the standard of righteousness

  • Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.

    If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!

    To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.

randyk

Well-known member
Jan 14, 2021
902
268
63
Pacific NW USA
#1
God does not expect us to be perfect. But He does expect us to have a perfect standard, upon which to rely. Christ is that perfect standard, who has given us his Spirit. And if we live a life relying on that Spirit, it proves that we have accepted him as the right standard of righteousness.

The Law of Moses was given to Israel to establish a relationship with God, but could not provide a perfect standard for righteousness, because it was administered through imperfect priests. Because of their human flaws, they showed that their own works were flawed, and that human death remained a hindrance to unbroken relationship with God.

Christ came to fulfill Israel's hope in an eternal relationship with God. His own flawless life was not threatened by sin and death, and he could offer us his Spirit as the basis for obtaining this eternal relationship with God.

Now that Christ has come, we have an example of righteousness that is free of the curse of sin and death. We cannot attain perfection on our own, but we've been given the opportunity to live in dependence upon Christ's perfect Spirit to show our preference for God's perfect standard of righteousness.

In accepting Christ we accept God's basis for an eternal relationship with Himself. And it requires not just that we accept how Christ has lived, but that we recognize that he gave us his Spirit so that we may live a life dependent on his Spirit.

1 John 2.3 We know that we have come to know him if we keep his commands. 4 Whoever says, “I know him,” but does not do what he commands is a liar, and the truth is not in that person. 5 But if anyone obeys his word, love for God is truly made complete in them. This is how we know we are in him: 6 Whoever claims to live in him must live as Jesus did.
 

Pilgrimshope

Well-known member
Sep 2, 2020
14,148
5,722
113
#2
God does not expect us to be perfect. But He does expect us to have a perfect standard, upon which to rely. Christ is that perfect standard, who has given us his Spirit. And if we live a life relying on that Spirit, it proves that we have accepted him as the right standard of righteousness.

The Law of Moses was given to Israel to establish a relationship with God, but could not provide a perfect standard for righteousness, because it was administered through imperfect priests. Because of their human flaws, they showed that their own works were flawed, and that human death remained a hindrance to unbroken relationship with God.

Christ came to fulfill Israel's hope in an eternal relationship with God. His own flawless life was not threatened by sin and death, and he could offer us his Spirit as the basis for obtaining this eternal relationship with God.

Now that Christ has come, we have an example of righteousness that is free of the curse of sin and death. We cannot attain perfection on our own, but we've been given the opportunity to live in dependence upon Christ's perfect Spirit to show our preference for God's perfect standard of righteousness.

In accepting Christ we accept God's basis for an eternal relationship with Himself. And it requires not just that we accept how Christ has lived, but that we recognize that he gave us his Spirit so that we may live a life dependent on his Spirit.

1 John 2.3 We know that we have come to know him if we keep his commands. 4 Whoever says, “I know him,” but does not do what he commands is a liar, and the truth is not in that person. 5 But if anyone obeys his word, love for God is truly made complete in them. This is how we know we are in him: 6 Whoever claims to live in him must live as Jesus did.
amen

“And the Holy Ghost descended in a bodily shape like a dove upon him, and a voice came from heaven, which said, Thou art my beloved Son; in thee I am well pleased.”
‭‭Luke‬ ‭3:22‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“Behold my servant, whom I uphold; mine elect, in whom my soul delighteth; I have put my spirit upon him: he shall bring forth judgment to the Gentiles.

