Repentance is the Gift Of God !
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Nope. Acts 4:4 says many of them which heard the word believed.
Acts 4:4 does not say "God in Christ turned them ..."
Let God's Word state what God states. Do not add to it.
Acts 4:
1 And as they spake unto the people, the priests, and the captain of the temple, and the Sadducees, came upon them,
2 Being grieved that they taught the people, and preached through Jesus the resurrection from the dead.
3 And they laid hands on them, and put them in hold unto the next day: for it was now eventide.
4 Howbeit many of them which heard the word believed ...
Acts 4:4 does not say "God in Christ turned them ..."
Let God's Word state what God states. Do not add to it.
Acts 4:
1 And as they spake unto the people, the priests, and the captain of the temple, and the Sadducees, came upon them,
2 Being grieved that they taught the people, and preached through Jesus the resurrection from the dead.
3 And they laid hands on them, and put them in hold unto the next day: for it was now eventide.
4 Howbeit many of them which heard the word believed ...
Thats all I have been giving is scripture, God gives Repentance Acts 5:31
31 Him hath God exalted with his right hand to be a Prince and a Saviour, for to give repentance to Israel, and forgiveness of sins.
Acts 11:18
18 When they heard these things, they held their peace, and glorified God, saying, Then hath God also to the Gentiles granted repentance unto life.
2 Tim 2:25
25 In meekness instructing those that oppose themselves; if God peradventure will give them repentance to the acknowledging of the truth;
Now in Acts 5:31 what capacity is Christ in when giving repentance ? And to whom specifically is repentance given to ?
31 Him hath God exalted with his right hand to be a Prince and a Saviour, for to give repentance to Israel, and forgiveness of sins.
Acts 11:18
18 When they heard these things, they held their peace, and glorified God, saying, Then hath God also to the Gentiles granted repentance unto life.
2 Tim 2:25
25 In meekness instructing those that oppose themselves; if God peradventure will give them repentance to the acknowledging of the truth;
Now in Acts 5:31 what capacity is Christ in when giving repentance ? And to whom specifically is repentance given to ?
Well you are discounting all the verses about predestination, and it is ALL God when we are saved, we do NOTHING, and do you know what it means when God says He is sovereign? I do not disagree with you at all by the way. God does tell us to CHOOSE this day who we will serve, and it is very clear when it says we should strive for righteousness, and all these things we understand in time/space. So please know I am not in disagreement that from our perspectives we absolutely do make choices and decisions, but on the other side of this scale we also have God telling us He knows us before we are born, He tells us the beginning from the end, no one can grab God by the arm and say "what have You done", nor look at Him and say "why have you made me this way", does the molder not have ALL rights over the clay, He has predestined us, He is sovereign, the Author of ALL life and everything in it, and not only can tell us what has happen and what will happen, but also why. He has created all of us not only glorified in His love, mercy, and salvation, but also in the righteousness of His perfect judgement on the wicked and evil.
So without a doubt we have to have choice and a will of our own, I don't think anyone reasonable, trying to truly have a real discussion on the matter can deny, but and the flip side I don't think anyone trying to be reasonable can deny that the bible also clearly states God is sovereign over EVERYTHING. As in most huge debates here I just don't think this is an either/or thing in any way. I see it as being somewhere in the middle with most things. To me this is one of the biggest unanswerable mysteries of God, how does He work His sovereignty within our wills? Just not something we can comprehend. Also I don't think the bible every teaches we have a "free will", like at all ever. We are born in sin, dead, there is no way at all we could ever save our selves, if you think about it outside direct revelation from God we could never know what was wrong, it's just outside what fallen man has the ability to know. So to be very clear, we are born with a dead spirit, a problem we could never even know let alone repair. God reached down and through Israel told us exactly how He was going to repair us, then stepped on this earth born whole, not of Adam with a dead spirit, but born of the Spirit exactly as we were created to live. See we are born slaves of sin. Jesus tells us we are going to live as slaves of on kind or another. Either in the broken state, slaves of sin, or born again of Spirit, as slaves of Christ. Our "wills" are never free, and we're clearly told that men have nothing at all ever to boast about concerning salvation, NO THING, not even a choice.
I know this is long like always, but I have to testify about the FACT that God grants us repentance EXACTLY the way brightfame52 was meaning, or at least how you think she meant anyway.
