Homosexual ... and Christian???
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Many are saying that homosexuals cannot change; this isn't true -- there are MANY who have repented of homosexual lifestyle!
As a matter of fact, I KNOW ONE!! This guy is TRULY a man of principle, integrity, mercy, love, zeal and POWER. He FULLY ACKNOWLEDGES that homosexuality is a sin (and WAS his sin); and FULLY REPENTED of that lifestyle -- he even got married!
To say that a person cannot do what is NATURAL (men and women are uniquely compatible...) it just shows a level of UNWILLINGNESS to accept reality the way that it is presented.
As a matter of fact, I KNOW ONE!! This guy is TRULY a man of principle, integrity, mercy, love, zeal and POWER. He FULLY ACKNOWLEDGES that homosexuality is a sin (and WAS his sin); and FULLY REPENTED of that lifestyle -- he even got married!
To say that a person cannot do what is NATURAL (men and women are uniquely compatible...) it just shows a level of UNWILLINGNESS to accept reality the way that it is presented.
Many are saying that homosexuals cannot change; this isn't true -- there are MANY who have repented of homosexual lifestyle!
As a matter of fact, I KNOW ONE!! This guy is TRULY a man of principle, integrity, mercy, love, zeal and POWER. He FULLY ACKNOWLEDGES that homosexuality is a sin (and WAS his sin); and FULLY REPENTED of that lifestyle -- he even got married!
To say that a person cannot do what is NATURAL (men and women are uniquely compatible...) it just shows a level of UNWILLINGNESS to accept reality the way that it is presented.
As a matter of fact, I KNOW ONE!! This guy is TRULY a man of principle, integrity, mercy, love, zeal and POWER. He FULLY ACKNOWLEDGES that homosexuality is a sin (and WAS his sin); and FULLY REPENTED of that lifestyle -- he even got married!
To say that a person cannot do what is NATURAL (men and women are uniquely compatible...) it just shows a level of UNWILLINGNESS to accept reality the way that it is presented.
Even the ministries that are built around changing gays don't claim that they change the person's actual sexuality, they just claim to change their conduct. They're still gay, just trained to be someone they're not, and refuse to enter a relationship with someone of the same-sex they actually love. You may think this is a good thing, that even though they're still gay inside, they force themselves into not engaging in anything with the sex they're attracted to... But that's a pretty horrible and difficult thing to tell someone to do for their entire lives, that they can't be with someone they love.
Also ...the American Medical Association, the American Psychiatric Association, the American Psychological Association, the American Psychoanalytic Association, the American Academy of Pediatrics, and the National Association of Social Workers... have all stated that homosexuality is NOT a mental disorder, that they severely disagree and oppose attempts at therapy seeking to repair or convert homosexuals because it can have harmful psychological effects, and that sexual orientation cannot be changed and is NOT a choice. The professional psychiatric and medical world all agree on this issue.
If the man you know is happy with his life, which he very well may be, good for him. But I know active homosexuals who don't believe it's a sin, worship/follow the Jesus of the Bible, and are also of integrity, mercy, and love. It's pretty cool how there's good people in every camp, isn't it? I know two who also got married, just to the people they loved (who happened to be same-sex.) Yeah, they love each other, and I support their right to spend their lives together.
Also, a quick footnote, the whole "it's not natural" thing isn't just wrong, even if it were right it wouldn't mean anything. It's wrong because homosexuality commonly occurs in nature. Even if it were right though, so what? Vaccines, surgeries, artificial hearts, and baby formula aren't natural, but could you say those are evil?
Also ...the American Medical Association, the American Psychiatric Association, the American Psychological Association, the American Psychoanalytic Association, the American Academy of Pediatrics, and the National Association of Social Workers... have all stated that homosexuality is NOT a mental disorder, that they severely disagree and oppose attempts at therapy seeking to repair or convert homosexuals because it can have harmful psychological effects, and that sexual orientation cannot be changed and is NOT a choice. The professional psychiatric and medical world all agree on this issue.
If the man you know is happy with his life, which he very well may be, good for him. But I know active homosexuals who don't believe it's a sin, worship/follow the Jesus of the Bible, and are also of integrity, mercy, and love. It's pretty cool how there's good people in every camp, isn't it? I know two who also got married, just to the people they loved (who happened to be same-sex.) Yeah, they love each other, and I support their right to spend their lives together.
