in the Matthew account..

Matthew 19: KJV
16 "¶ And, behold, one came and said unto him, Good Master, what good thing shall I do, that I may have eternal life?"

As Christians we know that we inherit eternal life because of the good thing the LORD Jesus did on the cross.. Not by any good thing we do.. Everything after this verse can be understood by knowing Jesus was crushing this guys works salvation mindset.. Jesus made it clear He had to live a perfect life which we all know the guy could not..

Matthew 19: KJV
21 "Jesus said unto him, If thou wilt be perfect, go and sell that thou hast, and give to the poor, and thou shalt have treasure in heaven: and come and follow me. {22} But when the young man heard that saying, he went away sorrowful: for he had great possessions."

After listening to this exchange the Apostles still having the same mindset in exasperation said::

Matthew 19: KJV
25 "When his disciples heard it, they were exceedingly amazed, saying, Who then can be saved?"

But then Jesus responded to them Dropping a hint as to the way they would be saved..

Matthew 19: KJV
26 "But Jesus beheld them, and said unto them, With men this is impossible; but with God all things are possible."

 

[throughfaith]

Yes Jesus always meant what he said.. But a more detailed view on this happening comes from reading the 3 accounts not Just 1..

The critical information missing from the above can be found in the Matthew account..

Matthew 19: KJV
16 "¶ And, behold, one came and said unto him, Good Master, what good thing shall I do, that I may have eternal life?"

As Christians we know that we inherit eternal life because of the good thing the LORD Jesus did on the cross.. Not by any good thing we do.. Everything after this verse can be understood by knowing Jesus was crushing this guys works salvation mindset.. Jesus made it clear He had to live a perfect life which we all know the guy could not..

Matthew 19: KJV
21 "Jesus said unto him, If thou wilt be perfect, go and sell that thou hast, and give to the poor, and thou shalt have treasure in heaven: and come and follow me. {22} But when the young man heard that saying, he went away sorrowful: for he had great possessions."

After listening to this exchange the Apostles still having the same mindset in exasperation said::

Matthew 19: KJV
25 "When his disciples heard it, they were exceedingly amazed, saying, Who then can be saved?"

But then Jesus responded to them Dropping a hint as to the way they would be saved..

Matthew 19: KJV
26 "But Jesus beheld them, and said unto them, With men this is impossible; but with God all things are possible."

What of the man who didn't encounter Jesus then but had been following the law ect ,surely he was saved?

 

[Guojing]

What of the man who didn't encounter Jesus then but had been following the law ect ,surely he was saved?

He conveniently "forgot" to mention the next verse, v27

27 Then answered Peter and said unto him, Behold, we have forsaken all, and followed thee; what shall we have therefore?

 

[Adstar]

What of the man who didn't encounter Jesus then but had been following the law ect ,surely he was saved?

Salvation has only ever been by the Atonement of the LORD Jesus Christ...

No one was saved by attempting to do the law because all failed to do the law without fault.. The law revealed to all honest men that they fell short of the standards of God.. The Law actually had them all guilty and condemned.. It set them up to embrace the real Way of salvation.. Believing Jesus and trusting that the Atonement He secured on the cross paid for them the penalty of their sins..

Romans 3: KJV
19 "Now we know that what things soever the law saith, it saith to them who are under the law: that every mouth may be stopped, and all the world may become guilty before God. {20} Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin. {21} But now the righteousness of God without the law is manifested, being witnessed by the law and the prophets; {22} Even the righteousness of God which is by faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe: for there is no difference:"

Romans 8: KJV
3 "For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh:"

 

[throughfaith]

He conveniently "forgot" to mention the next verse, v27

27 Then answered Peter and said unto him, Behold, we have forsaken all, and followed thee; what shall we have therefore?

They probably had a hindu awakening experience prior Aka Regeneration preceding faith. 😆

 

[throughfaith]

Salvation has only ever been by the Atonement of the LORD Jesus Christ...

No one was saved by attempting to do the law because all failed to do the law without fault.. The law revealed to all honest men that they fell short of the standards of God.. The Law actually had them all guilty and condemned.. It set them up to embrace the real Way of salvation.. Believing Jesus and trusting that the Atonement He secured on the cross paid for them the penalty of their sins..

Romans 3: KJV
19 "Now we know that what things soever the law saith, it saith to them who are under the law: that every mouth may be stopped, and all the world may become guilty before God. {20} Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin. {21} But now the righteousness of God without the law is manifested, being witnessed by the law and the prophets; {22} Even the righteousness of God which is by faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe: for there is no difference:"

Romans 8: KJV
3 "For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh:"

Ultimately 'redemption ' yes . As prior to the cross they only had remission of sins . The old testament saints had to wait in Abraham's bosom waiting for the redemption of the sins under the old covenant.

 

[throughfaith]

Yes Jesus always meant what he said.. But a more detailed view on this happening comes from reading the 3 accounts not Just 1..

The critical information missing from the above can be found in the Matthew account..

