Apologetics vs Honor

[Webers.Home]

. It's very difficult to find a Christian with integrity, viz: one that can give you
a direct answer to a direct question about their beliefs and practices.

When a rational skeptic points out that some of God's actions are not only
unreasonable, but also downright evil, selfish, and sadistic; the average
Christian typically circles the wagons, i.e. they become defensive. Instead of
forthrightly agreeing that the critical thinker's appraisals make sense; the
defensive Christian waxes eloquent with a bombastic discourse, deftly
concealing the unspeakable truth that they too have sometimes entertained
the very same opinions.

I sincerely believe God appreciates honesty and totally despises deceit. So;
if perchance the day comes when God asks each of us point blank:

Was there ever a time when you felt that some of my actions were
unreasonable, unfair, inhumane, selfish, cruel, and/or the work of a mad
man?

Or:

Was there ever at time when you wished I didn't exist?

The answers coming out of our mouths better not be what we think He
wants to hear, or some scripted response learned in church, rather; exactly
what He knows already, i.e. it had better not be equivocation, sophistry, or
tiresome rhetoric, no, it had better be a crisp Yes or a No; and it had better
be honest.
_

 

[Webers.Home]

.
There are occasions when I prefer to sympathize with skeptics rather than
argue with them seeing as how I and they have many opinions in common;
for example:

GOD'S QUESTION: Should I have stepped in to prevent the Serpent from
tempting Eve?

MY RESPONSE: Yes.

GOD'S QUESTION: Was there ever a time when you resented My control
over your life?

MY RESPONSE: Yes.

GOD'S QUESTION: Are you dissatisfied with Hades and/or the Lake Of Fire?

MY RESPONSE: Yes; both.

GOD'S QUESTION: Was there ever a time when you felt that some of My
actions were unreasonable, unfair, inhumane, selfish, cruel, and/or the work
of a mad man?

MY RESPONSE: Yes.

GOD'S QUESTION: Was there ever a time when you wished I didn't exist?

MY RESPONSE: Yes.

The Bible urges Christ's followers to come before the throne of grace with
boldness. (Heb 4:15-16). The Greek word for boldness is parrhesia (par
rhay-see' ah) which means all out-spokenness, i.e. frankness, bluntness,
and/or candor.

For many years I suppressed my deepest thoughts and feelings about God,
and about Jesus too, because those thoughts and feelings were just too
unholy to out. Thus I kept a certain amount of my innermost being secret
from God. Well; in time I came to a realization that keeping secrets from
God is not only stressful, but also quite futile.

Transparency is a popular buzz word that roughly means free from pretense
or deceit. When I see a Christian go ballistic with an apologetic, I know
they're hiding something, and terrified that somebody will come along and
figure it out.
_

 

[crossnote]

. It's very difficult to find a Christian with integrity, viz: one that can give you
a direct answer to a direct question about their beliefs and practices.

When a rational skeptic points out that some of God's actions are not only
unreasonable, but also downright evil, selfish, and sadistic; the average
Christian typically circles the wagons, i.e. they become defensive. Instead of
forthrightly agreeing that the critical thinker's appraisals make sense; the
defensive Christian waxes eloquent with a bombastic discourse, deftly
concealing the unspeakable truth that they too have sometimes entertained
the very same opinions.

I sincerely believe God appreciates honesty and totally despises deceit. So;
if perchance the day comes when God asks each of us point blank:

Was there ever a time when you felt that some of my actions were
unreasonable, unfair, inhumane, selfish, cruel, and/or the work of a mad
man?

Or:

Was there ever at time when you wished I didn't exist?

The answers coming out of our mouths better not be what we think He
wants to hear, or some scripted response learned in church, rather; exactly
what He knows already, i.e. it had better not be equivocation, sophistry, or
tiresome rhetoric, no, it had better be a crisp Yes or a No; and it had better
be honest.
_

Would you answer with a crisp Yes or No?

Perhaps honesty involves an explanation.

 

[crossnote]

For many years I suppressed my deepest thoughts and feelings about God,
and about Jesus too, because those thoughts and feelings were just too
unholy to out. Thus I kept a certain amount of my innermost being secret
from God. Well; in time I came to a realization that keeping secrets from
God is not only stressful, but also quite futile.

Were you born again those 'many years'?

Romans 8:16 (NASB) The Spirit Himself testifies with our spirit that we are children of God,

If we have the Spirit bearing witness with our spirit that we are children of God, why would we doubt and suppress our feelings about God for many years??

 

[Webers.Home]

.

