accepting Jesus

[HisKid]

Just what it says. You commit yourself to living the same way Jesus did. With Jesus in our life we exhibit the same kind of good works he did, and so suffer rejection by both the world and the Devil.

That may be your opinion, but it's not what the Word of God says.

Matthew 16:
24 Then Jesus told his disciples, “If anyone would come after me, let him deny himself and take up his cross and follow me. 25 For whoever would save his life will lose it, but whoever loses his life for my sake will find it. 26 For what will it profit a man if he gains the whole world and forfeits his soul? Or what shall a man give in return for his soul?

 

[randyk]

You take up your cross after you are born again, and on your way to heaven.

That's discipleship.

I have never said otherwise! You receive Salvation *by your own choice.* And after receiving Salvation, and after receiving the Holy Spirit, you determine Christ alone is the basis for your life. You live by the Spirit alone. All the works of the flesh are to be put under your feet--at least, that is the goal. We will never be perfect in the present life.

Once we've received Christ, we're saved, and we choose to carry our own cross, which is living in Christ. And because we adopt the life of Christ into our own lives, we experience some of the same things Christ experienced. We are persecuted for our testimony, and mocked for our righteous living. And Satan opposes us in any way he can, whether by slander, by hatred, by making things tough for us.

It is only you, Kidron, who keeps saying that my message is to do good *before* Salvation. I've *never* said we can do good apart from the virtue and Spirit of Christ. And I've never said that our works obtain Salvation for us. All I've been saying is that true Christian Salvation requires that we do good works in Christ. Unless it is a full commitment to Christ, it is not Salvation.

 

[Kidron]

It is only you, Kidron, who keeps saying that my message is to do good *before* Salvation.

The deceived, who are of the "Pre-destined" "Hyper Calvinist' cult, teach that all is pre-ordained, pre-determined, including behavior, subsequent to Salvation.

Legalist,..... teach that Salvation is begun by Christ but maintained by how you live, and how you perform, your Christianity.
So, that is "self saving", that began with faith in Christ but became broken faith which turned into...."here is what i have to DO, to stay saved".

So, to discover a legalist, all you have to do is ask them if they can lose their Salvation.
If they say. "Yes", then this means they do not trust in Christ to keep them saved, which means they have faith in something else to try to stay saved.

Also, a legalist will be obsessive, regarding constantly trying to teach that you can lose your salvation.

 

[randyk]

The deceived, who are of the "Pre-destined" "Hyper Calvinist' cult, teach that all is pre-ordained, pre-determined, including behavior, subsequent to Salvation.

Legalist,..... teach that Salvation is begun by Christ but maintained by how you live, and how you perform, your Christianity.
So, that is "self saving", that began with faith in Christ but became broken faith which turned into...."here is what i have to DO, to stay saved".

So, to discover a legalist, all you have to do is ask them if they can lose their Salvation.
If they say. "Yes", then this means they do not trust in Christ to keep them saved, which means they have faith in something else to try to stay saved.

Also, a legalist will be obsessive, regarding constantly trying to teach that you can lose your salvation.

I do *not* believe, brother, than once truly saved a person can lose his or her salvation. Genuine rebirth is for life! I hope that clarifies?

 

[randyk]

That may be your opinion, but it's not what the Word of God says.

Matthew 16:
24 Then Jesus told his disciples, “If anyone would come after me, let him deny himself and take up his cross and follow me. 25 For whoever would save his life will lose it, but whoever loses his life for my sake will find it. 26 For what will it profit a man if he gains the whole world and forfeits his soul? Or what shall a man give in return for his soul?

Apparently you reject plain-speaking? I do have a problem with some, who cannot believe it when someone says, "The sun is rising." They think, "Surely, the person is poisonous and wishes to deceive me?"

But all I can do is tell you, "The Sun is rising." You can accept it or reject it.

Apparently, you reject it? Apparently, you don't believe me when I tell you what the Scripture teaches, simply because I'm the one saying it?

Matt 5.12 Rejoice and be glad, because great is your reward in heaven, for in the same way they persecuted the prophets who were before you.

