Does the bible actually SAY what you believe?

[throughfaith]

Its my contention that Calvinism is built on inference , assumption, faulty axioms and syllogism. But can we say what we believe from what the bible ACTUALLY SAYS ? Of course context ,the who ,the when the what ,the where , matters . But are we Believing based on What the bible says and not what its presumed to teach ?
Thoughts?

 

[Runningman]

Its my contention that Calvinism is built on inference , assumption, faulty axioms and syllogism. But can we say what we believe from what the bible ACTUALLY SAYS ? Of course context ,the who ,the when the what ,the where , matters . But are we Believing based on What the bible says and not what its presumed to teach ?
Thoughts?

The Bible covers a lot of topics with a lot of cross-referencing to other books and chapters to fully understand a topic.

Diving into one topic normally requires understanding another topic, then another topic, then another topic. The Bible is interwoven. It takes a long time to understand completely.

People miss points or don't fully understand prerequisite topics sometimes. The Bible has to be read carefully and prayerfully. We need God's help really take all of this material in.

So what's an example of something people believe and if the Bible confirms or denies it?

 

[throughfaith]

The Bible covers a lot of topics with a lot of cross-referencing to other books and chapters to fully understand a topic.

Diving into one topic normally requires understanding another topic, then another topic, then another topic. The Bible is interwoven. It takes a long time to understand completely.

People miss points or don't fully understand prerequisite topics sometimes. The Bible has to be read carefully and prayerfully. We need God's help really take all of this material in.

So what's an example of something people believe and if the Bible confirms or denies it?

This is more of an experiment . If we take each point we claim ,does the bible actually say it somewhere . literally say the thing we claim to believe ?

 

[SophieT]

Rinse and repeat

 

[tourist]

Rinse and repeat

Ditto.

 

[MattforJesus]

Its my contention that Calvinism is built on inference , assumption, faulty axioms and syllogism. But can we say what we believe from what the bible ACTUALLY SAYS ? Of course context ,the who ,the when the what ,the where , matters . But are we Believing based on What the bible says and not what its presumed to teach ?
Thoughts?

Many people have a belief that is not part of the Bible and they interpret the scriptures that way.

The RCC did not get rid of their occult, pagan ways, and they interpret the Bible that way.

Joseph Smith had a belief not part of the Bible and interpreted the Bible that way which became the Mormon Church.

Scientology, Christian Science, and the new age movement have a belief not part of the Bible and they interpret scriptures that way.

The new age movement interprets the Bible according to evolution and Jesus evolved to be an ascended master and avatar, and the New Age Christ, antichrist, will be of the new age movement, which the Bible says some shall depart from the faith and follow them, and the time will come they will not want to hear the truth of the Bible, but want to hear it according to their own lusts the new age movement evolving to be spiritual.

 

[Runningman]

This is more of an experiment . If we take each point we claim ,does the bible actually say it somewhere . literally say the thing we claim to believe ?

Depends what the claim is. Not all claims are mentioned in the Bible. Sometimes ideas are implied or inferred and not literally stated. That's usually where debates start because not everyone uses the same kind of logic and reason to interpret with. Like someone else said, our biases effect our interpretation. We see it in almost every thread.

A sure way is to just not talk at all and post scripture, but that wouldn't be a discussion since it wouldn't eliminate the private interpretation people use.

 

[Dino246]

A sure way is to just not talk at all and post scripture, but that wouldn't be a discussion since it wouldn't eliminate the private interpretation people use.

What do you mean by "private interpretation"?

 

[throughfaith]

Depends what the claim is. Not all claims are mentioned in the Bible. Sometimes ideas are implied or inferred and not literally stated. That's usually where debates start because not everyone uses the same kind of logic and reason to interpret with. Like someone else said, our biases effect our interpretation. We see it in almost every thread.

A sure way is to just not talk at all and post scripture, but that wouldn't be a discussion since it wouldn't eliminate the private interpretation people use.