Also, a quick footnote, the whole "it's not natural" thing isn't just wrong, even if it were right it wouldn't mean anything. It's wrong because homosexuality commonly occurs in nature. Even if it were right though, so what? Vaccines, surgeries, artificial hearts, and baby formula aren't natural, but could you say those are evil?
D
This is what the original poster had to say.
Any attempt at getting the Christian to say otherwise is going to be met with futility.
God says its wrong with a whole slew of other things he says is wrong and we are called to obey because he demands it and he is Holy.
Ya homosexuals are people to, that part has been pounded in. Everyone who sins is also a person. So therefore everyone should be looking to repent and turn to Jesus.
I don't see how this particular group should be singled out and made into a huge topic. We could just as easily say Mothers again drunk driving are terrible people for not wanting me to drink.
All sorts of sinners infiltrate the church and want to get away with things and want them to be acceptable, its the nature of sin and how it propagates.
Trying to convince christians that sin is good and acceptable is what the devil has been doing since day 1.
Its what he is best at.
Any attempt at getting the Christian to say otherwise is going to be met with futility.
God says its wrong with a whole slew of other things he says is wrong and we are called to obey because he demands it and he is Holy.
Ya homosexuals are people to, that part has been pounded in. Everyone who sins is also a person. So therefore everyone should be looking to repent and turn to Jesus.
I don't see how this particular group should be singled out and made into a huge topic. We could just as easily say Mothers again drunk driving are terrible people for not wanting me to drink.
All sorts of sinners infiltrate the church and want to get away with things and want them to be acceptable, its the nature of sin and how it propagates.
Trying to convince christians that sin is good and acceptable is what the devil has been doing since day 1.
Its what he is best at.
I
How does one being gay affect you? Most importantly, how does it affect God? Now, I am not gay, but when one dies, whatever made him gay is no more ALONG with whatever made a man straight. We quote verses all day and swear It's clear cut but the truth is most speak evil of what they don't understand.
The Bible says that the head of every woman is the man, and that the head of every man is Christ? Now based off some of the answers in this very thread, how is this viewed?
What of the women who have no man?
God is a SPIRIT! There is NO male or female.
H
This following text shows the different sins which are clearly each a major sin
1 Corinthians 6:9 (New Living Translation)
9 Don’t you realize that those who do wrong will not inherit the Kingdom of God? Don’t fool yourselves. Those who indulge in sexual sin, or who worship idols, or commit adultery, or are male prostitutes, or practice homosexuality,
1 Corinthians 6:9 (New Living Translation)
9 Don’t you realize that those who do wrong will not inherit the Kingdom of God? Don’t fool yourselves. Those who indulge in sexual sin, or who worship idols, or commit adultery, or are male prostitutes, or practice homosexuality,
The problem is: the homosexual agenda will result in the erosion of freedom of religion -- we already see it happening.
Also, there are court cases being fought right now who take gay marriage as a precedent and basis for their argument, who are arguing for legality of incest.
Also, if you look at the arguments pedophiles make as to why they think you should accept them, they are the same as the homosexuals': they are born that way, so they can't change; they aren't attracted to anyone except children, etc. -- by your reasoning and logic, you must also agree with their practice. The homosexuals' arguments are based on the same arguments.
Also, there are court cases being fought right now who take gay marriage as a precedent and basis for their argument, who are arguing for legality of incest.
Also, if you look at the arguments pedophiles make as to why they think you should accept them, they are the same as the homosexuals': they are born that way, so they can't change; they aren't attracted to anyone except children, etc. -- by your reasoning and logic, you must also agree with their practice. The homosexuals' arguments are based on the same arguments.
well i can see this post is still struggling to find its way. the bible is pretty clear homosexuality is a sin. those who continue to practice it cannot be considered as living a christian life. this is the main point of most of the people that are clearly against accepting homosexuality. if someone is knowingly trying to practice sin they cannot be considered christian. over and over i have read this being said by a multitude of people. seeing as the bible is pretty clear it is hard to refute this.
lets take this to the extreme
so i will mention to them that everything they are talking about also directly applies to anyone in the military. thats right, anyone who is in service to the military is not a christian. you are knowingly engaged in sin. you go out during wartime and break one of Gods commandments, thou shall not kill. any attempt to justify or excuse your behaviour is irrelevant. the bible clearly states it is sin. a sin you are knowingly engaging in. to miss quote or use other parts of the bible to justify or excuse your behaviour is no different than the homosexuals who seek to do the same. there is no justification for sin.
wow, that seems extreme now doesn't it? i am sure many will find it offensive. i am trying to put things into perspective. i will now do this without targeting an individual or group. the bible states X is a sin, anyone who continues to practice X is a sinner and cannot be saved. if you repent for X and then continue to do X, you cannot be saved. if you are engaged in X you cannot use other parts of the bible to justify your being in X. someone who engages in X cannot be a leader of the church. they are not following the teachings of the bible.
