Respecting the law

[eternally-gratefull]

Respect of the law

what I want to know is how someone can claim they repent the law. Yet take the law out of context, twist it, and turn it into something that was never intended, tried to bring other people under their false application of the law. Then yell at others who disagree with them

that is called disrespecting the law

the law can not help you overcome sin, it was given ONlY to condemn you of sin so you can turn to Christ, your lamb of God.

 

[JaumeJ]

Fist of all, the laws given to Moses were from the Word, Jesus Yeshua. Second, of course He came to teach us, and among the lessons is how to obey Him under graqce.

Not true. Most of the epistles were written prior to the destruction of the Temple around AD70, John wrote Revelation around AD95. Paul claimed that what he preached was the word of God. Either he was the worst of liars or he was telling the truth. There is no in between.

My post is of the two books named by men, the Old Testaement and the New.
Perhaps the Epistles were written to specific assemblies,hoever the NT was not assembled befor that time mentioned.

 

[de-emerald]

Respect of the law

what I want to know is how someone can claim they repent the law. Yet take the law out of context, twist it, and turn it into something that was never intended, tried to bring other people under their false application of the law. Then yell at others who disagree with them

that is called disrespecting the law

the law can not help you overcome sin, it was given ONlY to condemn you of sin so you can turn to Christ, your lamb of God.

This is disrespecting only one meaning of law.

youre also defending your moral standards of the law and dont like your view of the law to be questioned. its clear your understanding of the law means a lot to you,

does it offend you to see your idea of the law as written in the bible disrespected?

do you fear judgement ?

 

[eternally-gratefull]

This is disrespecting only one meaning of law.

there is only one purpose of the law. Paul gave it to you in Gal 3

the law is also called the minister of death written in stone, the curse (cursed is the one who does not confirm and obey EVERY WORD.

the law was never given to show us HOW to be morally upright people. It was given to prove how morally bancrupt we are.

so to try to put us back under law, we’ll as paul says, your indebted to keep every word.

James makes it clear. if I live my whole life keeping the law, yet just stumble in one point. I a, guilty,

youre also defending your moral standards of the law and dont like your view of the law to be questioned. its clear your understanding of the law means a lot to you,

does it offend you to see your idea of the law as written in the bible disrespected?

do you fear judgement ?

my moral standards? i follow Gods moral standard according the the law Perfection, last I looke Jesus is the only man who fulfilled the moral obligation of the law, the rest of us, well as paul said, we all fall short (sinned) of Gods moral standard,

the law can not even show you ever sin, as Jesus said, the law says don’t commit adultry, but he said if you look with lust you have sinned, the law can not tell you that, so you can go your whole life never having committed physical adultry, thinking your righteous, ye have been sin ing that whole time because of your thought life,

thats why the law is not moral guidance, it was not given for that purpose,

people who try to follow law, and think are doing good, they water down the law, as paul said if I put myself back under that yoke, when he said if he rebuilds that which died, he becomes a transgressor, he said he died to the law so he could live for christ

you can’t live for Christ under law

truly my friend, when you say my moral standard. You need to check your own moral standard. Because I fear yours is not high enough

oh and ps, I am not offended

 

[de-emerald]

there is only one purpose of the law. Paul gave it to you in Gal 3

the law is also called the minister of death written in stone, the curse (cursed is the one who does not confirm and obey EVERY WORD.

the law was never given to show us HOW to be morally upright people. It was given to prove how morally bancrupt we are.

so to try to put us back under law, we’ll as paul says, your indebted to keep every word.

James makes it clear. if I live my whole life keeping the law, yet just stumble in one point. I a, guilty,


my moral standards? i follow Gods moral standard according the the law Perfection, last I looke Jesus is the only man who fulfilled the moral obligation of the law, the rest of us, well as paul said, we all fall short (sinned) of Gods moral standard,

the law can not even show you ever sin, as Jesus said, the law says don’t commit adultry, but he said if you look with lust you have sinned, the law can not tell you that, so you can go your whole life never having committed physical adultry, thinking your righteous, ye have been sin ing that whole time because of your thought life,

thats why the law is not moral guidance, it was not given for that purpose,

people who try to follow law, and think are doing good, they water down the law, as paul said if I put myself back under that yoke, when he said if he rebuilds that which died, he becomes a transgressor, he said he died to the law so he could live for christ

you can’t live for Christ under law

truly my friend, when you say my moral standard. You need to check your own moral standard. Because I fear yours is not high enough

oh and ps, I am not offended

and the other question was do you fear Judgement

 

[JaumeJ]

Jesus Yeshua has already been on trial just for all who believe Him. I do fear my maker ias regarding His Authority over all that is.
As per being under thae law, I am under grace with graratitude being my motive to obey the Word of God.........Jesus Yeshua.

