Do catholics worship God or the pope?

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Jerry I apologize if you think I said you are SDA. I think I said, you must have gotten your claims from SDA writings.
That's okay. I have SDA friends who get angry with me when I tell them they are in the cult of Ellen G. White.

My claims come from reading the Bible, RCC literature, history of the RCC, and other source materials. Either way, all I've stated is in material readily available to inquiring minds. All one has to do is desire knowing the truth. If you believe a lie, then you will live life believing a lie.
 
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But in Catholic theology the word cult is used to describe a particular form of worship. If a Catholic wishes to marry a non-Christian, the dispensation that is applied for is called “disparity of cult,” meaning that they have different methods of worship.
When I use the word "cult", I am using it as it has been defined by Walter Martin and another fellow whose name escapes me at the present.
 

TheLearner

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The RCC teaches lots of truth, and they did help preserve the ancient writings. But by definition, they are a cult. Fealty to the pope or your life was in jeopardy.

After the RCC was established by Constantine it became a power hungry political whore, among other things. Unbiblicsl doctrines, indulgences, murdered millions for questioning their doctrines and copying scripture for personal edification.
The "RCC was established by Constantine" is poor history based on us protestant propaganda. He arranged for councils among those who disagree, welcomed the participants and dismissed himself letting them in council work things out.
He latter came back to here the results. He never defined doctrine, nor practices.
 

TheLearner

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Do you read what you write? Do you actually believe a cult like the RCC is going to admit that they are a cult and that their leader is in fact the Trinity on earth?

Call no one Father for your Father is in heaven.

Jesusis our mediator and our High Priest.

The Holy Spirit is our helper and comforter.

Read your Bible and test the Spirit. Or don't. But you'll not know false teachers if you don't.
I googled your claims, not official catholic sources makes those claims. Nor does reliable historians. Nor well known Theologians.
 
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The "RCC was established by Constantine" is poor history based on us protestant propaganda. He arranged for councils among those who disagree, welcomed the participants and dismissed himself letting them in council work things out.
He latter came back to here the results. He never defined doctrine, nor practices.
My point is, it was by edict of Constantine that the first council took place. To what extent Constantine pressed the council on particular doctrine is not entirely known. Suffice it to say that those that were in leadership roles in overseeing the work of the council were hand-picked by Constantine.
 
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I googled your claims, not official catholic sources makes those claims. Nor does reliable historians. Nor well known Theologians.
Oh, well, Google, I see. I may now have to scrap all of my research and go directly to the Vatican with my queries. They'll be certain to give me nothing but absolute truths on their history.
 

TheLearner

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I already posted pontiff.

Does Supreme Court mean the judges are Gods?

The phrase Holy Father is not there, but what is

holy (adj.)
Old English halig "holy, consecrated, sacred; godly; ecclesiastical," from Proto-Germanic *hailaga- (source also of Old Norse heilagr, Danish hellig, Old Frisian helich "holy," Old Saxon helag, Middle Dutch helich, Old High German heilag, German heilig, Gothic hailags "holy"), from PIE *kailo- "whole, uninjured" (see health). Adopted at conversion for Latin sanctus.
Primary (pre-Christian) meaning is not possible to determine, but probably it was "that must be preserved whole or intact, that cannot be transgressed or violated," and connected with Old English hal (see health) and Old High German heil "health, happiness, good luck" (source of the German salutation Heil). Holy water was in Old English.
Holy has been used as an intensifying word from 1837; in expletives since 1880s (such as holy smoke, 1883, holy mackerel, 1876, holy cow, 1914, holy moly etc.), most of them euphemisms for holy Christ or holy Moses. Holy Ghost was in Old English (in Middle English often written as one word). Holy League is used of various European alliances; the Holy Alliance was that formed personally by the sovereigns of Russia, Austria, and Prussia in 1815; it ended in 1830.
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father (v.)c. 1400, from father (n.). Related: Fathered; fathering.
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father (n.)
Old English fæder "he who begets a child, nearest male ancestor;" also "any lineal male ancestor; the Supreme Being," and by late Old English, "one who exercises parental care over another," from Proto-Germanic *fader (source also of Old Saxon fadar, Old Frisian feder, Dutch vader, Old Norse faðir, Old High German fatar, German vater; in Gothic usually expressed by atta), from PIE *pəter- "father" (source also of Sanskrit pitar-, Greek pater, Latin pater, Old Persian pita, Old Irish athir "father"), presumably from baby-speak sound "pa." The ending formerly was regarded as an agent-noun affix.
My heart leaps up when I behold​
A rainbow in the sky:​
So was it when my life began;​
So is it now I am a man;​
So be it when I shall grow old,​
Or let me die!​
The Child is father of the Man;​
I could wish my days to be​
Bound each to each by natural piety.​
[Wordsworth, 1802]​
The classic example of Grimm's Law, where PIE "p-" becomes Germanic "f-." Spelling with -th- (15c.) reflects widespread phonetic shift in Middle English that turned -der to -ther in many words, perhaps reinforced in this case by Old Norse forms; spelling caught up to pronunciation in 1500s (compare mother (n.), weather (n.), hither, gather). As a title of various Church dignitaries from c. 1300; meaning "creator, inventor, author" is from mid-14c.; that of "anything that gives rise to something else" is from late 14c. As a respectful title for an older man, recorded from 1550s. Father-figure is from 1954. Fathers "leading men, elders" is from 1580s.


