How to be Born Again

  • Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.

    If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!

    To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.
Jan 31, 2021
8,658
1,064
113
I am of course aware of Jeremiah 31:31, but Jeremiah was also a prophet sent to Israel.
Well, there you go.

The new covenant will be made with Israel the nation as jer 31:31 and heb 8:8 stated, so you cannot simultaneously reject replacement theology and believe that it is already in place at the same time.
Of course I can. What you seem to fail to understand is that the NT is that the NC is what Jesus brought during His First Advent.

In fact, Paul wrote this in Galatians 3-

6 So also Abraham “believed God, and it was credited to him as righteousness.”
7 Understand, then, that those who have faith are children of Abraham.
8 Scripture foresaw that God would justify the Gentiles by faith, and announced the gospel in advance to Abraham: “All nations will be blessed through you.”
9 So those who rely on faith are blessed along with Abraham, the man of faith.
10 For all who rely on the works of the law are under a curse, as it is written: “Cursed is everyone who does not continue to do everything written in the Book of the Law.”
11 Clearly no one who relies on the law is justified before God, because “the righteous will live by faith.”
12 The law is not based on faith; on the contrary, it says, “The person who does these things will live by them.”
13 Christ redeemed us from the curse of the law by becoming a curse for us, for it is written: “Cursed is everyone who is hung on a pole.”
14 He redeemed us in order that the blessing given to Abraham might come to the Gentiles through Christ Jesus, so that by faith we might receive the promise of the Spirit.

Now keep all this in mind as we continue:

16 The promises were spoken to Abraham and to his seed. Scripture does not say “and to seeds,” meaning many people, but “and to your seed,” meaning one person, who is Christ.
17 What I mean is this: The law, introduced 430 years later, does not set aside the covenant previously established by God and thus do away with the promise.
18 For if the inheritance depends on the law, then it no longer depends on the promise; but God in his grace gave it to Abraham through a promise.
19 Why, then, was the law given at all? It was added because of transgressions until the Seed to whom the promise referred had come. The law was given through angels and entrusted to a mediator.

And...

21 Is the law, therefore, opposed to the promises of God? Absolutely not! For if a law had been given that could impart life, then righteousness would certainly have come by the law.
22 But Scripture has locked up everything under the control of sin, so that what was promised, being given through faith in Jesus Christ, might be given to those who believe.

So, if you have understood these verses, your questions should be all cleared up. If not, I'm available for explanation.

If you do, then you have to answer the question, who is the Israel that the new covenant was made with now?
See Galatians 3 and the verses above.

Again, I'm open to explanation, but I expect the verses are clear enough on their own.
 
Jan 12, 2019
7,497
1,399
113
Well, there you go.


Of course I can. What you seem to fail to understand is that the NT is that the NC is what Jesus brought during His First Advent.

In fact, Paul wrote this in Galatians 3-

6 So also Abraham “believed God, and it was credited to him as righteousness.”
7 Understand, then, that those who have faith are children of Abraham.
8 Scripture foresaw that God would justify the Gentiles by faith, and announced the gospel in advance to Abraham: “All nations will be blessed through you.”
9 So those who rely on faith are blessed along with Abraham, the man of faith.
10 For all who rely on the works of the law are under a curse, as it is written: “Cursed is everyone who does not continue to do everything written in the Book of the Law.”
11 Clearly no one who relies on the law is justified before God, because “the righteous will live by faith.”
12 The law is not based on faith; on the contrary, it says, “The person who does these things will live by them.”
13 Christ redeemed us from the curse of the law by becoming a curse for us, for it is written: “Cursed is everyone who is hung on a pole.”
14 He redeemed us in order that the blessing given to Abraham might come to the Gentiles through Christ Jesus, so that by faith we might receive the promise of the Spirit.

