The banishment of Adam and Eve

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M

MOC

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#1
Mar 20, 2020
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#1
Two punishments were given out by God for disobeying Him: 1.) They were cursed. 2.) They were banished from the Garden of Eden. God tells Adam that he can freely eat of every tree of the garden except from the tree of knowledge of good and evil. God says that if he eats from it, "he will surely die." The Bible doesn't tell us exactly how Eve knew of this tree and God's command concerning it. Since the husband is head over the household, Adam may have taken the responsibility of telling her what God has said. Eve told the serpent, "God said we shall not eat of it." Adam and Eve may have already known, intellectually, the difference between good and evil because of God's command. They knew it was right to eat from certain trees and wrong to eat from another. When they made the choice to disobey God, they knew evil experientially, because they themselves made the choice to sin against God. Most biblical scholars and church leaders teach that the reason for Adam and Eve's banishment was because they disobeyed God when they ate from the tree of knowledge of good and evil. This isn't the reason.

Genesis 3:6 "....she took of the fruit and did eat and gave also to her husband with her, and he did eat." Eve sinned first, being deceived of the serpent. But, Adam having knowingly sinned, is responsible for the fall of Mankind. Adam may have known the consequences of their sin but still chose to disobey God.

1 Timothy 2:14 "Adam was not deceived", he knowingly committed sin. The beginning of the fall of Mankind.

Genesis 3:22-24 Could this be the sole reason for banishing Adam and Eve from the Garden. "Lest he put forth his hand and also take of the tree of life, and live forever.......therefore the Lord of God sent him forth from the Garden of Eden."

The Two Trees
Something that many overlook is that the story mentions two trees. The tree of knowledge is what people most distinctively remember about that story. The other of course, is the tree of life. Both trees were special. One gave knowledge. The other, had some role in maintaining life to Adam and Eve and possibly to the animals as well.

The Curse
The banishment of Adam and Eve was one punishment. The other was that they were cursed. For the man, since he was head of the household, he will constantly feel the pressures and struggles for providing for his family, working and being responsible for his family's well-being. For the woman, her "sorrows" or birth pangs God multiplied in physical pain. Her desire would be to her husband. This desire could be a physical desire toward him or a natural desire to submit to his leadership and role in the household. Some believe that this "desire" could be conflicting as to not being willing to submit to him.

"And the Lord God said, behold, the man is become as one of us, to know good and evil: and now, lest he put forth his hand, and take also of the tree of life, and eat, and live forever." God drove Adam and Eve out of the Garden of Eden, away from the tree of life, so that they could not eat from it. So, this banishment was so that they couldn't eat from it again. The tree of life is guarded by Angels and it is by God's will that anyone will ever have access to it again.
Adam "knowingly" committed sin. It is most likely that he knew the consequences of their actions and yet still committed sin. Adam loved his wife so much, that he joined her in sin. Gentlemen, do we love our wives this much?;)
 
Nehemiah6

Nehemiah6

Senior Member
#2
Jul 18, 2017
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#2
MOC said:
Adam "knowingly" committed sin. It is most likely that he knew the consequences of their actions and yet still committed sin. Adam loved his wife so much, that he joined her in sin. Gentlemen, do we love our wives this much?
Click to expand...
Adam is not commended in Scripture for his disobedience and foolishness. He should have loved his wife enough so that she would not have had a dialogue with the devil. At the very least, he should have thrown that serpent out of Eden.
 
Dino246

Dino246

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#3
Jun 30, 2015
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#3
MOC said:
Two punishments were given out by God for disobeying Him: 1.) They were cursed. 2.) They were banished from the Garden of Eden.
Click to expand...
Friend, I would encourage you to read Genesis 3 more closely.

God cursed the serpent, and informed Adam that the ground was cursed. God did not curse Adam or Eve; rather, He told them what the consequences of their sin would be. Also, while they were banished from the garden, this was a blessing as it prevented them from eating of the tree of life in their fallen state.
 
R

Ruby123

Guest
#4
#4
Dino246 said:
Friend, I would encourage you to read Genesis 3 more closely.

God cursed the serpent, and informed Adam that the ground was cursed. God did not curse Adam or Eve; rather, He told them what the consequences of their sin would be. Also, while they were banished from the garden, this was a blessing as it prevented them from eating of the tree of life in their fallen state.
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I am just wondering why that would be bad if they ate from the tree of life in their fallen state?
 
