Why did the Lord create Israel?

[posthuman]

Exodus 34:10 Look, I am now making a covenant: I shall work such wonders at the head of your whole people as have never been worked in any other country or nation, and all the people around you will see what Yahweh can do, for what I shall do through you will be awe-inspiring.

The Lord had gentiles in mind when He created Israel.

God's intent was to redeem the peoples of the earth to Himself through the Messiah Jesus, Who would come through Israel.

i have heard it said that Israel was supposed to teach the Gentiles about the true God, but they did not - instead in their vanity thinking themselves exclusive and superior - and that this is who the 144,000 will be, Messianic Jews who see and understand and believe the sign of the abducting of the betrothed bride of Christ, who are converted by witnessing the rapture, and who then evangelize the lost world that remains during the tribulation.

i've heard this taught; i don't claim to 'know' eschatology, but make of it what you will

 

[Truth7t7]

i have heard it said that Israel was supposed to teach the Gentiles about the true God, but they did not - instead in their vanity thinking themselves exclusive and superior - and that this is who the 144,000 will be, Messianic Jews who see and understand and believe the sign of the abducting of the betrothed bride of Christ, who are converted by witnessing the rapture, and who then evangelize the lost world that remains during the tribulation.

i've heard this taught; i don't claim to 'know' eschatology, but make of it what you will

No such thing as a pre-trib rapture found in scripture, a false fabricated fairy tale of man.

 

[posthuman]

Ezekiel Chapters 40-46 Represents the 2nd Zerubbabel Temple built in 536BC after the Babylonian Captivity

nope; impossible.

dimensions are way off, the sacrifices offered do not match, there is no prince there acting like a priest, and no spring of water in the midst of it.

 

[Aldg19]

He made you in the hope that you (and I) might seek Him, surrender all to Him, and trust in the Blood of Jesus to save our souls unto eternal glory and fellowship with Him.

1 Corinthians
15:35 But some [man] will say, How are the dead raised up? and with what body do they come?
15:36 [Thou] fool, that which thou sowest is not quickened, except it die:
15:37 And that which thou sowest, thou sowest not that body that shall be, but bare grain, it may chance of wheat, or of some other [grain]:

Thanks

 

[posthuman]

Ezekiel Chapters 40-46 Represents the 2nd Zerubbabel Temple built in 536BC after the Babylonian Captivity

nope, impossible.

at best if you are right then they built the wrong temple and followed the wrong laws because they did not repent of their sin, so you are wrong, it does not represent the 2nd temple. if you are right then you are wrong, and if you are wrong you are certainly wrong.

Son of man, describe the temple to the house of Israel, that they may be ashamed of their iniquities; and let them measure the pattern. And if they are ashamed of all that they have done, make known to them the design of the temple and its arrangement, its exits and its entrances, its entire design and all its ordinances, all its forms and all its laws. Write it down in their sight, so that they may keep its whole design and all its ordinances, and perform them. ​

(Ezekiel 43:10-11)​

​

pay careful attention to the ordinances described in Ezekiel's vision and compare them to the books of Moses. they are not the same.
if you take Ezekiel 40-46 to represent the 2nd temple you would have them building the wrong temple and keeping the wrong law, so it does not represent the 2nd temple at all, either in geometry nor in liturgy.
if you insist that Ezekiel is describing the 2nd temple then you have to say the 2nd temple was not a temple at all, but an imposter.

The argument rests in interpretation of Ezekiel Chapters 40-48, it's that simple

certainly. it rests on a wrong interpretation that essentially refutes itself.

a good question to ask is why did Ezekiel write this down -- does that mean they were ashamed of their sin?
if so why didn't they build it according to the design, or keep the ordinances according to the vision?
did Ezekiel write this down "in their sight" or hidden from them, in his own book?

 

[posthuman]

Chapters 40-48 is the outcome of Ezekiel Chapters 36-39

nope; it's the conditional outcome of Ezekiel 43:10-11

God tells Ezekiel to describe the temple of his vision to them ((done -- Ezekiel 40-48 exists)) so that them may be ashamed
God tells Ezekiel if they are ashamed, then make known its design. ((done or not done? clearly they did not build a temple according to what's described in Ezekiel 40-49))

God tells us why Ezekiel makes known the vision and what to do if they repent.
did they repent? did they build the temple described and keep the law of the temple as described?
if they did not build the temple described then was the design made known in their sight?

Ezekiel 40-49 is not simple to understand!
the old men weep when the 2nd temple is built because it does not have the glory they knew it should have!! ((Ezra 3:12))
you think that was the Ezekiel temple, which is more glorious than the 1st? really??