I did not choose Jesus, as a matter of fact when "I choose Jesus", when IU went up front and recited the salvation prayer, heck even went out and got baptised as well, when I "choose", I was not saved. It wasn't until life threw me a curveball and I lost the use of my dominate right arm in a motorcycle wreak that real life even started happening. See I had made the choice, I was a Christian, but in my current condition, after the initial thankfulness to be alive, as well as the pain medication button with nurses doing everything for you, after getting home and realizing how bad this really was, I felt Jesus wasn't doing anything at all to help me and my pain. I wasn't really "mad" at God, just didn't think He was real at all, or helpful.
A downward spiral of hope after hope smashed, they couldn't fix the arm, no settlement or any kind of compensation at all, car we were $600 from paying off was totaled and the replacement car we bought died the first week. I was at the end of my wits and when GRANTED me repentance, I didn't even know what was happening. I hit my knees in complete defeat, not calling out "Jesus" or "God I'm ready", nothing at all like that. God wasn't even a thought in my head when I hit my knees completely broken. I just cried "I can't do this anymore, I can't do this anymore, I can't do this anymore, world you win and I QUIT!!!!!
That was it, I got up, cleaned myself up, and went to bed. Lunch time the next day was when He Revealed to me that He was real and Jesus was His Son. At lunch the next day after feeling better, after 2 solid years of wanting to die and uncontrollable suicidal thoughts all day everyday, I realized they were gone and that was the second I knew whatever happen was God and that Jesus was His Son.
I could go for hours sharing every detail, but my main point is that the testimony God gave me leaves me with no other way to see it than He saved me, I didn't even make this choice being discussed here, and I know He did this on purpose too, like everything, but the view your sharing I believe is a bit TOO far the other way, that God plays no role other than making the way. Anyway I would love to hear your thoughts on these things, and if I got anything wrong about how you see it.
So without a doubt we have to have choice and a will of our own, I don't think anyone reasonable, trying to truly have a real discussion on the matter can deny, but and the flip side I don't think anyone trying to be reasonable can deny that the bible also clearly states God is sovereign over EVERYTHING. As in most huge debates here I just don't think this is an either/or thing in any way. I see it as being somewhere in the middle with most things. To me this is one of the biggest unanswerable mysteries of God, how does He work His sovereignty within our wills? Just not something we can comprehend. Also I don't think the bible every teaches we have a "free will", like at all ever. We are born in sin, dead, there is no way at all we could ever save our selves, if you think about it outside direct revelation from God we could never know what was wrong, it's just outside what fallen man has the ability to know. So to be very clear, we are born with a dead spirit, a problem we could never even know let alone repair. God reached down and through Israel told us exactly how He was going to repair us, then stepped on this earth born whole, not of Adam with a dead spirit, but born of the Spirit exactly as we were created to live. See we are born slaves of sin. Jesus tells us we are going to live as slaves of on kind or another. Either in the broken state, slaves of sin, or born again of Spirit, as slaves of Christ. Our "wills" are never free, and we're clearly told that men have nothing at all ever to boast about concerning salvation, NO THING, not even a choice.
I know this is long like always, but I have to testify about the FACT that God grants us repentance EXACTLY the way brightfame52 was meaning, or at least how you think she meant anyway.
I did not choose Jesus, as a matter of fact when "I choose Jesus", when IU went up front and recited the salvation prayer, heck even went out and got baptised as well, when I "choose", I was not saved. It wasn't until life threw me a curveball and I lost the use of my dominate right arm in a motorcycle wreak that real life even started happening. See I had made the choice, I was a Christian, but in my current condition, after the initial thankfulness to be alive, as well as the pain medication button with nurses doing everything for you, after getting home and realizing how bad this really was, I felt Jesus wasn't doing anything at all to help me and my pain. I wasn't really "mad" at God, just didn't think He was real at all, or helpful.
A downward spiral of hope after hope smashed, they couldn't fix the arm, no settlement or any kind of compensation at all, car we were $600 from paying off was totaled and the replacement car we bought died the first week. I was at the end of my wits and when GRANTED me repentance, I didn't even know what was happening. I hit my knees in complete defeat, not calling out "Jesus" or "God I'm ready", nothing at all like that. God wasn't even a thought in my head when I hit my knees completely broken. I just cried "I can't do this anymore, I can't do this anymore, I can't do this anymore, world you win and I QUIT!!!!!
