Biblical Eternal Security vs 'Calvinistic Eternal Security' -by Gregg Jackson
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God is omniscient. He foreknows all who will respond and come to faith, and foreknows all who will not. The ones who will are the predestinated elect. But, because the predestinated elect are as spiritually dead as the ones who will not respond, God causes them to respond. It is by God's sovereign grace alone that HE gifts the predestinated elect with faith.
By God's sovereign grace (undeserved favor) we receive the gift of faith that causes us to believe. Ephesians 1:4 "even as he chose us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and blameless before him. In love 5 he predestined us for adoption to himself as sons through Jesus Christ, according to the purpose of his will, 6 to the praise of his glorious grace, with which he has blessed us in the Beloved. 7 In him we have redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of our trespasses, according to the riches of his grace, 8 which he lavished upon us, in all wisdom and insight 9 making known to us the mystery of his will, according to his purpose, which he set forth in Christ 10 as a plan for the fullness of time, to unite all things in him, things in heaven and things on earth."
Huh? That's what I asked you. Can you do it?
So what? You previously said regeneration precedes faith. Can you show that from Scripture?
Then I said this:
"After your attempt, I will show clearly from Scripture that regeneration FOLLOWS faith."
Of course I will. I never make a challenge that I can't prove.
Paul taught that faith precedes regeneration.
Eph 2:5 - made us alive with Christ even when we were dead in transgressions—it is by grace you have been saved.
Red words refer to regeneration.
Blue words refer to our salvation. In this verse, the blue words explain what the red words mean. iow, they go together.
You can't have one without the other. And I'm glad you acknowledged that they occur simultaneously. Because they are equated in that sense.
Eph 2:8 - For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith—and this is not from yourselves, it is the gift of God—
Here, the red words refer to the mechanism of our salvation, which is through faith.
iow, salvation is by faith. Whether "through faith' or "by faith", they both mean the same thing.
So, from these 2 words, both salvation and regeneration are through faith.
Faith precedes both salvation and regeneration.
So what? You previously said regeneration precedes faith. Can you show that from Scripture?
Then I said this:
"After your attempt, I will show clearly from Scripture that regeneration FOLLOWS faith."
Of course I will. I never make a challenge that I can't prove.
Paul taught that faith precedes regeneration.
Eph 2:5 - made us alive with Christ even when we were dead in transgressions—it is by grace you have been saved.
Red words refer to regeneration.
Blue words refer to our salvation. In this verse, the blue words explain what the red words mean. iow, they go together.
You can't have one without the other. And I'm glad you acknowledged that they occur simultaneously. Because they are equated in that sense.
Eph 2:8 - For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith—and this is not from yourselves, it is the gift of God—
Here, the red words refer to the mechanism of our salvation, which is through faith.
iow, salvation is by faith. Whether "through faith' or "by faith", they both mean the same thing.
So, from these 2 words, both salvation and regeneration are through faith.
Faith precedes both salvation and regeneration.
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Of course He does. He is omniscient. But this doesn't lead to the conclusion that God causes faith.
Your opinion cannot be found in Scripture.
Since you have repeatedly NOT provided any verses that support your claims, I want to point out how I study the Bible.
Paul commended the Bereans and noted they were "more noble" than the Thessalonians.
Why? "Because they received the Word gladly and searched the Scriptures DAILY to see if what Paul said (taught) was true".
So, that's how I study the Bible. And what YOU claim. I search the Scriptures DAILY to see if what Calvinists (YOU) say are true.
And I find that the claims of Calvinists are NOT true. Their claims cannot be found in Scripture.
To be taken seriously, one must be able to defend their position from Scripture. You haven't done that.
Your opinion cannot be found in Scripture.
Since you have repeatedly NOT provided any verses that support your claims, I want to point out how I study the Bible.
Paul commended the Bereans and noted they were "more noble" than the Thessalonians.
Why? "Because they received the Word gladly and searched the Scriptures DAILY to see if what Paul said (taught) was true".
So, that's how I study the Bible. And what YOU claim. I search the Scriptures DAILY to see if what Calvinists (YOU) say are true.
And I find that the claims of Calvinists are NOT true. Their claims cannot be found in Scripture.
To be taken seriously, one must be able to defend their position from Scripture. You haven't done that.
Boy is this an easy question.
The claim that God chooses who will believe.
The claim that regeneration precedes faith.
The claim that Jesus only died for the elect.
The claim that election is to salvation.
And you haven't even tried to prove any of these claims of yours from Scripture. Which says everything.
The claim that God chooses who will believe.
The claim that regeneration precedes faith.
The claim that Jesus only died for the elect.
The claim that election is to salvation.
And you haven't even tried to prove any of these claims of yours from Scripture. Which says everything.
