Biblical Eternal Security vs 'Calvinistic Eternal Security' -by Gregg Jackson

[FreeGrace2]

The biggest problem with you is, you have a small view of Almighty God.

I have no problem. My view is from the Bible. You just view God as a great big bully who FORCES things on people who don't want it.

This demonstrates your utter failure to understand what GRACE is. There is no force in GRACE.

Nor can you show such a notion in the Bible.

Why do you believe such outlandish things that you can't find in the Bible???

 

[JerryInBoston]

Basically, yes. I want to have everlasting life with a wonderful God and wonderful people. How about you?

After years of running in the wrong direction, one night I was convicted by the overpowering presence of the Holy Spirit. At that moment, I surrendered, and by God's grace was regenerated, and was given the gift of repentance and faith. I didn't merely hate my sins because of the punishment that awaited me, but I hated knowing my sins were in disobedience to and an affront to the Lord God who created me and saved me from HIS coming wrath. Thank you Lord, for saving a wretch like me and for giving me the gift of persevering faith. I love you Lord Jesus. All blessings honor glory and power to our heavenly Father and Savior Jesus Christ. ❤ Amen.

 

[Icedaisey]

The faith of all saints matter, which is why we should be praying always for the lost. We who are called by God are commanded by God to share the gospel message. Why? Because all unsaved are dead in trespasses and sins and naturally resistant to the spiritual things of God, and the only way to provoke them is with the word of God. Not all will respond, but the elect will respond.

Key word, elect.

Yeshua said, no one comes to Christ unless the father calls them.

Spread the Gospel to people, by your living example of its truth living within you. Always in all ways.

Forums are not the exception.

 

[FreeGrace2]

I'm not a Calvinist. I'm a Christian.

Good grief!! Everything you post comes straight from the Calvinist playbook!

All you post are talking points.

When asked to show verses that say what you post, there are just crickets. No answers at all. No verses.

 

[VARob]

After years of running in the wrong direction, one night I was convicted by the overpowering presence of the Holy Spirit. At that moment, I surrendered, and by God's grace was regenerated, and was given the gift of repentance and faith. I didn't merely hate my sins because of the punishment that awaited me, but I hated knowing my sins were in disobedience to and an affront to the Lord God who created me and saved me from HIS coming wrath. Thank you Lord, for saving a wretch like me and for giving me the gift of persevering faith. I love you Lord Jesus. All blessings honor glory and power to our heavenly Father and Savior Jesus Christ. ❤ Amen.

That’s when you decided to believe. Glad you did!

Also, repentance isn’t a gift. It’s something you chose to do.

Hopefully you pray for other wretches to see the light so they can repent and get saved too.

 

[FreeGrace2]

VARob said:
Perishing. Permanent death. Separation from God. John 3:16.

Why would you have permanent death and separation from God? What would cause that?

The Bible tells us. There's no mystery here, as you seem to insinuate.

John 3:16 - For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life.

John 3:18 - Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe stands condemned already because they have not believed in the name of God’s one and only Son.

John 5:24 - “Very truly I tell you, whoever hears my word and believes him who sent me has eternal life and will not be judged but has crossed over from death to life.

John 10:28 - I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; no one will snatch them out of my hand.

The gospel is so clear and simple that anyone can understand.

But the issue in salvation doesn't stop with understanding the gospel. It is believing what God says.

 

[FreeGrace2]

I’m rusty on Arminius’ five points, but I reject the T, U, L, and I of TULIP. I do believe that salvation for Christians is permanent, even though they may not persevere in the faith.

 

[JerryInBoston]

There you go again, with your big bully God forcing things on unwilling man. The Bible will have NONE of that.

Grace is the absence of works and FORCE.


Well, isn't that just sweet. To "over come the resistance" means to FORCE.

Can you find any verse in the Bible where God "forces" His grace on people?

Force? You mean as in what God did to Mary in the holy conception of Messiah? Sure. God said: "Come. You are going nowhere because you are mine." And then, God had HIS way with me and regenerated me as HIS own. Thank you Lord. ❤

But fine, let's have it your way: God forced HIS Holy Spirit into my life, I couldn't fight anymore, so I surrendered. Little did I know, HE wasn't there to hurt me, HE was there to save me. HE saved my wretched soul from HIS coming wrath. HE gave me the unmerited gifts of repentance, salvation and persevering faith, regenerated me into a new creation. Wow!!! God did all that for a filthy sinner like me.