Were you born again those 'many years'? Romans 8:16 (NASB) The Spirit
Himself testifies with our spirit that we are children of God, If we have the
Spirit bearing witness with our spirit that we are children of God, why would
we doubt and suppress our feelings about God for many years??

I do not care to explain myself, nor do I have the slightest interest in
hearing you explain yourself.

Just answer the six questions listed below with a Yes or a No as honestly as
you can. If your responses are too personal, then it's okay to remain silent,
but keeping in mind that one day you may be required to stand before God
and answer openly rather than secretly.

For example: the Lord most likely knew in advance Peter's innermost
thoughts when asked how he felt about Jesus (John 21:15-17). But the Lord
wasn't satisfied till Peter came out with his feelings one on one, face to face,
man to man.

1» Was there ever a time when you felt that God should've stepped in to
prevent the Serpent from tempting Eve?

2» Was there ever a time when you resented God's control over your life?

3» Was there ever a time when you were dissatisfied with Hades and/or the
Lake Of Fire? In other words: was there a time when you felt those
punishments go too far, i.e. they're over-kill; too extreme.

4» God knew in advance that He would regret creating humankind, and that
He would be drowning most of it in a global deluge; yet went ahead and
created people anyway. Has there ever been a time when you felt there was
something sick and twisted about God for doing that?

5» Was there ever a time when you felt that some of God's actions were
unreasonable, unfair, inhumane, selfish, cruel, and/or the work of a mad
man?

6» Was there ever a time when you wished God didn't exist?

The questions themselves don't really matter all that much. What matters
most is whether you answer them honestly; because in order to establish a
productive rapport with God, people have to be transparent rather than
secretive. So don't beat around the bush and/or make excuses. Whatever
you do, don't try God's patience; just answer Him forthrightly and get it over
with.
_

 

[crossnote]

I do not care to explain myself, nor do I have the slightest interest in
hearing you explain yourself.

Just answer the six questions listed below with a Yes or a No as honestly as
you can. If your responses are too personal, then it's okay to remain silent,
but keeping in mind that one day you may be required to stand before God
and answer openly rather than secretly.

You won’t be honest and frankly answer my questions but you expect others to honestly answer yours?
A bit of hypocrisy going on. What’s good for the goose is good for the gander. The Emergent Church was never my cup of tea.
Have a nice day.

 

[Pilgrimshope]

. It's very difficult to find a Christian with integrity, viz: one that can give you
a direct answer to a direct question about their beliefs and practices.

When a rational skeptic points out that some of God's actions are not only
unreasonable, but also downright evil, selfish, and sadistic; the average
Christian typically circles the wagons, i.e. they become defensive. Instead of
forthrightly agreeing that the critical thinker's appraisals make sense; the
defensive Christian waxes eloquent with a bombastic discourse, deftly
concealing the unspeakable truth that they too have sometimes entertained
the very same opinions.

I sincerely believe God appreciates honesty and totally despises deceit. So;
if perchance the day comes when God asks each of us point blank:

Was there ever a time when you felt that some of my actions were
unreasonable, unfair, inhumane, selfish, cruel, and/or the work of a mad
man?

Or:

Was there ever at time when you wished I didn't exist?

The answers coming out of our mouths better not be what we think He
wants to hear, or some scripted response learned in church, rather; exactly
what He knows already, i.e. it had better not be equivocation, sophistry, or
tiresome rhetoric, no, it had better be a crisp Yes or a No; and it had better
be honest.
_

“When a rational skeptic points out that some of God's actions are not only
unreasonable, but also downright evil, selfish, and sadistic;”

because rational skeptics come up with theories like that and believers of the gospel know that’s an erroneous view of God that the rational skeptic has concluded that God acts in “selfish and downright evil ways “

I think probably those Christians who circle the wagons are hoping you look at Jesus and see the real God and how he acts and whether there is a single solitary selfish act in him or if he acts in evil ways

terribly distressing post

 

[CS1]

. It's very difficult to find a Christian with integrity, viz: one that can give you
a direct answer to a direct question about their beliefs and practices.

When a rational skeptic points out that some of God's actions are not only
unreasonable, but also downright evil, selfish, and sadistic; the average
Christian typically circles the wagons, i.e. they become defensive. Instead of
forthrightly agreeing that the critical thinker's appraisals make sense; the
defensive Christian waxes eloquent with a bombastic discourse, deftly
concealing the unspeakable truth that they too have sometimes entertained
the very same opinions.

