2 Thessalonians 2:3—Rebellion or Apostasy?

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Jul 28, 2021
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#81
I see you ran away from the rapture by getting snarky and judgemental okey doke
I have never run away from the rapture. This subject has been debated for years and years and years and years and decades (all sides supported by Scripture) ad nauseum. Seriously, you are not going to change anyone's mind, so what is your real motive? Do you think you are finally bringing light to the subject? Seriously?

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Pilgrimshope

Well-known member
Sep 2, 2020
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#82
I have never run away from the rapture. This subject has been debated for years and years and years and years and decades (all sides supported by Scripture) ad nauseum. Seriously, you are not going to change anyone's mind, so what is your real motive? Do you think you are finally bringing light to the subject? Seriously?

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I think you claim to be a believers and so do I , so the secret isn’t what I think or you think but what God said about it and we’re supposed to believe him even if it corrects us in our thinking so again when does the rapture happen before or after the tribulation ? Simple friendly question to you , believer forget the part about how you need to set me straight and all that and let’s just believe together in Gods word about it ? Fair ?

“For false Christs and false prophets shall rise, and shall shew signs and wonders, to seduce, if it were possible, even the elect. But take ye heed: behold, I have foretold you all things. But in those days, after that tribulation, the sun shall be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, And the stars of heaven shall fall, and the powers that are in heaven shall be shaken. And then shall they see the Son of man coming in the clouds with great power and glory. And then shall he send his angels, and shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from the uttermost part of the earth to the uttermost part of heaven.”
‭‭Mark‬ ‭13:22-27‬ ‭KJV‬‬

before the tribulation or just at its conclusion immediately after ?

“Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:”
‭‭Matthew‬ ‭24:29‬ ‭KJV‬‬

as I showed before oaul understood it is the church going to be here still at his return ? And will they then be gathered to him by the angels that day ?

“For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first: Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.”
‭‭1 Thessalonians‬ ‭4:16-17‬ ‭KJV‬‬


I believe this , the Bible answer it all and we’re meant to let it in but often we read theories and books about the Bible from men looking to gain wealth and sell books so they create theories that aren’t in there known as false doctrine then they teach from obscure scripture that isn’t clear at all but to do that and what allows for that is when we reject what’s there

it shouldn’t matter to you who showed something that Jesus made clear , it should make you glad that his word reached you to correct you forget about me I’m nothing and no one just another discussed in the forum but the words I quoted tonyou should make a difference in your belief

that’s what I think
 
Jul 28, 2021
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#83
I think you claim to be a believers and so do I , so the secret isn’t what I think or you think but what God said about it and we’re supposed to believe him even if it corrects us in our thinking so again when does the rapture happen before or after the tribulation ? Simple friendly question to you , believer forget the part about how you need to set me straight and all that and let’s just believe together in Gods word about it ? Fair ?

“For false Christs and false prophets shall rise, and shall shew signs and wonders, to seduce, if it were possible, even the elect. But take ye heed: behold, I have foretold you all things. But in those days, after that tribulation, the sun shall be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, And the stars of heaven shall fall, and the powers that are in heaven shall be shaken. And then shall they see the Son of man coming in the clouds with great power and glory. And then shall he send his angels, and shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from the uttermost part of the earth to the uttermost part of heaven.”
‭‭Mark‬ ‭13:22-27‬ ‭KJV‬‬

before the tribulation or just at its conclusion immediately after ?

“Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:”
‭‭Matthew‬ ‭24:29‬ ‭KJV‬‬

as I showed before oaul understood it is the church going to be here still at his return ? And will they then be gathered to him by the angels that day ?

“For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first: Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.”
‭‭1 Thessalonians‬ ‭4:16-17‬ ‭KJV‬‬


I believe this , the Bible answer it all and we’re meant to let it in but often we read theories and books about the Bible from men looking to gain wealth and sell books so they create theories that aren’t in there known as false doctrine then they teach from obscure scripture that isn’t clear at all but to do that and what allows for that is when we reject what’s there

it shouldn’t matter to you who showed something that Jesus made clear , it should make you glad that his word reached you to correct you forget about me I’m nothing and no one just another discussed in the forum but the words I quoted tonyou should make a difference in your belief

that’s what I think
Pre-trib and post-trib can both be supported by Scripture, and you know it. This is why I do not take a side because frankly, it doesn't matter to me when the Lord takes me home. I trust in Him.