Allo too many who claim to believe Him deny His Authority, His Love and His teaching. They will go to any other before going to Him.

Read all the posts quoting writers of everything from doctrines of man to just plane blasphemies.

Perfect Love drives out all fear, however it is true that the fear of God is the beginning of wisdom. Have you begun? I pray it be so.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

and the other question was do you fear Judgement

Matthew 11:28
Come to Me, all you who labor and are heavy laden, and I will give yourest.


2 Timothy 1:7
For God has not given us a spirit of fear, but of power and oflove and of a sound mind

Romans 8:15
For you did not receive the spirit ofbondage again to fear, but you received the Spirit of adoption by whom we cry out, “Abba, Father.”

if you fear judgment something is wrong

at the same time, if you try to follow the law and do not fear something is wrong

we are under law (cursed). or grace

for this who have left the tutor, we have nothing to fear.

 

[Dino246]

oh come on it is an honest question, the op does the question no favour in one sence because you see the fear of Judgment. but thats not my fault because im only repeating what the law says.

I posted this in another forum, i would like to know what you think of my analogy and i hope that we can be freinds and welcome your reply what ever it may be.

Here is my analogy.
are job is to obey the law the best we can. i think the problem is to many people equate the law to Gods wrath and then become defensive, That Jesus loves them.

People will do this automaticaly in there mind without realising it. Ive noticed this trend that people assume your equating works and the law to Gods wrath that your automaticaly assuming your doing good works or obeying the law to avoid Gods Judgemenet, I think theres many in here that live in fear of Gods Judgement but they dont know that they are, and then they get defensive. In turn they do the same thing and preach a side of Gods law that avoids Gods Judgement to, which is we are free from the curse of law, or the law does not save you or we are not under the law, its the same thought in mind that everyone in some way or another is in fear of Gods Judgement. and want to avoid Gods Judgement and this is how you do it etc.

Both sides are still in fear of the lord and come to know the lord lol

I don't see an analogy in either the single sentence or the paragraph. Rather, I see a summary of your views on

I don't see in the New Testament any statements about "obey the law the best you can" (if you do, please share them). What I do see is "Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ."

I don't see how "We are not under the law" is "a side of Gods (sic) law". There is no fear of the law, or judgment resulting from it, for the person who is not under the law. In my view much of the reason you get critical feedback is that you use "law" to mean so many different things, that it is unclear what you mean. Most Christians on this site use "law" to mean the Law of Moses, and distinguish it clearly from faith in Christ.

 

[Dino246]

If the master teacher teaches the same moral law, can you transgress the law as much as you want to and still go to Heaven?
Can you be a habitual liar and murderer and continually take the Lords name in vain and still walk through the gates of heaven without any need of repentance.

This is the typical Judaizer's baited question. It's fallacious, because it assumes wrongly that there are only two options: follow the law rigorously or be a profligate sinner.

 

[Dino246]

this is were people have it mixed up.
The law does not make us perfect, and we can never keep the law to be good enough, there will be no boasting in heaven that we did it ourselves.
But the law (10 commandments) is the standard of righteousness (sinlessness). when written on the heart the way God designed we become more and more Christlike in character. If we say it does not apply today the standard of sin is taken away and we have no need of repentance.

I disagree. For Christians, the law is indeed written on our hearts. However, that doesn't mean it is written in specific words; rather, it means that our hearts are changed so that the inclination to sin diminishes. It means we become Christlike, so loving God and our fellow humans become the default behaviours instead of merely the goal. I don't avoid murdering people because the sixth commandment says "Thou shalt not murder" but because murder is completely contrary to love.

when you sin, what defines it as sin?

The conviction of the Holy Spirit within you, working through your conscience.

 

[JaumeJ]

Understand this simple truth. Sin is breaking the law.