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Read it again and again, plain, clear, simple, and easy to understand

Jesus Christ will return with the resurrection and glorified body of the believers, as death is swallowed up in victory (The End) not the start of a Kingdom on this earth

You can't bend and twist the very clear words of God below, to maintain your Kingdom on this earth, with mortal Jews present in earthly bodies (After The Second Coming)

(Then Cometh The End)

(Death Is Swallowed Up In Victory)

1 Corinthians 15:22-26 & 51-54KJV
22 For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive.
23 But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ's at his coming.
24 Then cometh the end, when he shall have delivered up the kingdom to God, even the Father; when he shall have put down all rule and all authority and power.
25 For he must reign, till he hath put all enemies under his feet.
26 The last enemy that shall be destroyed is death.

51 Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,
52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.
53 For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality.
54 So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory.

You read it again and again and again.

Ez 36: Moreover the word of the Lord came to me, saying: 17 “Son of man, when the house of Israel dwelt in their own land, they defiled it by their own ways and deeds; to Me their way was like the uncleanness of a woman in her customary impurity. 18 Therefore I poured out My fury on them for the blood they had shed on the land, and for their idols with which they had defiled it. 19 So I scattered them among the nations, and they were dispersed throughout the countries; I judged them according to their ways and their deeds. 20 When they came to the nations, wherever they went, they profaned My holy name—when they said of them, ‘These are the people of the Lord, and yet they have gone out of His land.’ 21 But I had concern for My holy name, which the house of Israel had profaned among the nations wherever they went.

once again, what Gentile nation can this be talking about?

Therefore say to the house of Israel, ‘Thus says the Lord God: “I do not do this for your sake, O house of Israel, but for My holy name’s sake, which you have profaned among the nations wherever you went. 23 And I will sanctify My great name, which has been profaned among the nations, which you have profaned in their midst; and the nations shall know that I am the Lord,” says the Lord God, “when I am hallowed in you before their eyes. 24 For I will take you from among the nations, gather you out of all countries, and bring you into your own land. 25 Then I will sprinkle clean water on you, and you shall be clean; I will cleanse you from all your filthiness and from all your idols. 26 I will give you a new heart and put a new spirit within you; I will take the heart of stone out of your flesh and give you a heart of flesh. 27 I will put My Spirit within you and cause you to walk in My statutes, and you will keep My judgments and do them. 28 Then you shall dwell in the land that I gave to your fathers; you shall be My people, and I will be your God. 2

the land he gave their fathers, removing them from the land where they were sent because of their sin

again, what gentile nation or person could this refers too?

instead of telling me to read. You need to read yourself. The next two chapters are the same, they just further support the restoration of Israel on earth, not heaven. Which will come much later,

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Ezekiel Chapters 40-46 Represents the 2nd Zerubbabel Temple built in 536BC after the Babylonian Captivity

Ezekiel Chapters 47-48 Represents the Eternal Kingdom in the New Heaven and Earth, where the river and tree of life are present

lolol..

thanks for the laugh

 

[oyster67]

This may seem like a terrible thing to say, but that all depends on whether or not you were made for eternal destruction...

That was a terrible thing to say, because it is wrong. No one was made for eternal destruction. Wicked men chose this end of their own free will and volition. They chose to reject the free call that went out to all.

2 Peter 3:9 The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.

 

[oyster67]

Jesus Christ will return with the resurrection and glorified body of the believers, as death is swallowed up in victory (The End) not the start of a Kingdom on this earth

Is this a typo or something? Of course this is the start of Christ's Millennial R

 

[Truth7t7]

Is this a typo or something? Of course this is the start of Christ's Millennial R

(Then Cometh The End) Something You Don't Want To See, Pretend As If It Doesn't Exist

Jesus Christ will return with the resurrection and glorified body of the believers, as death is swallowed up in victory (The End) not the start of a Kingdom on this earth

You can't bend and twist the very clear words of God below, to maintain your Kingdom on this earth, with mortal Jews present in earthly bodies (After The Second Coming)

(Then Cometh The End)

(Death Is Swallowed Up In Victory)

1 Corinthians 15:22-26 & 51-54KJV
22 For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive.
23 But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ's at his coming.
24 Then cometh the end, when he shall have delivered up the kingdom to God, even the Father; when he shall have put down all rule and all authority and power.
25 For he must reign, till he hath put all enemies under his feet.
26 The last enemy that shall be destroyed is death.

51 Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,
52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.
53 For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality.
54 So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory.

 

[oyster67]

Jesus Christ will return with the resurrection and glorified body of the believers, as death is swallowed up in victory (The End) not the start of a Kingdom on this earth

Is that a typo or something? The Second Coming of Christ with the previously raptured and glorified Church marks the start of Christ's Millennial Reign on this Earth.

You can't bend and twist the very clear words of God below, to maintain your Kingdom on this earth, with mortal Jews present in earthly bodies (After The Second Coming)

Don't have to bend or twist anything. It is a simple Biblical fact. There will be some who will rebel at the end of the Millennium.

