The Atonement: What did it REALLY Accomplish?
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The born again old testament saints having obtained a good report through faith (spiritual faith, being a "fruit of the Holy Spirit") were not made perfect until the coming promise of the crucifiction of Jesus Christ.
In this day and time, as well as the old testament saints, who are born again with the indwelling of the Holy Spirit, are said to have the Spirit upon them, guiding them in the ways that God directs. Luke 2:9.
The Holy Spirit, which is one function of the Godhead as the quickening Spirit, also in itself, has two other functions; The revelator, and the comforter, which was given on the day of pentecost.
In this day and time, as well as the old testament saints, who are born again with the indwelling of the Holy Spirit, are said to have the Spirit upon them, guiding them in the ways that God directs. Luke 2:9.
The Holy Spirit, which is one function of the Godhead as the quickening Spirit, also in itself, has two other functions; The revelator, and the comforter, which was given on the day of pentecost.
God, by his foreknowledge, saw that none of mankind would seek him. Psalms 14:2-3. Because of this fact God choose a large portion of those that would not seek him to be adopted as his children by sending his Son to die to pay for their sins.
God judges his adopted children, whom he loves, by his chastening, while they sojourn here on earth, and they will not be judged at the last day. God does not judge those that are not his adopted children as they live their lives here on earth, Psalms 73. (they are not "Plagued" [divinely punished] like other men, but judges them at the last day.
God judges his adopted children, whom he loves, by his chastening, while they sojourn here on earth, and they will not be judged at the last day. God does not judge those that are not his adopted children as they live their lives here on earth, Psalms 73. (they are not "Plagued" [divinely punished] like other men, but judges them at the last day.
nope ... not for nothing. In all actuality, it is the post to which I replied which was rendered "all that for nothing".
You have been instructed that the words "for us" do not belong in the text and that knowledge is now your responsibility.
that you have no problem adding words to Scripture, manipulating Scripture to support your vain imaginations rather than reading what the Author of Scripture intended? ... that's on you.
Yes it does violate the text ... that you do not believe "it did no violence to the text"? oh well, par for the course where you're concerned.
You have been instructed that the words "for us" do not belong in the text and that knowledge is now your responsibility.
that you have no problem adding words to Scripture, manipulating Scripture to support your vain imaginations rather than reading what the Author of Scripture intended? ... that's on you.
Yes it does violate the text ... that you do not believe "it did no violence to the text"? oh well, par for the course where you're concerned.
We've already gone through this, ForestGreenCook. I disagree with your dogma.
I explained the difference between OC believers and NC believers ...
Here
Here
at this point in time, I choose not to go through it with you again ... read the Scripture provided to you at the above links and pray for understanding.
I explained the difference between OC believers and NC believers ...
Here
Here
at this point in time, I choose not to go through it with you again ... read the Scripture provided to you at the above links and pray for understanding.
Romans 5:10 For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life.
The words "we were reconciled" = #2644 "Katallasso" from 2596 and 236 ... again, the words "we were" have been added to the text by translators.
Romans 5:11 And not only so, but we also joy in God through our Lord Jesus Christ, by whom we have now received the atonement.
The word "now" appears in the text. It was not added by translators. Is "now" past tense?
The word "received" in Rom 5:11 is translated from the Greek word lambanó.
You and @brightfame52 don't like the usage of the word lambánō in Rom 5:11? Take it up with God ... it's His Word. oh yeah, since you two don't have a problem with translators (mankind) adding to Scripture ... does it bother you if someone changes Scripture? ... or just ignores words placed in Scripture by God because, well, gosh ... that doesn't fit with your preconceived notions?
The words "we were reconciled" = #2644 "Katallasso" from 2596 and 236 ... again, the words "we were" have been added to the text by translators.
Romans 5:11 And not only so, but we also joy in God through our Lord Jesus Christ, by whom we have now received the atonement.
The word "now" appears in the text. It was not added by translators. Is "now" past tense?
The word "received" in Rom 5:11 is translated from the Greek word lambanó.
2983 lambánō (from the primitive root, lab-, meaning "actively lay hold of to take or receive," see NAS dictionary) – properly, to lay hold by aggressively (actively) accepting what is available (offered). 2983/lambánō ("accept with initiative") emphasizes the volition (assertiveness) of the receiver.