: he shall bring forth judgment unto truth. He shall not fail nor be discouraged, till he have set judgment in the earth: and the isles shall wait for his law.”
‭‭Isaiah‬ ‭42:1, 3-4‬ ‭

“Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.”
‭‭John‬ ‭5:24‬ ‭KJV‬‬


It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life.”
‭‭John‬ ‭6:63‬ ‭

“And I will put my spirit within you, and cause you to walk in my statutes, and ye shall keep my judgments, and do them.”
‭‭Ezekiel‬ ‭36:27‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost: Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you alway, even unto the end of the world. Amen.”
‭‭Matthew‬ ‭28:19-20‬ ‭KJV‬‬

Receiving the gospel he sent forth fills up our mind and heart with his truth
 

randyk

Well-known member
Jan 14, 2021
902
268
63
Pacific NW USA
#3
amen

“And the Holy Ghost descended in a bodily shape like a dove upon him, and a voice came from heaven, which said, Thou art my beloved Son; in thee I am well pleased.”
‭‭Luke‬ ‭3:22‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“Behold my servant, whom I uphold; mine elect, in whom my soul delighteth; I have put my spirit upon him: he shall bring forth judgment to the Gentiles.

: he shall bring forth judgment unto truth. He shall not fail nor be discouraged, till he have set judgment in the earth: and the isles shall wait for his law.”
‭‭Isaiah‬ ‭42:1, 3-4‬ ‭

“Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.”
‭‭John‬ ‭5:24‬ ‭KJV‬‬


It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life.”
‭‭John‬ ‭6:63‬ ‭

“And I will put my spirit within you, and cause you to walk in my statutes, and ye shall keep my judgments, and do them.”
‭‭Ezekiel‬ ‭36:27‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost: Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you alway, even unto the end of the world. Amen.”
‭‭Matthew‬ ‭28:19-20‬ ‭KJV‬‬

Receiving the gospel he sent forth fills up our mind and heart with his truth
Awesome! Thanks Pilgrim! :)
 

Blik

Senior Member
Dec 6, 2016
7,312
2,428
113
#5
God does not expect us to be perfect. But He does expect us to have a perfect standard, upon which to rely. Christ is that perfect standard, who has given us his Spirit. And if we live a life relying on that Spirit, it proves that we have accepted him as the right standard of righteousness.

The Law of Moses was given to Israel to establish a relationship with God, but could not provide a perfect standard for righteousness, because it was administered through imperfect priests. Because of their human flaws, they showed that their own works were flawed, and that human death remained a hindrance to unbroken relationship with God.

Christ came to fulfill Israel's hope in an eternal relationship with God. His own flawless life was not threatened by sin and death, and he could offer us his Spirit as the basis for obtaining this eternal relationship with God.

Now that Christ has come, we have an example of righteousness that is free of the curse of sin and death. We cannot attain perfection on our own, but we've been given the opportunity to live in dependence upon Christ's perfect Spirit to show our preference for God's perfect standard of righteousness.

In accepting Christ we accept God's basis for an eternal relationship with Himself. And it requires not just that we accept how Christ has lived, but that we recognize that he gave us his Spirit so that we may live a life dependent on his Spirit.

1 John 2.3 We know that we have come to know him if we keep his commands. 4 Whoever says, “I know him,” but does not do what he commands is a liar, and the truth is not in that person. 5 But if anyone obeys his word, love for God is truly made complete in them. This is how we know we are in him: 6 Whoever claims to live in him must live as Jesus did.[/QUOTE

It is difficult to truly understand the change that God made in the law with the new covenant and the birth of Christ, there is so much misunderstanding about it. Scripture speaks of the curse of the law, and some people even think that what God had given is now cursed, but God is Holy, God does not err, God would never give us something that is only to harm us.

The law in stone that was given in the old testament was not adequate, it needed to be improved, but the stone law was to guide us not to harm us. Sin harms us, the law simply tells us what sin is. The curse of the law is not the guidance the Lord gives out of love for us, the curse is the death that the sin it explains.

