Not By Works

[VCO]

Not I. There are no scriptures for Calvinism or OSAS. All have the opportunity to come to Jesus, and The Word says we must abide in the Vine (nothing to do with "good works", it is the heart condition that matters.)

I know there are several Verses that support OSAS.

OSAS believers do believe in good deeds, only they are an ACT OF AGAPE LOVE, and they are what we do, after WE HAVE BEEN PERMANENTLY SAVED. They never has been a tool to GET SAVED, or to Maintain it.

I must explain though, that Salvation IS OF THE Human Spirit, and the HOLY SPIRIT gives Birth to that Human Spirit, and takes place the MOMENT we genuinely BELIEVE.

Sacntification, is of the Human Body and the Human Mind, and is a process of Maturing in CHRIST, while we learn to walk as JESUS DID.

Many People think Salvation and Sanctification are the same thing, and they are NOT.

Here are some of the verses.

John 10:27-28 (HCSB)
27 My sheep hear My voice, I know them, and they follow Me.
28 I give them eternal life, and they will never perish—ever!
No one will snatch them out of My hand.

1 Peter 1:3-5 (HCSB)
3 Praise the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ. According to His great mercy, He has given us a new birth into a living hope through the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead
4 and into an inheritance that is imperishable, uncorrupted, and unfading, kept in heaven for you.
5 You are being protected by God’s power through faith for a salvation that is ready to be revealed in the last time.


So you do not think GOD is Powerful enough to KEEP US FROM FALLING AWAY ? ? ?


Romans 8:28-30 (HCSB)
28 We know that all things work together for the good of those who love God: those who are called according to His purpose.
29 For those He foreknew He also predestined to be conformed to the image of His Son, so that He would be the firstborn among many brothers.
30 And those He predestined, He also called; and those He called, He also justified; and those He justified, He also glorified.


WOW, Maybe you should use a coupon cutter to cut that verse out of your BIBLE ? ? ?


John 3:36 (ESV)
36 Whoever believes {In Rom 10:9-10, Genuine BELIEF is in the HEART and Not I your head.} in the Son has eternal life; whoever does not obey the Son shall not see life, but the wrath of God remains on him.


IT IS NOT ETERNAL, IF YOU CAN LOSE IT, ISN'T THAT CORRECT ? ? ?
And the Same is TRUE with the Next VERSE.

John 5:24 (ESV)
24 Truly, truly, I say to you, whoever hears my word and believes him who sent me has eternal life. He does not come into judgment, but has passed from death to life.


That enough for now. You have to rectify the Contradiction you have put into the BIBLE, and a Couple of bad definitions to arrive at the TRUTH.

For example:

We do teach Good deeds is a natural event after we have been SAVED, the moment we first BELIEVED.

And Sanctification and SALVATION are two Different things that happen at two different Times in a belivers life.

 

[oyster67]

Many People think Salvation and Sanctification are the same thing, and they are NOT.

Agree.

 

[Guojing]

I know there are several Verses that support OSAS.

OSAS believers do believe in good deeds, only they are an ACT OF AGAPE LOVE, and they are what we do, after WE HAVE BEEN PERMANENTLY SAVED. They never has been a tool to GET SAVED, or to Maintain it.

I must explain though, that Salvation IS OF THE Human Spirit, and the HOLY SPIRIT gives Birth to that Human Spirit, and takes place the MOMENT we genuinely BELIEVE.

Sacntification, is of the Human Body and the Human Mind, and is a process of Maturing in CHRIST, while we learn to walk as JESUS DID.

Many People think Salvation and Sanctification are the same thing, and they are NOT.

Here are some of the verses.

John 10:27-28 (HCSB)
27 My sheep hear My voice, I know them, and they follow Me.
28 I give them eternal life, and they will never perish—ever!
No one will snatch them out of My hand.

1 Peter 1:3-5 (HCSB)
3 Praise the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ. According to His great mercy, He has given us a new birth into a living hope through the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead
4 and into an inheritance that is imperishable, uncorrupted, and unfading, kept in heaven for you.
5 You are being protected by God’s power through faith for a salvation that is ready to be revealed in the last time.


So you do not think GOD is Powerful enough to KEEP US FROM FALLING AWAY ? ? ?


Romans 8:28-30 (HCSB)
28 We know that all things work together for the good of those who love God: those who are called according to His purpose.
29 For those He foreknew He also predestined to be conformed to the image of His Son, so that He would be the firstborn among many brothers.
30 And those He predestined, He also called; and those He called, He also justified; and those He justified, He also glorified.


WOW, Maybe you should use a coupon cutter to cut that verse out of your BIBLE ? ? ?


