The Trinity Doctrine in the Bible

[BamaPapist]

That doesn't appear anywhere in the bible so how do you say it's "clear"?

Rev 5:8 And when he had taken the book, the four beasts and four and twenty elders fell down before the Lamb, having every one of them harps, and golden vials full of odours, which are the prayers of saints.

The elders do hold the vials of prayers but they don't offer those prayers to God. It is however very clear who does that:

Rev 8:3 And another angel came and stood at the altar, having a golden censer; and there was given unto him much incense, that he should offer it with the prayers of all saints upon the golden altar which was before the throne.
Rev 8:4 And the smoke of the incense, which came with the prayers of the saints, ascended up before God out of the angel's hand.

It is an angel that offers the prayers to God, not the elders as you claimed.

Let me know if there is anything else I can correct for you.

Ive been poking holes in what you’ve just said for awhile now. I’m not going to keep repeating myself just because you’re late to the game.

 

[Blackpowderduelist]

So why was Biden not ex-communicated long, long, ago? Since he has been lying through his teeth ever since he entered politics, and also promoting abortion. Is it because the pope himself is a Communist and a heretic? Or is there a double-standard in the Catholic Church?

That's how you put a fine point on a subject.

 

[ewq1938]

I would not need the phrase “Sola Scriptura” to be in the Bible in order to believe it’s true. Trinity is not in the Bible but that doctrine is most definitely true.

Which shows your inconsistency. Requiring a specific word or term is known as an argument from silence fallacy.

Sola Scriptura" is demonstrated here:

Act 17:11 These were more noble than those in Thessalonica, in that they received the word with all readiness of mind, and searched the scriptures daily, whether those things were so.

When Paul taught in Berea, they were so noble that they made sure what he taught was something found in the scriptures. Protestants do that but apparently Catholics don't need to. That means Protestants are compared to Bereans and Catholics to like Thessalonians.

 

[Dino246]

The elders are offering God the prayers of the saints. Who are these saints is what your asking? These are the saints (Christians) on Earth (the ones who pray to God). It’s how Paul refers to the Christians he addresses in every epistle.

My "Yes, and" was not a request for further information, but a request for an explanation of relevance.

 

[CS1]

How many dead Christians were in heaven when Jesus was on earth?

FYI , there could be no Christians in even until Jesus came and died and rose again and those placed their faith in the work of the cross and accepted Him after hearing the gospel message.

 

[BamaPapist]

Which shows your inconsistency. Requiring a specific word or term is known as an argument from silence fallacy.

Sola Scriptura" is demonstrated here:

Act 17:11 These were more noble than those in Thessalonica, in that they received the word with all readiness of mind, and searched the scriptures daily, whether those things were so.

When Paul taught in Berea, they were so noble that they made sure what he taught was something found in the scriptures. Protestants do that but apparently Catholics don't need to. That means Protestants are compared to Bereans and Catholics to like Thessalonians.

I guess you don’t believe in the Trinity then, you won’t find that term nowhere in the Bible

 

[BamaPapist]

FYI , there could be no Christians in even until Jesus came and died and rose again and those placed their faith in the work of the cross and accepted Him after hearing the gospel message.

Exactly, so why would Christ mention asking our departed brothers and sisters in heaven to pray for us if there were none yet? He wouldn’t, which is why he wouldn’t have taught his disciples about praying that way at that time.

 

[CS1]

Exactly, so why would Christ mention asking our departed brothers and sisters in heaven to pray for us if there were none yet? He wouldn’t, which is why he wouldn’t have taught his disciples about praying that way at that time.

You assume that nowhere in the word of God does it say Christ asked dead saints to pray. You must look at the word pray in context to the Hebrew and Greek which also translate


Worship if you look at the full text in Rev 5:8

the saints are falling down before the Lamb.

In Rev 8:4 the smoke from the incense here is praise going to the Lord Come into His Presence with Praise and Thank Giving that is an eternal requirement.

προσευχή proseuchḗ, pros-yoo-khay'= worship.

the most worthy Saints are Bowing down to the One true God and worshiping Him also known as Prayer.

You have tried to change the context by only reading a half-sentence. That is not right.

So, the RCC position on this is flawed.

 

[BamaPapist]

You assume that nowhere in the word of God does it say Christ asked dead saints to pray. You must look at the word pray in context to the Hebrew and Greek which also translate


Worship if you look at the full text in Rev 5:8

the saints are falling down before the Lamb.

In Rev 8:4 the smoke from the incense here is praise going to the Lord Come into His Presence with Praise and Thank Giving that is an eternal requirement.