A clear one to start the ball rolling, would be if we said Jesus died for the sins of the whole world. We can go to the exact verse . 1 John 2
2And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world.

 

[throughfaith]

Another one would be if we said when and how we were sealed by the Holy Spirit.
Eph 1.13
13¶In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,
This verse SAYS so .

 

[Seeker47]

The Bible is, in my humble and uneducated opinion; the living, breathing word of God. It is still animated by the holy spirit, just as it was when written. It was not written once as a book of instruction, it reveals. It was written to meet all God’s children, where ever and whenever they may seek his word, regardless of their experience or sophistication or culture or condition. When I read one passage, it speaks to me from where I am. If the same passage is read again in different circumstances, a different meaning may be spoken. Two believers will probably hear two meanings, both equally valid. One may be the result of more sophisticated knowledge, the other is not therefore wrong. It is God speaking to us from where we are.

Sometimes I need to listen better.

 

[Runningman]

A clear one to start the ball rolling, would be if we said Jesus died for the sins of the whole world. We can go to the exact verse . 1 John 2
2And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world.

Ironically I was considering proposing that verse.

 

[Runningman]

Another one would be if we said when and how we were sealed by the Holy Spirit.
Eph 1.13
13¶In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,
This verse SAYS so .

People might latch onto "gospel of salvation" or "seal" and then try to define those terms.

What verses define the gospel of salvation and the seal.

 

[throughfaith]

People might latch onto "gospel of salvation" or "seal" and then try to define those terms.

What verses define the gospel of salvation and the seal.

1 cor 15.1-4
Eph 4.30 ?

 

[throughfaith]

You can definitely try this with ' '
' Eternal reprobation '
' Man Cannot believe the Gospel '
' irresistible grace '
' repentence is withheld from some '
' Faith is an exclusive gift '
The atonement is limited '
ect ?

 

[Runningman]

1 cor 15.1-4
Eph 4.30 ?

Yep those are pretty good. They expound on what was stated in Ephesians 1:13.

The only difference in 1 Cor. 15:1-4 compared to Eph. 1:13 is the word saved is used in 1 Cor 15:1-4 and the word salvation is used in Eph. 1:13.

People might try to make a distinction between being saved and salvation. I've seen that numerous times. They might try to make a distinction between being saved from earthly hardships, deliverance from struggle with sin, and the salvation of the immortal soul.

Just an example of how these discussions roll into all kinds of different topics.

 

[throughfaith]

Rom 5 is a great chapter on many things that actually SAY .
Peace with God / Justification by faith / While we were yet sinners / free gift / Free gift of Justification came upon all men/ Receiving the atonement/ Justified by his blood / reconciled/ the free gift came upon ALL MEN unto justification of life.. Many things we understand about salvation are plainly said here .
Great verse that Calvinists miss.
2By whom also we have access by faith into this grace wherein we stand, and rejoice in hope of the glory of God.
Notice it SAYS the access is by Faith INTO this grace . Not access by irresistible grace into this faith.

 

[Nehemiah6]

Its my contention that Calvinism is built on...

Why start another thread on Calvinism when there are many pre-existing threads? Or were you predestined to play the same tune every day?

I am definitely not a Calvinist, but you will not change any Calvinists mind about their superior theology. They were elected to promote a false gospel.

 

[throughfaith]

Why start another thread on Calvinism when there are many pre-existing threads? Or were you predestined to play the same tune every day?

I am definitely not a Calvinist, but you will not change any Calvinists mind about their superior theology. They were elected to promote a false gospel.

I just used Calvinism as an example . But its to all ,myself included .

 

[DWR]

I have noticed over the years that most people develop a belief, usually from listening to or reading after another, and then goes to the Scripture searching for verses that they can spin, twist, take out of context, of put their own interpretation on to prove what they believe.

It happens here on this forum very often.