H

Hungry

Banned
#7
Nov 26, 2012
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#7
MOC said:
Two punishments were given out by God for disobeying Him: 1.) They were cursed. 2.) They were banished from the Garden of Eden. God tells Adam that he can freely eat of every tree of the garden except from the tree of knowledge of good and evil. God says that if he eats from it, "he will surely die." The Bible doesn't tell us exactly how Eve knew of this tree and God's command concerning it. Since the husband is head over the household, Adam may have taken the responsibility of telling her what God has said. Eve told the serpent, "God said we shall not eat of it." Adam and Eve may have already known, intellectually, the difference between good and evil because of God's command. They knew it was right to eat from certain trees and wrong to eat from another. When they made the choice to disobey God, they knew evil experientially, because they themselves made the choice to sin against God. Most biblical scholars and church leaders teach that the reason for Adam and Eve's banishment was because they disobeyed God when they ate from the tree of knowledge of good and evil. This isn't the reason.

Genesis 3:6 "....she took of the fruit and did eat and gave also to her husband with her, and he did eat." Eve sinned first, being deceived of the serpent. But, Adam having knowingly sinned, is responsible for the fall of Mankind. Adam may have known the consequences of their sin but still chose to disobey God.

1 Timothy 2:14 "Adam was not deceived", he knowingly committed sin. The beginning of the fall of Mankind.

Genesis 3:22-24 Could this be the sole reason for banishing Adam and Eve from the Garden. "Lest he put forth his hand and also take of the tree of life, and live forever.......therefore the Lord of God sent him forth from the Garden of Eden."

The Two Trees
Something that many overlook is that the story mentions two trees. The tree of knowledge is what people most distinctively remember about that story. The other of course, is the tree of life. Both trees were special. One gave knowledge. The other, had some role in maintaining life to Adam and Eve and possibly to the animals as well.

The Curse
The banishment of Adam and Eve was one punishment. The other was that they were cursed. For the man, since he was head of the household, he will constantly feel the pressures and struggles for providing for his family, working and being responsible for his family's well-being. For the woman, her "sorrows" or birth pangs God multiplied in physical pain. Her desire would be to her husband. This desire could be a physical desire toward him or a natural desire to submit to his leadership and role in the household. Some believe that this "desire" could be conflicting as to not being willing to submit to him.

"And the Lord God said, behold, the man is become as one of us, to know good and evil: and now, lest he put forth his hand, and take also of the tree of life, and eat, and live forever." God drove Adam and Eve out of the Garden of Eden, away from the tree of life, so that they could not eat from it. So, this banishment was so that they couldn't eat from it again. The tree of life is guarded by Angels and it is by God's will that anyone will ever have access to it again.
Adam "knowingly" committed sin. It is most likely that he knew the consequences of their actions and yet still committed sin. Adam loved his wife so much, that he joined her in sin. Gentlemen, do we love our wives this much?;)
Click to expand...
Has it occurred to you that the story may be allegorical?
 
crossnote

crossnote

Senior Member
#8
Nov 24, 2012
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#8
MOC said:
Adam "knowingly" committed sin. It is most likely that he knew the consequences of their actions and yet still committed sin. Adam loved his wife so much, that he joined her in sin. Gentlemen, do we love our wives this much?;)
Click to expand...
Some have offered that Adam was a type of Christ in this instance. If Adam had not partaken (but only Eve), he knew that they would be separated forever, so he voluntarily took the plunge and ate out of his great love for Eve. Typifies Christ, who knew no sin became sin to die for His Bride the Church. (yes, yes, highly speculative...but interesting.)
 
crossnote

crossnote

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#9
Nov 24, 2012
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#9
Hungry said:
Has it occurred to you that the story may be allegorical?
Click to expand...
If it is allegorical then so is our sin, death and Christ's obedience and death in our stead according to Romans 5....

Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned: (For until the law sin was in the world: but sin is not imputed when there is no law. Nevertheless death reigned from Adam to Moses, even over them that had not sinned after the similitude of Adam's transgression, who is the figure of him that was to come. But not as the offence, so also is the free gift. For if through the offence of one many be dead, much more the grace of God, and the gift by grace, which is by one man, Jesus Christ, hath abounded unto many.