I sincerely believe God appreciates honesty and totally despises deceit. So;
if perchance the day comes when God asks each of us point-blank:

Was there ever a time when you felt that some of my actions were
unreasonable, unfair, inhumane, selfish, cruel, and/or the work of a mad
man?

Or:

Was there ever at time when you wished I didn't exist?

The answers coming out of our mouths better not be what we think He
wants to hear, or some scripted response learned in church, rather; exactly
what He knows already, i.e. it had better not be equivocation, sophistry, or
tiresome rhetoric, no, it had better be a crisp Yes or a No; and it had better
be honest.
_

I disagree with your point for a few reasons here is why.


"When a rational skeptic points out that some of God's actions are not only
unreasonable, but also downright evil, selfish, and sadistic; the average
Christian typically circles the wagons, i.e. they become defensive."

The first issue with your comment I see is :

1. rational skeptic

This is the carnal-minded person and seeing God's action from a humanistic point of view, not a Biblical Christian view. Human reasoning and human moral relativeness are substandard to the God of the Bible. Christians would never say or see God of the Bible as Evil, selfish, and sadistic. In fact, that would make most Christian fearful to even think this.
Unreasonable God? really? God who by HIS own authority as the Creator with HIS attributes can wipe us all out as we see in the Bible and all of us can be on our way to Hell BUT God did something that most humans would never do

Give up their only son for you and me and those who hate HIM. YES, it is irrational and unreasonable for God to do such a thing unless HE loves us.

 

[p_rehbein]

When a rational skeptic points out that some of God's actions are not only
unreasonable, but also downright evil, selfish, and sadistic;

I strongly disagree with this statement, regardless of who makes it. It is the UNTRUTH of the deceiver!

 

[eternally-gratefull]

.
When a rational skeptic points out that some of God's actions are not only
unreasonable, but also downright evil, selfish, and sadistic; the average
Christian typically circles the wagons, i.e. they become defensive. Instead of
forthrightly agreeing that the critical thinker's appraisals make sense;
_

How can a rational Christian who understands the sacrifice God gave to save us who are truly evil. The rational christian would NEVER even contemplate what you are suggesting.

 

[Dino246]

Job asked questions. God answered. Job realized that he had no business challenging God.

The so-called "rational skeptic" considers himself in a position to judge God, despite his own lack of complete knowledge.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Job asked questions. God answered. Job realized that he had no business challenging God.

The so-called "rational skeptic" considers himself in a position to judge God, despite his own lack of complete knowledge.

Job 38: 1 Then the Lord answered Job out of the whirlwind, and said:
2 “Who is this who darkens counsel
By words without knowledge?
3 Now [a]prepare yourself like a man;
I will question you, and you shall answer Me.

4 “Where were you when I laid the foundations of the earth?
Tell Me, if you have understanding.
5 Who determined its measurements?
Surely you know!
Or who stretched the [b]line upon it?
6 To what were its foundations fastened?
Or who laid its cornerstone,
7 When the morning stars sang together,
And all the sons of God shouted for joy?

8 “Or who shut in the sea with doors,
When it burst forth and issued from the womb;
9 When I made the clouds its garment,
And thick darkness its swaddling band;
10 When I fixed My limit for it,
And set bars and doors;
11 When I said,
‘This far you may come, but no farther,
And here your proud waves must stop!’

12 “Have you commanded the morning since your days began,
And caused the dawn to know its place,
13 That it might take hold of the ends of the earth,
And the wicked be shaken out of it?
14 It takes on form like clay under a seal,
And stands out like a garment.
From the wicked their light is withheld,
And the [c]upraised arm is broken.

16 “Have you entered the springs of the sea?
Or have you walked in search of the depths?
17 Have the gates of death been [d]revealed to you?
Or have you seen the doors of the shadow of death?
18 Have you comprehended the breadth of the earth?
Tell Me, if you know all this.

19 “Where is the way to the dwelling of light?
And darkness, where is its place,
20 That you may take it to its territory,
That you may know the paths to its home?
21 Do you know it, because you were born then,
Or because the number of your days is great?

22 “Have you entered the treasury of snow,
Or have you seen the treasury of hail,
23 Which I have reserved for the time of trouble,
For the day of battle and war?
24 By what way is light [e]diffused,
Or the east wind scattered over the earth?