προσευχή proseuchḗ, pros-yoo-khay'= worship.

the most worthy Saints are Bowing down to the One true God and worshiping Him also known as Prayer.

You have tried to change the context by only reading a half-sentence. That is not right.

So, the RCC position on this is flawed.

Lol no. The elders are offering prayers of the saints. You can try to twist it but that’s the clear text in verse 8 Ch 5.

By the way, it’s the elders falling before the lamb.

 

[CS1]

Lol no. The elders are offering prayers of the saints. You can try to twist it but that’s the clear text in verse 8 Ch 5.

By the way, it’s the elders falling before the lamb.

verse four chapter 8


3 And another angel came and stood at the altar, having a golden censer; and there was given unto him much incense, that he should offer it with the prayers of all saints upon the golden altar which was before the throne.
The saints were offering to pray those in heaven before the throne. The prayer offered up were of the saints not FOR the saints. Because it was worship to the God on the Throne.

4 And the smoke of the incense, which came with the prayers of the saints, (hagios ) ascended up before God out of the angel's hand.

You have added to the word of God The text does not say in Rev 8 they prayed for the saints, it's not there.

 

[BamaPapist]

verse four chapter 8


3 And another angel came and stood at the altar, having a golden censer; and there was given unto him much incense, that he should offer it with the prayers of all saints upon the golden altar which was before the throne.
The saints were offering to pray those in heaven before the throne. The prayer offered up were of the saints not FOR the saints. Because it was worship to the God on the Throne.

4 And the smoke of the incense, which came with the prayers of the saints, (hagios ) ascended up before God out of the angel's hand.

You have added to the word of God The text does not say in Rev 8 they prayed for the saints, it's not there.

What did I add? I’ve quoted two verses in this thread. Ch 4:4 and Ch 5:8.

All I’ve said is the elders (who are worshiping God) offered the prayers of the saints.

 

[CS1]

What did I add? I’ve quoted two verses in this thread. Ch 4:4 and Ch 5:8.

All I’ve said is the elders (who are worshiping God) offered the prayers of the saints.

Rev 4:10 -11 do not say any such thing


The four and twenty elders fall down before him that sat on the throne, and worship him that liveth forever and ever, and cast their crowns before the throne, saying, :11 Thou art worthy, O Lord, to receive glory and honour and power: for thou hast created all things, and for thy pleasure they are and were created.

Rev chapter 5:8
And when he had taken the book, the four beasts and four and twenty elders fell down before the Lamb, having every one of them harps, and golden vials full of odours, which are the prayers of saints.

They held a golden Vail that had the prayer in it. Nowhere does it say the elder Prayed. They fell down and worshiped the Lamb and cried out to Him IN Worship.


The RCC will not be supported in this setting guy. it is a a false teaching

 

[BamaPapist]

Rev 4:10 -11 do not say any such thing


The four and twenty elders fall down before him that sat on the throne, and worship him that liveth forever and ever, and cast their crowns before the throne, saying, :11 Thou art worthy, O Lord, to receive glory and honour and power: for thou hast created all things, and for thy pleasure they are and were created.

Rev chapter 5:8
And when he had taken the book, the four beasts and four and twenty elders fell down before the Lamb, having every one of them harps, and golden vials full of odours, which are the prayers of saints.

They held a golden Vail that had the prayer in it. Nowhere does it say the elder Prayed. They fell down and worshiped the Lamb and cried out to Him IN Worship.


The RCC will not be supported in this setting guy. it is a a false teaching

What is the post number where I said the elders prayed? I have consistently said they offered the prayers.

 

[MattforJesus]

Can anybody help make The Doctrine of The Trinity clear to those who are new to the Faith using scripture alone?

There are only 2 known verses in all of scripture that even hint at the concept of a '3-person God' who is actually 'One'.

Matthew 28:19 lists the 3 persons of the Trinity, but does not describe their relationship in any way or teach the "concept" of the Trinity at all.

"Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:"
(Mt. 28:19)
It is very significant to note that after this verse, the only baptisms that are related in detail describe baptizing in the name of Jesus or Jesus Christ. These are found in Acts 2:38 & 8:12

The other verse that comes close to describing the Trinity is Ephesians 4:4-6.

"There is one body, and one Spirit, even as ye are called in one hope of your calling; One Lord, one faith, one baptism, One God and Father of all, who is above all, and through all, and in you all."
(Eph. 4:4-6)
This verse, as well, fails to teach the actual "concept" of the Trinity.

There are many pagan religions with 3-person gods which go into great detail about the 3-person relationship of their gods and the history of how they came about, but in Christianity, there is no teaching anywhere in scripture about the Trinity. The word Trinity is found nowhere from Genesis to Revelation.