And not as it was by one that sinned, so is the gift: for the judgment was by one to condemnation, but the free gift is of many offences unto justification. For if by one man's offence death reigned by one; much more they which receive abundance of grace and of the gift of righteousness shall reign in life by one, Jesus Christ.) Therefore as by the offence of one judgment came upon all men to condemnation; even so by the righteousness of one the free gift came upon all men unto justification of life. For as by one man's disobedience many were made sinners, so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous.
(Rom 5:12-19)

Our salvation story is too closely linked to the historical facts of Genesis 3, it can't be allegory.
 
H

Hungry

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Nov 26, 2012
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crossnote said:
If it is allegorical then so is our sin, death and Christ's obedience and death in our stead according to Romans 5....

Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned: (For until the law sin was in the world: but sin is not imputed when there is no law. Nevertheless death reigned from Adam to Moses, even over them that had not sinned after the similitude of Adam's transgression, who is the figure of him that was to come. But not as the offence, so also is the free gift. For if through the offence of one many be dead, much more the grace of God, and the gift by grace, which is by one man, Jesus Christ, hath abounded unto many.

And not as it was by one that sinned, so is the gift: for the judgment was by one to condemnation, but the free gift is of many offences unto justification. For if by one man's offence death reigned by one; much more they which receive abundance of grace and of the gift of righteousness shall reign in life by one, Jesus Christ.) Therefore as by the offence of one judgment came upon all men to condemnation; even so by the righteousness of one the free gift came upon all men unto justification of life. For as by one man's disobedience many were made sinners, so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous.
(Rom 5:12-19)

Our salvation story is too closely linked to the historical facts of Genesis 3, it can't be allegory.
Click to expand...
Perhaps, or maybe there is more that is unexplainable so the “fall” is conveyed anecdotally for ease of comprehension. When I prayed for clarity, the Lord answered my prayer. The “fruit” of knowing right from wrong (tree of the knowledge of good and evil) is guilt.
 
crossnote

crossnote

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#11
Nov 24, 2012
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#11
Hungry said:
Perhaps, or maybe there is more that is unexplainable so the “fall” is conveyed anecdotally for ease of comprehension. When I prayed for clarity, the Lord answered my prayer. The “fruit” of knowing right from wrong (tree of the knowledge of good and evil) is guilt.
Click to expand...
It wouldn't be anecdotal because Moses wasn't in the Garden and Adam didn't write Genesis.
So you go from 'allegorical' to 'anecdotal', why not take it as an accurate literal historical account revealed to Moses from God?
Why play games with God's Word?
Genesis isn't hard to comprehend if you tie in the rest of Scipture to it.
 
H

Hungry

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Nov 26, 2012
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crossnote said:
It wouldn't be anecdotal because Moses wasn't in the Garden and Adam didn't write Genesis.
So you go from 'allegorical' to 'anecdotal', why not take it as an accurate literal historical account revealed to Moses from God?
Why play games with God's Word?
Genesis isn't hard to comprehend if you tie in the rest of Scipture to it.
Click to expand...
You think that six thousand years ago, a utopian paradise was created in six days left in the hands of one couple, who managed to lose it all in the first generation and cause it to be cursed because they listened to a crafty snake who told them to break the one and only rule, can be taken at face value? You are basing this on that Moses, wandering around in the wilderness with renegade shepherds, could fully understand a more complex beginning, but there just wasn’t one. The story has all the markings of a fable: miraculous beginnings, a cardinal rule, two trees with special powers, and a talking snake. For good measure let’s throw in a naive companion who brings it all down.

The ONLY way this story makes sense is if you only tie the rest of Scripture in. Because tying in the dinosaurs, lost civilizations, ancient artifacts, the pyramids and other megalithic structures only leaves loose ends. Christ said in the end times knowledge will be increased. We are at a time where things can be explained scientifically. The Bible gives a historical account of the Israelites. It’s not a textbook void of allegory to explain complex ideas. The Bible is 100% accurate in concept. We are created by a loving, merciful God who continually pursues us in hopes we will return to Him. Our lives and even afterlives are dependent on Him as we are His intellectual property. There are other “powers of darkness” contending Him and those who follow Him. Christ is His Devine Son who we are spiritually bound/grafted to, to do His will until His return. The unseen realm is not something easily explained to renegade shepherds, however we living in a world of 5G, the internet, remote controls, and instruments to detect vibratory frequencies, and the electromagnetic spectrum, cloning, artificial insemination and 3D printers have new metaphors and greater understanding. Knowledge has increased. I’m not trying to play with God’s word, I’m merely trying to understand it.
 