pontifex maximus is not there
https://www.etymonline.com/search?q=pontifex+maximus

vicarius comes back as vicar which I already posted
https://www.etymonline.com/search?q=vicarius

papas comes back as
papa (n.)
"father," 1680s, from French papa, from Latin papa, originally a reduplicated child's word, similar to Greek pappa (vocative) "o father," pappas "father," pappos "grandfather." The native word is daddy; according to OED the first use of papa was in courtly speech, as a continental affectation, and it was not used by common folk until late 18c.
https://www.etymonline.com/search?q=pappas
 

TheLearner

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The pope is called Holy Father.


I'm not surprised you are in the dark about the RCC titles for the pope and their parallels to the Trinity. Most RCC members have a nicely padded gigantic Bible in their homes that they never open, but they'll read endless RCC bulletins and RCC catechism.

Not only does the RCC claim that the pope is infallible, here are a few of the titles given to the pope by the RCC that make him the trinity on earth: Holy Father, Bishop of Rome, Vicar of Jesus Christ, Supreme Pontiff of the Universal Church.

The office of pope is called the papacy, which is from the Latin papa, and from the Greek pappas, all of which means Father. The pope is called Holy Father. We have one Holy Father in heaven.

Another title for the bishop of Rome (pope) is supreme pontiff, in Latin it's pontifex maximus, which means High Priest. Jesus the Son is our one true High Priest in heaven with the Father.

Another title for the pope is Vicar of Jesus Christ. Vicar is from the Latin vicarius, which actually means in place of, or substitute. Jesus Christ substituted the Holy Spirit for himself after he ascended to the Father. Jesus sent in his place the Holy Spirit to aid and comfort the church believers. The Holy Spirit is our Vicar of Jesus Christ.

So you see, the RCC hold its leader out as the trinitarian replacement on earth for the Father Son and Holy Spirit.

You claim you are a RCC member; go and test the spirit of the RCC as you are instructed by Apostle John. 1 John 4:1-21. See just how much error you will find.

The word of God is clear: we have one mediator, the Lord Jesus Christ, to whom we speak directly and personally, in a one on one conversation, in our own personal private chamber.

The problem with most in the rcc is their super-dependence on their parish priest to tell them all they need to know.
i know Catholics who read their bible, the family bible like in protestant homes are for show.
 

TheLearner

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I can't believe the Peter in Rome, Paul is the true leader is still going on in this thread lol.

Catholics view it like this;
Peter was given the keys to the Kingdom by Jesus upon the cross

Paul is the great defender of the faith and sorted out a lot of apostasy as the church was in its infancy.

The Papacy traces its lineage back to Peter because he came before Paul. But Paul is an extremely important figure in the RCC too.
Revelation 1:18
I am the one who lives. I was dead, but look, I am alive forever and ever! And I hold the keys of death and Hades.
 

TheLearner

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My point is, it was by edict of Constantine that the first council took place. To what extent Constantine pressed the council on particular doctrine is not entirely known. Suffice it to say that those that were in leadership roles in overseeing the work of the council were hand-picked by Constantine.
The Church Fathers contains that history. They present the picture of him greeting them and dismissing himself.
 
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i know Catholics who read their bible, the family bible like in protestant homes are for show.
Not my Bible's. All of them look like my old college text books with highlighted portions and pen written notes etc. Very ordered note kerping, but worn out torn and a bit messy looking.
 