The law in stone as it was given in the old testament could be wrong if it was obeyed as a letter of the law. The true law is, and always was, the spirit of the law. Circumcision is a wonderful example. In the old testament the letter of the law, or the cutting of skin to symbolize the spirit of the law of circumcision was given as the law of circumcision. We are still to be circumcised but it is now a law of the heart not of the flesh. We are still to keep the Sabbath holy, so that still would mean we rest from the labor of providing for our fleshly self, but it is a law of the heart. If we use the law not to work to refuse help when needed by others, then we obey the letter of the law and disobey the law in our hearts.
 

randyk

Well-known member
Jan 14, 2021
902
268
63
Pacific NW USA
#6
It is difficult to truly understand the change that God made in the law with the new covenant and the birth of Christ, there is so much misunderstanding about it. Scripture speaks of the curse of the law, and some people even think that what God had given is now cursed, but God is Holy, God does not err, God would never give us something that is only to harm us.

The law in stone that was given in the old testament was not adequate, it needed to be improved, but the stone law was to guide us not to harm us. Sin harms us, the law simply tells us what sin is. The curse of the law is not the guidance the Lord gives out of love for us, the curse is the death that the sin it explains.

The law in stone as it was given in the old testament could be wrong if it was obeyed as a letter of the law. The true law is, and always was, the spirit of the law. Circumcision is a wonderful example. In the old testament the letter of the law, or the cutting of skin to symbolize the spirit of the law of circumcision was given as the law of circumcision. We are still to be circumcised but it is now a law of the heart not of the flesh. We are still to keep the Sabbath holy, so that still would mean we rest from the labor of providing for our fleshly self, but it is a law of the heart. If we use the law not to work to refuse help when needed by others, then we obey the letter of the law and disobey the law in our hearts.
I think you're making a mistake here, so let me try to untangle it, if I can. Yes, the Law was good, when it was in effect. It is in effect no longer. Certainly there is no Sabbath law. And certainly there is no Circumcision.

The Law was given only to Israel, and Israel failed the contract of the Law. When one of the parties fails in a contract, the whole contract fails. In this case, the whole nation failed the contract of the Law, and so the entire Law ended as a contract.

In the past God had restored the contract of the Law. But in the time of Christ, the contract was given up for good, and replaced with the contract of grace, which comes through Christ. One contract preserved a relationship with God without the hope of eternal life. The new contract provided an eternal relationship with God and eternal life.

The curse of the Law is simple. It is the judgment of God that all men who have a sin nature must die. The Law did not change man's sin nature, and so it amplified the fact that regardless of how much Israel obeyed God, the evidence of their sin nature as they kept the Law showed that they did not qualify for eternal life. No matter how much men kept the Law, they also showed their sin nature as they in some way transgressed the Law.

So the contract of the Law could not overcome the curse of sin, which is death, or the disqualification of man for eternal life. But the contract of grace, coming through Christ, could overcome the curse of sin, as we lean on Christ's spirituality to obtain his pardon.

The letter of the Law indicated the fact these were laws that amplified our sin nature. No matter how much men obeyed God's Law, that same Law revealed their sin nature, and thus their disqualification from eternal life. The letter killed because the Law had no way past its testimony to our sin nature.

The way of the Spirit, however, depends on our receipt of a gift, and not our performance by the letter of the Law. Thus, we can be justified by walking in the Spirit, when we receive from Christ his pardon of our sins.

Both Sabbath Law and Circumcision Law revealed the innate sin nature of Israel. As they practiced these laws, it showed that they agreed with God that the sin nature was bad, and that we should strive to overcome it. At the same time, these laws showed Israel that they were infected with sin, and required ways of dealing with it.

One way to deal with contaminated works was by showing that we need to cut it out of our lives, by illustrating it in circumcision. Another way is by resting from it, illustrated in Sabbath resting.

So these things, Circumcision and Sabbath Laws, were designed to show that Israel could walk with God while still be disqualified for eternal life. These things had to pass with Christ's new contract because when we live by Christ's Spirit there can be no condemnation by judgment of the Law. We are now judged only by our choice to live by Christ's Spirit, where there is a full pardon and eternal life.
 