Evmur

Evmur

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#13
MOC said:
Two punishments were given out by God for disobeying Him: 1.) They were cursed. 2.) They were banished from the Garden of Eden. God tells Adam that he can freely eat of every tree of the garden except from the tree of knowledge of good and evil. God says that if he eats from it, "he will surely die." The Bible doesn't tell us exactly how Eve knew of this tree and God's command concerning it. Since the husband is head over the household, Adam may have taken the responsibility of telling her what God has said. Eve told the serpent, "God said we shall not eat of it." Adam and Eve may have already known, intellectually, the difference between good and evil because of God's command. They knew it was right to eat from certain trees and wrong to eat from another. When they made the choice to disobey God, they knew evil experientially, because they themselves made the choice to sin against God. Most biblical scholars and church leaders teach that the reason for Adam and Eve's banishment was because they disobeyed God when they ate from the tree of knowledge of good and evil. This isn't the reason.

Genesis 3:6 "....she took of the fruit and did eat and gave also to her husband with her, and he did eat." Eve sinned first, being deceived of the serpent. But, Adam having knowingly sinned, is responsible for the fall of Mankind. Adam may have known the consequences of their sin but still chose to disobey God.

1 Timothy 2:14 "Adam was not deceived", he knowingly committed sin. The beginning of the fall of Mankind.

Genesis 3:22-24 Could this be the sole reason for banishing Adam and Eve from the Garden. "Lest he put forth his hand and also take of the tree of life, and live forever.......therefore the Lord of God sent him forth from the Garden of Eden."

The Two Trees
Something that many overlook is that the story mentions two trees. The tree of knowledge is what people most distinctively remember about that story. The other of course, is the tree of life. Both trees were special. One gave knowledge. The other, had some role in maintaining life to Adam and Eve and possibly to the animals as well.

The Curse
The banishment of Adam and Eve was one punishment. The other was that they were cursed. For the man, since he was head of the household, he will constantly feel the pressures and struggles for providing for his family, working and being responsible for his family's well-being. For the woman, her "sorrows" or birth pangs God multiplied in physical pain. Her desire would be to her husband. This desire could be a physical desire toward him or a natural desire to submit to his leadership and role in the household. Some believe that this "desire" could be conflicting as to not being willing to submit to him.

"And the Lord God said, behold, the man is become as one of us, to know good and evil: and now, lest he put forth his hand, and take also of the tree of life, and eat, and live forever." God drove Adam and Eve out of the Garden of Eden, away from the tree of life, so that they could not eat from it. So, this banishment was so that they couldn't eat from it again. The tree of life is guarded by Angels and it is by God's will that anyone will ever have access to it again.
Adam "knowingly" committed sin. It is most likely that he knew the consequences of their actions and yet still committed sin. Adam loved his wife so much, that he joined her in sin. Gentlemen, do we love our wives this much?;)
Click to expand...
They were not cursed, the ground was cursed for their sakes. It was always God will that we should live forever, but not in sin, that's why the way to the tree of life was and is guarded. Jesus and Him crucified is that tree of life.
 
posthuman

posthuman

Senior Member
#15
Jul 31, 2013
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#15
Evmur said:
the ground was cursed for their sakes.
Click to expand...
amen

and God was not unjust! but "for your sake" is for our benefit -- not letting us go on thinking sin has no consequence, and showing that the burden of our sin would be removed from us in grace and taken up by another!
 
posthuman

posthuman

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#16
Jul 31, 2013
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#16
MOC said:
The other was that they were cursed. For the man, since he was head of the household, he will constantly feel the pressures and struggles for providing for his family, working and being responsible for his family's well-being. For the woman, her "sorrows" or birth pangs God multiplied in physical pain. Her desire would be to her husband. This desire could be a physical desire toward him or a natural desire to submit to his leadership and role in the household. Some believe that this "desire" could be conflicting as to not being willing to submit to him.
Click to expand...
they were not cursed. the Serpent was cursed, and the earth: Satan because he is the author of evil, and the ground on our behalf, just like the creature slain in order to cover them, God taking away the garment they thought to make for themselves and making one for them, washed in blood.

it is for our benefit that the woman is subject to her husband and gives birth with pain and sorrow, and for our benefit that the man must labor to bring good food from the earth in the midst of thorns. God's chastisement is not malicious punishment; it is His kindness towards us, to instruct us, to bring us to maturity in Him.