You and @brightfame52 don't like the usage of the word lambánō in Rom 5:11? Take it up with God ... it's His Word. oh yeah, since you two don't have a problem with translators (mankind) adding to Scripture ... does it bother you if someone changes Scripture? ... or just ignores words placed in Scripture by God because, well, gosh ... that doesn't fit with your preconceived notions?
1 John 2:2 And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world.
So God did not judge Sodom and Gomorrha when He rained fire and brimstone down?
or Egypt when He brought the children of Israel out of bondage? the plagues were not God's judgment against the wickedness and idolatry of Egypt?
And how about old Ahab? oh yeah, and his wife Jezebel?
smh ...
So God did not judge Sodom and Gomorrha when He rained fire and brimstone down?
or Egypt when He brought the children of Israel out of bondage? the plagues were not God's judgment against the wickedness and idolatry of Egypt?
And how about old Ahab? oh yeah, and his wife Jezebel?
smh ...
Redemption is an act of God !
A fellow said once to me, that yes Jesus Christ has obtained Eternal Redemption for them, but that does not mean those who He died for receive it. How far from the Truth was that statement. Redemption requires action to be done by the one doing the redeeming or He has not accomplished redemption, He has not accomplished anything if those He died to redeem are not actually redeemed.
Lets look again at Heb 9:12
12Neither by the blood of goats and calves, but by his own blood he entered in once into the holy place, having obtained eternal redemption for us.
The word redemption here is the greek word lytrōsis:
ransoming, redemption
2) deliverance, esp. from the penalty of sin
Notice that one of the definitions is deliverance from the penalty of sin.
The Eternal Redemption of Heb 9:12, for the US the writer Identifies himself with, as to whom Christ obtained Eternal Redemption, He has obtained for them Eternal Deliverance from the penalty of what their sins deserve.
Paul says like this in Eph 1:7
7In whom we have redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of sins, according to the riches of his grace;
All whom Christ died for, have Eternal Forgiveness, even when they are by nature as others children of wrath ! Thats because this forgiveness is according to the riches of His Grace !
So one of the many acts that Christ obtained for them He died for is they all are Eternally delivered from the penalty of their sins, all of them, according to the Riches of His Grace, and this before they have any knowledge of it. 63
A fellow said once to me, that yes Jesus Christ has obtained Eternal Redemption for them, but that does not mean those who He died for receive it. How far from the Truth was that statement. Redemption requires action to be done by the one doing the redeeming or He has not accomplished redemption, He has not accomplished anything if those He died to redeem are not actually redeemed.
Lets look again at Heb 9:12
12Neither by the blood of goats and calves, but by his own blood he entered in once into the holy place, having obtained eternal redemption for us.
The word redemption here is the greek word lytrōsis:
ransoming, redemption
2) deliverance, esp. from the penalty of sin
Notice that one of the definitions is deliverance from the penalty of sin.
The Eternal Redemption of Heb 9:12, for the US the writer Identifies himself with, as to whom Christ obtained Eternal Redemption, He has obtained for them Eternal Deliverance from the penalty of what their sins deserve.
Paul says like this in Eph 1:7
7In whom we have redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of sins, according to the riches of his grace;
All whom Christ died for, have Eternal Forgiveness, even when they are by nature as others children of wrath ! Thats because this forgiveness is according to the riches of His Grace !
So one of the many acts that Christ obtained for them He died for is they all are Eternally delivered from the penalty of their sins, all of them, according to the Riches of His Grace, and this before they have any knowledge of it. 63
According to Scripture, I am a new creation in Christ Jesus (2 Cor 5:17).
yep.
nope ... not the same. I leave up to God to reveal your error to you.
yep.
nope ... not the same. I leave up to God to reveal your error to you.
You can not ignore some scriptures in order to hold on to a false doctrine. Psalms 73 confirms that the wicked are not divinely punished as other men.
God raised Pharaoh up for the purpose of showing his power in freeing his people. God does not judge the wicked, but he does use them to accomplish his purposes.
The "world" in 1 John 2:2 is the "world of believers".
God raised Pharaoh up for the purpose of showing his power in freeing his people. God does not judge the wicked, but he does use them to accomplish his purposes.
The "world" in 1 John 2:2 is the "world of believers".