Duewell
let he who is without X cast the first stone
lets take this to the extreme
so i will mention to them that everything they are talking about also directly applies to anyone in the military. thats right, anyone who is in service to the military is not a christian. you are knowingly engaged in sin. you go out during wartime and break one of Gods commandments, thou shall not kill. any attempt to justify or excuse your behaviour is irrelevant. the bible clearly states it is sin. a sin you are knowingly engaging in. to miss quote or use other parts of the bible to justify or excuse your behaviour is no different than the homosexuals who seek to do the same. there is no justification for sin.
wow, that seems extreme now doesn't it? i am sure many will find it offensive. i am trying to put things into perspective. i will now do this without targeting an individual or group. the bible states X is a sin, anyone who continues to practice X is a sinner and cannot be saved. if you repent for X and then continue to do X, you cannot be saved. if you are engaged in X you cannot use other parts of the bible to justify your being in X. someone who engages in X cannot be a leader of the church. they are not following the teachings of the bible.
Duewell
let he who is without X cast the first stone
Why do you insist on ignoring that fact that pedophilia hurts and violates children, while homosexuality does nothing of the sort? There is a huge difference between those two things. I've explained this to you already, more than once, why are you still saying the same, broken thing? There's also that when you say that, you're comparing many many people who would never lay a finger on anyone, especially a child, to people who would violate children sexually? Think of people's feelings please 
Duewell,
Actually, that is my exact sentiment, Duewell. I don't believe a person can be Christian and be shedding blood. I don't believe in American Imperialism -- and much less do I believe that a Christian should be on the battle fields doing the dirty work for the multi-billionaires and trillionaires of the earth.
Let's be clear about that.
Secondly, the post BEGAN this way, people got off-topic, and I wanted to steer it back to its place.
We're not casting stones, nor hating. Jesus was not averse to people confessing their sins (see: the Samaritan woman + all the people who had to confess their sins during the baptism of John, which is what "straightened the paths for the Lord" in preparation for His coming), though this was never considered casting stones. He even called the religious people (who THOUGHT THEY WERE RIGHT, and would not REPENT) a brood of vipers -- and that wasn't evil, either.
LaylieCalmMind,
1. To GOD, it is a disgusting (abomination) act, and it "hurts" GOD. Just Adam's eating from a tree that God told Him not to eat from was enough to damn the entire human race. Who got hurt? Any humans? No; God was -- that is "Christianity"! You are talking about something more like humanism (the idea that everything revolves around humans, or the good of humans, or whether humans get hurt) -- and that is why you can't understand why a Christian cannot be a homosexual: you don't see that God is "hurt" when people sin. God is very saddened at sin -- GRIEVED at heart -- moreso than ANY "compassionate" human, since His heart is more tender!
Don't talk about "compassion" like you have a monopoly on it; we cannot compare the most tender and compassionate Heart of God. If you don't "feel" that something is wrong, it is not any indication that it isn't wrong; you just can't feel it, because we've all gone "past feeling" in our wickedness. Sociopaths feel no remorse; and, yet, that is not the barometer by which we gauge what is right and wrong -- humans' sentiments about rightness and wrongness change with the passing of time; but God's never will. His standard remains the same -- always has; always will.
2. Also, redefining marriage and obliterating religious freedom in the process hurts ALL the people who want the freedom to live according to their consciences (the ones losing religious freedom).
I hope this message is clear: it isn't about condemning people! It is about showing people what they should already know -- that 1) they are in sin; 2) the wrath of God is coming on sin 3) God has provided a way to make up for our sins, and to save us from His righteous indignation 4) if we refuse to accept that they are even sinning before God, 5) we can't even repent and accept God's salvation FROM SIN (not to continue in it) & the righteous wrath of God that is coming upon those "crimes". These crimes are, first of all, against God; not humans.
Actually, that is my exact sentiment, Duewell. I don't believe a person can be Christian and be shedding blood. I don't believe in American Imperialism -- and much less do I believe that a Christian should be on the battle fields doing the dirty work for the multi-billionaires and trillionaires of the earth.
Let's be clear about that.
Secondly, the post BEGAN this way, people got off-topic, and I wanted to steer it back to its place.