God is good and rich in mercy towards us. the judgement of Adam & his wife is not penal; it is rehabilitative. if God were damning them why didn't He leave them in their fig leaves?
 
posthuman

posthuman

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#17
Jul 31, 2013
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#17
Hungry said:
The ONLY way this story makes sense is if you only tie the rest of Scripture in.
Click to expand...
i agree with that statement sure!

but no one in scripture called this an imaginary fable; they believe it is the literal truth and that the literal truth itself is full of meaning. those in scripture who do not believe it are called fools & ungodly.
 
H

Hungry

Banned
#18
Nov 26, 2012
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#18
posthuman said:
i agree with that statement sure!

but no one in scripture called this an imaginary fable; they believe it is the literal truth and that the literal truth itself is full of meaning. those in scripture who do not believe it are called fools & ungodly.
Click to expand...
Perpetuating a metaphor isn’t confirming literalism. Just pray about it and see what God tells you. I know nobody can convince me when I “know” I’m right. I surely won’t convince you. I live my life according to logical interpretation of Scripture. Every thought and every deed is based on His word and how He explains it to me in ways I can understand. I searched and searched for decades for understanding. No information was omitted. It doesn’t mean I believe everything I read. I just include it all into a big picture under the scrutiny of Scripture. I fasted, meditated and prayed for clarity. He arranged all of the puzzle pieces into a very logical picture. Sure there are a couple (or more than a couple) pieces missing but it all makes sense. He is the Logos/Word. It means logical. It’s all by design. To put a magical tree in the middle of garden and say, “Don’t eat it,” isn’t logical.

Now to explain that because humans have the capacity to be trained like dogs, to know right from wrong, and that this produces guilt and shame, and that it is the etheric power of guilt that causes us to be out of nature is better presented in a story. Think about dogs. We teach them right and wrong. If it wasn’t for us conditioning them where to crap and not to eat out of the garbage they wouldn’t hide when we come home and there’s crap on the floor and garbage through the kitchen. Now because they have “Eaten from the Tree of Knowledge of Good and Evil” they are no longer instinctual. They are not aligned with natural law. Now they have the capacity to sin. When we forgive them, and lift their heads up and hug them they no longer feel the shame and return to us. Being born into sin is being cultured. We are taught right from wrong from the start giving us the capacity to sin and bare guilt. Being forgiven opens the spiritual connection to Our Creator. This is why we are to forgive others and how sacrificing animals restores us. It’s not the physical blood. It’s the placebo effect because of the blood and the perceived power. It eliminates guilt not sin. The sin is committed, the guilt remains. Forgiveness washes the guilt, the fruit of “The Tree.” Is this illogical?
 
crossnote

crossnote

Senior Member
#19
Nov 24, 2012
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#19
Hungry said:
You think that six thousand years ago, a utopian paradise was created in six days left in the hands of one couple, who managed to lose it all in the first generation and cause it to be cursed because they listened to a crafty snake who told them to break the one and only rule, can be taken at face value?
Click to expand...
This reminds me of what the serpent said to Eve..., "Yea, hath God said," (Gen 3.1). His game of doubt is being played out in you.

Hungry said:
You are basing this on that Moses, wandering around in the wilderness with renegade shepherds, could fully understand a more complex beginning, but there just wasn’t one. The story has all the markings of a fable: miraculous beginnings, a cardinal rule, two trees with special powers, and a talking snake. For good measure let’s throw in a naive companion who brings it all down.
Click to expand...
Sounds like you have been indoctrinated in a liberal seminary and have been brainwashed in humanistic rationalism. A modern day Sadducee, rejecting the miraculous. You might as well toss out all the miracles in the Bible.
Again this holds so true...

Isaiah 8:20 (KJV) To the law and to the testimony: if they speak not according to this word, it is because there is no light in them.
 
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