There is not a single book in the 66 books of the Bible, much less even a paragraph, that teaches the actual concept of the Trinity.

So how do we teach this concept to a new inquisitive Christian who is interested in learning about it in their Bible?

If you can teach this concept using the Bible alone, please supply those books, chapters and verses for the edification of those who are eager to learn.

Some things to consider.

1Co 8:6 But to us there is but one God, the Father, of whom are all things, and we in him.

Eph 4:6 One God and Father of all, who is above all, and through all, and in you all.

Why does the Bible say that there is only one God the Father.

Isa 9:6 For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace.

Joh 14:8 Philip saith unto him, Lord, shew us the Father, and it sufficeth us.
Joh 14:9 Jesus saith unto him, Have I been so long time with you, and yet hast thou not known me, Philip? he that hath seen me hath seen the Father; and how sayest thou then, Shew us the Father?
Joh 14:10 Believest thou not that I am in the Father, and the Father in me? the words that I speak unto you I speak not of myself: but the Father that dwelleth in me, he doeth the works.

Why will the Son be called the everlasting Father which Jesus said if you seen Him you have seen the Father.

Mat 1:20 But while he thought on these things, behold, the angel of the Lord appeared unto him in a dream, saying, Joseph, thou son of David, fear not to take unto thee Mary thy wife: for that which is conceived in her is of the Holy Ghost.

Why is Jesus conceived of the Holy Ghost the 3rd person of the trinity and not God the Son, and the Bible never says God the Son.

Isa 43:10 Ye are my witnesses, saith the LORD, and my servant whom I have chosen: that ye may know and believe me, and understand that I am he: before me there was no God formed, neither shall there be after me.
Isa 43:11 I, even I, am the LORD; and beside me there is no saviour.

Jesus is God but He cannot be a created God for there was no God formed after God, but if God the Son was not created then why is He called a Son is He has no beginning which means He has no Father.

Mat 28:19 Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost.

Father, Son, and Holy Ghost are not names, and it is name singular, and Jesus is a name like Jehovah is a name.

This is saying that they will share the same name and that name is Jesus.

Jesus came in His Father's name which is Jesus.

Heb 1:4 Being made so much better than the angels, as he hath by inheritance obtained a more excellent name than they.

The Son inherited the name Jesus from the Father.

Joh 14:26 But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you.

The Holy Ghost comes in the name of Jesus.

Jesus is the name of the Father, Son, and Holy Ghost.

Jews, Samaritans, and Gentiles were all baptized in Jesus' name in the book of Acts.

The Bible says all we do in word and deed is to be done in the name of Jesus so why would we say Father, Son, and Holy Ghost in baptism if all we do in word and deed is to be done in Jesus' name.

The Bible says that there is no other name under heaven whereby we must be saved but by the name of Jesus so why would we baptize in the name of the Father, Son, and Holy Ghost which those are titles not names.

Is Father your name.

Is Son your name.

Is the spirit in you your name.

The truth is there is no trinity but only one God the Father, who is above all, and through all, and in you all, like the Bible says.

And things can be explained that they think is a trinity but it is not a trinity.

The Bible says there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus.

Jesus said all power is given unto Him in heaven and earth.

There is only one throne in heaven and one who sits on that throne not 2 thrones in heaven, and it is the throne of God and the Lamb, God in the glorified body of the man Christ Jesus.

Jesus said all power is given Him in heaven and earth.

God's right hand represents power, wisdom, and salvation.

The Son must reign until all His enemies are conquered and then the Son shall submit to God the Father that God may be all in all.

God exalted the man Christ Jesus, be at His right hand, because He is the mediator between God and men until His enemies are conquered, and the saints are with Him, and then the Son shall submit to the Father, stop being at the right hand that God may be all in all.

The only person we will see in heaven is Jesus which if you have seen Jesus you have seen the Father for there is only one God the Father, and the Son the man Christ Jesus who now has a glorified body.

When the time was come God sent forth His Son, made of a woman, made under the law.

There is only one God who is a Holy Spirit, and Father is a title for God, and the Son is the man Christ Jesus.

The titles are the 3 relationships God has with His children designated by titles.

Father- Creator and parent of the saints.

Son- God's visible relationship to the saints, and God in physical activity.

Holy Spirit- God's invisible relationship to the saints, and God in invisible activity.

Let us make man in our image is not a trinity but God and the Son, the man Christ Jesus a prophetic statement to the coming Son of God.

In the Old Testament God created Adam in His image.

In the New Testament Adam was made after the similitude of Jesus.

The image of God is the image of Christ an innocent nature in flesh.

