Where does the idea of a head pastor come from?

[ResidentAlien]

But pastors/ministers are Biblical and is how Paul and the other NT writers portray church government.

Fair enough. What scriptures, specifically, are you talking about?

 

[ResidentAlien]

Would an elder, as mentioned in Acts 14, be considered a pastor?

I don't thinks so, here's why. It doesn't say: "And when they had appointed [an elder] for them in every church. . ."; but "And when they had appointed elders for them in every church. . ." It's talking about appointing several elders in each church.

The clincher is James 5:14: "Is anyone among you sick? Let him call for the elders of the church, and let them pray over him, anointing him with oil in the name of the Lord." It says to call the elders of the church, not elder. It wouldn't make much sense to call every elder (singular) or so-called pastor from all the surrounding churches to pray for people every time someone got sick, which is how we'd have to interpret this if elder referred to the pastor of a local church. They'd spend all their time traveling; and besides, no practice like this is ever recorded in the New Testament or in church history that I know of. It's talking about the elders (plural) at one congregation.

 

[brighthouse98]

ResidentAlien You are correct bro! Should be called Shepherd of the flock to me bro ( John 21:16) There is only one head which is Jesus! ( 1 Cor 2:10, 1 Cor 11:3, Eph 1:22,and Eph 5:23

 

[Edify]

By the second century, there are references to churches having one leader over the elders called a 'bishop'. The letters attributed to Ignatius use that language. Clement uses 'bishop' to refer to elders like the Bible does. But the one bishop over the elders seems pretty widespread. This was not one 'senior pastor' per congregation necessarily. The bishop is on the city level. In the second century, some of them could have met in one place. The Bible does not teach the system of one bishop over the elders of a city. It is based on church tradition.

The word "bishop" was never used in early writings of the church till after the formation of the RCC.
Clement's "translation" may have used the word, but it's not a proper translation at all.
The RCC, the church of England, and others have used this word to take authority that didn't belong to them.
The KJV "uses" bishop, but again, mistranslated. It should have been either 'elder' or 'overseer', with no claims to authority at all.
Take no offence, presidente, I'm not against you or your post, I just hate the word "bishop" used in the church because it's caused all kinds of authority perversion in the church for centuries.

 

[Nehemiah6]

I've looked and looked in the New Testament but can't find a justification for a "head pastor" of a church in a position of preeminence over everyone else. Where did this idea come from?

Soon after the apostles the idea of a bishop over a church or churches came into existence. That led to a hierarchy of clergy, which then led to a head pastor vs other pastor/elder/bishops. The idea of clergy vs laity entered into the churches quite early.

 

[AandW]

From the Tanakh:

16 But I did not hasten since I was a shepherd after You, and I did not desire the woeful day, You know it. What came out of my lips was before Your face.
טזוַֽאֲנִ֞י לֹֽא־אַ֣צְתִּי | מֵֽרֹעֶ֣ה אַֽחֲרֶ֗יךָ וְי֥וֹם אָנ֛וּשׁ לֹ֥א הִתְאַוֵּ֖יתִי אַתָּ֣ה יָדָ֑עְתָּ מוֹצָ֣א שְׂפָתַ֔י נֹ֥כַח פָּנֶ֖יךָ הָיָֽה:

KJV:

Jeremiah 17:16 As for me, I have not hastened from being a pastor to follow thee: neither have I desired the woeful day; thou knowest: that which came out of my lips was right before thee.


Jeremiah is acknowledging that he was a Shepherd/Pastor following the example of Yahweh. This is a good example because we know Jeremiah was a Prophet. But Jeremiah thought of himself not as a Prophet, but as a Shepherd/Pastor.

 

[Chester]

Fair enough. What scriptures, specifically, are you talking about?

For this cause left I thee in Crete, that thou shouldest set in order the things that are wanting, and ordain elders in every city, as I had appointed thee: Titus 1:5

And when they had ordained them elders in every church, and had prayed with fasting, they commended them to the LORD, on whom they believed. Acts 14:23

Paul and Timotheus, the servants of Jesus Christ, to all the saints in Christ Jesus which are at Philippi, with the bishops and deacons
Philippians 1:1

I do not have time to do the full Biblical proof/analysis here, but my understanding of Scripture is that as portrayed in Acts there were two offices in the church: (1) the role of a pastor/shepherd/elder/minister/bishop and (2) the role of a deacon. This is seen in the books of Timothy and Titus. There are only instructions giving for the choosing of two offices. There is no separate distinction made for an "elder".