John 3:36 (ESV)
36 Whoever believes {In Rom 10:9-10, Genuine BELIEF is in the HEART and Not I your head.} in the Son has eternal life; whoever does not obey the Son shall not see life, but the wrath of God remains on him.


IT IS NOT ETERNAL, IF YOU CAN LOSE IT, ISN'T THAT CORRECT ? ? ?
And the Same is TRUE with the Next VERSE.

John 5:24 (ESV)
24 Truly, truly, I say to you, whoever hears my word and believes him who sent me has eternal life. He does not come into judgment, but has passed from death to life.


That enough for now. You have to rectify the Contradiction you have put into the BIBLE, and a Couple of bad definitions to arrive at the TRUTH.

For example:

We do teach Good deeds is a natural event after we have been SAVED, the moment we first BELIEVED.

And Sanctification and SALVATION are two Different things that happen at two different Times in a belivers life.

The key to reconciling both sides, what John is trying to teach in those scripture is this, to Israel, eternal life is only received in the future, when Christ returns for Israel in his 2nd coming.

We are interpreting John as saying its present salvation because we are trying to read what Paul is teaching us in the Body of Christ, Romans to Philemon, into those passages meant for Israel.

 

[oyster67]

The key to reconciling both sides,

Thanks for trying. Good night.

 

[VCO]

And oyster67: The key to reconciling both sides, what John is trying to teach in those scripture is this, to Israel, eternal life is only received in the future, when Christ returns for Israel in his 2nd coming.

We are interpreting John as saying its present salvation because we are trying to read what Paul is teaching us in the Body of Christ, Romans to Philemon, into those passages meant for Israel.

You almost got that right, but not quite.

Eternal Life begins with the Human Spirit. Once it is BORN AGAIN, it is Eternally ALIVE.

The body and your cognative ability will DIE, but the Born Again Human Spirit has Eternal Life in it.

You are Talking about when the BODY come to be eternally alive.

John 3:6 (ESV)
6 That which is born of the flesh is flesh, and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.

SEE IT, THE SPIRIT IS NEVER BORN OF THE FLESH, WHICH MEANS IT WILL HAVE ETERNAL CHARACTERISTICS, ONCE IT IS BORN AGAIN.

John 6:47 (NCV)
47 I tell you the truth, whoever believes has eternal life. {Genuine Believing is with the HEART, not the head, ref. Rom. 10:10.}

Why do you guys DOUBT Scripture ? ? ? Has Eternal Life in your Human Spirit, but you will not have it in your Body and mind between your ears until after the Resurrection. You rewrite scripture, while I believe it literally.

 

[peldom10]

You phonman do NOT keep the law. If you did, you would be perfect as Jesus Christ. You are far from it. If the law of Moses could be keep by humans, there would be no need for Christ.

Why do you refer to .............Moses Law?
What law is that?

 

[Guojing]

You almost got that right, but not quite.

Eternal Life begins with the Human Spirit. Once it is BORN AGAIN, it is Eternally ALIVE.

The body and your cognative ability will DIE, but the Born Again Human Spirit has Eternal Life in it.

You are Talking about when the BODY come to be eternally alive.

John 3:6 (ESV)
6 That which is born of the flesh is flesh, and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.

SEE IT, THE SPIRIT IS NEVER BORN OF THE FLESH, WHICH MEANS IT WILL HAVE ETERNAL CHARACTERISTICS, ONCE IT IS BORN AGAIN.

John 6:47 (NCV)
47 I tell you the truth, whoever believes has eternal life. {Genuine Believing is with the HEART, not the head, ref. Rom. 10:10.}

Why do you guys DOUBT Scripture ? ? ? Has Eternal Life in your Human Spirit, but you will not have it in your Body and mind between your ears until after the Resurrection. You rewrite scripture, while I believe it literally.

Its based on Acts 3:19-21 and Hebrews 8:8-12, where it explains that for the nation Israel, their forgiveness of sins, as a nation, will only come in the future.

So long as you are a Jew who is being preached the gospel of the kingdom, the day that kingdom comes will be the 2nd coming of Christ at the end of the 70th week, that is when you can expect to receive forgiveness of your sins.

That is why Jesus taught them to pray "Thy kingdom come".

As I said, you may claim to believe it literally but you are trying to insert Paul's gospel of grace into the gospel of the kingdom.

 

[gb9]

Why do you refer to .............Moses Law?
What law is that?

the specific set of Commands that God gave to Moses on sinai for the nation of Israel. ( and only Israel).

 

[VCO]

Its based on Acts 3:19-21 and Hebrews 8:8-12, where it explains that for the nation Israel, their forgiveness of sins, as a nation, will only come in the future.