Blik

Senior Member
Dec 6, 2016
7,312
2,428
113
#7
I think you're making a mistake here, so let me try to untangle it, if I can. Yes, the Law was good, when it was in effect. It is in effect no longer. Certainly there is no Sabbath law. And certainly there is no Circumcision.

The Law was given only to Israel, and Israel failed the contract of the Law. When one of the parties fails in a contract, the whole contract fails. In this case, the whole nation failed the contract of the Law, and so the entire Law ended as a contract.

In the past God had restored the contract of the Law. But in the time of Christ, the contract was given up for good, and replaced with the contract of grace, which comes through Christ. One contract preserved a relationship with God without the hope of eternal life. The new contract provided an eternal relationship with God and eternal life.

The curse of the Law is simple. It is the judgment of God that all men who have a sin nature must die. The Law did not change man's sin nature, and so it amplified the fact that regardless of how much Israel obeyed God, the evidence of their sin nature as they kept the Law showed that they did not qualify for eternal life. No matter how much men kept the Law, they also showed their sin nature as they in some way transgressed the Law.

So the contract of the Law could not overcome the curse of sin, which is death, or the disqualification of man for eternal life. But the contract of grace, coming through Christ, could overcome the curse of sin, as we lean on Christ's spirituality to obtain his pardon.

The letter of the Law indicated the fact these were laws that amplified our sin nature. No matter how much men obeyed God's Law, that same Law revealed their sin nature, and thus their disqualification from eternal life. The letter killed because the Law had no way past its testimony to our sin nature.

The way of the Spirit, however, depends on our receipt of a gift, and not our performance by the letter of the Law. Thus, we can be justified by walking in the Spirit, when we receive from Christ his pardon of our sins.

Both Sabbath Law and Circumcision Law revealed the innate sin nature of Israel. As they practiced these laws, it showed that they agreed with God that the sin nature was bad, and that we should strive to overcome it. At the same time, these laws showed Israel that they were infected with sin, and required ways of dealing with it.

One way to deal with contaminated works was by showing that we need to cut it out of our lives, by illustrating it in circumcision. Another way is by resting from it, illustrated in Sabbath resting.

So these things, Circumcision and Sabbath Laws, were designed to show that Israel could walk with God while still be disqualified for eternal life. These things had to pass with Christ's new contract because when we live by Christ's Spirit there can be no condemnation by judgment of the Law. We are now judged only by our choice to live by Christ's Spirit, where there is a full pardon and eternal life.
When the law was in effect, but now we have no law? You don't make sense. So many things you say makes no sense. You seem to think Israel is so powerful that a nation can change God. God created us, our world, and the law that rules. Man is subject to God, God rules nations.

You limit the law to having only one purpose, even.

All scripture is truth from Paul to the 119th Psalm. That psalm tells a very different story from the one you present, that psalm is truth.
 

JaumeJ

Senior Member
Jul 2, 2011
21,429
6,707
113
#8
Read the Ten Commandments. Is there some kind of error in them? Do they reflect love in their meaning?

I am saved by nothing I do, only by grace, but to ddeliberately ignore or nullify these precepts, which by the way, should be engraved on the hearts of all who believe Jesus Yeshua., may one be interpreted as saying the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit are in error.
I will not declare this to anyone for it is antiChrisst. These Ten have only been explained nod not abolished. What an horrible thought. It is apostasy at best.

Praise, obey and believe God, for He is worthy, not we.
 

randyk

Well-known member
Jan 14, 2021
902
268
63
Pacific NW USA
#9
When the law was in effect, but now we have no law? You don't make sense. So many things you say makes no sense. You seem to think Israel is so powerful that a nation can change God. God created us, our world, and the law that rules. Man is subject to God, God rules nations.

You limit the law to having only one purpose, even.