John 15.18 “If the world hates you, keep in mind that it hated me first. "

 

[Pilgrimshope]

If you are confessing sin, for years and years, then you are a failed discipleship.
God does not save you so that you can live the rest of your life confessing sin, trying to keep from going to hell as your cult teaches.

And i'll tell you again......
If you HAVE sin, if you HAVE IT.....= then that means you are not forgiven........You are not born again. You are just water baptized playing a religious game with yourself...
Listen, You can't go to heaven and "have sin",..... as there is no sin found where God exists..
This is why He came here....>He came here to make us "the righteousness of God in Christ", and that is to be born again Spiritually as "made righteous".

I’m sure glad Jesus didn’t give jidgement over others to folks like yourself it would be the self righteous Pharisees ruling all over again

you haven’t a clue about repentance I just understood that you have never acknowledged your own sinfulness that’s why you reject what scripture has to say regarding it

you’ll never come to repentance until you start hearing Jesus call to it in the gospel , but sadly the Pharisees and self righteous folk don’t want to hear about repentance according to God you would rather reject his word and create your own way you can’t even acknowledge the truth

“But love ye your enemies, and do good, and lend, hoping for nothing again; and your reward shall be great, and ye shall be the children of the Highest: for he is kind unto the unthankful and to the evil. Be ye therefore merciful, as your Father also is merciful. Judge not, and ye shall not be judged: condemn not, and ye shall not be condemned: forgive, and ye shall be forgiven:

And why call ye me, Lord, Lord, and do not the things which I say?

Whosoever cometh to me, and heareth my sayings, and doeth them, I will shew you to whom he is like: He is like a man which built an house, and digged deep, and laid the foundation on a rock: and when the flood arose, the stream beat vehemently upon that house, and could not shake it: for it was founded upon a rock.”
‭‭Luke‬ ‭6:35-37, 46-48‬

You are trying to first reject the gospel and then demand sinless perfection from others what doctrine are you so righteous in ? You obviously don’t believe the New Testament so are you referring to the Ten Commandments ?

let’s examine you since you are making this high judgement of others can you even acknowledge that Jesus and his doctrine is the right doctrine ?

 

[Pilgrimshope]

Apparently you reject plain-speaking? I do have a problem with some, who cannot believe it when someone says, "The sun is rising." They think, "Surely, the person is poisonous and wishes to deceive me?"

But all I can do is tell you, "The Sun is rising." You can accept it or reject it.

Apparently, you reject it? Apparently, you don't believe me when I tell you what the Scripture teaches, simply because I'm the one saying it?

Matt 5.12 Rejoice and be glad, because great is your reward in heaven, for in the same way they persecuted the prophets who were before you.

John 15.18 “If the world hates you, keep in mind that it hated me first. "

Even if you show the scripture they will say you just don’t get it it’s because there aren’t ears

 

[HisKid]

Apparently you reject plain-speaking? I do have a problem with some, who cannot believe it when someone says, "The sun is rising." They think, "Surely, the person is poisonous and wishes to deceive me?"

But all I can do is tell you, "The Sun is rising." You can accept it or reject it.

Apparently, you reject it? Apparently, you don't believe me when I tell you what the Scripture teaches, simply because I'm the one saying it?

Matt 5.12 Rejoice and be glad, because great is your reward in heaven, for in the same way they persecuted the prophets who were before you.

John 15.18 “If the world hates you, keep in mind that it hated me first. "

You accuse me of hating you? That is odd.

Not sure what you mean by plain speaking. I posted Scripture that clearly states what "carry your cross" means according to God. You are now arguing with God.

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[Pilgrimshope]

You take up your cross after you are born again, and on your way to heaven.

That's discipleship.

See, the heresy, is.......""Christ saved me, and now after im saved, i have to DO THIS and DO THAT and KEEP THIS, and try not to do THAT, and if by all these DOs and DONT's, i succeed to the END, ......then i have kept myself Saved.........i hope".

See that CHRIST REJECTiON ?? = that is SELF SELF SELF SELF Effort being taught , in place of God's Grace.

Its clear as a BELL.

= Thats LEGALISM, .......and it REJECTS the CROSS and replaces it with : "what i have to do to STAY SAVED".