We who are saved by grace do our very best to obey those laws inscribed upon our hearts, but oft times we slip up. We are forgiven, but we do not live in disobedience for disobedience is as a life style is ingratitude for the Blood given for us.

If this is what somehere twist to mean being under the law, then some will just have to live with it. These some are those who will not come to understanding when Jesus Yeshua teaches He did not come to destroy the law, rather to fulfill it. It is being fulfilled daily in His Body member here in this sage with His guidance from th[e Right Hand Side of God, amen,.

 

[Dino246]

Understand this simple truth. Sin is breaking the law.

Respectfully, I disagree. If sin were defined as "breaking the law" then there would need to be a law for everything. However, God didn't make a law for everything. He did declare, through Paul, that "Whatever is not of faith is sin" (Romans 14:23).

One person can drink wine in freedom. For another person, drinking wine is a sin. How can it be sin for one person but not for another, when there is no law that says, "Thou shalt not drink wine"?

 

[SophieT]

why do you want to know ?. is it so you can carry on to single me out just like you have done allready ?.

how many time have you and others tried to single me out now ? have you and others decided to hate me because i asked a question can a christian become possessed.

carry on to single me out if you want im beyond being offended here anymore.

LOL!

don't start threads and no one will (cough cough) single you out. YOU are the op. what did you expect?

 

[JaumeJ]

I see

Understand this simple truth. Sin is breaking the law.

We who are saved by grace do our very best to obey those laws inscribed upon our hearts, but oft times we slip up. We are forgiven, but we do not live in disobedience for disobedience is as a life style is ingratitude for the Blood given for us.

If this is what somehere twist to mean being under the law, then some will just have to live with it. These some are those who will not come to understanding when Jesus Yeshua teaches He did not come to destroy the law, rather to fulfill it. It is being fulfilled daily in His Body member here in this sage with His guidance from th[e Right Hand Side of God, amen,.

First of all, are we not diswcussing the Bible_ The definition of sin in the Word is breaking the law.
Now if you understand the law bgy the Holy Spirit you must be in the grace afforded by the Blood of the Lamb of God.
If you understand according to the teaching of Yeshua Jesus, you are also in grace.
If all you see when reading the law is Law and not love, you have not come to understand our Savior, but you are a spiritiless lawyer.
It is obvious by your retort you have not ever understood my posting on the Law after the advent of Jesus Yeshua, so why do you bother tocontinue as if you do? God bless you and keep you close. j

If you see a lot of yellow here, it is in error, ignor it. tu.

 

[de-emerald]

Matthew 11:28
Come to Me, all you who labor and are heavy laden, and I will give yourest.


2 Timothy 1:7
For God has not given us a spirit of fear, but of power and oflove and of a sound mind

Romans 8:15
For you did not receive the spirit ofbondage again to fear, but you received the Spirit of adoption by whom we cry out, “Abba, Father.”

if you fear judgment something is wrong

at the same time, if you try to follow the law and do not fear something is wrong

we are under law (cursed). or grace

for this who have left the tutor, we have nothing to fear.

Having a concern towards Judgement can be good to. Seeking Gods Judgement in many laws he writes on how to handle a situation. i think it was normal to seeks Gods Judgement in everything you do.

This is also why i respect Gods laws because gods word is like a double edged sword able to judge the mind and heart. and at the same time able to bring love and restore.
To fear Gods judgement is not bondage to me, to fear Gods judgement is normal to me.
To live in fear all the time would be bondage which i think your scripture you posted is saying but the scriptures you posted doesnt relate to fearing Gods Judgement.


Gods goodness brings people to repentance. and the judgement of Gods will brings people to repentance this is written and it applies to us everyday. If i didnt respect this i could Judge for my self and get it wrong.

I make mistakes just like anyone but if i had no fear of Gods Judgement i would just keep making the same mistakes . or if i didnt have a fear of Gods Judgement i could have a hardened heart. or not change my heart or not be convicted by the holy spirit.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Having a concern towards Judgement can be good to. Seeking Gods Judgement in many laws he writes on how to handle a situation. i think it was normal to seeks Gods Judgement in everything you do.

This is also why i respect Gods laws because gods word is like a double edged sword able to judge the mind and heart. and at the same time able to bring love and restore.
To fear Gods judgement is not bondage to me, to fear Gods judgement is normal to me.
To live in fear all the time would be bondage which i think your scripture you posted is saying but the scriptures you posted doesnt relate to fearing Gods Judgement.