The terms "elder," "bishop," and "pastor" are all used interchangeably to speak of one office. This office focuses on the spiritual needs of the church. The role of the deacon's office is primarily the physical needs of the church.

There are, of course, many other interpretations of church authority structure different than my understanding.

 

[ResidentAlien]

Church leadership and government is a difficult thorny issue. As seen in the conversation, we tend to react to any "head pastor" who wields power or influence selfishly. And rightly so - Christ, not man, is the head of the church.

But pastors/ministers are Biblical and is how Paul and the other NT writers portray church government. Those who reject pastoral leadership often go one of two ways:
(1) A group of "elders" (various titles are used) who form a board who govern the church. They then fire/hire the pastor at will. The downfall of this is that often these elders hold the sway of the church by seniority, monetary success, influence, etc.
(2) Some try to govern the church "by the people." This is a democracy - rule by the people. But then the majority rule the church -- and decisions made by such a "majority" may or may not be Biblical.

I think the answer is to have a plural ministry who together as a team lead the church. On teams such as this, each one on the team will have differing gifts - one may have the gift of "administration" and so he naturally calls meetings, organizes, etc. Another may have the gift of preaching and does most of the Sunday sermons. Another may be an exhorter who does well with relationships. In such a system of leadership the one with the gift of "administration" often becomes the "leader" by default" - but all of the team of pastors should have equal authority and influence and each has an equal "vote".

Thanks for posting those scriptures.

I agree there are pastors (i.e., shepherds, for that is the meaning of the Greek: poimenas—a shepherd). But where does it say anything about a "lead" shepherd or even one shepherd who's singled out among the others? 1 Peter 5:1-4 says:

"So I exhort the elders among you, as a fellow elder and a witness of the sufferings of Christ, as well as a partaker in the glory that is going to be revealed: shepherd the flock of God that is among you, exercising oversight, not under compulsion, but willingly, as God would have you; not for shameful gain, but eagerly; not domineering over those in your charge, but being examples to the flock. And when the chief Shepherd appears, you will receive the unfading crown of glory."

Here the elders are called shepherds. No mention of a lead shepherd; Jesus is called the Chief Shepherd.

I also wonder where the idea of "governors" comes from? Governors are usually those who make rules and enforce them. Peter tells the elders to not be domineering but to be examples. He also tells them to exercise oversight. To me oversight seems quite different than governing. An overseer watches over the flock to make sure they aren't ravaged by wolves or harmed in some manner; ensures they have good pasture; or steers them in the right direction (by example). For the life of me I can't figure out where we got the idea from scripture that the responsibility of the elders is to hire or fire a pastor, organize or govern.

 

[ResidentAlien]

This is a good example because we know Jeremiah was a Prophet. But Jeremiah thought of himself not as a Prophet, but as a Shepherd/Pastor.

I agree, but he was only one among many prophets. He never says, heh, I'm the lead prophet (or shepherd).

 

[tourist]

Jeremiah is acknowledging that he was a Shepherd/Pastor following the example of Yahweh. This is a good example because we know Jeremiah was a Prophet. But Jeremiah thought of himself not as a Prophet, but as a Shepherd/Pastor.

I was led to believe that Jeremiah was a bullfrog.

 

[Chester]

Thanks for posting those scriptures.

I agree there are pastors (i.e., shepherds, for that is the meaning of the Greek: poimenas—a shepherd). But where does it say anything about a "lead" shepherd or even one shepherd who's singled out among the others? 1 Peter 5:1-4 says:

"So I exhort the elders among you, as a fellow elder and a witness of the sufferings of Christ, as well as a partaker in the glory that is going to be revealed: shepherd the flock of God that is among you, exercising oversight, not under compulsion, but willingly, as God would have you; not for shameful gain, but eagerly; not domineering over those in your charge, but being examples to the flock. And when the chief Shepherd appears, you will receive the unfading crown of glory."

Here the elders are called shepherds. No mention of a lead shepherd; Jesus is called the Chief Shepherd.

I would basically agree with you that there is really no mention of any "lead" or "head" pastor as such.