Now keep all this in mind as we continue:

16 The promises were spoken to Abraham and to his seed. Scripture does not say “and to seeds,” meaning many people, but “and to your seed,” meaning one person, who is Christ.
17 What I mean is this: The law, introduced 430 years later, does not set aside the covenant previously established by God and thus do away with the promise.
18 For if the inheritance depends on the law, then it no longer depends on the promise; but God in his grace gave it to Abraham through a promise.
19 Why, then, was the law given at all? It was added because of transgressions until the Seed to whom the promise referred had come. The law was given through angels and entrusted to a mediator.

And...

21 Is the law, therefore, opposed to the promises of God? Absolutely not! For if a law had been given that could impart life, then righteousness would certainly have come by the law.
22 But Scripture has locked up everything under the control of sin, so that what was promised, being given through faith in Jesus Christ, might be given to those who believe.

So, if you have understood these verses, your questions should be all cleared up. If not, I'm available for explanation.


See Galatians 3 and the verses above.

Again, I'm open to explanation, but I expect the verses are clear enough on their own.
In the first place, None of those verses you used mentioned the term “new covenant” so how can they be clear enough?

In case you are unaware, Paul is saying that we are saved by being in the body of Christ. He is not saying we are saved thru the new covenant.

Why not take the clarity of Hebrews 8:8 and Jeremiah 31:31 when it comes to the subject “new covenant”?
 
Jan 31, 2021
8,658
1,064
113
The covenant that is about to be established is to be with 1.) “the house of Israel” and 2.) “the house of Judah” (vs. 8). A. The covenant is not to be made with “the elect.”
B. The covenant is not to be made with the Body of Christ.
C. The covenant is not to be made with the “Israel of God.”
D. The covenant is not to be made with “Spiritual Jews.”
E. The covenant is not to be made with “Jehovah’s Witnesses.”
F. The covenant is not to be made with “the church.”
G. The covenant is not to be made with “Spiritual Israel.”
H. The covenant is not to be made with Christians, believers, Catholics, or Hebrew Christians. The covenant is to be made “with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah” (vs. 8).
Prove your claim, please. All I see are claims. No evidence from Scripture, other than the NC is for Israel and Judah. Which was fulfilled when Jesus came to earth at the First Advent.
 
Jan 31, 2021
8,658
1,064
113
I'm not making assumptions. I'm reading ' Israel ' and Judah ' .
Are you aware than when Jeremiah wrote ch 31 Israel was split into 2 kingdoms, the northern and the southern kingdoms?

If I believe the scriptures as they read i don't think its referring to anyone else. God is capable of communicating plainly.
To whom did Jesus come for during His First Advent? Hint: Matt 15:24 - But he answered and said, I am not sent but unto the lost sheep of the house of Israel.

Yes, He paid the sin debt for the human race, but He specifically came for the Jews, and they rejected their King, because they rejected the prophecies of the OT which TOLD THEM of His coming.
 
Jan 12, 2019
7,497
1,399
113
Prove your claim, please. All I see are claims. No evidence from Scripture, other than the NC is for Israel and Judah. Which was fulfilled when Jesus came to earth at the First Advent.
What exactly do you mean by fulfilled here?

Are you aware that the old covenant began with Israel, not when Moses received the law from God, but at exodus 24?

But you are also aware that Israel rejected Christ as the son of God. So pray tell me, how could the NC begin with Israel?
 

throughfaith

Well-known member
Aug 4, 2020
10,467
1,593
113
Prove your claim, please. All I see are claims. No evidence from Scripture, other than the NC is for Israel and Judah. Which was fulfilled when Jesus came to earth at the First Advent.
Which verse says "Which was fulfilled when Jesus came to earth at the First Advent " ? Isn't this your assumption?
I'm literally dealing with Hebrews 8 . It literally says 'Israel '
 
Jan 31, 2021
8,658
1,064
113
In the first place, None of those verses you used mentioned the term “new covenant” so how can they be clear enough?
So what? Aren't you aware of what Jesus said BEFORE He died on the cross?