God had the plan to come in the future in flesh before He laid down the foundation of the world, and created Adam in that image an innocent nature in flesh.

The let us create man in our image is God the Father and the Son, the man Christ Jesus which Adam was made after that image an innocent nature in flesh.

There is no trinity, and it is not found in scriptures because there is no trinity.

The Bible plainly states that there is one God the Father and does not mention Holy Spirit for the Father is the Holy Spirit, and does not mention the Son for the Son is the man Christ Jesus and not a God according to the flesh.

The trinity is a pagan belief which the Roman Catholic Church embraced because their foundation is of the paganism and that is how they interpret scriptures.

But when the Protestant movement began they did not protest enough for they kept that trinity doctrine of which does not exist.

They can never prove there is a trinity an any attempt they try to make can easily be explained that it does not mean a trinity.

 

[CS1]

Some things to consider.

1Co 8:6 But to us there is but one God, the Father, of whom are all things, and we in him.

Eph 4:6 One God and Father of all, who is above all, and through all, and in you all.

Why does the Bible say that there is only one God the Father.

Isa 9:6 For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace.

Joh 14:8 Philip saith unto him, Lord, shew us the Father, and it sufficeth us.
Joh 14:9 Jesus saith unto him, Have I been so long time with you, and yet hast thou not known me, Philip? he that hath seen me hath seen the Father; and how sayest thou then, Shew us the Father?
Joh 14:10 Believest thou not that I am in the Father, and the Father in me? the words that I speak unto you I speak not of myself: but the Father that dwelleth in me, he doeth the works.

Why will the Son be called the everlasting Father which Jesus said if you seen Him you have seen the Father.

Mat 1:20 But while he thought on these things, behold, the angel of the Lord appeared unto him in a dream, saying, Joseph, thou son of David, fear not to take unto thee Mary thy wife: for that which is conceived in her is of the Holy Ghost.

Why is Jesus conceived of the Holy Ghost the 3rd person of the trinity and not God the Son, and the Bible never says God the Son.

Isa 43:10 Ye are my witnesses, saith the LORD, and my servant whom I have chosen: that ye may know and believe me, and understand that I am he: before me there was no God formed, neither shall there be after me.
Isa 43:11 I, even I, am the LORD; and beside me there is no saviour.

Jesus is God but He cannot be a created God for there was no God formed after God, but if God the Son was not created then why is He called a Son is He has no beginning which means He has no Father.

Mat 28:19 Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost.

Father, Son, and Holy Ghost are not names, and it is name singular, and Jesus is a name like Jehovah is a name.

This is saying that they will share the same name and that name is Jesus.

Jesus came in His Father's name which is Jesus.

Heb 1:4 Being made so much better than the angels, as he hath by inheritance obtained a more excellent name than they.

The Son inherited the name Jesus from the Father.

Joh 14:26 But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you.

The Holy Ghost comes in the name of Jesus.

Jesus is the name of the Father, Son, and Holy Ghost.

Jews, Samaritans, and Gentiles were all baptized in Jesus' name in the book of Acts.

The Bible says all we do in word and deed is to be done in the name of Jesus so why would we say Father, Son, and Holy Ghost in baptism if all we do in word and deed is to be done in Jesus' name.

The Bible says that there is no other name under heaven whereby we must be saved but by the name of Jesus so why would we baptize in the name of the Father, Son, and Holy Ghost which those are titles not names.

Is Father your name.

Is Son your name.

Is the spirit in you your name.

The truth is there is no trinity but only one God the Father, who is above all, and through all, and in you all, like the Bible says.

And things can be explained that they think is a trinity but it is not a trinity.

The Bible says there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus.

Jesus said all power is given unto Him in heaven and earth.

There is only one throne in heaven and one who sits on that throne not 2 thrones in heaven, and it is the throne of God and the Lamb, God in the glorified body of the man Christ Jesus.

Jesus said all power is given Him in heaven and earth.

God's right hand represents power, wisdom, and salvation.

The Son must reign until all His enemies are conquered and then the Son shall submit to God the Father that God may be all in all.

God exalted the man Christ Jesus, be at His right hand, because He is the mediator between God and men until His enemies are conquered, and the saints are with Him, and then the Son shall submit to the Father, stop being at the right hand that God may be all in all.

The only person we will see in heaven is Jesus which if you have seen Jesus you have seen the Father for there is only one God the Father, and the Son the man Christ Jesus who now has a glorified body.

When the time was come God sent forth His Son, made of a woman, made under the law.

There is only one God who is a Holy Spirit, and Father is a title for God, and the Son is the man Christ Jesus.

The titles are the 3 relationships God has with His children designated by titles.

Father- Creator and parent of the saints.