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Pilgrimshope

Well-known member
Sep 2, 2020
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#84
Pre-trib and post-trib can both be supported by Scripture, and you know it. This is why I do not take a side because frankly, it doesn't matter to me when the Lord takes me home. I trust in Him.

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no I’m a believer in Christ why are you avoiding the obvious ? Pride because you believed opposite ? We all have in many ways that’s what it’s all about brother you know in your heart how clear God himself spoke it over shown you three times what he and Paul said , let it sit for awhile I enplore we w brother and then respond but only consoder what Jesus and Paul said there

you will then find that scripture only really ever supports the truth of God and it’s also distorted often by men in secret but when you see it itself it isn’t double minded it creates the same faith in all believers belief comes by the plain things

“Confirming the souls of the disciples, and exhorting them to continue in the faith, and that we must through much tribulation enter into the kingdom of God.”
‭‭Acts‬ ‭14:22‬ ‭KJV‬‬

if you can let it in there much more significance to it but it won’t make sense until belief hits
 
Jul 28, 2021
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#85
no I’m a believer in Christ why are you avoiding the obvious ? Pride because you believed opposite ? We all have in many ways that’s what it’s all about brother you know in your heart how clear God himself spoke it over shown you three times what he and Paul said , let it sit for awhile I enplore we w brother and then respond but only consoder what Jesus and Paul said there

you will then find that scripture only really ever supports the truth of God and it’s also distorted often by men in secret but when you see it itself it isn’t double minded it creates the same faith in all believers belief comes by the plain things

“Confirming the souls of the disciples, and exhorting them to continue in the faith, and that we must through much tribulation enter into the kingdom of God.”
‭‭Acts‬ ‭14:22‬ ‭KJV‬‬

if you can let it in there much more significance to it but it won’t make sense until belief hits

Have you seriously not seen the very legitimate argument for pre-trip supported by Scripture. You believe post.. many believe pre. So?

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Apr 15, 2017
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#86
2 Thessalonians 2:3 says: "Let no one deceive you in any way. For that day will not come, unless the rebellion comes first. . ." (ESV) I generally like the ESV, but I believe they got this one totally wrong. The NASB says correctly "apostasy"; the KJV and NKJV also "falling away."

The Greek, apostasia, doesn't mean rebellion; it means "stand away from," "leave or depart," or "leaving from a previous standing." It's not talking about an outright rebellion; it's talking about those who, either intentionally, or through laxity, have drifted away into false doctrine. They've left behind what once was considered sound Biblical authority and now embrace all kinds of things that have no scriptural authority whatsoever. In other words, the apostasy's here folks, it's come.
Mat 16:18 And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.

The Church can never fall away for the gates of hell cannot prevail against the Church.

There may be hypocrites and no matter how many hypocrites there are the Church can never fall away.

No matter how bad it gets with hypocrisy and false doctrine the Church will never fall away but there will only be more hypocrites and false teachings mainly to suit the lusts of the people.

2Th 2:2 That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand.
2Th 2:3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition.

The falling away is the condition of the world in response to the Gospel that they make it a world wide law that no person can preach the Gospel or it is a hate crime resulting in punishment or telling them they cannot preach the Gospel going by the new age movement as standard religion in the world and nothing else can be preached which causes the Muslims to rebel against the world.

This is when the nations come together as one to try to establish peace on earth and the New Age Christ is working in the world as a man of peace and pushing the agenda of the new age movement that interprets the Bible and all religions according to the occult and evolution and they are still evolving and there is no personal God.

This will cause the world to fall away from hearing the truth of the Bible which causes the man of sin to be able to rule over them which he will be of the new age movement.

Then the saints can be gathered unto Christ.

The Church can never fall away.

The falling away is the condition of the world in response to the Gospel and as long as one nation allows the preaching of the Gospel then the falling away will not happen but all nations came together and stopped the preaching of the Gospel on a world wide scale which is the falling away which allows the man of sin to rule over them.

The new age movement the beginning of the end.

1Ti 4:1 Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils;
1Ti 4:2 Speaking lies in hypocrisy; having their conscience seared with a hot iron;
1Ti 4:3 Forbidding to marry, and commanding to abstain from meats, which God hath created to be received with thanksgiving of them which believe and know the truth.
1Ti 4:4 For every creature of God is good, and nothing to be refused, if it be received with thanksgiving:
1Ti 4:5 For it is sanctified by the word of God and prayer.