All scripture is truth from Paul to the 119th Psalm. That psalm tells a very different story from the one you present, that psalm is truth.
There is a major flaw in your thinking about the Law. You make the assumption that God's Law is dependent on the particular covenant of the Law of Moses. It isn't. God's Law preceded the Law of Moses. God's Law was there from the beginning when He required of Man that he live in God's image and likeness. That is a Law!

And so, God's Law extends past the Law of Moses as well. When the contract of the Law was broken and annulled, God's Law continued, albeit in a different form. It was the same form as it was when God created Man.

The biggest misnomer about this is that some believe the Law of Moses was to be "for all your generations" in the sense that it was to last forever. But that's not what "for all your generations" means.

It simply meant that the Law of Moses was to have continual application until such time that it was rendered broken or ineffective. It was to be an unbroken relationship between God and Israel until such time as that relationship could otherwise obtain eternal status.

Obviously, once a contract is broken, it no longer continues. It is no longer "for all your generations."

There is now a new and different basis for a relationship between God and Israel, as well as for a relationship between God and all nations, that is not dependent on a Law that can be broken. But it continues to have a Law. God's Law does not require a continuation of the Law of Moses!
 

Aaron56

Well-known member
Jul 12, 2021
2,843
1,637
113
#10
The Law was given because of transgressions, not to develop a relationship between God and anyone. The Law served its purpose: preserve the Jews so that the Messiah could come forth from the lineage of Abraham. This fulfilled the promise God gave to Abraham 430 years before the Law was given. That promise was the appearing, in the world, of the covenant God made with Himself from the foundation of the earth.

Had the Hebrews at Sinai gone up into the presence of God, the Law would have never been given. They would have been changed from within and a nation of royal priests would have arisen from them at that time. But, they sent Moses instead, and told him to listen to God for them. So, because they were afraid and did not go into the presence of God, they were given the Law. Then, only one tribe out of 12 was ascribed the priestly responsibilities, the Levites.

The Law served as a boundary or limit to the consequences of sin, so that death could not, by legal grounds, wipe out all the Jews.

Today, "it is finished." The Messiah came and defeated death and He now gives life to all who receive Him.

But what of His commandments?

"And this is His commandment: that we should believe in the name of His Son, Jesus Christ, and we should love one another just as He commanded us."

They are:
1) Believe in the name of His Son, Jesus Christ. The Son, alone, connects us to the Father.
2) Love one another as He loved us. He loved us by giving his life to the Father so that the Father might live through Him.
 

randyk

Well-known member
Jan 14, 2021
902
268
63
Pacific NW USA
#11
Read the Ten Commandments. Is there some kind of error in them? Do they reflect love in their meaning?

I am saved by nothing I do, only by grace, but to ddeliberately ignore or nullify these precepts, which by the way, should be engraved on the hearts of all who believe Jesus Yeshua., may one be interpreted as saying the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit are in error.
I will not declare this to anyone for it is antiChrisst. These Ten have only been explained nod not abolished. What an horrible thought. It is apostasy at best.

Praise, obey and believe God, for He is worthy, not we.
You are only saved by the exclusive work of Christ's atonement. But you aren't going to get saved if you do nothing!
1) You have to accept Christ at the atonement for your sin.
2) You have to accept Christ's Spirit as the guide for your whole life.
3) You have to obey the call to live by the Spirit of Christ.

If you accept what Christ has done, but refuse to live by it, then how can you say you're "saved?"

The 10 Commandments are abolished *as a contract.* They are not abolished as principles of human morality. One of these 10 is the command to keep the Sabbath holy. We are no longer under a contract requiring observance of Sabbath! We are under a new contract that does not exclusively belong to the Jews. We are fulfilling God's promise to Abraham, to help all nations become the "People of God."
 

JaumeJ

Senior Member
Jul 2, 2011
21,429
6,707
113
#12
The Law was given because of transgressions, not to develop a relationship between God and anyone. The Law served its purpose: preserve the Jews so that the Messiah could come forth from the lineage of Abraham. This fulfilled the promise God gave to Abraham 430 years before the Law was given. That promise was the appearing, in the world, of the covenant God made with Himself from the foundation of the earth.