That is the Gospel of SELF SAVING, and that is the Devil's Gospel of WORKS.

“Its clear as a BELL.”

“For the Father judgeth no man, but hath committed all judgment unto the Son:

Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.”
‭‭John‬ ‭5:22, 24‬ ‭KJV‬‬

it’s not about what you think but about what Jesus said that’s the judgement

that’s where you are going wrong you are afraid to hear his word who owns all jidgement and the same word you won’t hear , of you don’t repent of that and start letting it in will sadly result in this

“He that rejecteth me, and receiveth not my words, hath one that judgeth him: the word that I have spoken, the same shall judge him in the last day.

For I have not spoken of myself; but the Father which sent me, he gave me a commandment, what I should say, and what I should speak. And I know that his commandment is life everlasting: whatsoever I speak therefore, even as the Father said unto me, so I speak.”
‭‭John‬ ‭12:48-50‬ ‭KJV‬‬

you should look into the things jesus taught in the four gospels its forever life and death

“Heaven and earth shall pass away, but my words shall not pass away.”
‭‭Matthew‬ ‭24:35‬ ‭KJV‬‬

it will be the same gospel until the end of the world

“And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come.”
‭‭Matthew‬ ‭24:14‬ ‭KJV‬‬

he will never change

“Jesus Christ the same yesterday, and to day, and for ever.”
‭‭Hebrews‬ ‭13:8‬ ‭KJV‬‬

You should turn your mind tonthe things jesus taught it’s how we are born again

“Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever.

But the word of the Lord endureth for ever. And this is the word which by the gospel is preached unto you.”
‭‭1 Peter‬ ‭1:23,

but it’s hard when we’ve been convinced of contrary things but you are right it’s as clear as a bell

“And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature. He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved;

but he that believeth not shall be damned.”
‭‭Mark‬ ‭16:15-16‬ ‭KJV‬‬

 

[randyk]

You accuse me of hating you? That is odd.
Not sure what you mean by plain speaking. I posted Scripture that clearly states what "carry your cross" means according to God. You are now arguing with God.
.

No, I'm not. I'm defending myself against someone who apparently wishes to twist my words. I mentioned that we must "carry our cross." I said that because Jesus said that.

But now you question what I mean by this? It means what it means! I added to the idea of carrying our cross by indicating that we must live in Jesus. I say that because Jesus said it. Are you now going to ask me what I mean by "living in Jesus?"

So when I quote Scripture, and argue with Scripture you say I'm "arguing with God?" Rather, I think you're an accusing person and wish to defame me. If you're going to attack someone, don't attack them for quoting Scripture, nor for explaining things by Scripture. Go after those who produce false teaching. What you're doing is *not* "loving your brother."

 

[HisKid]

No, I'm not. I'm defending myself against someone who apparently wishes to twist my words. I mentioned that we must "carry our cross." I said that because Jesus said that.

But now you question what I mean by this? It means what it means! I added to the idea of carrying our cross by indicating that we must live in Jesus. I say that because Jesus said it. Are you now going to ask me what I mean by "living in Jesus?"

So when I quote Scripture, and argue with Scripture you say I'm "arguing with God?" Rather, I think you're an accusing person and wish to defame me. If you're going to attack someone, don't attack them for quoting Scripture, nor for explaining things by Scripture. Go after those who produce false teaching. What you're doing is *not* "loving your brother."

I didn't twist your words at all. I asked you what it meant to you and then corrected you with God's word.

God's word is false teaching? You must be confusing me with someone else.

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[randyk]

I didn't twist your words at all. I asked you what it meant to you and then corrected you with God's word.

God's word is false teaching? You must be confusing me with someone else.

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You never corrected me at all. Perhaps you are confusing me with someone else?

You said:

That may be your opinion, but it's not what the Word of God says.

Matthew 16:
24 Then Jesus told his disciples, “If anyone would come after me, let him deny himself and take up his cross and follow me. 25 For whoever would save his life will lose it, but whoever loses his life for my sake will find it. 26 For what will it profit a man if he gains the whole world and forfeits his soul? Or what shall a man give in return for his soul?

