Was the Garden of Eden, literally Heaven on Earth? Was the Earth already fallen except for the Garden?

[Lanolin]

interesting question of OP
Im supposing it was paradise on earth and the garden but was the one planted especially for adam and eve, since God placed them in the garden (he didnt place them in desert, or the grassland, or a city, or a mountain) and gave then food from the trees to eat.

Now most if all the edible trees, plants etc were concentrated in the fertile crescent. We know not every plant on earth is edible. The garden was watered by four rivers,

So I am supposing that outside the garden was more of a wilderness or a drier, less fertile place, and uncultivated. Im not supposing that the entire earth was a garden, just the part where adam and eve lived.

Their punishment was to be banished from the garden and to live where thistles and thorns grew and they had to till the soil cos it was hard.

That is my take on it. cant quite get my head round the other implied scenario that adam and eve somehow singlehandledly ruined the whole earth and everything was just gone to pot because of them. sinc ethey were the only two on earth at that time, there was proabably vast amounts of land and spaces that was not planted especially for them.

 

[Yahcubs777]

interesting question of OP
Im supposing it was paradise on earth and the garden but was the one planted especially for adam and eve, since God placed them in the garden (he didnt place them in desert, or the grassland, or a city, or a mountain) and gave then food from the trees to eat.

Now most if all the edible trees, plants etc were concentrated in the fertile crescent. We know not every plant is edible. The garden was watered by four rivers,

So I am supposing that outside the garden was more of a wilderness or a drier, less fertile place, and uncultivated. Im not supposing that the entire earth was a garden, just the but where adam and eve lived.

Their punishment was to be banished from the garden and to live where thistles and thorns grew and they had to till the soil cos it was hard.

That is my take on it. cant quite get my head round the other implied scenario that adam and eve somehow singlehandledly ruined the whole earth and everything was just gone to pot because of them. sinc ethey were the only two on earth at that time, there was proabably vast amounts of land and spaces that was not planted especially for them.

Here is a question. If it is as you said, why wasn't the serpent (the deceiver) cast out of the Garden as well?

 

[pittsburghjoe]

Romans 8:29
For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren.

Is this saying Adam was conformed to the image of his Son?

 

[phil36]

You just showed Scripture refuting your claim. Moses calls himself a prophet in this verse.

He isn't a Prophet. I think its time to block you.

I don't know where you get your information but to scripture Moses was indeed a prophet.

--And there has not arisen a prophet since in Israel like Moses, whom the LORD knew face to face,- Deut 31:10

--The LORD your God will raise up for you a prophet like me from among your brothers. You must listen to him. Deut 18:15

--This is the Moses who said to the Israelites, ‘God will raise up for you a prophet like me from your brothers.’ Acts 7:37

 

[pittsburghjoe]

interesting question of OP
Im supposing it was paradise on earth and the garden but was the one planted especially for adam and eve, since God placed them in the garden (he didnt place them in desert, or the grassland, or a city, or a mountain) and gave then food from the trees to eat.

Now most if all the edible trees, plants etc were concentrated in the fertile crescent. We know not every plant on earth is edible. The garden was watered by four rivers,

So I am supposing that outside the garden was more of a wilderness or a drier, less fertile place, and uncultivated. Im not supposing that the entire earth was a garden, just the part where adam and eve lived.

Their punishment was to be banished from the garden and to live where thistles and thorns grew and they had to till the soil cos it was hard.

That is my take on it. cant quite get my head round the other implied scenario that adam and eve somehow singlehandledly ruined the whole earth and everything was just gone to pot because of them. sinc ethey were the only two on earth at that time, there was proabably vast amounts of land and spaces that was not planted especially for them.

“cursed is the ground for thy sake;”

I don’t think God is cursing the ground here, I think he is saying Adam is now fallen with the rest of the Earth. I think satan caused everything but the Garden to be fallen ..and when God cursed satan it, in turn, cursed the ground.

Did God start the Garden after satan's fall to give humans a chance at Heaven?

Was the flood about getting rid of the people that satan and his demons caused to fall after creation?

 

[Yahcubs777]

I don't know where you get your information but to scripture Moses was indeed a prophet.

--And there has not arisen a prophet since in Israel like Moses, whom the LORD knew face to face,- Deut 31:10

--The LORD your God will raise up for you a prophet like me from among your brothers. You must listen to him. Deut 18:15

--This is the Moses who said to the Israelites, ‘God will raise up for you a prophet like me from your brothers.’ Acts 7:37

So just ignore where GOD said Moses is not Prophet?

The Prophet like unto me, means that he will lead the global community of the children of the kingdom. GOD said HE is not a Prophet.

6And he said, Hear now my words: If there be a prophet among you, I the LORD will make myself known unto him in a vision, and will speak unto him in a dream.

7My servant Moses is not so, who is faithful in all mine house.

8With him will I speak mouth to mouth, even apparently, and not in dark speeches; and the similitude of the LORD shall he behold: wherefore then were ye not afraid to speak against my servant Moses?