Had the Hebrews at Sinai gone up into the presence of God, the Law would have never been given. They would have been changed from within and a nation of royal priests would have arisen from them at that time. But, they sent Moses instead, and told him to listen to God for them. So, because they were afraid and did not go into the presence of God, they were given the Law. Then, only one tribe out of 12 was ascribed the priestly responsibilities, the Levites.

The Law served as a boundary or limit to the consequences of sin, so that death could not, by legal grounds, wipe out all the Jews.

Today, "it is finished." The Messiah came and defeated death and He now gives life to all who receive Him.

But what of His commandments?

"And this is His commandment: that we should believe in the name of His Son, Jesus Christ, and we should love one another just as He commanded us."

They are:
1) Believe in the name of His Son, Jesus Christ. The Son, alone, connects us to the Father.
2) Love one another as He loved us. He loved us by giving his life to the Father so that the Father might live through Him.
Perhaps the following will make sense to you. When I was first given to believe, I would go to the Rockies to read and share what I read with otherers.
One night as I slept, I felt thee warmth of the Presence of the Father throughout the night and a voice came to me while I slept saying, "Now the Children of Israel, while they were in the wilderness were disobedient, and by their disobedience Salvation was gained by the nations."
You post reminds me of this very much. Thank you and may you be blessed for your work.
 

randyk

Well-known member
Jan 14, 2021
902
268
63
Pacific NW USA
#13
The Law was given because of transgressions, not to develop a relationship between God and anyone.
That is false, and a pure assertion without proof. Nothing is more certain in the Bible than that God gave the Law to Israel to preserve a relationship between Israel and Himself!

Exo 19.5 Now if you obey me fully and keep my covenant, then out of all nations you will be my treasured possession. Although the whole earth is mine, 6 you will be for me a kingdom of priests and a holy nation.’ These are the words you are to speak to the Israelites.”

The Law was a 2-fold testimony, 1) that God enabled Israel to have a relationship with Himself despite the presence of sin and death, and 2) that Israel had a sin nature that would lead to death and that would prevent them from eating from the Tree of Life. The Law gave rules for Israel to live by in order to please God. At the same time, those same rules proved that Israel could not perfectly keep them, and regularly needed cleansing due to their contaminated ways.

The Law served its purpose: preserve the Jews so that the Messiah could come forth from the lineage of Abraham. This fulfilled the promise God gave to Abraham 430 years before the Law was given. That promise was the appearing, in the world, of the covenant God made with Himself from the foundation of the earth.
God also made the covenant with Abraham--not just with Himself!

Had the Hebrews at Sinai gone up into the presence of God, the Law would have never been given. They would have been changed from within and a nation of royal priests would have arisen from them at that time. But, they sent Moses instead, and told him to listen to God for them. So, because they were afraid and did not go into the presence of God, they were given the Law. Then, only one tribe out of 12 was ascribed the priestly responsibilities, the Levites.
You're reading way too much into this. Israel wasn't allowed to go up with Moses, since they lacked maturity. It was an indication that spirituality was deeper than just a covenant agreement. A lasting relationship between God and men had to be established, just as it had been between God and Moses.

The Law of Moses never was a strictly external Law. It just couldn't change the reality that Israel had a Sin Nature. The letter of the Law confirmed this, and could not change this reality.

The Law served as a boundary or limit to the consequences of sin, so that death could not, by legal grounds, wipe out all the Jews.
Yes, it was designed to keep the nation in compliance with God's Law so that the nation would be sustained by God's grace. Israel never was and never would be perfect. And so, the Law contained measures to contain sin before it got out of hand. Once the nation had allowed sin to flourish in the whole nation, the covenant of God with the nation would be abrogated, and the people would be sent out of their land.