God warns the saints of the new age movement, and their interpretation of the Bible based on the occult, and evolution, and people are still evolving to be spiritual provided by the New Age Christ, and Jesus is not Lord and Savior, but a good teacher and love, and the Christ conscience came upon him, and he evolved to be an ascended master, and believe in no personal God, but honor the God of forces, or the power of nature as their higher power, the evolutionary process, and the New Age Christ is the final teacher, and he will evolve to be greater than Jesus, and share this power with all people who follow him.

They will forbid to marry for a man and a woman for population reduction, and command to abstain from meats, reverence of nature, mother earth.

The new age movement will pave the way to the beast kingdom for all people who do not love God where they will take the mark of the beast, and then repentance and salvation are no longer available to the world, and God will end sin on earth, and have His people will Him.

2 Preach the word; be instant in season, out of season; reprove, rebuke, exhort with all longsuffering and doctrine.
3 For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears;
4 And they shall turn away their ears from the truth, and shall be turned unto fables(2 Timothy 4:2-4).

The time will come when the world will not want to hear the truth of the Bible, but want to hear it according to their own lusts the new age movement.

The New Age Christ will establish peace in the Middle East, and work as a great man of peace, and push the agenda of the new age movement in the world to prepare the world for when he claims to be God by harnessing the power of nature, and evolving, and will share this power with all people who follow him.

Alice Bailey the biggest prophet of the new age movement wrote many books speaking of the coming united religious system, one world government, and New Age Christ, and other occult things, and they set up a web site lucistrust.org promoting her books and writing which she interpreted the Bible according to the occult and evolution.

She was married to a Freemason who agreed with her writing, so he is of the inner circle of Freemason, which there is an inner circle and outer circle of the occult, and Alice Bailey said the inner circle is the true church.

The inner circle is too extreme in the occult for mainstream society so they put out a lighter version an outer circle that is more tolerable to the people to get them interested in a light version of the occult.

When the New Age Christ establishes peace in the Middle East he will push the agenda of the new age movement and the people will lust more for power through nature and when the New Age Christ claims to be God and to set up his kingdom the outer circle became the inner circle and the beast kingdom will be accepted by those who do not keep the commandments of God, and the testimony of Jesus Christ.

The new age movement has an inner circle as well as Freemason, and the Mormon church, and Scientology, and Christian Science, and churches who have great deception such as them as well as many occult groups.

They are trying to get the world to go in the direction of the New Age Christ kingdom so that Lucifer can set up a kingdom which they believe Lucifer will help people to evolve spiritually.

The esoteric meaning of Lucifer, how they interpret the Bible.

There are comments on the World Wide Web claiming that the Lucis Trust was once called the Lucifer Trust. Such was never the case. However, for a brief period of two or three years in the early 1920’s, when Alice and Foster Bailey were beginning to publish the books published under her name, they named their fledgling publishing company “Lucifer Publishing Company”. By 1925 the name was changed to Lucis Publishing Company and has remained so ever since.Both “Lucifer” and “Lucis” come from the same word root, lucis being the Latin generative case meaning of light. The Baileys' reasons for choosing the original name are not known to us, but we can only surmise that they, like the great teacher H.P. Blavatsky, for whom they had enormous respect, sought to elicit a deeper understanding of the sacrifice made by Lucifer. Alice and Foster Bailey were serious students and teachers of Theosophy, a spiritual tradition which views Lucifer as one of the solar Angels, those advanced Beings Who Theosophy says descended (thus “the fall”) from Venus to our planet eons ago to bring the principle of mind to what was then animal-man. In the theosophical perspective, the descent of these solar Angels was not a fall into sin or disgrace but rather an act of great sacrifice, as is suggested in the name “Lucifer” which means light-bearer.
 
Jul 23, 2018
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#87
yes because Jesus taught them that and then revealed it to Paul by revelation

Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken: And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.”
‭‭Matthew‬ ‭24:29-31‬ ‭KJV‬‬

before this he was teaching them they would go through terrible times and many would be killed but whoever endured would be saved
Endured the trib?
Those that SUPPOSEDLY make it through the trib are saved?