But it is obvious that some of the early church leaders had more authority/weight than others. That is, Peter, James, and John were the leaders of the church in Jerusalem.

And when James, Cephas, and John, who seemed to be pillars, perceived the grace that was given unto me, they gave to me and Barnabas the right hands of fellowship; that we should go unto the heathen, and they unto the circumcision. (Gal. 2:9)

 

[Chester]

I also wonder where the idea of "governors" comes from? Governors are usually those who make rules and enforce them. Peter tells the elders to not be domineering but to be examples. He also tells them to exercise oversight. To me oversight seems quite different than governing. An overseer watches over the flock to make sure they aren't ravaged by wolves or harmed in some manner; ensures they have good pasture; or steers them in the right direction (by example). For the life of me I can't figure out where we got the idea from scripture that the responsibility of the elders is to hire or fire a pastor, organize or govern.

Perspective and background is always different for different people. In the context of church I like the idea of "governing" better than "oversight." Just like the government takes care of its people (Ha! Hmmm?) so a church leader cares for his church people. "Oversight" to me stinks of someone on top looking down their nose at me!

 

[AandW]

I was led to believe that Jeremiah was a bullfrog.

...and a good friend of mine!

 

[CS1]

I was led to believe that Jeremiah was a bullfrog.

he was a good friend of mine :0

 

[PaulChristensen]

A particular pastor or elder may have gifts and abilities that may set him head and shoulders above others, and it is not wrong to recognize him as such. But his gifting does not give him overall authority over the others. Regards of his maturity, experience and gifting, he still has only one vote on the board of elders.

Paul knew this, and he told the Corinthians to follow him as he follows Christ. Also, he told them that others may not recognize him as an apostle, but he is an apostle to them because he was the one who brought them to Christ and he was their spiritual father.

I listened to my old pastor during the three years, as a 21-24 year old under his ministry, because he spent time in prayer for me, and was faithful to God's Word in the things he taught me. It is right for us to have mentors in our lives, who stand in the gap with God for us, and who are not afraid to correct us when we need it. My old pastor had authority over me, not because he demanded it, but his prayers and faithfulness to Christ gave him the right as long as I was a member of his church.

 

[presidente]

The word "bishop" was never used in early writings of the church till after the formation of the RCC.
Clement's "translation" may have used the word, but it's not a proper translation at all.
The RCC, the church of England, and others have used this word to take authority that didn't belong to them.

The word 'bishop' comes from 'episkopos' in Greek. The word has historically been translated 'bishop' into English. The word shows up in the New Testament and writings of the early church.

The KJV "uses" bishop, but again, mistranslated. It should have been either 'elder' or 'overseer', with no claims to authority at all.

In the New Testament 'presbuteros' translates as 'elder' and 'episkopos' translates as 'bishop' or 'overseer.'

 

[Dino246]

The word 'bishop' comes from 'episkopos' in Greek. The word has historically been translated 'bishop' into English. The word shows up in the New Testament and writings of the early church.
In the New Testament 'presbuteros' translates as 'elder' and 'episkopos' translates as 'bishop' or 'overseer.'

While "bishop" may have been used in English where "episkopos" is in Greek, "overseer" is the much closer translation. "Epi" = "over" and "skopos" = "see-er". The latter is the same word from which we get "scope" as in microscope, telescope, oscilloscope, etc. "Epi" comes straight through in words like "epicentre", the location on the land surface directly over the location of an earthquake.

 

[Unearthed]

I've looked and looked in the New Testament but can't find a justification for a "head pastor" of a church in a position of preeminence over everyone else. Where did this idea come from?

I used to go to a "church" with a lead pastor.
Other people in the 'in-crowd' would also preach.

It was essentially a way for the pastor to reduce his workload by getting other people to do the work he should have been doing.

 

[Edify]

I used to go to a "church" with a lead pastor.
Other people in the 'in-crowd' would also preach.

It was essentially a way for the pastor to reduce his workload by getting other people to do the work he should have been doing.

So true.

 

[Dino246]

I used to go to a "church" with a lead pastor.
Other people in the 'in-crowd' would also preach.

It was essentially a way for the pastor to reduce his workload by getting other people to do the work he should have been doing.

"The work he should have been doing"... like equipping the saints for ministry? Where in Scripture is it even remotely suggested that one person should be doing all the work?