Gods goodness brings people to repentance. and the judgement of Gods will brings people to repentance this is written and it applies to us everyday. If i didnt respect this i could Judge for my self and get it wrong.

I make mistakes just like anyone but if i had no fear of Gods Judgement i would just keep making the same mistakes . or if i didnt have a fear of Gods Judgement i could have a hardened heart. or not change my heart or not be convicted by the holy spirit.

If you fear Gods judgment I have to wonder if your saved. Because if you fear gods judgment where is your faith in his salvation

just saying

 

[de-emerald]

If you fear Gods judgment I have to wonder if your saved. Because if you fear gods judgment where is your faith in his salvation

just saying

Im not ashamed to say i fear Gods Judgement, and i never will.

 

[Pilgrimshope]

@Pilgrimshope

have a look at this scripture

“For the law was given by Moses, but grace and truth came by Jesus Christ.”
John‬ ‭1:17‬ ‭KJV‬‬

Does this scripture say that moses created law ?

no it says the law was mediated but Moses , but what does this say about the law ?

“For as many as are of the works of the law are under the curse: for it is written, Cursed is every one that continueth not in all things which are written in the book of the law to do them.


But that no man is justified by the law in the sight of God, it is evident: for, The just shall live by faith.”
‭‭Galatians‬ ‭3:10-11‬ ‭KJV‬‬

interpret that one and then interpret this one

“And the law is not of faith: but, The man that doeth them shall live in them.

Wherefore then serveth the law? It was added because of transgressions,

till the seed should come to whom the promise was made;

and it was ordained by angels in the hand of a mediator.”
‭‭Galatians‬ ‭3:12, 19‬ ‭KJV‬‬

See this part ? Ot pertains to your question Moses was the mediator but who ordained the law ? Was it angels ? and was it born of sin ?

“it was ordained by angels in the hand of a mediator.”


This angel ordained the law and Put it in Moses hand by Gods authority because they broke the covenant as soon as it was made

“Behold, I send an Angel before thee, to keep thee in the way, and to bring thee into the place which I have prepared. Beware of him, and obey his voice, provoke him not; for he will not pardon your transgressions: for my name is in him.”
‭‭Exodus‬ ‭23:20-21‬ ‭KJV‬‬

so you have Moses law governed by this spirit of judgement

“Then shall ye do unto him, as he had thought to have done unto his brother: so shalt thou put the evil away from among you. And those which remain shall hear, and fear, and shall henceforth commit no more any such evil among you. And thine eye shall not pity; but life shall go for life, eye for eye, tooth for tooth, hand for hand, foot for foot.”
‭‭Deuteronomy‬ ‭19:19-21‬ ‭


So you have this “do unto him, as he had thought to have done unto” repay the sinner evil with evil eye for an eye no mercy no pity

and you have the gospel

“Ye have heard that it hath been said, An eye for an eye, and a tooth for a tooth: But I say unto you, That ye resist not evil: but whosoever shall smite thee on thy right cheek, turn to him the other also.

But I say unto you, Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despitefully use you, and persecute you; That ye may be the children of your Father which is in heaven: for he maketh his sun to rise on the evil and on the good, and sendeth rain on the just and on the unjust.”
‭‭Matthew‬ ‭5:38-39, 44-45‬ ‭KJV‬‬

Moses received a law formdallen and condemned mankind Jesus gospel mis about giving new life its a new thing always promised the law cursed the world because all became sinners so then new thing was promised

Remember ye not the former things, neither consider the things of old. Behold, I will do a new thing; now it shall spring forth; shall ye not know it? I will even make a way in the wilderness, and rivers in the desert.”

‭‭Isaiah‬ ‭43:18-19‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“I the Lord have called thee in righteousness, and will hold thine hand, and will keep thee, and give thee for a covenant of the people, for a light of the Gentiles; To open the blind eyes, to bring out the prisoners from the prison, and them that sit in darkness out of the prison house.

I am the Lord: that is my name: and my glory will I not give to another, neither my praise to graven images.

Behold, the former things are come to pass, and new things do I declare: before they spring forth I tell you of them.