Think about it.

Not even plausable


"""And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.”
‭‭Matthew‬ ‭24:29-31‬ ‭KJV"""

You sure you want to position yourself there?
Angels gather...not Jesus

They gather FROM HEAVEN ...not earth.

Definately points to a pretrib rapture with your quoted gathering while they are in heaven.
Yes. Amen
You are right
The gathering in heaven is after the trib. Those raptured pretrib are there, and are gathered postrib by angels IN HEAVEN for the horses IN HEAVEN to mount them for the return WITH JESUS TO EARTH.
Thanks for pointing that out.
 

Pilgrimshope

Well-known member
Sep 2, 2020
14,175
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#88
Have you seriously not seen the very legitimate argument for pre-trip supported by Scripture. You believe post.. many believe pre. So?

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brother I’ve explained to you I stick with what the Bible says and yes I’ve heard about all of it that doesn’t change what’s actually written in scripture that’s what matters not debate and theologies and our own reasoning but the word of God and beief ,faith can only come from what he said

“So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.”
‭‭Romans‬ ‭10:17‬ ‭KJV‬


The thing is of the argument no matter what it is has to make me reject what God himself said , I’m not ever going to buy that argument and no one else should either Jesus want just another guy guessing about this stuff or wasn’t someone dependent on his own interpretation of scripture he’s the one who spoke it all to begin with so his answer is the right one
 

Pilgrimshope

Well-known member
Sep 2, 2020
14,175
5,727
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#89
Endured the trib?
Those that SUPPOSEDLY make it through the trib are saved?

Think about it.

Not even plausable


"""And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.”
‭‭Matthew‬ ‭24:29-31‬ ‭KJV"""

You sure you want to position yourself there?
Angels gather...not Jesus

They gather FROM HEAVEN ...not earth.

Definately points to a pretrib rapture with your quoted gathering while they are in heaven.
Yes. Amen
You are right
The gathering in heaven is after the trib. Those raptured pretrib are there, and are gathered postrib by angels IN HEAVEN for the horses IN HEAVEN to mount them for the return WITH JESUS TO EARTH.
Thanks for pointing that out.
“They gather FROM HEAVEN ...not earth.”

those bold letters don’t make this different

“And then shall he send his angels, and shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from the uttermost part of the earth to the uttermost part of heaven.”
‭‭Mark‬ ‭13:27‬ ‭KJV‬

maybe I’m assuming you have read some of the thkngs inpost back to you I’m not sure but I’ll leave it there a lot of pride popping up in the thread so, what I’ve said is there , and if anyone disagrees that’s perfectly fine
 

Adstar

Senior Member
Jul 24, 2016
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#91
2 Thessalonians 2:3 says: "Let no one deceive you in any way. For that day will not come, unless the rebellion comes first. . ." (ESV) I generally like the ESV, but I believe they got this one totally wrong. The NASB says correctly "apostasy"; the KJV and NKJV also "falling away."

The Greek, apostasia, doesn't mean rebellion; it means "stand away from," "leave or depart," or "leaving from a previous standing." It's not talking about an outright rebellion; it's talking about those who, either intentionally, or through laxity, have drifted away into false doctrine. They've left behind what once was considered sound Biblical authority and now embrace all kinds of things that have no scriptural authority whatsoever. In other words, the apostasy's here folks, it's come.
My Bible says::

Thessalonians 2: KJV
3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition..

Falling away can be seen as falling away from the truth and adopting false doctrines that causes one to reject The truth of Salvation by Faith in the Atonement of Jesus that pays the penalty for our sins.. Doctrines like work salvation would cause one to no longer believe that salvation is by Faith alone in Jesus alone through His Atonement alone..
 

Pilgrimshope

Well-known member
Sep 2, 2020
14,175
5,727
113
#92
My Bible says::

Thessalonians 2: KJV
3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition..