Today, "it is finished." The Messiah came and defeated death and He now gives life to all who receive Him.

But what of His commandments?

"And this is His commandment: that we should believe in the name of His Son, Jesus Christ, and we should love one another just as He commanded us."

They are:
1) Believe in the name of His Son, Jesus Christ. The Son, alone, connects us to the Father.
2) Love one another as He loved us. He loved us by giving his life to the Father so that the Father might live through Him.
Agreed! :)
 

JaumeJ

Senior Member
Jul 2, 2011
21,429
6,707
113
#14
It is clear that you are hung up on the Sabbath.

Perhaps one day you will understand that observing the Ten and the love contined in them cannot be an affront to our Lord, Jesus Yeshua. When God says the Seventh day is now the first, then I will hear , but not men saying this is what He says.

Asfor observing the Sabbath, Christians have always called their day of Worship the Sabbath, so as long as they believe it is in the sight of God, it is just fine. Just as my day of worship and dres will always be the day set by God, Himself.

As for 1, 2, 3, 4 and 5, in my faith I may say done, done, done, done, done. Those with the will of God inscribed upon thier hearts truly know this.
 

Aaron56

Well-known member
Jul 12, 2021
2,843
1,637
113
#15
I wrote:

Aaron56 said:
The Law was given because of transgressions, not to develop a relationship between God and anyone.


To which randyk wrote:

That is false, and a pure assertion without proof. Nothing is more certain in the Bible than that God gave the Law to Israel to preserve a relationship between Israel and Himself!
I didn't read any more of your post after that first line.

To conclude: I actually have what I wrote on good authority:

Paul wrote in Galatians:

Perhaps you have some clarifying questions?
 

Nehemiah6

Senior Member
Jul 18, 2017
26,074
13,776
113
#16
God does not expect us to be perfect. But He does expect us to have a perfect standard, upon which to rely. Christ is that perfect standard, who has given us his Spirit. And if we live a life relying on that Spirit, it proves that we have accepted him as the right standard of righteousness.
1. The standard of righteousness is the perfect righteousness of God and Christ.

2. Since no human being can meet this standard in order to enter Heaven, God Himself has made a way for all who believe on Christ to be deemed righteous (which you have failed to mention above). That is called justification by grace through faith, and is accompanied by imputing righteousness to the sinner who fully trusts and believes in and on Christ, and His finished work of redemption.

3. Those who are "in Christ" are deemed to be as righteous as Christ. This is only possible because of the grace of God and what Christ accomplished in His death, burial, and resurrection.

4. At the same time those who have been justified must also be sanctified. Which is why God commands the saints to live soberly, righteously, and godly in this present world (Titus 2). Justification does not mean that you are free to sin. Rather it means that you have been freed from the power of sin through the gift of the Holy Spirit.

Imputed righteousness is a spiritual truth which even many Christians are unable to grasp. But unless we see what God offers through Christ, we will never fully understand the grace of God. Please study Romans 4 and other similar passages.
 

Aaron56

Well-known member
Jul 12, 2021
2,843
1,637
113
#17
Perhaps the following will make sense to you. When I was first given to believe, I would go to the Rockies to read and share what I read with otherers.
One night as I slept, I felt thee warmth of the Presence of the Father throughout the night and a voice came to me while I slept saying, "Now the Children of Israel, while they were in the wilderness were disobedient, and by their disobedience Salvation was gained by the nations."
You post reminds me of this very much. Thank you and may you be blessed for your work.
Yes, of course. That is a very succinct understanding and right to the point. :)
 

Aaron56

Well-known member
Jul 12, 2021
2,843
1,637
113
#18
Exo 19. Now if you obey me fully and keep my covenant, then out of all nations you will be my treasured possession. Although the whole earth is mine, you will be for me a kingdom of priests and a holy nation.’ These are the words you are to speak to the Israelites.”
Oh, I see.