Luke 22:20 - In the same way, after the supper he took the cup, saying, “This cup is the new covenant in my blood, which is poured out for you.

Do you not understand what the bolded words mean?

In case you are unaware, Paul is saying that we are saved by being in the body of Christ. [/QUOT4]
No, he NEVER said that. Or provide your evidence.

In fact, just recall what he told the jailer who asked him, "sirs, what MUST I DO to be saved?" Paul said, "believe on the Lord Jesus and you WILL BE SAVED." I guess you weren't aware of Paul's teaching.

He is not saying we are saved thru the new covenant.
Well, that's shocking!! I guess you don't believe what Jesus said in Luke 22:20 then either.

Why not take the clarity of Hebrews 8:8 and Jeremiah 31:31 when it comes to the subject “new covenant”?
I have, and I have proven to you that your view of the verses is woefully inadequate.

The NC is the fulfillment of all the OT prophecies about the Messiah. And Jesus made that clear in Luke 22:20.

But people are free to believe whatever they want.
 
Jan 12, 2019
7,497
1,399
113
So what? Aren't you aware of what Jesus said BEFORE He died on the cross?


Luke 22:20 - In the same way, after the supper he took the cup, saying, “This cup is the new covenant in my blood, which is poured out for you.

Do you not understand what the bolded words mean?
I prefer the kjv. It says New Testament.

The new covenant will be made with the entire nation, not just the 12
 
Jan 31, 2021
8,658
1,064
113
FreeGrace2 said:
Prove your claim, please. All I see are claims. No evidence from Scripture, other than the NC is for Israel and Judah. Which was fulfilled when Jesus came to earth at the First Advent.
What exactly do you mean by fulfilled here?
Could you please quit ignoring my requests?? I asked for proof for your claim. And you just dismiss that request and move on as if you don't have to. Well, you do. The meaning of "fulfilled" is clear enough. If you're not sure, check out a dictionary.

Are you aware that the old covenant began with Israel, not when Moses received the law from God, but at exodus 24?
So what? Galatians 3 is also clear enough.

But you are also aware that Israel rejected Christ as the son of God. So pray tell me, how could the NC begin with Israel?
Wow. Should be clear enough. The NC CAME when Christ died on the cross. Or don't you believe Luke 22:20?
 
Jan 31, 2021
8,658
1,064
113
I prefer the kjv. It says New Testament.
Well, there you go. Good going. That's the fact.

The new covenant will be made with the entire nation, not just the 12
No, actually, the NC is with the whole human race. Are you not aware of John 3:16, perhaps?
 

throughfaith

Well-known member
Aug 4, 2020
10,467
1,593
113
So what? Aren't you aware of what Jesus said BEFORE He died on the cross?


Luke 22:20 - In the same way, after the supper he took the cup, saying, “This cup is the new covenant in my blood, which is poured out for you.

Do you not understand what the bolded words mean?
Luke 20.22 20¶Likewise also the cup after supper, saying, This cup is the new testament in my blood, which is shed for you.
 
Jan 12, 2019
7,497
1,399
113
FreeGrace2 said:
Prove your claim, please. All I see are claims. No evidence from Scripture, other than the NC is for Israel and Judah. Which was fulfilled when Jesus came to earth at the First Advent.

Could you please quit ignoring my requests?? I asked for proof for your claim. And you just dismiss that request and move on as if you don't have to. Well, you do. The meaning of "fulfilled" is clear enough. If you're not sure, check out a dictionary.


So what? Galatians 3 is also clear enough.


Wow. Should be clear enough. The NC CAME when Christ died on the cross. Or don't you believe Luke 22:20?
I suggest you read exodus 24 to understand how did Israel the nation end up being in the old covenant.

Do you notice the leaders and the entire group of them told the Lord they will obey the conditions of it?

Then ask yourself, did the leaders also do that in acts 7, or did they kill the messenger from God instead?

So I am making clear to you, that the Nc could not have been fulfilled, not dismissing your request for scriptural proof
 
Jan 12, 2019
7,497
1,399
113
Well, there you go. Good going. That's the fact.