Whoa! I feel good. God knew that I would, now. I feel good. HE knew that I would, now. So good. So good. I got you, Lord.

 

[JerryInBoston]

That’s when you decided to believe. Glad you did!

Also, repentance isn’t a gift. It’s something you chose to do.

Hopefully you pray for other wretches to see the light so they can repent and get saved too.

No. I did not decide on my own; that's when God changed my heart from unbelief and gifted me with regeneration, repentance, and faith.

Yes, repentance is a gift that comes from a changed heart that comes only from God.

I pray always and share my faith with others, all for the glory of God.

 

[VARob]

No. I did not decide on my own; that's when God changed my heart from unbelief and gifted me with regeneration, repentance, and faith.

Yes, repentance is a gift that comes from a changed heart that comes only from God.

I pray always and share my faith with others, all for the glory of God.

If repentance is a gift, how could Peter command people to repent? (Acts 2:38)

I'm thankful you're a Christian.

One day you'll no longer be a Calvinist.

 

[Icedaisey]

This discussion is bringing the dark side out of those who otherwise pose for the light. It just takes the right proding to show the truth.

 

[JerryInBoston]

If repentance is a gift, how could Peter command people to repent? (Acts 2:38)

I'm thankful you're a Christian.

One day you'll no longer be a Calvinist.

😆 Well, I do favor reformed thinkers, and reformed theology, and I think Calvin's arguments have merit, and some of Jacob Arminius' have merit. I also like what Augustine wrote, and others. But as for John Calvin personally, I am taken back by some of the things he did, or were done at his insistence, to his detractors.

But, thanks nonetheless. I'm thankful you are Christian as well.

 

[Icedaisey]

😆 Well, I do favor reformed thinkers, and reformed theology, and I think Calvin's arguments have merit, and some of Jacob Arminius' have merit. I also like what Augustine wrote, and others. But as for John Calvin personally, I am taken back by some of the things he did, or were done at his insistence, to his detractors.

But, thanks nonetheless. I'm thankful you are Christian as well.

Don't believe the legends.
https://www.crossway.org/articles/5-myths-about-john-calvin/

 

[JerryInBoston]

If repentance is a gift, how could Peter command people to repent? (Acts 2:38)

Peter was filled with the Holy Spirit, and Jesus told them all before He ascended" you will receive power when the Holy Spirit comes upon you, and you will be My witnesses in Jerusalem, and in all Judea and Samaria, and to the ends of the earth."

It was the power of God speaking through Peter at Pentacost, and it was more than Peter just saying "repent." Peter was proclaiming the Word of God, and faith comes by hearing the Word of God. People were changed by hearing the Word of God then, and people are changed by hearing the Word of God now, because the Word of God cuts through men's hearts like a two-edged sword, in the process gifting them with repentance, persevering faith, and regeneration.

 

[FreeGrace2]

Force? You mean as in what God did to Mary in the holy conception of Messiah?

No, I don't mean that at all. You just keep demonstrating how little of the Bible you grasp.

Mary believed in the Messiah. And when the angel announced the Messiah's conception and birth, Mary was all on board. Do you actually think there was force in all that?

I'm talking about the Calvinist notions that all of humanity is totally depraved (the T in tulip). So, in order to get some of these totally depraved people to believe, God FORCES regeneration on them. Do you actually think any of the totally depraved would want to be regenerated??? Calvinist doctrine says the totally depraved hate all things pertaining to God.

So, God has to FORCE regeneration on some of the totally depraved so they WILL believe.

But fine, let's have it your way: God forced HIS Holy Spirit into my life, I couldn't fight anymore, so I surrendered. Little did I know, HE wasn't there to hurt me, HE was there to save me. HE saved my wretched soul from HIS coming wrath. HE gave me the unmerited gifts of repentance, salvation and persevering faith, regenerated me into a new creation. Wow!!! God did all that for a filthy sinner like me.

Here's the zinger though. He had to FORCE His way with you (according to you, not the Bible), but those He chooses NOT to FORCE regeneration on, are condemned because He didn't allow them to believe.