Falling away can be seen as falling away from the truth and adopting false doctrines that causes one to reject The truth of Salvation by Faith in the Atonement of Jesus that pays the penalty for our sins.. Doctrines like work salvation would cause one to no longer believe that salvation is by Faith alone in Jesus alone through His Atonement alone..
unless they accepted the completion of faith as truth

“For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also.”
‭‭James‬ ‭2:26‬ ‭KJV‬‬

faith is more than a word , it’s believing his word that teaches us the right works to walk in

Noah was saved by faith , God told him to build the ark because the earth would flood , so he then believes Gods word and did the works he was told would save him that’s faith hearing and believing the lord , and doing the things he’s said will save us because we have faith
 

Adstar

Senior Member
Jul 24, 2016
7,585
3,616
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#93
unless they accepted the completion of faith as truth

“For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also.”
‭‭James‬ ‭2:26‬ ‭KJV‬‬

faith is more than a word , it’s believing his word that teaches us the right works to walk in

Noah was saved by faith , God told him to build the ark because the earth would flood , so he then believes Gods word and did the works he was told would save him that’s faith hearing and believing the lord , and doing the things he’s said will save us because we have faith
A person having no works proves that they do not have the right Faith... So Good Works are what flows from one having Faith in the Atonement of Jesus.. Someone who believes Jesus will do good works..

James 2:26 not saying thatr Faith + Works pays the penalty our sin deserves ( the second death ) This is the false doctrine that Works salvationists want people to believe..

Our salvation is 100% secured by believing Jesus and trusting that the Atonement He secured on the cross paid the penalty for our sins...

Good Works are as treasures we build in heaven that will see us considered great in the kingdom of God.. There will be those who will be considered greater and lesser in the Kingdom of God..

Matthew 5: KJV
19 "Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven."

Whether one is greater in the Kingdom of heaven or least in the kingdom of heaven Both persons will be in the Kingdom of Heaven.. The one here called least is because they fell down in their handling of the scriptures so their Religious Works ( preaching the Word of God ) had failures.. But that person because they believed and trusted in the Atonement of the LORD Jesus will be saved and will be with Jesus in eternity never the less..
 

Pilgrimshope

Well-known member
Sep 2, 2020
14,175
5,727
113
#94
A person having no works proves that they do not have the right Faith... So Good Works are what flows from one having Faith in the Atonement of Jesus.. Someone who believes Jesus will do good works..

James 2:26 not saying thatr Faith + Works pays the penalty our sin deserves ( the second death ) This is the false doctrine that Works salvationists want people to believe..

Our salvation is 100% secured by believing Jesus and trusting that the Atonement He secured on the cross paid the penalty for our sins...

Good Works are as treasures we build in heaven that will see us considered great in the kingdom of God.. There will be those who will be considered greater and lesser in the Kingdom of God..

Matthew 5: KJV
19 "Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven."

Whether one is greater in the Kingdom of heaven or least in the kingdom of heaven Both persons will be in the Kingdom of Heaven.. The one here called least is because they fell down in their handling of the scriptures so their Religious Works ( preaching the Word of God ) had failures.. But that person because they believed and trusted in the Atonement of the LORD Jesus will be saved and will be with Jesus in eternity never the less..
so what’s first the chicken or the egg ? Either way we have to accept that we are to do the works that’s faith and why the works result when we let this part in its part of faith Tom learn that we are to walk upright in those works if we reject the works for us to do well
Never come to doing anything and then faith would be empty and dead

the reason is we reject the truth that our works are what we will be judged by , so when we build faith saying “ faith means there’s no works involved in salvstion “ it is going to be built looking like that and we’ll never do anything we don’t want to do because we didn’t let it in to change our faith

faith comes like this

“So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.”
‭‭Romans‬ ‭10:17‬ ‭KJV‬‬

so this is part of faith knowing and accepting it creates the right faith

“And why call ye me, Lord, Lord, and do not the things which I say?

Whosoever cometh to me, and heareth my sayings, and doeth them, I will shew you to whom he is like: He is like a man which built an house, and digged deep, and laid the foundation on a rock: and when the flood arose, the stream beat vehemently upon that house, and could not shake it: for it was founded upon a rock.