Again, you have no biblical support for your opinion.
v.4 actually refutes your opinion. The word "us" is clearly defined by Paul in v.19 - and his incomparably great power for us who believe. That power is the same as the mighty strength
Very clear. Paul used the word "us" to mean "believers".
So in v.4 Paul meant "God has chosen believers...to be holy and blameless".
v.4 actually refutes your opinion. The word "us" is clearly defined by Paul in v.19 - and his incomparably great power for us who believe. That power is the same as the mighty strength
Very clear. Paul used the word "us" to mean "believers".
So in v.4 Paul meant "God has chosen believers...to be holy and blameless".
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Grace is God's unmarried favor. Faith and salvation are the gifts we receive from God's unmerited favor. By grace are you saved through faith: it is a simultaneous event.
Because we are dead in sin, we are morally incapable to come to faith. Our fallen nature inclines us to reject all things spiritual. God gives us the gift of faith in order for us to believe, and Jesus plainly states that we have no power of our own to come to Him, it is the Father that gives us the ability to to respond to Christ. We say yes after God causes us to see the truth.
Because we are dead in sin, we are morally incapable to come to faith. Our fallen nature inclines us to reject all things spiritual. God gives us the gift of faith in order for us to believe, and Jesus plainly states that we have no power of our own to come to Him, it is the Father that gives us the ability to to respond to Christ. We say yes after God causes us to see the truth.
Jesus plainly states in John 6:63 "The Spirit gives life; the flesh profits nothing. The words I have spoken to you are spirit and they are life. 64 However, there are some of you who do not believe.” (For Jesus had known from the beginning which of them did not believe and who would betray Him.)
65 Then Jesus said, “This is why I told you that no one can come to Me unless the Father has granted it to him.”
65 Then Jesus said, “This is why I told you that no one can come to Me unless the Father has granted it to him.”
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Ephesians 2:8 "For it is by grace you have been saved through faith, and this not from yourselves; it is the gift of God, 9 not by works, so that no one can boast."
Salvation and faith are gifts we receive from God's grace. No one comes to faith on their own steam, because we all are dead in trespasses and sins and wholly incapable.
Salvation and faith are gifts we receive from God's grace. No one comes to faith on their own steam, because we all are dead in trespasses and sins and wholly incapable.
Where in the Bible is faith described as a gift of God?
Not really. The words "through faith" prove that faith is first. Salvation follows.
This is just a Calvinist talking point. Please quote any verse that teaches this.
Not true. The reality is that our fallen nature is unable to save ourselves. That's the biblical doctrine of total depravity. Calvinism has perverted the true doctrine into something the Bible does NOT say.
You still haven't provided any verse that describes faith as a gift, so please quit saying that. And YES, man has no power to come to Him. That's why God has come to US. Which you seem unaware of totally.
When Adam rebelled, he "on that day" died spiritually. Therefore, he hid when the Lord came to the garden in the evening. And the Lord reached out to Adam. That is unmerited favor. Grace.
God's creation of the universe has been "clearly seen" because God "made it plain to them (humanity)" so that man has no excuse. Rom 1:19-21.
Yes, that ability comes with our conscience that God created mankind with. Rom 2:14,15.
But you are totally wrong to claim that God causes belief.
Not really. The words "through faith" prove that faith is first. Salvation follows.
This is just a Calvinist talking point. Please quote any verse that teaches this.
Not true. The reality is that our fallen nature is unable to save ourselves. That's the biblical doctrine of total depravity. Calvinism has perverted the true doctrine into something the Bible does NOT say.
You still haven't provided any verse that describes faith as a gift, so please quit saying that. And YES, man has no power to come to Him. That's why God has come to US. Which you seem unaware of totally.
When Adam rebelled, he "on that day" died spiritually. Therefore, he hid when the Lord came to the garden in the evening. And the Lord reached out to Adam. That is unmerited favor. Grace.
God's creation of the universe has been "clearly seen" because God "made it plain to them (humanity)" so that man has no excuse. Rom 1:19-21.
Yes, that ability comes with our conscience that God created mankind with. Rom 2:14,15.
But you are totally wrong to claim that God causes belief.
Let's back up a bit to see the WHOLE context for these verses.
v.65 says basically the same as John 6:44 - “No one can come to me unless the Father who sent me draws them, and I will raise them up at the last day.
But, the very next verse explains who WILL come to Jesus.
v.45 - It is written in the Prophets: ‘They will all be taught by God.’ Everyone who has heard the Father and learned from him comes to me.
Red words indicate that God has taught "all", or everyone. This is seen in Rom 1:19-21.
Blue words indicate the actions that should be taken when being taught. iow, one must listen and learn.