Son- God's visible relationship to the saints, and God in physical activity.

Holy Spirit- God's invisible relationship to the saints, and God in invisible activity.

Let us make man in our image is not a trinity but God and the Son, the man Christ Jesus a prophetic statement to the coming Son of God.

In the Old Testament God created Adam in His image.

In the New Testament Adam was made after the similitude of Jesus.

The image of God is the image of Christ an innocent nature in flesh.

God had the plan to come in the future in flesh before He laid down the foundation of the world, and created Adam in that image an innocent nature in flesh.

The let us create man in our image is God the Father and the Son, the man Christ Jesus which Adam was made after that image an innocent nature in flesh.

There is no trinity, and it is not found in scriptures because there is no trinity.

The Bible plainly states that there is one God the Father and does not mention Holy Spirit for the Father is the Holy Spirit, and does not mention the Son for the Son is the man Christ Jesus and not a God according to the flesh.

The trinity is a pagan belief which the Roman Catholic Church embraced because their foundation is of the paganism and that is how they interpret scriptures.

But when the Protestant movement began they did not protest enough for they kept that trinity doctrine of which does not exist.

They can never prove there is a trinity and any attempt they try to make can easily be explained that it does not mean a trinity.

Funny,
you need to consider the context that is given in the sentence, verse, text, passage, Book, and whole bible. You need to learn the authorial intent. NOw I told you about the RCC Stuff and now I will tell you about the Trinity.

Mocking ridicule, scoffing. lambasting, calling the Doctrine of the Trinity Pagan will be the surest way to be removed from CC.

You are not Biblical in context to the dead praying, and that was provided for you from the very verses you used.

You nor I can fully know the full Nature of God we are limited. The Concept of the triune God is seen in the Word of God no matter if you accept it or not.

it appears you do not agree that Jesus is God? I do not agree with you speaking of The HOLY SPIRIT TOO. You should be more humble about the Spirit of God. Just a polite suggestion.

You are in error. it's that simple You will refrain from addressing the Trinity as pagan. You will stop teaching dead saints to pray for us. You will do so or

1. you can leave and I bid you a good day, or you can be removed and I bid you good day agan.

We are done.

 

[Dino246]

Exactly, so why would Christ mention asking our departed brothers and sisters in heaven to pray for us if there were none yet? He wouldn’t, which is why he wouldn’t have taught his disciples about praying that way at that time.

He didn't, ever.

 

[BamaPapist]

He didn't, ever.

Right, because there were no Christians in heaven then...which was the whole point of why he wouldn’t of mentioned it. It would not make sense at that time in history.

 

[Athanasius377]

Sola Scriptura itself is not biblical, so good luck trying to make out the entire doctrine of the Trinity using just that method. Fortunately, Jesus created a Church to make these things clear to us.

Sola Scriptura is most certainly biblical. And you most certainly can draw out the doctrine of the Trinity using the just the Scriptures.

All Scripture is breathed out by God and profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, and for training in righteousness, that the man of God may be complete, equipped for every good work.

The Holy Bible: English Standard Version. (2016). (2 Ti 3:16–17). Wheaton, IL: Crossway Bibles.


And yes, Jesus founded the church which is a pillar and buttress of the truth (1 Tim 3:15). Both are true. But Rome is not that church.

 

[CS1]

Right, because there were no Christians in heaven then...which was the whole point of why he wouldn’t of mentioned it. It would not make sense at that time in history.

that point is mote because none of them were praying for those on earth.

 

[MattforJesus]

Funny,
you need to consider the context that is given in the sentence, verse, text, passage, Book, and whole bible. You need to learn the authorial intent. NOw I told you about the RCC Stuff and now I will tell you about the Trinity.

Mocking ridicule, scoffing. lambasting, calling the Doctrine of the Trinity Pagan will be the surest way to be removed from CC.

You are not Biblical in context to the dead praying, and that was provided for you from the very verses you used.

You nor I can fully know the full Nature of God we are limited. The Concept of the triune God is seen in the Word of God no matter if you accept it or not.

it appears you do not agree that Jesus is God? I do not agree with you speaking of The HOLY SPIRIT TOO. You should be more humble about the Spirit of God. Just a polite suggestion.

You are in error. it's that simple You will refrain from addressing the Trinity as pagan. You will stop teaching dead saints to pray for us. You will do so or

1. you can leave and I bid you a good day, or you can be removed and I bid you good day agan.

We are done.

I believe Jesus is God for He is God manifest in the flesh, and if you want to remove me go ahead.

Eph 4:6 One God and Father of all, who is above all, and through all, and in you all.

The Bible plainly states that there is one God the Father.