Such a theology is bizarre. There is NO grace in it.

Whoa! I feel good. God knew that I would, now.

God knew that He would have to FORCE you to. Don't try to change the goalposts.

I feel good. HE knew that I would, now. So good. So good. I got you, Lord.

Oh, so now you're changing the goalposts again!!

You "got" the Lord?? Really? Aren't you aware of John 10:28,29?

Obviously not.

 

[Icedaisey]

 

[FreeGrace2]

VARob said:
If repentance is a gift, how could Peter command people to repent? (Acts 2:38)

Peter was filled with the Holy Spirit, and Jesus told them all before He ascended" you will receive power when the Holy Spirit comes upon you, and you will be My witnesses in Jerusalem, and in all Judea and Samaria, and to the ends of the earth."

It was the power of God speaking through Peter at Pentacost, and it was more than Peter just saying "repent." Peter was proclaiming the Word of God, and faith comes by hearing the Word of God. People were changed by hearing the Word of God then, and people are changed by hearing the Word of God now, because the Word of God cuts through men's hearts like a two-edged sword, in the process gifting them with repentance, persevering faith, and regeneration.

The Bible shows very clearly that believing and repentance is a choice that people make.

Acts 7:51 - “You stiff-necked people! Your hearts and ears are still uncircumcised. You are just like your ancestors: You always resist the Holy Spirit!
Acts 14:2 - But the Jews who refused to believe stirred up the other Gentiles and poisoned their minds against the brothers.
Acts 19:9 - But some of them became obstinate; they refused to believe and publicly maligned the Way. So Paul left them. He took the disciples with him and had discussions daily in the lecture hall of Tyrannus.
Rev 2: I have given her time to repent of her immorality, but she refuses.
Rev 16:9 - They were seared by the intense heat and they cursed the name of God, who had control over these plagues, but they refused to repent and glorify him.
Rev 16:11 - and cursed the God of heaven because of their pains and their sores, but they refused to repent of what they had done.

In order to refuse to do something shows the ABILITY to do it.

Otherwise, "refuse" has no meaning at all.

All these verses prove that man is free to choose, which is free will.

Resistance is a choice. Refusal is a choice.

Man is able and free to believe, repent and not resist. Proven by these verses.

 

[JerryInBoston]

You "got" the Lord?? Really? Aren't you aware of John 10:28,29?

Obviously not.

😆 😆😆 You're way too funny, sonny. I guess you never heard James Brown sing "I Got You."

 

[Grandpa]

VARob said:
If repentance is a gift, how could Peter command people to repent? (Acts 2:38)

The Bible shows very clearly that believing and repentance is a choice that people make.

Acts 7:51 - “You stiff-necked people! Your hearts and ears are still uncircumcised. You are just like your ancestors: You always resist the Holy Spirit!
Acts 14:2 - But the Jews who refused to believe stirred up the other Gentiles and poisoned their minds against the brothers.
Acts 19:9 - But some of them became obstinate; they refused to believe and publicly maligned the Way. So Paul left them. He took the disciples with him and had discussions daily in the lecture hall of Tyrannus.
Rev 2: I have given her time to repent of her immorality, but she refuses.
Rev 16:9 - They were seared by the intense heat and they cursed the name of God, who had control over these plagues, but they refused to repent and glorify him.
Rev 16:11 - and cursed the God of heaven because of their pains and their sores, but they refused to repent of what they had done.

In order to refuse to do something shows the ABILITY to do it.

Otherwise, "refuse" has no meaning at all.

All these verses prove that man is free to choose, which is free will.

Resistance is a choice. Refusal is a choice.

Man is able and free to believe, repent and not resist. Proven by these verses.

Those verses don't prove ability.

They only prove that you WANT them to.


Just because you are commanded to do something doesn't mean you have the ability to do it. Although that is the general assumption from those who don't understand.


Everyone resists the Holy Spirit until GOD circumcises their hearts and ears and gives them the Gift of Repentance.


Matthew 5:48 Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect.

You don't have the ability to do that. You need help.

 

[FreeGrace2]

😆 😆😆 You're way too funny, sonny. I guess you never heard James Brown sing "I Got You."

I don't care what James Brown sings. I was commenting on what YOU said. Let's leave Brown out of this.