So long as you are a Jew who is being preached the gospel of the kingdom, the day that kingdom comes will be the 2nd coming of Christ at the end of the 70th week, that is when you can expect to receive forgiveness of your sins.

That is why Jesus taught them to pray "Thy kingdom come"
As I said, you may claim to believe it literally but you are trying to insert Paul's gospel of grace into the gospel of the kingdom.

BACK UP, are you a JEW, born and RAISED, with Jewish Blood running threw your veins ? IF NOT, their is NO WAY FOR YOU TO BECOME A JEW. You say, because you have been Grafted In; while I SAY YOU DO NOT UNDERSTAND A THE TERM "GAFTED IN".

*

In Northern California this is how they RAISE English Walnuts. They to that because Black Walnuts have DEEPER ROOTS, and THEY ARE NATURALLY MORE RESISTANT TO WORMS AND OTHER PESTS THAT ATTACK THE TREE BELOW GROUND.

These are English Walnuts Grafted into a Black Walnut Stump. NEVER do they become Black Walnut Producing TREES, no matter how old they GET, they will only produce ENGLISH WALNUTS. You, if you are a Gentile Beliver, Have Been Gafted into the VINE, BUT YOU WILL NEVER BECOME "a Spiritual Israelite". GOD's Chosen People are all 100% ISRAELITES, and you as GENTILE BELIER, can NEVER BECOME ONE OF THEM. It only means you receive nourishment from the same ROOT. Every Time GODS SPEAKS to ISRAEL, HE is speaking to JEWISH BELIEVERS, who came to Christ the same way as US.

Even the 144,000 are 100% Israelites. NONE OF THEM ARE GRAFTED IN BRANCHES. God has a special task for them, to REPOPULATE ISRAEL after WWIII, and the LORD GETS DONE WITH HIS WRATH. YES, they are sealed in the mortal Bodies, and will be the mortal ISRAELITES in the 1000 year Kingdom; while we will be in our GLORIFIED BODIES reigning with HIM.

 

[star]

Why do you refer to .............Moses Law?
What law is that?

You do know scripture, right?

 

[star]

Oh, so Jesus had an advantage over us?

If that were true, Satan would have an irrefutable accusation against God as totally unjust for condemning humanity for failing to do that which only Jesus was equipped to: keep the commandments.

Jesus had NO advantage over you or me. His daily prayer life, study life, and purposed heart to do the Father’s will got Him thorough and can get us through. No need for a OSAS License to Sin.

Wow. You are in more trouble than I thought.

 

[star]

Why try to improve on it? Marriage was given as an example to the universe of the kind of relationship our Creator desires to have with His creatures.

The reason it rubs you the wrong way is because it so effectively exemplifies the utter illegitimacy of a OSAS License to Sin.

You are so far fetched. The only license you need to be concerned about is your license to continue to present false accusations against we who trust our Lord and Savior and His Holy Spirit to never be separated by anything from Him.

 

[star]

I have my surgery tomorrow to remove cancer. I would like to asked that all who believe in the power of prayer from a righteous person avail much, to please offer up that all will be successful. Thank you

 

[VCO]

I have my surgery tomorrow to remove cancer. I would like to asked that all who believe in the power of prayer from a righteous person avail much, to please offer up that all will be successful. Thank you

I will pray for YOU, and wisdom for the Doctors.

 

[Guojing]

BACK UP, are you a JEW, born and RAISED, with Jewish Blood running threw your veins ? IF NOT, their is NO WAY FOR YOU TO BECOME A JEW. You say, because you have been Grafted In; while I SAY YOU DO NOT UNDERSTAND A THE TERM "GAFTED IN".

View attachment 226690 *

In Northern California this is how they RAISE English Walnuts. They to that because Black Walnuts have DEEPER ROOTS, and THEY ARE NATURALLY MORE RESISTANT TO WORMS AND OTHER PESTS THAT ATTACK THE TREE BELOW GROUND.

These are English Walnuts Grafted into a Black Walnut Stump. NEVER do they become Black Walnut Producing TREES, no matter how old they GET, they will only produce ENGLISH WALNUTS. You, if you are a Gentile Beliver, Have Been Gafted into the VINE, BUT YOU WILL NEVER BECOME "a Spiritual Israelite". GOD's Chosen People are all 100% ISRAELITES, and you as GENTILE BELIER, can NEVER BECOME ONE OF THEM. It only means you receive nourishment from the same ROOT. Every Time GODS SPEAKS to ISRAEL, HE is speaking to JEWISH BELIEVERS, who came to Christ the same way as US.