Here GOD is revealing how HE speaks to Prophets. But with Moses, its not so because Moses is not a Prophet. Jews understand this, we know that there is the Law Moses, and the Prophets.

 

[Yahcubs777]

Romans 8:29
For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren.

Is this saying Adam was conformed to the image of his Son?

This is saying the image of Adam before the fall is the image that we will conform to. Adam is the Son of GOD (Luke 3:38) Jesus His Pre-Eminence is the GOD and Father of Adam. HE is GOD the Son, which means GOD in the state where HE can enter into any planet that HE created and hung on air, with HIS physical body that can be seen.

 

[phil36]

So just ignore where GOD said Moses is not Prophet?

The Prophet like unto me, means that he will lead the global community of the children of the kingdom. GOD said HE is not a Prophet.

6And he said, Hear now my words: If there be a prophet among you, I the LORD will make myself known unto him in a vision, and will speak unto him in a dream.

7My servant Moses is not so, who is faithful in all mine house.

8With him will I speak mouth to mouth, even apparently, and not in dark speeches; and the similitude of the LORD shall he behold: wherefore then were ye not afraid to speak against my servant Moses?

Here GOD is revealing how HE speaks to Prophets. But with Moses, its not so because Moses is not a Prophet. Jews understand this, we know that there is the Law Moses, and the Prophets.

I know the answer to that. Lets just imagine for a moment you are right about that passage saying moses is not a prophet. Then why does scripture also say he is. Are the scriptures wrong? double minded?

 

[Yahcubs777]

I know the answer to that, but since your the expert. Lets just imagine for a moment you are right about that passage saying moses is not a prophet. Then why does scripture also say he is. Are the scriptures wrong?

Scripture doesn't say he is. The Great Moses is a sent one, but he is not a Prophet. HE did not hear from GOD inaudibly.

 

[pittsburghjoe]

This is saying the image of Adam before the fall is the image that we will conform to. Adam is the Son of GOD (Luke 3:38) Jesus His Pre-Eminence is the GOD and Father of Adam. HE is GOD the Son, which means GOD in the state where HE can enter into any planet that HE created and hung on air, with HIS physical body that can be seen.

So instead of saying Jesus is in everyone, I should say His image is? Everyone has the potential to become good.

 

[Yahcubs777]

So instead of saying Jesus is in everyone, I should say His image is?

No, not exactly. The image of the transfigured body is in the Spirit Being of Man which is invisible. The Spirit Being is not air, or a force of any kind, the Spirit Being was referred to by Jesus His Pre-Eminence as the "hearts of men". The Spirit Being is a being, it has anatomy, it has the mind, it is the actual person in the physical body. Jesus His Pre-Eminence preached alot about tare spirits disguised in the physical body; tares are unholy spirits.

The image of Man is in the Spirit Being. The Spirit Being, programmed in the soul and baptised into the physical body. The reason why transfiguration is possible is because the Soul, which is like crystal waters, reflects the image of the Spirit Being. And this happens when the yoke (which is the gap between the soul and the physical body is broken, so that the Spirit and the body can become one.

That gap is a hypostatic union, whic allows the Spirit Being programmed in the soul to remain in a physical body. Else, the person will just pass through the body like its a wall. Ghosts can go through walls. So there had to be something that made it possible for Man in the soul to be in a physical body. And that is the Soul.

So when that yoke is broken, then the image of the Spirit Being is reflected by the soul, and that makes transfiguration possible. To get there, the person needs to cross the red sea in his body, and also the river jordan in his body (which is the blood and water of the physical body) to become one with his body.

At that stage, the person cannot die anymore. Death is when the Spirit Being programmed in the soul detatches from the physical body. But when the Spirit and body become one, they have become one flesh and cannot be separated ever again.

 

[phil36]

Scripture doesn't say he is. The Great Moses is a sent one, but he is not a Prophet. HE did not hear from GOD inaudibly.

Of course it does. This scripture you posted does not say that Moses is not a prophet. read from verse 1 that might help you. Scripture is quite clear Moses is a prophet.


--And there has not arisen a prophet since in Israel like Moses, whom the LORD knew face to face,- Deut 31:10

--The LORD your God will raise up for you a prophet like me from among your brothers. You must listen to him. Deut 18:15

--This is the Moses who said to the Israelites, ‘God will raise up for you a prophet like me from your brothers.’ Acts 7:37

 

[phil36]

GOD said HE is not a Prophet

Yahcubs777 this sort of talk is not just an error it is heresy! And its not just the one post either. Please stop posting heretical statements of a christian website. Being in error is one thing, heresy is altogether a different ball game.

 

[Yahcubs777]

Of course it does. This scripture you posted does not say that Moses is not a prophet. read from verse 1 that might help you. Scripture is quite clear Moses is a prophet.