Revelation
20:7 And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison,
20:8 And shall go out to deceive the nations which are in the four quarters of the earth, Gog and Magog, to gather them together to battle: the number of whom [is] as the sand of the sea.
20:9 And they went up on the breadth of the earth, and compassed the camp of the saints about, and the beloved city: and fire came down from God out of heaven, and devoured them.

 

[oyster67]

No such thing as a pre-trib rapture found in scripture, a false fabricated fairy tale of man.

Therein lies the root of your problem. You have built a house of cards based upon a denial of the Pre-Tribulation Rapture.

 

[oyster67]

1 Thessalonians
4:14 For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him.

That tells us that all those that have been born again will return with Christ down to Earth at His Second Coming. The next verses tells us how they got woke up and taken to heaven seven years prior (and also show us why there is no mention of the Church being on Earth during the Tribulation Period.)...

4:15 For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive [and] remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep.
4:16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:
4:17 Then we which are alive [and] remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.
4:18 Wherefore comfort one another with these words.

Build upon these Biblical facts and everything will work out just fine for you.

 

[posthuman]

Ezekiel Chapters 40-46 Represents the 2nd Zerubbabel Temple built in 536BC after the Babylonian Captivity

how do you explain this:

 

[oyster67]

Sorry about getting off-thread. I'll try to get back on...

Why did the Lord create Israel?

To take the good news to the rest of the world, which many refused to do when the time came to do it. Fortunately, God always makes a way.

 

[Hungry]

(Then Cometh The End) Something You Don't Want To See, Pretend As If It Doesn't Exist

Jesus Christ will return with the resurrection and glorified body of the believers, as death is swallowed up in victory (The End) not the start of a Kingdom on this earth

You can't bend and twist the very clear words of God below, to maintain your Kingdom on this earth, with mortal Jews present in earthly bodies (After The Second Coming)

(Then Cometh The End)

(Death Is Swallowed Up In Victory)

1 Corinthians 15:22-26 & 51-54KJV
22 For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive.
23 But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ's at his coming.
24 Then cometh the end, when he shall have delivered up the kingdom to God, even the Father; when he shall have put down all rule and all authority and power.
25 For he must reign, till he hath put all enemies under his feet.
26 The last enemy that shall be destroyed is death.

51 Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,
52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.
53 For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality.
54 So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory.

The end of the age, not the end of life.

 

[Lucy-Pevensie]

Lol @Truth7t7 i stead of giving me a red x, prove me wrong

prove where Isreal was completely restored after Babylon, prove where she repented and accepted the truth of God, prove where all Jews were in their land and ma y were not still scatterd

or your red x is meaningless

That poster is a heaving anti-Semite who totally opposes God's repeatedly stated plans for Israel.
It's not worth banging your head against the religious wall of replacement theology he espouses.

 

[Truth7t7]

how do you explain this:



View attachment 227633

We Will Disagree

Ezekiel 40-46 represents Israel returning from the 70 year Babylonian Captivity, and building the 2nd Zerubbabel Temple in 536BC

As seen in Ezekiel 40:1-4 below, Ezekiel was in the 25th year of the Babylonian Captivity, and he was instructed to show the vision to the house of Israel (In The Captivity) not some future generation 2500+ years and waiting

Ezekiel 40:1-4KJV
1 In the five and twentieth year of our captivity, in the beginning of the year, in the tenth day of the month, in the fourteenth year after that the city was smitten, in the selfsame day the hand of the Lord was upon me, and brought me thither.
2 In the visions of God brought he me into the land of Israel, and set me upon a very high mountain, by which was as the frame of a city on the south.
3 And he brought me thither, and, behold, there was a man, whose appearance was like the appearance of brass, with a line of flax in his hand, and a measuring reed; and he stood in the gate.
4 And the man said unto me, Son of man, behold with thine eyes, and hear with thine ears, and set thine heart upon all that I shall shew thee; for to the intent that I might shew them unto thee art thou brought hither: declare all that thou seest to the house of Israel.

Ezekiel was instructed to let Israel (In The Captivity) measure the pattern to build the temple, he wrote the laws and ordinances in "their" sight and "they" kept the whole thereof, not some future generation as you falsely believe and teach.

Ezekiel 43:10-11KJV
10 Thou son of man, shew the house to the house of Israel, that they may be ashamed of their iniquities: and let them measure the pattern.
11 And if they be ashamed of all that they have done, shew them the form of the house, and the fashion thereof, and the goings out thereof, and the comings in thereof, and all the forms thereof, and all the ordinances thereof, and all the forms thereof, and all the laws thereof: and write it in their sight, that they may keep the whole form thereof, and all the ordinances thereof, and do them.

 

[posthuman]

We Will Disagree

In other words you can't explain it and you'd rather be wrong?