We're not casting stones, nor hating. Jesus was not averse to people confessing their sins (see: the Samaritan woman + all the people who had to confess their sins during the baptism of John, which is what "straightened the paths for the Lord" in preparation for His coming), though this was never considered casting stones. He even called the religious people (who THOUGHT THEY WERE RIGHT, and would not REPENT) a brood of vipers -- and that wasn't evil, either.
LaylieCalmMind,
1. To GOD, it is a disgusting (abomination) act, and it "hurts" GOD. Just Adam's eating from a tree that God told Him not to eat from was enough to damn the entire human race. Who got hurt? Any humans? No; God was -- that is "Christianity"! You are talking about something more like humanism (the idea that everything revolves around humans, or the good of humans, or whether humans get hurt) -- and that is why you can't understand why a Christian cannot be a homosexual: you don't see that God is "hurt" when people sin. God is very saddened at sin -- GRIEVED at heart -- moreso than ANY "compassionate" human, since His heart is more tender!
Don't talk about "compassion" like you have a monopoly on it; we cannot compare the most tender and compassionate Heart of God. If you don't "feel" that something is wrong, it is not any indication that it isn't wrong; you just can't feel it, because we've all gone "past feeling" in our wickedness. Sociopaths feel no remorse; and, yet, that is not the barometer by which we gauge what is right and wrong -- humans' sentiments about rightness and wrongness change with the passing of time; but God's never will. His standard remains the same -- always has; always will.
2. Also, redefining marriage and obliterating religious freedom in the process hurts ALL the people who want the freedom to live according to their consciences (the ones losing religious freedom).
I hope this message is clear: it isn't about condemning people! It is about showing people what they should already know -- that 1) they are in sin; 2) the wrath of God is coming on sin 3) God has provided a way to make up for our sins, and to save us from His righteous indignation 4) if we refuse to accept that they are even sinning before God, 5) we can't even repent and accept God's salvation FROM SIN (not to continue in it) & the righteous wrath of God that is coming upon those "crimes". These crimes are, first of all, against God; not humans.
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Also, as far as "harm no one; love everyone", we all know that the Truth hurts sometimes; so, if you want to live without hurting anyone, you won't be able to tell the Truth to anyone. The Prophets -- righteous men -- were persecuted for telling people the Truth, and offending them; and Jesus said that if we are persecuted for righteousness' sake, we are blessed; John the Baptist was persecuted for righteousness' sake, and so was Jesus!!! They "hurt" peoples' feelings -- and that is the reason they died! The Apostles died for this, and so did all the other martyrs!
Proverbs 27:6
Faithful are the wounds of a friend; profuse are the kisses of an enemy.
Zech 13:6
And if one asks him, ‘What are these wounds on your back?’ he will say, ‘The wounds I received in the house of my friends.’
Even better would be a saying that goes like this: "Stop Harming God; Start Truly Loving Him -- Worship and Obey Him". That would be better, I'd say.
Proverbs 27:6
Faithful are the wounds of a friend; profuse are the kisses of an enemy.
Zech 13:6
And if one asks him, ‘What are these wounds on your back?’ he will say, ‘The wounds I received in the house of my friends.’
Even better would be a saying that goes like this: "Stop Harming God; Start Truly Loving Him -- Worship and Obey Him". That would be better, I'd say.
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The real issue at heart here is that the world wants the aprroval of God.
The world will have it own belief and acceptance.
The world cannot reason with salvation in Jesus.
Those that follow and love Jesus, must and always live in obedience in Jesus, to God Our Father.
Christians will always witness in understanding, compassion and forgivness, but do not substitute compassion with aproval.
To approve in Jesus would be to lie to the one persihing, that would be condemnation, wether it is about homosexuality or any other sin that will separate one from Jesus.
What the world approves it will approve.
But the word of God is firm in Jesus.
Please understand that speaking to a sin is not condemnation, if one is able to recieve, it is really about the perfect love of Jesus and salvation.
in Jesus, God bless.
pickles
The world will have it own belief and acceptance.
The world cannot reason with salvation in Jesus.
Those that follow and love Jesus, must and always live in obedience in Jesus, to God Our Father.
Christians will always witness in understanding, compassion and forgivness, but do not substitute compassion with aproval.
To approve in Jesus would be to lie to the one persihing, that would be condemnation, wether it is about homosexuality or any other sin that will separate one from Jesus.
What the world approves it will approve.
But the word of God is firm in Jesus.