Even the 144,000 are 100% Israelites. NONE OF THEM ARE GRAFTED IN BRANCHES. God has a special task for them, to REPOPULATE ISRAEL after WWIII, and the LORD GETS DONE WITH HIS WRATH. YES, they are sealed in the mortal Bodies, and will be the mortal ISRAELITES in the 1000 year Kingdom; while we will be in our GLORIFIED BODIES reigning with HIM.

I never said I am a Jew in anyway. I am in the Body of Christ, where there is neither Jew nor Gentile.

 

[VCO]

Why do you refer to .............Moses Law?
What law is that?

You have NEVER answered my questions. You keep asking questions of others, YET YOU REFUSE TO ANSWER MINE:

Do you believe in the HOLY TRINITY ?
And what Denomination do you call HOME ?
And what is New Age Teaching in YOUR MIND ?
And what do you know about BORN AGAIN ?

 

[VCO]

the specific set of Commands that God gave to Moses on sinai for the nation of Israel. ( and only Israel).

Jesus reiterated 9 of the 10 commandments, but HE did not reiterate the SABBATH LAW. He had other plans for the Church.

Hebrews 10:23-25 (HCSB)
23 Let us hold on to the confession of our hope without wavering, for He who promised is faithful.
24 And let us be concerned about one another in order to promote love and good works,
25 not staying away from our ⌊worship⌋ meetings, as some habitually do, but encouraging each other, and all the more as you see the day drawing near.

There is OUR Command, with No specific Day mentioned. But why did HE have to do that ? ? ?

Jesus is in the ORDER of Melchizadek, in that HE IS BOTH KING AND OUR HIGH PRIEST.

Hebrews 7:11-15 (ESV)
11 Now if perfection had been attainable through the Levitical priesthood (for under it the people received the law), what further need would there have been for another priest to arise after the order of Melchizedek, rather than one named after the order of Aaron?
12 For when there is a change in the priesthood, there is necessarily a change in the law as well.
13 For the one of whom these things are spoken belonged to another tribe, from which no one has ever served at the altar.
14 For it is evident that our Lord was descended from Judah, and in connection with that tribe Moses said nothing about priests.
15 This becomes even more evident when another priest arises in the likeness of Melchizedek,


When JESUS became our KING and HIGH PRIEST, it was NECESSARY to Change that LAW AS WELL. The Priesthood changed from the Tribe of LEVI to the tribe of JUDAH.

 

[throughfaith]

Out of interest ,why was this guy banned ? He's got an amazingly long thread lol

 

[VCO]

Out of interest ,why was this guy banned ? He's got an amazingly long thread lol

Are you talking about dcontroversal ? If so, I have a pretty good idea why. It has to do partly with HOW LONG THE THREAD HAD GOTTEN. He was GETTING TIRED of the Same False Narrative that a few would present on this kind of thread. I mean over, and over, and over, we would get some people with works righteousness attitudes giving us the same questions or arguments from other other people, that we had ANSWERED BEFORE in great detail. Yes it got to me too, but I would take a Sabbatical from this thread and go to another site, for q week or more. Then come back until it got to me again, and take another Sabbatical. dc let it build up with no pressure release vaulve, and he got TOO short with some people. It sounds crazy, but when you want to confront false Doctrine, and cannot because of the no personal attacks rule, it is hard to maintain your cool.

Most of us are SOLIDLY OSAS BELIEVERS, who believe OBEDIENCE, never have been part of SALVATION of the Spirit, but it is something we will automatically Do as a Charcteristic of our new birth out of AGAPE LOVE FOR HIM, once we have become a truly Born Again Christian, Because we have been SAVED forever. Out of RESPECT for dc, we have decided to continue this Thread.

 

[throughfaith]

Are you talking about dcontroversal ? If so, I have a pretty good idea why. It has to do partly with HOW LONG THE THREAD HAD GOTTEN. He was GETTING TIRED of the Same False Narrative that a few would present on this kind of thread. I mean over, and over, and over, we would get some people with works righteousness attitudes giving us the same questions or arguments from other other people, that we had ANSWERED BEFORE in great detail. Yes it got to me too, but I would take a Sabbatical from this thread and go to another site, for q week or more. Then come back until it got to me again, and take another Sabbatical. dc let it build up with no pressure release vaulve, and he got TOO short with some people. It sounds crazy, but when you want to confront false Doctrine, and cannot because of the no personal attacks rule, it is hard to maintain your cool.

Most of us are SOLIDLY OSAS BELIEVERS, who believe OBEDIENCE, never have been part of SALVATION of the Spirit, but it is something we will automatically Do as a Charcteristic of our new birth out of AGAPE LOVE FOR HIM, once we have become a truly Born Again Christian, Because we have been SAVED forever. Out of RESPECT for dc, we have decided to continue this Thread.

Totally understand. What other groups do you recommend ?