What "opinion" are you talking about? I was only referring to something Jesus said--not an "opinion!" You better make sure you know who you're addressing and what you're attacking before you level untruths at me!

 

[HisKid]

You never corrected me at all. Perhaps you are confusing me with someone else?

You said:

That may be your opinion, but it's not what the Word of God says.

Matthew 16:
24 Then Jesus told his disciples, “If anyone would come after me, let him deny himself and take up his cross and follow me. 25 For whoever would save his life will lose it, but whoever loses his life for my sake will find it. 26 For what will it profit a man if he gains the whole world and forfeits his soul? Or what shall a man give in return for his soul?

What "opinion" are you talking about? I was only referring to something Jesus said--not an "opinion!" You better make sure you know who you're addressing and what you're attacking before you level untruths at me!

This is the opinion you offered, "You commit yourself to living the same way Jesus did. With Jesus in our life we exhibit the same kind of good works he did, and so suffer rejection by both the world and the Devil". This is not what the Word says, so I posted Scripture showing you what the Word of God says.

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[mindfulzen]

It strikes me that it seems like most people tell people to forgive, so God will forgive you. How is that a pure motivation? Seems selfish. And agenda. Not because of need even, but a want. I think you should be dispassionate, and just ask, without knowing one way or the other if you go up or down. You can have a feeling, but how can you have certainty? The point shouldd be, ready for trial, and no fear or being emotional about it. Knowing you get saved, what is that? That is not faith. And I think it is also pride. What I have read says, gear all your love towards God, and in doing so, you must stop selflove and become a servant of God.

 

[HisKid]

It strikes me that it seems like most people tell people to forgive, so God will forgive you. How is that a pure motivation? Seems selfish. And agenda. Not because of need even, but a want. I think you should be dispassionate, and just ask, without knowing one way or the other if you go up or down. You can have a feeling, but how can you have certainty? The point shouldd be, ready for trial, and no fear or being emotional about it. Knowing you get saved, what is that? That is not faith. And I think it is also pride. What I have read says, gear all your love towards God, and in doing so, you must stop selflove and become a servant of God.

I have no idea what you just said.

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[randyk]

This is the opinion you offered, "You commit yourself to living the same way Jesus did. With Jesus in our life we exhibit the same kind of good works he did, and so suffer rejection by both the world and the Devil". This is not what the Word says, so I posted Scripture showing you what the Word of God says.

False, yes that's what I said, and yes, it is exactly what Jesus said. I was referring, as I said, to what Jesus said! I wasn't adding a thing to it, except to put it in my own words!

Here is what Jesus said, that I was referring to:

I said: "We must live the same way Jesus did."
1 John 2.6 Whoever claims to live in him must live as Jesus did.

I said: "We must exhibit the same kind of good works he did."
1 John 2. 29 If you know that he is righteous, you know that everyone who does what is right has been born of him.

I said: We must suffer rejection by both the world and the Devil, because of our living in Christ.
John 15.19 If you belonged to the world, it would love you as its own. As it is, you do not belong to the world, but I have chosen you out of the world. That is why the world hates you. 20 Remember what I told you: ‘A servant is not greater than his master.’ If they persecuted me, they will persecute you also. If they obeyed my teaching, they will obey yours also. 21 They will treat you this way because of my name, for they do not know the one who sent me. 22 If I had not come and spoken to them, they would not be guilty of sin; but now they have no excuse for their sin. 23 Whoever hates me hates my Father as well. 24 If I had not done among them the works no one else did, they would not be guilty of sin. As it is, they have seen, and yet they have hated both me and my Father. 25 But this is to fulfill what is written in their Law: ‘They hated me without reason.’

This is exactly what the Word says. And I knew that because years ago I memorized all of 1 John, and am intimately aware of what John wrote and meant. Now you owe me an apology, since what you've said is obviously false and a slander against me.

 

[HisKid]

False, yes that's what I said, and yes, it is exactly what Jesus said. I was referring, as I said, to what Jesus said! I wasn't adding a thing to it, except to put it in my own words!

Here is what Jesus said, that I was referring to:

I said: "We must live the same way Jesus did."
1 John 2.6 Whoever claims to live in him must live as Jesus did.