25 “Who has divided a channel for the overflowing water,
Or a path for the thunderbolt,
26 To cause it to rain on a land where there is no one,
A wilderness in which there is no man;
27 To satisfy the desolate waste,
And cause to spring forth the growth of tender grass?
28 Has the rain a father?
Or who has begotten the drops of dew?
29 From whose womb comes the ice?
And the frost of heaven, who gives it birth?
30 The waters harden like stone,
And the surface of the deep is frozen.[f]

31 “Can you bind the cluster of the Pleiades,[g]
Or loose the belt of Orion?
32 Can you bring out [h]Mazzaroth in its season?
Or can you guide [i]the Great Bear with its cubs?
33 Do you know the ordinances of the heavens?
Can you set their dominion over the earth?

34 “Can you lift up your voice to the clouds,
That an abundance of water may cover you?
35 Can you send out lightnings, that they may go,
And say to you, ‘Here we are!’?
36 Who has put wisdom in [j]the mind?
Or who has given understanding to the heart?
37 Who can number the clouds by wisdom?
Or who can pour out the bottles of heaven,
38 When the dust hardens in clumps,
And the clods cling together?

39 “Can you hunt the prey for the lion,
Or satisfy the appetite of the young lions,
40 When they crouch in their dens,
Or lurk in their lairs to lie in wait?
41 Who provides food for the raven,
When its young ones cry to God,
And wander about for lack of food?

 

[Webers.Home]

.
Will all of you please stop writing critiques and apologetics and just answer
the questions listed in the OP and/or posts No.2 and No.5

Thank You.
_

 

[soberxp]

Do you love Jesus? but still against his teaching..............

 

[Mem]

Why would God ask you any of these questions? For your counsel?.. To see if He's got the right hunch about you?.. To shame you mebbe?

 

[DeanM]

Too much copy paste for my ADD.

 

[soberxp]

Do you really understand The scripture even revelation?
for understand is understand,
don't understand is don't understand,
so called understand.

 

[Webers.Home]

.

Why would God ask you any of these questions?

There are many things that God knows about people that He doesn't have to
ask. However, there are times when knowing alone doesn't satisfy Him.

For example: God already knew in advance whether Abraham would go thru
with sacrificing his son Isaac. But knowing is different than actually watching
a current event as an on-scene eye witness in real time.

In other words: what God knows in His head is very different than what He's
seen for himself. Same thing applies to Sodom and Gomorrah, It wasn't
necessary for God to come down out of Heaven and visit the city for Himself
to know that it was a deplorable community, but He did anyway because He
wanted to see for Himself up close and personal as an eye witness. Same
goes for the Tower of Babel.

And Christ most likely knew in advance Peter's innermost thoughts when
asked how he felt about Jesus (John 21:15-17). But the Lord wasn't satisfied
till Peter came out with his feelings one on one, face to face, man to man.

I look forward to a sit down with God with about as much pleasure as I look
forward to a root canal; and like a root canal; I'll be very glad when it's over.
_

 

[Mem]

.



There are many things that God knows about people that He doesn't have to
ask. However, there are times when knowing alone doesn't satisfy Him.

For example: God already knew in advance whether Abraham would go thru
with sacrificing his son Isaac. But knowing is different than actually watching
a current event as an on-scene eye witness in real time.

In other words: what God knows in His head is very different than what He's
seen for himself. Same thing applies to Sodom and Gomorrah, It wasn't
necessary for God to come down out of Heaven and visit the city for Himself
to know that it was a deplorable community, but He did anyway because He
wanted to see for Himself up close and personal as an eye witness. Same
goes for the Tower of Babel.

And Christ most likely knew in advance Peter's innermost thoughts when
asked how he felt about Jesus (John 21:15-17). But the Lord wasn't satisfied
till Peter came out with his feelings one on one, face to face, man to man.

I look forward to a sit down with God with about as much pleasure as I look
forward to a root canal; and like a root canal; I'll be very glad when it's over.
_

I see. This version of God and your relatively correct answers is just to taking the opportunity to show off your honor? Yes? No?

It seem that you have not come to know God as intimately as Abraham, Isaac, or Peter, going by your view of Him coming from the vantage of Sodom, Gomorrah, and Babel. However, God did not approach any of these for His own advantage.

For example, for Peter's own benefit, Jesus ministered to the shame and guilt that He saw Peter was holding in his heart, and helped restore Peter's confidence in Christ's love and receive His forgiveness in truth. I have no doubt that, somewhere along the course of this interaction, Jesus' word came back to Peter's mind, "you love Me because I first loved you."

 

[Seeker47]

No!

Your original post is one of the most fascinating I have read here. Not because of either the questions nor the answers, but because of the mental and linguistic gymnastics that accompany them. If it is deliberate, you are brilliant; if not please keep studying the Word.

A friend in Christ.