Matthew 19: KJV
16 "¶ And, behold, one came and said unto him, Good Master, what good thing shall I do, that I may have eternal life?"

As Christians we know that we inherit eternal life because of the good thing the LORD Jesus did on the cross.. Not by any good thing we do.. Everything after this verse can be understood by knowing Jesus was crushing this guys works salvation mindset.. Jesus made it clear He had to live a perfect life which we all know the guy could not..

Matthew 19: KJV
21 "Jesus said unto him, If thou wilt be perfect, go and sell that thou hast, and give to the poor, and thou shalt have treasure in heaven: and come and follow me. {22} But when the young man heard that saying, he went away sorrowful: for he had great possessions."

After listening to this exchange the Apostles still having the same mindset in exasperation said::

Matthew 19: KJV
25 "When his disciples heard it, they were exceedingly amazed, saying, Who then can be saved?"

But then Jesus responded to them Dropping a hint as to the way they would be saved..

Matthew 19: KJV
26 "But Jesus beheld them, and said unto them, With men this is impossible; but with God all things are possible."

26¶But Jesus beheld them, and said unto them, With men this is impossible; but with God all things are possible.

27¶Then answered Peter and said unto him, Behold, we have forsaken all, and followed thee; what shall we have therefore?

28¶And Jesus said unto them, Verily I say unto you, That ye which have followed me, in the regeneration when the Son of man shall sit in the throne of his glory, ye also shall sit upon twelve thrones, judging the twelve tribes of Israel.

 

[Adstar]

26¶But Jesus beheld them, and said unto them, With men this is impossible; but with God all things are possible.

27¶Then answered Peter and said unto him, Behold, we have forsaken all, and followed thee; what shall we have therefore?

28¶And Jesus said unto them, Verily I say unto you, That ye which have followed me, in the regeneration when the Son of man shall sit in the throne of his glory, ye also shall sit upon twelve thrones, judging the twelve tribes of Israel.

You quoted 3 verses here but i am wondering why? You added no comentary..

 

[Absolutely]

In response to your ridiculously long proof text shopping list .
Ok, you do realise that you could pick any belief within any religion / cult within christendom and list a whole load of 'proof texts 'and say see look all these 'verses 'prove it . You can see that right?

So you are saying nothing in the bible is correct?

If I make a shopping list, as you say , on the resurrection,which is a pillar, does that actually disprove it?

Or on the diety of Jesus?

Fact is,the martyrs all,or at least most,had a chance to either deny Jesus or endure to the end.

Concerning the AC it is said the saints overcame by the blood of the lamb,and the word of their testimony,and they loved not their lives into death....

They died.
They endured to the end.

 

[Absolutely]

26¶But Jesus beheld them, and said unto them, With men this is impossible; but with God all things are possible.

27¶Then answered Peter and said unto him, Behold, we have forsaken all, and followed thee; what shall we have therefore?

28¶And Jesus said unto them, Verily I say unto you, That ye which have followed me, in the regeneration when the Son of man shall sit in the throne of his glory, ye also shall sit upon twelve thrones, judging the twelve tribes of Israel.

You do 2 things to minimize Jesus
1) you showcase the confusion of the disciples concerning both who Jesus was and his mission.
2) you actually believe your silliness that Jesus came to set up his kingdom and failed with the cross being a back up plan.

 

[Absolutely]

You quoted 3 verses here but i am wondering why? You added no comentary..

He is attempting to make Jesus' purpose on his advent one of " the gospel of the kingdom" or setting up a rulership kingdom ( literal kingdom of Jews ) on earth.

Vs

"The gospel of grace " ...that they think ONLY PAUL knew about. As if nobody including peter john and Jesus were aware of.

This tread is a "Pauline only" attack on Jesus and his mission.

IOW JESUS preached a " DIFFERENT GOSPEL" Than paul.

Facepalm

 

[Absolutely]

We have to be careful with " he had the mindset " . We can't read his mind .

" There is none good but God"

Jesus is saying " I am God"

 

[Absolutely]

It is true that the Lord used the Hebrew nation to be caretakers of the word of the Lord, and it is good of you to try to understand that, but you are carrying this Israel/gentile thing too far. The Lord is giving eternal principles we are to watch for, and by only thinking of the difference God makes of the gentiles and Irrael you are missing the principles of the Lord that we are to keep uppermost in our minds.

Yep
It is akin to " well I'm not a Roman,so Romans is only addresses to those living in Rome."

 

[Absolutely]

That is a good rule of hermeneutics and the answers to those questions should be found in scripture or you will have to make a best guess based on reasonings that you present. May the best interpretation prevail.

When I reply later this evening I will be presenting my interpretation of what "enduring until the end" means as it relates to those that are saved. Since that was the last question you presented.

I can tell you I know their doctrine.
I read both their main teachers
One is " greens letters"
The other is les feldick.

Both "Paul only".
Jesus mission,to them, is the law. Not grace.

Facepalm