I said: "We must exhibit the same kind of good works he did."
1 John 2. 29 If you know that he is righteous, you know that everyone who does what is right has been born of him.

I said: We must suffer rejection by both the world and the Devil, because of our living in Christ.
John 15.19 If you belonged to the world, it would love you as its own. As it is, you do not belong to the world, but I have chosen you out of the world. That is why the world hates you. 20 Remember what I told you: ‘A servant is not greater than his master.’ If they persecuted me, they will persecute you also. If they obeyed my teaching, they will obey yours also. 21 They will treat you this way because of my name, for they do not know the one who sent me. 22 If I had not come and spoken to them, they would not be guilty of sin; but now they have no excuse for their sin. 23 Whoever hates me hates my Father as well. 24 If I had not done among them the works no one else did, they would not be guilty of sin. As it is, they have seen, and yet they have hated both me and my Father. 25 But this is to fulfill what is written in their Law: ‘They hated me without reason.’

This is exactly what the Word says. And I knew that because years ago I memorized all of 1 John, and am intimately aware of what John wrote and meant. Now you owe me an apology, since what you've said is obviously false and a slander against me.

How are you walking as Jesus walked? Be specific.

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[mindfulzen]

I have no idea what you just said.

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I was young and had christianity as a class in school, and in those days it was not presented as free. I also use dantes 7 mortal sins as a guide. So, I will not break those. Those writings explains much of what the old testament was about, in a simple way to understand. And you have the literature example of those sins. If you "know" where you are going, instead off just having faith in it, seems like pride. If I know, I lose the faith. So I know I am ready to be judged, but do not know the verdict of the judgement from God. Only faith, that I can go and be judged without fear, in complete truth, then accept the judgement regardless. In the orthodox it is a continuous process that never ends, leaving more and more of your choices over to him. Choosing what he wants us to live. Kind of like driving God around in a cab and taking directions, and say thank you. And the bible is your GPS. We are just at work driving the car. Clearer?

 

[HisKid]

I was young and had christianity as a class in school, and in those days it was not presented as free. I also use dantes 7 mortal sins as a guide. So, I will not break those. Those writings explains much of what the old testament was about, in a simple way to understand. And you have the literature example of those sins. If you "know" where you are going, instead off just having faith in it, seems like pride. If I know, I lose the faith. So I know I am ready to be judged, but do not know the verdict of the judgement from God. Only faith, that I can go and be judged without fear, in complete truth, then accept the judgement regardless. In the orthodox it is a continuous process that never ends, leaving more and more of your choices over to him. Choosing what he wants us to live. Kind of like driving God around in a cab and taking directions, and say thank you. And the bible is your GPS. We are just at work driving the car. Clearer?

Oh, I see.

Faith is actually evidence of what we cannot see. It is evidence.
Hebrews 11:1 Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen.

Further - His Spirit testifies to our spirit that we belong to Him. We KNOW.
1 John 4:13 “Hereby know we that we dwell in him, and he in us, because he hath given us of his Spirit.”

Without His Spirit you will know nothing. With His spirit we are confident; not in ourselves, but in His promise to us.

.

 

[mindfulzen]

Oh, I see.

Faith is actually evidence of what we cannot see. It is evidence.
Hebrews 11:1 Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen.

Further - His Spirit testifies to our spirit that we belong to Him. We KNOW.
1 John 4:13 “Hereby know we that we dwell in him, and he in us, because he hath given us of his Spirit.”

Without His Spirit you will know nothing. With His spirit we are confident; not in ourselves, but in His promise to us.

.

This is true, important book, the hebrew stuff. I think we agree when you paste that. The John verse I have interpreted as follows. His spirit testifies to our spirit that we belong to him, that means the holy spirit, right? And we know that. And exactly, we are confident in his promise to us, but not ourselves. So we live the credo as to speak. Some things is lost in translation, because I read a bible in another language, and it is not exactly phrased the same, and the names of the books are not exactly the same in the book. And my bible is not my prefered language/dialect, so I use a dictionary to understand all the words. It is an old version in the wrong language.