Sing unto the Lord a new song, and his praise from the end of the earth, ye that go down to the sea, and all that is therein; the isles, and the inhabitants thereof.”
‭‭Isaiah‬ ‭42:6-10‬ ‭KJV‬

that unforgiving angel isn’t the one ordaining anything now , Jesus Christ ordained and also became the mediator he is one God and the mediator are now one Moses nor an unforgiving angel have anything to do with it the New Testament is new he fulfilled the requirements in the law that he himself would come with the new things he foretold

 

[de-emerald]

Moses did not create the law God did

no it says the law was mediated but Moses , but what does this say about the law ?

“For as many as are of the works of the law are under the curse: for it is written, Cursed is every one that continueth not in all things which are written in the book of the law to do them.


But that no man is justified by the law in the sight of God, it is evident: for, The just shall live by faith.”
‭‭Galatians‬ ‭3:10-11‬ ‭KJV‬‬

interpret that one and then interpret this one

“And the law is not of faith: but, The man that doeth them shall live in them.

Wherefore then serveth the law? It was added because of transgressions,

till the seed should come to whom the promise was made;

and it was ordained by angels in the hand of a mediator.”
‭‭Galatians‬ ‭3:12, 19‬ ‭KJV‬‬

See this part ? Ot pertains to your question Moses was the mediator but who ordained the law ? Was it angels ? and was it born of sin ?

“it was ordained by angels in the hand of a mediator.”


This angel ordained the law and Put it in Moses hand by Gods authority because they broke the covenant as soon as it was made

“Behold, I send an Angel before thee, to keep thee in the way, and to bring thee into the place which I have prepared. Beware of him, and obey his voice, provoke him not; for he will not pardon your transgressions: for my name is in him.”
‭‭Exodus‬ ‭23:20-21‬ ‭KJV‬‬

so you have Moses law governed by this spirit of judgement

“Then shall ye do unto him, as he had thought to have done unto his brother: so shalt thou put the evil away from among you. And those which remain shall hear, and fear, and shall henceforth commit no more any such evil among you. And thine eye shall not pity; but life shall go for life, eye for eye, tooth for tooth, hand for hand, foot for foot.”
‭‭Deuteronomy‬ ‭19:19-21‬ ‭


So you have this “do unto him, as he had thought to have done unto” repay the sinner evil with evil eye for an eye no mercy no pity

and you have the gospel

“Ye have heard that it hath been said, An eye for an eye, and a tooth for a tooth: But I say unto you, That ye resist not evil: but whosoever shall smite thee on thy right cheek, turn to him the other also.

But I say unto you, Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despitefully use you, and persecute you; That ye may be the children of your Father which is in heaven: for he maketh his sun to rise on the evil and on the good, and sendeth rain on the just and on the unjust.”
‭‭Matthew‬ ‭5:38-39, 44-45‬ ‭KJV‬‬

Moses received a law formdallen and condemned mankind Jesus gospel mis about giving new life its a new thing always promised the law cursed the world because all became sinners so then new thing was promised

Remember ye not the former things, neither consider the things of old. Behold, I will do a new thing; now it shall spring forth; shall ye not know it? I will even make a way in the wilderness, and rivers in the desert.”

‭‭Isaiah‬ ‭43:18-19‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“I the Lord have called thee in righteousness, and will hold thine hand, and will keep thee, and give thee for a covenant of the people, for a light of the Gentiles; To open the blind eyes, to bring out the prisoners from the prison, and them that sit in darkness out of the prison house.

I am the Lord: that is my name: and my glory will I not give to another, neither my praise to graven images.

Behold, the former things are come to pass, and new things do I declare: before they spring forth I tell you of them.

Sing unto the Lord a new song, and his praise from the end of the earth, ye that go down to the sea, and all that is therein; the isles, and the inhabitants thereof.”
‭‭Isaiah‬ ‭42:6-10‬ ‭KJV‬

that unforgiving angel isn’t the one ordaining anything now , Jesus Christ ordained and also became the mediator he is one God and the mediator are now one Moses nor an unforgiving angel have anything to do with it the New Testament is new he fulfilled the requirements in the law that he himself would come with the new things he foretold

Moses did not create the law God did in the begining was the word and the word was with God.

 

[Dino246]

Moses did not create the law God did
Moses did not create the law God did in the begining was the word and the word was with God.

Nobody is arguing that Moses "created" the law. The law was spoken through Moses. Most people don't have a problem with this concept, and freely use "the law of Moses" without any confusion.