No, actually, the NC is with the whole human race. Are you not aware of John 3:16, perhaps?
Again John 3:16 says nothing about the new covenant.

I don’t understand why you refuse to read the clarity of Hebrews 8:8, when it comes to the subject of the new covenant
 

CherieR

Senior Member
May 6, 2017
2,271
1,429
113
Believe and trust in Jesus. Come just as you are to Jesus and receive him.

The parable of the Prodigal Son is a good picture of salvation and coming to Jesus. 😌
 
Jan 31, 2021
8,658
1,064
113
Luke 20.22 20¶Likewise also the cup after supper, saying, This cup is the new testament in my blood, which is shed for you.
Sure. Cherry pick your translation. New covenant and New testament mean the same thing. So you're still refuted.
 
Jan 31, 2021
8,658
1,064
113
I suggest you read exodus 24 to understand how did Israel the nation end up being in the old covenant.
No need. I do understand that. But what I don't understand is your single focus on it?

Do you notice the leaders and the entire group of them told the Lord they will obey the conditions of it?
Yep. So what are you suggesting? That obedience to the conditions of the OC would save anyone?

Did you not read any of the verses I shared? I have proved from Gal 3 that the Law never saved anyone.

Then ask yourself, did the leaders also do that in acts 7, or did they kill the messenger from God instead?
The leaders in Acts 7 were unbelievers. What they did has NO RELEVANCE to the NC. Why do you think otherwise?

So I am making clear to you, that the Nc could not have been fulfilled, not dismissing your request for scriptural proof
OH, good grief! Well, it's clear that either you did not read the verses I shared, or you don't understand that they teach.

Jesus FULFILLED the NC in His blood. Do you understand what "blood" means? Perhaps not.
 

throughfaith

Well-known member
Aug 4, 2020
10,467
1,593
113
Sure. Cherry pick your translation. New covenant and New testament mean the same thing. So you're still refuted.
No need. I do understand that. But what I don't understand is your single focus on it?


Yep. So what are you suggesting? That obedience to the conditions of the OC would save anyone?

Did you not read any of the verses I shared? I have proved from Gal 3 that the Law never saved anyone.


The leaders in Acts 7 were unbelievers. What they did has NO RELEVANCE to the NC. Why do you think otherwise?


OH, good grief! Well, it's clear that either you did not read the verses I shared, or you don't understand that they teach.

Jesus FULFILLED the NC in His blood. Do you understand what "blood" means? Perhaps not.
Your having to dance around to change what the bible says . It literally says ' ISRAEL '
 
Jan 31, 2021
8,658
1,064
113
Again John 3:16 says nothing about the new covenant.
Why would it have to satisfy your own insecurities?

Does John 3:16 make reference to Christ's sacrifice for sin? Of course it does. And the results as well. And Jesus was clear about His sacrifice for sin in Luke 22:20, which it seems you either don't understand or believe.

I don’t understand why you refuse to read the clarity of Hebrews 8:8, when it comes to the subject of the new covenant
I did. And I showed the context, plus the fact that it was a quote from Jeremiah, who wrote between 627-580 BC. At that time, the Jewish nation had split into 2 kingdoms, Israel the northren kingdom and Judah, the southern kingdom.

It was fulfilled when Christ came and went to the cross.

I don't understand why that isn't clear to others.

Do you believe that there will be a separate covenant with Israel in the future? So, when would that actually be? Be specific and include Scripture that supports your claim.
 
Jan 31, 2021
8,658
1,064
113
Believe and trust in Jesus. Come just as you are to Jesus and receive him.
Amen!

The parable of the Prodigal Son is a good picture of salvation and coming to Jesus. 😌
No offense, my dear, but the prodigl son is a picture of restoration of fellowship between God and one of His sons.

The parable begins with the son being a son, and that never changes. Once a son, always a son. Or, OSAS.