Please understand that speaking to a sin is not condemnation, if one is able to recieve, it is really about the perfect love of Jesus and salvation.
in Jesus, God bless.
pickles
It seems that the root of the problem is that many Christians would rather listen to the Bible than use their own moral reasoning because they believe that God's word is through the bible. So no matter what Laylie or other pro-homosexuals posts some Christians will never be able to see homosexuality as acceptable.
Personally, I think that homosexuals should be treated the same as any other person. Their homosexuality is not chosen and cannot be changed. Even if they did choose it, it still would not be wrong because they both consent and that's what makes them happy.
If there is a God and his moral code is "perfect" why would he think that homosexuality in itself is wrong if it harmed no one. Why does it taint the spirit? It seems to me that the idea that homosexuality is a sin was created because it was socially unacceptable to be homosexual.
Personally, I think that homosexuals should be treated the same as any other person. Their homosexuality is not chosen and cannot be changed. Even if they did choose it, it still would not be wrong because they both consent and that's what makes them happy.
If there is a God and his moral code is "perfect" why would he think that homosexuality in itself is wrong if it harmed no one. Why does it taint the spirit? It seems to me that the idea that homosexuality is a sin was created because it was socially unacceptable to be homosexual.
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What it seems to your and mine brain and heart doesn't matter -- what it seems to God's "brain" and "heart" is what the center of the matter is: we are servants of GOD, doing what HE DESIRES; not servants of man, doing their (fallen -- by their very natures) man DESIRES. This is GOD'S universe; and GOD will have the -- first, and -- last word. It is not easy to enter this "narrow way"; that is why Jesus said "many will attempt to enter, and not be able to".
He will clean us up and make us straightened out, like He is; nothing else is "acceptable" to Him, but Himself as The Standard -- the way that any earthly father does. True to the heart of a father, though, when we decide to return to His House (and His rules are in operation in His House, unto holiness, "and the fruit thereof is eternal life" -- Romans) from our prodigal living, His Heart is flooded with mercy when He sees us even afar off, and He runs to us, kisses our neck, puts a ring on our finger, puts shoes on our feet, puts the best robe on our bodies, throws a party and rejoices (Prodigal Son parable) -- because He loves us. This happens only when we decide we can't STAND any longer living at the lowered level of sin, and in the specter of death, dearth, and the destitution that is sinful living (what Blessed God considers is [anything that is unlike Him] sin; not what ever we decide is acceptable or unacceptable -- for, that is the very thing we left the house to do: to live how we deemed acceptably or unacceptable, as Adam did); and decide to return to Him and His Home, and Ways. The Bible talks frequently of the possibility of having a love [that is, "of the world"], but it not being of God; you can tell me you love your homosexual partner, and have me agree with you -- you do! -- but, I will tell you the Truth that you CANNOT have the love of the Father in you, on top of that. I will tell you this because I WANT you to experience [and finally find peace and fulfillment in] the Love of the Father; and, to save others from your delusion that spirits are spreading to the human race through your words and lifestyle -- unto more and more individuals losing the grace and power of God.
He will clean us up and make us straightened out, like He is; nothing else is "acceptable" to Him, but Himself as The Standard -- the way that any earthly father does. True to the heart of a father, though, when we decide to return to His House (and His rules are in operation in His House, unto holiness, "and the fruit thereof is eternal life" -- Romans) from our prodigal living, His Heart is flooded with mercy when He sees us even afar off, and He runs to us, kisses our neck, puts a ring on our finger, puts shoes on our feet, puts the best robe on our bodies, throws a party and rejoices (Prodigal Son parable) -- because He loves us. This happens only when we decide we can't STAND any longer living at the lowered level of sin, and in the specter of death, dearth, and the destitution that is sinful living (what Blessed God considers is [anything that is unlike Him] sin; not what ever we decide is acceptable or unacceptable -- for, that is the very thing we left the house to do: to live how we deemed acceptably or unacceptable, as Adam did); and decide to return to Him and His Home, and Ways. The Bible talks frequently of the possibility of having a love [that is, "of the world"], but it not being of God; you can tell me you love your homosexual partner, and have me agree with you -- you do! -- but, I will tell you the Truth that you CANNOT have the love of the Father in you, on top of that. I will tell you this because I WANT you to experience [and finally find peace and fulfillment in] the Love of the Father; and, to save others from your delusion that spirits are spreading to the human race through your words and lifestyle -- unto more and more individuals losing the grace and power of God.