transfiguration lesson

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randyk

Well-known member
Jan 14, 2021
902
268
63
Pacific NW USA
#21
I know a person who was sleeping at a camp site wheile he was seen bup a few dozen people many miles away going up a tril to the summit of a mountian. With only one way up some tried to find him for he was speaking of the Holy Spirit and dthe Only Son. They arrived to the top of the mount only to come to the edge of the only other way down, a drop of a thousand plus feet.

The reason I believe this is because among the folks searching for him was a well known aquaintance to whom he had been sharing the gospel for months.

So ther person was in two places at one time..............if this happens, and it did, do yo not think our Savior will dow whatever He desires? I do.
No, I see no spiritual lesson in this. What tends to glorify an individual other than Jesus is usually false. I can't say, but I've not experienced anything like this myself. I used to work around some folks with odd interests--one into astral projection. That stuff is for the birds.

I went up a mountain myself. I was kind of stupid--went up in my tennis shoes, and didn't look back down the mountain--I'm afraid of heights. When we got up to the top, around 6000 feet, there seemed no way down but straight down. And the way back looked too steep too, plus I had to look down. That's when I wished it was just a dream and I was still asleep in my sleeping bag back at camp! ;)
 

ewq1938

Well-known member
Oct 18, 2018
5,020
1,268
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#22
For that matter, what about the cases of resurrection experienced in the ministry of Elijah, Elisha, and Jesus? They were resurrected in their old bodies! They were not glorified so that they could be resurrected!
Elijah didn't die.


1Co 15:20 But now is Christ risen from the dead, and become the firstfruits of them that slept.
1Co 15:21 For since by man came death, by man came also the resurrection of the dead.
1Co 15:22 For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive.
1Co 15:23 But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ's at his coming.

I believe this also proves that being a firstfruit that has been resurrected means they are alive as in immortal so the very first firstfruit would also have been resurrected as immortal or "glorified".

Again, we know the dead in Christ are resurrected as immortals, so obviously Christ would also have been resurrected as immortal. He simply retained his mortal; wounds/scars as proof of who he was and that he did actually resurrect from the dead. He was not resurrected back to mortal life.
 

JaumeJ

Senior Member
Jul 2, 2011
21,429
6,707
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#23
No, I see no spiritual lesson in this. What tends to glorify an individual other than Jesus is usually false. I can't say, but I've not experienced anything like this myself. I used to work around some folks with odd interests--one into astral projection. That stuff is for the birds.

I went up a mountain myself. I was kind of stupid--went up in my tennis shoes, and didn't look back down the mountain--I'm afraid of heights. When we got up to the top, around 6000 feet, there seemed no way down but straight down. And the way back looked too steep too, plus I had to look down. That's when I wished it was just a dream and I was still asleep in my sleeping bag back at camp! ;)
The person sleeping many miles away from this occurance, did not control this event, no, as he slept he experienced the warmth, love and presence of the Holy Spirit all the night through, and he had no idea what was going on on the distant mountain.

The person or going up th emountain gave glory to God in all three persons. No mention of the name of the person going up, however the one person to whom the one sleeping had been witnessing to for months previous was there with the others, and he recognized the voice of the man sharing the Gospel.

This kperson who recognized tshe voice was later reunited with his separated wife, and she too was filled with the Holy Spirit with tthe same person who slept in the camp away. This couple went on to establish a radio station which transmitted to the Carribean the Gospel of Jesus Yeshua..

No asstral projection just the Word.
 

randyk

Well-known member
Jan 14, 2021
902
268
63
Pacific NW USA
#24
Elijah didn't die.
Sure he did. You think he's breathing air in the upper atmosphere? I expect that he suffered a lighter form of death than most of us, but I'm sure his physical body could not handle being without food for so many years! ;)

1Co 15:20 But now is Christ risen from the dead, and become the firstfruits of them that slept.
1Co 15:21 For since by man came death, by man came also the resurrection of the dead.
1Co 15:22 For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive.
1Co 15:23 But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ's at his coming.

I believe this also proves that being a firstfruit that has been resurrected means they are alive as in immortal so the very first firstfruit would also have been resurrected as immortal or "glorified".
The idea has to do with resurrection--not glorification. They are connected, but you're reading "glorification" into "resurrection" here, confusing the issues.

And you sidestepped my question--what about Sampson? What about the ability of Philip to be translated after witnessing to the Ethiopian eunuch. Your argument seemed to rest on the evidence that because Jesus could "walk through walls," he had to have been glorified.

If a physical body can do supernatural things, it must already be glorified, you say. But Philip was not glorified. Sampson was not glorified. And yet these men could do supernatural things with their physical bodies.

And so your argument doesn't hold up. Just because Jesus walked through walls does not say he had yet been glorified. He still had scars inflicted upon his old body!!

Again, we know the dead in Christ are resurrected as immortals...
Let me stop you right there, before you lay this down as a fact. Christians have been raised from the dead in their old bodies. There is no necessity that resurrection be associated with glorification.

However, the 2nd Coming is a different matter. In this case, resurrection leads instantly to glorification. The old bodies have obviously been dissolved, since the dead in Christ have been dead, in some cases, for centuries! There are no bodies to resuscitate!

...so obviously Christ would also have been resurrected as immortal. He simply retained his mortal; wounds/scars as proof of who he was and that he did actually resurrect from the dead. He was not resurrected back to mortal life.
Jesus did not have to have scars to prove who he was! The proof intended was to show that the old body could be restored, before glorification. Both supernatural healing and immortalization are realities, but do not have to be proven simultaneously.
 

ewq1938

Well-known member
Oct 18, 2018
5,020
1,268
113
#25
Sure he did. You think he's breathing air in the upper atmosphere? I expect that he suffered a lighter form of death than most of us, but I'm sure his physical body could not handle being without food for so many years! ;)
God is powerful enough to give someone food and oxygen.



The idea has to do with resurrection--not glorification. They are connected, but you're reading "glorification" into "resurrection" here, confusing the issues.
The bible doesn't speak of Christ being glorified in the sense of being in an immortal body. Christ resurrected and his mortal body was changed into an immortal body. Similarly, the dead in Christ will also be immortal when they are resurrected.

And you sidestepped my question--what about Sampson? What about the ability of Philip to be translated after witnessing to the Ethiopian eunuch. Your argument seemed to rest on the evidence that because Jesus could "walk through walls," he had to have been glorified.
We all know God can perform miracles but there is more on the side of glorification happening at resurrection then at the ascension where there is literally no evidence at all.


And so your argument doesn't hold up. Just because Jesus walked through walls does not say he had yet been glorified. He still had scars inflicted upon his old body!!
He intentionally retained the scars to show people who he was.



Let me stop you right there, before you lay this down as a fact. Christians have been raised from the dead in their old bodies. There is no necessity that resurrection be associated with glorification.
Sure but the resurrection in Revelation 20 isn't back to mortality nor was Christ's resurrection. He was the firstfruit from the dead but wasn't the first person resurrected so we know he is called that because he was the first to resurrect as immortal. His body was changed when it was resurrected.


However, the 2nd Coming is a different matter. In this case, resurrection leads instantly to glorification.
And that resurrection is directly related to Christ's own resurrection.





Jesus did not have to have scars to prove who he was!
He used his scars/wounds to show that he was Jesus who had been wounded:

Joh 20:27 Then saith he to Thomas, Reach hither thy finger, and behold my hands; and reach hither thy hand, and thrust it into my side: and be not faithless, but believing.


The proof intended was to show that the old body could be restored, before glorification. Both supernatural healing and immortalization are realities, but do not have to be proven simultaneously.