TheLearner

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Mystical church? The church - the ekklesia - is a living breathing body of billions of believers in Jesus Christ (both with the Lord in heaven and here on earth).
I cor 12
The Body of Christ
12 A person has only one body, but it has many parts. Yes, there are many parts, but all those parts are still just one body. Christ is like that too. 13 Some of us are Jews and some of us are not; some of us are slaves and some of us are free. But we were all baptized to become one body through one Spirit. And we were all given[a] the one Spirit.

14 And a person’s body has more than one part. It has many parts. 15 The foot might say, “I am not a hand, so I don’t belong to the body.” But saying this would not stop the foot from being a part of the body. 16 The ear might say, “I am not an eye, so I don’t belong to the body.” But saying this would not make the ear stop being a part of the body. 17 If the whole body were an eye, it would not be able to hear. If the whole body were an ear, it would not be able to smell anything. 18-19 If each part of the body were the same part, there would be no body. But as it is, God put the parts in the body as he wanted them. He made a place for each one. 20 So there are many parts, but only one body.

21 The eye cannot say to the hand, “I don’t need you!” And the head cannot say to the foot, “I don’t need you!” 22 No, those parts of the body that seem to be weaker are actually very important. 23 And the parts that we think are not worth very much are the parts we give the most care to. And we give special care to the parts of the body that we don’t want to show. 24 The more beautiful parts don’t need this special care. But God put the body together and gave more honor to the parts that need it. 25 God did this so that our body would not be divided. God wanted the different parts to care the same for each other. 26 If one part of the body suffers, then all the other parts suffer with it. Or if one part is honored, then all the other parts share its honor.

27 All of you together are the body of Christ. Each one of you is a part of that body. 28 And in the church God has given a place first to apostles, second to prophets, and third to teachers. Then God has given a place to those who do miracles, those who have gifts of healing, those who can help others, those who are able to lead, and those who can speak in different kinds of languages. 29 Not all are apostles. Not all are prophets. Not all are teachers. Not all do miracles. 30 Not all have gifts of healing. Not all speak in different kinds of languages. Not all interpret those languages. 31 Continue to give your attention to the spiritual gifts you consider to be the greatest. But now I want to point out a way of life that is even greater.


5 Bible results for “"body of Christ"” from
Easy-to-Read Version.
Results 1-5.
  1. Romans 7:4
    In the same way, my brothers and sisters, your old selves died and you became free from the law through the body of Christ. Now you belong to someone else. You belong to the one who was raised from death. We belong to Christ so that we can be used in service to God.
    In Context | Full Chapter | Other Translations
  2. 1 Corinthians 10:16
    The cup of blessing that we give thanks for is a sharing in the blood sacrifice of Christ, isn’t it? And the bread that we break is a sharing in the body of Christ, isn’t it?
    In Context | Full Chapter | Other Translations
  3. 1 Corinthians 12:12
    The Body of Christ
    A person has only one body, but it has many parts. Yes, there are many parts, but all those parts are still just one body. Christ is like that too.
    In Context | Full Chapter | Other Translations
  4. 1 Corinthians 12:27
    All of you together are the body of Christ. Each one of you is a part of that body.
    In Context | Full Chapter | Other Translations
  5. Ephesians 4:12
    Christ gave these gifts to prepare God’s holy people for the work of serving, to make the body of Christ stronger.
    In Context | Full Chapter | Other Translations
 

TheLearner

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Not my Bible's. All of them look like my old college text books with highlighted portions and pen written notes etc. Very ordered note kerping, but worn out torn and a bit messy looking.
I do not own a family bible neither. But, when I see a family bible on a table I ask about it. It is generally used to put keepsakes like pictures, when someone died, newspaper clippings in it.
 
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What site do you find those on? or what search terms do you use for youtube? I would enjoy watching them sometime.
Yes, youtube has a lot of Walter on the Bible Answer Man radio show, John Ankerberg Show, q & a, and some others.
 

Mark47Oz

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Revelation 1:18
I am the one who lives. I was dead, but look, I am alive forever and ever! And I hold the keys of death and Hades.
Lol, I didn't mean literally give him the keys. Peter isn't Jesus, everyone knows that. I should have said keys to kingdom of heaven here on earth IE the new faith. I do apologize.

You are quite correct, there is only one saviour and only his sacrifice gets us into heaven.