--And there has not arisen a prophet since in Israel like Moses, whom the LORD knew face to face,- Deut 31:10

--The LORD your God will raise up for you a prophet like me from among your brothers. You must listen to him. Deut 18:15

--This is the Moses who said to the Israelites, ‘God will raise up for you a prophet like me from your brothers.’ Acts 7:37

Like unto me, not like me. The two are not the same. GOD said clearly that HE will speak to Prophets in visions, but with Moses it is not so...

I didn't realise the church was this far behind. Moses books, are they included with the Prophets? If not, why if he is a Prophet?

 

[Yahcubs777]

Yahcubs777 this sort of talk is not just an error it is heresy!

GOD made it clear in the verse I posted that Moses is not a Prophet. How is it heresy? The HE capitalised should not be capitalised. That was a mistake. Doesn't change that Moses is not a Prophet. That is why GOD had to speak to him physically.

 

[pittsburghjoe]

No, not exactly. The image of the transfigured body is in the Spirit Being of Man which is invisible. The Spirit Being is not air, or a force of any kind, the Spirit Being was referred to by Jesus His Pre-Eminence as the "hearts of men". The Spirit Being is a being, it has anatomy, it has the mind, it is the actual person in the physical body. Jesus His Pre-Eminence preached alot about tare spirits disguised in the physical body; tares are unholy spirits.

The image of Man is in the Spirit Being. The Spirit Being, programmed in the soul and baptised into the physical body. The reason why transfiguration is possible is because the Soul, which is like crystal waters, reflects the image of the Spirit Being. And this happens when the yoke (which is the gap between the soul and the physical body is broken, so that the Spirit and the body can become one.

That gap is a hypostatic union, whic allows the Spirit Being programmed in the soul to remain in a physical body. Else, the person will just pass through the body like its a wall. Ghosts can go through walls. So there had to be something that made it possible for Man in the soul to be in a physical body. And that is the Soul.

So when that yoke is broken, then the image of the Spirit Being is reflected by the soul, and that makes transfiguration possible. To get there, the person needs to cross the red sea in his body, and also the river jordan in his body (which is the blood and water of the physical body) to become one with his body.

At that stage, the person cannot die anymore. Death is when the Spirit Being programmed in the soul detatches from the physical body. But when the Spirit and body become one, they have become one flesh and cannot be separated ever again.

Can the image of the Spirit Being be used to access sin on the Cross even if it didn't make it past the yoke?

 

[Dino246]

He isn't a Prophet. I think its time to block you.

It's ridiculous to put someone on Ignore simply because they disagree with you.

 

[Dino246]

Yahcubs777 this sort of talk is not just an error it is heresy! And its not just the one post either. Please stop posting heretical statements of a christian website. Being in error is one thing, heresy is altogether a different ball game.

Spare yourself the aggravation. Yahcubs is stubbornly resistant to correction.

 

[Yahcubs777]

Can the image of the Spirit Being be used to access sin on the Cross even if it didn't make it past the yoke?

The Sin on the cross, is mortality. That is the original sin of Man that HE took when HE made HIMSELF mortal at the last supper. Transfiguration is putting off mortality and putting on immortality in life without dying at all. For those at the resurrection, it is putting on the body they had, that is (quickened) or transfigured by their Spirit Being.

Jesus His Pre-Eminence on the cross was preaching the message of crossing from mortality into immortalty. The proof is that when HE said:

46 And about the ninth hour Jesus cried with a loud voice, saying, Eli, Eli, lama sabachthani? that is to say, My God, my God, why hast thou forsaken me?

47 Some of them that stood there, when they heard that, said, This man calleth for Elias.

Notice that the people standing there said: This man calls for Elijah? Why? Because Elisha said the same thing. But they removed the whole thing and GOD was reminding them of what happens when you forsake the Prophet.

Look at what they wrote in 2 kings 2.
12 And Elisha saw it, and he cried, My father, my father, the chariot of Israel, and the horsemen thereof. And he saw him no more: and he took hold of his own clothes, and rent them in two pieces.

They wrote: The chariot of Israel and the horsemen thereof. This doesn't make sense.

GOD revealed what it was that Elisha said as Elijah transfigured and ascended... My GOD my GOD why hast thou forsaken me.

If you read it without revelations, its difficult to catch. Preachers have preached for a millenia trying to explain this. But they haven't understood transfiguration. So it was impossible for them to stitch the two...

Elisha was not supposed to be left behind. He was supposed to transfigure with Elijah. But Elisha did not successfuly gain the launch into jericho - which means he did not put off mortality and put on immortality in life, like Elijah did.

And the last thing i want to point out, is that when they pierced HIS left side, (pointing to the body), blood and water spilled out. Why? Literally you think its just because that is what is in the body, but it was pointing to the crossing of the red sea of Moses, and the crossing of the River Jordan of Joshua to the Promised Land.

 

[Lanolin]

Here is a question. If it is as you said, why wasn't the serpent (the deceiver) cast out of the Garden as well?

the serpent was punished by losing his legs and had to crawl on his belly and eat dust.

You will have to ask God about that as to why he wasnt punished the same way as adam and eve.