But he that heareth, and doeth not, is like a man that without a foundation built an house upon the earth; against which the stream did beat vehemently, and immediately it fell; and the ruin of that house was great.”
‭‭Luke‬ ‭6:46-49‬ ‭KJV‬‬

the faith in there is that of we hear and do the lords word , we’re never going to fall but if we don’t do then which we hear , we going to fall terribly

I don’t disagree faith comes first , faith should be taken in as is and throughout there is always this exhortation

“This is a faithful saying, and these things I will that thou affirm constantly, that they which have believed in God might be careful to maintain good works. These things are good and profitable unto men.”
‭‭Titus‬ ‭3:8‬ ‭KJV‬‬

it’s detrimental to avoid that part and insist anyone who mentions it is trying to save themselves apart from faith it’s just to at they are growing up and accepting the truth that our works determine the end

It’s not an optional thing because of this part it’s dire

“For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ; that every one may receive the things done in his body, according to that he hath done, whether it be good or bad. Knowing therefore the terror of the Lord, we persuade men; but we are made manifest unto God; and I trust also are made manifest in your consciences.”
‭‭2 Corinthians‬ ‭5:10-11‬ ‭KJV‬‬

Paul spoke about grace a bit , but he also taught the truth within his letters that go with it


“Be ye therefore followers of God, as dear children; And walk in love, as Christ also hath loved us, and hath given himself for us an offering and a sacrifice to God for a sweetsmelling savour. But fornication, and all uncleanness, or covetousness, let it not be once named among you, as becometh saints; Neither filthiness, nor foolish talking, nor jesting, which are not convenient: but rather giving of thanks. For this ye know, that no whoremonger, nor unclean person, nor covetous man, who is an idolater, hath any inheritance in the kingdom of Christ and of God. Let no man deceive you with vain words: for because of these things cometh the wrath of God upon the children of disobedience. Be not ye therefore partakers with them.”
‭‭Ephesians‬ ‭5:1-7‬ ‭KJV‬‬

we need to part from the bad world of the flesh and start walking in the world of the spirit and be wrong it’s fruit because it’s not that we’re saved either way it’s that we need to change our deeds along with our belief
 
Feb 16, 2017
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#95
That's not particularly impressive, largely because citing your credentials in place of making a reasonable argument is the worst form of copout. I was talking about the definition of "Legalism," and you resort to trying to impress me with how many forums you've been on. Get back with me when you can prove your Christian legitimacy by carrying on a respectful disagreement?
There is no disagreement.
Legalism is the bane of Christianity.
And as i told you, .. there are few non-legalists a christian forum, who are not self saving commandment obsessed legalists.

Listen carefully....the Catholic cult is 1.3 billion.. And This cult teaches that you can lose your salvation, and that Mary is Queen of heaven, and that water saves you.

Then you have 900 million Protestants. Of these, you have Baptists, and Presbyterians, who do not teach that you can lose your salvation.
And thats about it.
Assembly of God, Church of Christ, Methodist, Mormons, Jehovah's witnesses, United pentecostal, ... Church of the Nazarene.... all teach Legalism......>"Self Saving".....>"here is what i must do, to stay saved or i lose my Salvation".

Look at this forum.
There are 4-5 people here who are not ranting about works, commandments, law, and water baptism.
The rest, do.

So, dont let the facts get in the way of your opinion., randyk.
 
Feb 16, 2017
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#96
yep your trying to understand pauls letters by excluding the gospel I understand that’s why I recognized the doctrine
Paul's Gospel is THE Gospel.
Its the only one.
Its this....>"faith is counted as righteousness".....>"all that call on the name of Jesus, believing, shall be saved"........."justification by Faith, without works". "Christ died for our sins, shedding his blood, as our redemption and this redemption is offered as the gift of righteousness to all who will BELIEVE".

So, if you try to replace """"the Gift of Salvation" which is the GOSPEL.... with "works, water, commandment keeping" then you become a heretic, cursed.
Galatians 1:8
 
Jul 23, 2018
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#97
Does it matter, really, when someone believes they will be raptured?

.
So basically, do not watch wait or be ready?

Jesus said watch, wait, and be ready.

The 5 foolish virgins were also in the " when does not matter" dynamic.

The bible ends with pretrib rapture dialogue
 
Feb 16, 2017
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#98
hmmmm
Impressive
I will have to pick your brain.
Where are you now?
Florida

Im supposed to have a re-entrance review soon, so that i can go back home.. to Israel.

Thanks to Covid, going back to the middle east is quite a test.

Here is my home :
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Netanya.jpeg
 
Jul 23, 2018
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Florida

Im supposed to have a re-entrance review soon, so that i can go back home.. to Israel.

Thanks to Covid, going back to the middle east is quite a test.

Here is my home :
-
View attachment 230404
Are there older rabbis that a person could sit down with and talk bible? ( ot, and customs, folklore and such)