That was it, I got up, cleaned myself up, and went to bed. Lunch time the next day was when He Revealed to me that He was real and Jesus was His Son. At lunch the next day after feeling better, after 2 solid years of wanting to die and uncontrollable suicidal thoughts all day everyday, I realized they were gone and that was the second I knew whatever happen was God and that Jesus was His Son.
I could go for hours sharing every detail, but my main point is that the testimony God gave me leaves me with no other way to see it than He saved me, I didn't even make this choice being discussed here, and I know He did this on purpose too, like everything, but the view your sharing I believe is a bit TOO far the other way, that God plays no role other than making the way. Anyway I would love to hear your thoughts on these things, and if I got anything wrong about how you see it.
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Very good points made. I'll explain where I feel I need to address. If not addressed I agree with the parts not quoted.
I do not discount predestination and it is God who gives salvation. We do nothing other than accept God's gift by faith in Jesus Christ the Son. That is a choice. I absolutely understand God's sovereignty within my finite knowledge of God which is limited but my understanding doesn't negate free will or God's sovereignty.
According to how you define free will. If you mean the ability to choose right from wrong then the whole Bible mentions this. We are born in sin and dead in our transgressions. But God works in all of mankind so that all are without excuse. The Holy Spirit also goes forth and draws people in. Without God's initial drawing mankind unto Himself, we would never respond on our own. God starts this upon the age of knowing right from wrong within the moral law. Then once this occurs all are responsible for which voice they listen to. God or satan. God reveals Himself in creation, the moral law, His Spirit,
You say you first chose Jesus but felt nothing. And you equate choosing to be the problem but during your darkness you chose to still lean on God through the valley. It was your choice to abide that led to a true conversion experience. It went from head knowledge to the heart. I also had a conversion experience and my experience involved a question, a choice, and a verse. God asked me, "Are you going to follow Me or not?” I had a choice. Say yes, so no, or live as a hypocrite. The lukewarm verse came to mind and I knew mentally God existed and the Bible to be true. I couldn't say no, knowing this info. I couldn't live as a hypocrite knowing this to be true. So I said yes. And from that day, a fire was lit like nothing else and a hunger so deep for God's Word.
I do not discount predestination and it is God who gives salvation. We do nothing other than accept God's gift by faith in Jesus Christ the Son. That is a choice. I absolutely understand God's sovereignty within my finite knowledge of God which is limited but my understanding doesn't negate free will or God's sovereignty.
According to how you define free will. If you mean the ability to choose right from wrong then the whole Bible mentions this. We are born in sin and dead in our transgressions. But God works in all of mankind so that all are without excuse. The Holy Spirit also goes forth and draws people in. Without God's initial drawing mankind unto Himself, we would never respond on our own. God starts this upon the age of knowing right from wrong within the moral law. Then once this occurs all are responsible for which voice they listen to. God or satan. God reveals Himself in creation, the moral law, His Spirit,
You say you first chose Jesus but felt nothing. And you equate choosing to be the problem but during your darkness you chose to still lean on God through the valley. It was your choice to abide that led to a true conversion experience. It went from head knowledge to the heart. I also had a conversion experience and my experience involved a question, a choice, and a verse. God asked me, "Are you going to follow Me or not?” I had a choice. Say yes, so no, or live as a hypocrite. The lukewarm verse came to mind and I knew mentally God existed and the Bible to be true. I couldn't say no, knowing this info. I couldn't live as a hypocrite knowing this to be true. So I said yes. And from that day, a fire was lit like nothing else and a hunger so deep for God's Word.
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Repentance comes to us as a gracious gift from God that we can do no works to obtain. He does it via conviction of the Holy Spirit who shows us how sinful we are by measuring us against His Law. And we are broken and contrite a soul that now hungers and thirsts for righteousness. Then God gives us mercy, by his grace, through Jesus who paid the price for our sins, and this works together to regenerate our heart giving to us the righteousness necessary to assuage our condemnation so that we despise our sin, and desire not to sin.
God working in us both to will and to do. Via law and Gospel.
God working in us both to will and to do. Via law and Gospel.
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But salvation is from God lest any man boast. Look man I understand your view, I really do and do not disagree. I do believe we have a choice and that's part of being made in His image. So lets go with you, I say the prayer, mean it truly, and by His grace and power am transformed, my spirit resurrected in real life, and reconciled to His as we were created to be. I am made whole by our King. Who gets credit for "my" choice? Who gets ALL the credit for "YOUR CHOICE" in your opinion?