Green words indicate the RESULT of listening and learning from the Father. Such people will come to Jesus.
We see this in the example of Cornelius. He was a listener and learner. And He came to Jesus.
The Bible clearly says that mean seek God. Rom 3 is a quote from Psa 14:1-3 and refers specifically to atheists. They don't seek.
v.65 says basically the same as John 6:44 - “No one can come to me unless the Father who sent me draws them, and I will raise them up at the last day.
But, the very next verse explains who WILL come to Jesus.
v.45 - It is written in the Prophets: ‘They will all be taught by God.’ Everyone who has heard the Father and learned from him comes to me.
Red words indicate that God has taught "all", or everyone. This is seen in Rom 1:19-21.
Blue words indicate the actions that should be taken when being taught. iow, one must listen and learn.
Green words indicate the RESULT of listening and learning from the Father. Such people will come to Jesus.
We see this in the example of Cornelius. He was a listener and learner. And He came to Jesus.
The Bible clearly says that mean seek God. Rom 3 is a quote from Psa 14:1-3 and refers specifically to atheists. They don't seek.
If this is true, why haven't you provided ANY verse to back up your claim?
God's sovereign grace saves those who believe.
1 Cor 1:21 - For since in the wisdom of God the world through its wisdom did not know him, God was pleased through the foolishness of what was preached to save those who believe.
From all your talking points, it seems Calvinists don't really believe 1 Cor 1:21, even though it's clear enough.
God's sovereign grace saves those who believe.
1 Cor 1:21 - For since in the wisdom of God the world through its wisdom did not know him, God was pleased through the foolishness of what was preached to save those who believe.
From all your talking points, it seems Calvinists don't really believe 1 Cor 1:21, even though it's clear enough.
I'll tell again what v.8 really says.
First, in the Greek, genders must match. The word "it" is feminine gender and "saved" is feminine gender. The word "faith" is masculine. So you may cease thinking that "it" refers back to faith. It doesn't.
This is the verse:
For it is by grace you have been saved through faith, and this (salvation) is not from yourselves; it (salvation) is the gift of God.
Receiving a gift in NO WAY suggests or says that the recipient earned the gift. In fact, the very definition of "gift" means an unearned gift.
We don't work for gifts. We DO work for wages. As Rom 4:4,5 clearly explains.
First, in the Greek, genders must match. The word "it" is feminine gender and "saved" is feminine gender. The word "faith" is masculine. So you may cease thinking that "it" refers back to faith. It doesn't.
This is the verse:
For it is by grace you have been saved through faith, and this (salvation) is not from yourselves; it (salvation) is the gift of God.
Receiving a gift in NO WAY suggests or says that the recipient earned the gift. In fact, the very definition of "gift" means an unearned gift.
We don't work for gifts. We DO work for wages. As Rom 4:4,5 clearly explains.
Re: "this" (touto) in Ephesians 2:8, many "ancient exegetes specifically assert that ‘this’ refers back to a feminine noun [faith (pisteōs)] in Ephesians 2:8-9, seven taking touto to refer to ‘faith’ (Chrysostom, Jerome, Augustine, Theodoret, Fulgentius, Œcumenius, Theophylact), and one taking it to refer to ‘grace’ (John of Damascus). These interpreters were either native Greek speakers or, in the case of Jerome and Fulgentius, Latin speakers of undoubted Greek ability, or, in the case of Augustine, the greatest extant theologian of the first Millennium." ... "[A] neuter demonstrative [as in touto] can refer back to a masculine or feminine word."
I'll take their expert opinion over yours (no offense intended),
I'll take their expert opinion over yours (no offense intended),
Re: "this" (touto) in Ephesians 2:8, many "ancient exegetes specifically assert that ‘this’ refers back to a feminine noun [faith (pisteōs)] in Ephesians 2:8-9, seven taking touto to refer to ‘faith’ (Chrysostom, Jerome, Augustine, Theodoret, Fulgentius, Œcumenius, Theophylact), and one taking it to refer to ‘grace’ (John of Damascus). These interpreters were either native Greek speakers or, in the case of Jerome and Fulgentius, Latin speakers of undoubted Greek ability, or, in the case of Augustine, the greatest extant theologian of the first Millennium." ... "[A] neuter demonstrative [as in touto] can refer back to a masculine or feminine word."
I'll take the forementioned experts' opinions over yours (no offense intended), that "this" refers back to "saved" and "faith". The experts say: salvation and faith are gifts of God and not of ourselves, not of works. So, stop boasting.
I'll take the forementioned experts' opinions over yours (no offense intended), that "this" refers back to "saved" and "faith". The experts say: salvation and faith are gifts of God and not of ourselves, not of works. So, stop boasting.