You think God is saying this in forbearance to the law He is about to give. This is the error and it is a common one. I mean no disrespect.

No, the only covenant active at that time God spoke that verse was the one between God and God. The promise of which was given to Abraham. This covenant was revealed 430 years prior to Sinai. The people were to obey God fully (I'll get to this in a bit). This is what their patriarch demonstrated: Abraham believed God (the evidence was in his behavior) and it was credited to him as righteousness.

Furthermore, ask yourself this: is "a kingdom of priests and a holy nation" what the Jews received? No. Only 1/12 of the Jews were made priests by the Law and we know that the nation was far from Holy.

[Be back in a sec. Have to fetch my burrito for lunch.]
 

Pilgrimshope

Well-known member
Sep 2, 2020
14,148
5,722
113
#19
I wrote:





To which randyk wrote:



I didn't read any more of your post after that first line.

To conclude: I actually have what I wrote on good authority:

Paul wrote in Galatians:



Perhaps you have some clarifying questions?
“And they made a calf in those days, and offered sacrifice unto the idol, and rejoiced in the works of their own hands. Then God turned, and gave them up to worship the host of heaven;…
‭‭Acts‬ ‭7:41-42‬ ‭

After Moses intercedes when they worshipped the calf and God is going to destroy them

“And the Lord said unto Moses, Whosoever hath sinned against me, him will I blot out of my book. Therefore now go, lead the people unto the place of which I have spoken unto thee: behold, mine Angel shall go before thee: nevertheless in the day when I visit I will visit their sin upon them.”
‭‭Exodus‬ ‭32:33-34‬ ‭KJV‬‬

Behold, I send an Angel before thee, to keep thee in the way, and to bring thee into the place which I have prepared. Beware of him, and obey his voice, provoke him not; for he will not pardon your transgressions: for my name is in him.”
‭‭Exodus‬ ‭23:20-21‬ ‭KJV‬

“Jesus Christ the same yesterday, and to day, and for ever.”
‭‭Hebrews‬ ‭13:8‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“Let the wicked forsake his way, and the unrighteous man his thoughts: and let him return unto the Lord, and he will have mercy upon him; and to our God, for he will abundantly pardon.”
‭‭Isaiah‬ ‭55:7‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“Knowing this, that the law is not made for a righteous man, but for the lawless and disobedient, for the ungodly and for sinners, for unholy and profane, for murderers of fathers and murderers of mothers, for manslayers, For whoremongers, for them that defile themselves with mankind, for menstealers, for liars, for perjured persons, and if there be any other thing that is contrary to sound doctrine;”
‭‭1 Timothy‬ ‭1:9-10‬ ‭KJV‬‬

God came to them and spoke and they shattered his commandment before Moses even received the tables of testimony he then turned them over to angels who know not forgiveness. Until his words began to be fulfilled in Christ
 

Aaron56

Well-known member
Jul 12, 2021
2,843
1,637
113
#20
Wow, I ate that too fast.

Any way...

We have to go to Deuteronomy 5 to see what fully transpired at Sinai. Please bear with me.

Deuteronomy 5:1-5 And Moses called all Israel, and said to them: “Hear, O Israel, the statutes and judgments which I speak in your hearing today, that you may learn them and be careful to observe them. 2 The Lord our God made a covenant with us in Horeb. 3 The Lord did not make this covenant with our fathers, but with us, those who are here today, all of us who are alive.

So, we know this was not a covenant made with the forefathers of the people at Sinai. It was a covenant that was made with only the people who gathered at the mountain. This was the Law.

4 The Lord talked with you face to face on the mountain from the midst of the fire. 5 I stood between the Lord and you at that time, to declare to you the word of the Lord; for you were afraid because of the fire, and you did not go up the mountain.

The people did not go up the mountain with Moses. They were called to come up but they were afraid and so they sent Moses to hear God for them and report back. This type of administration was also given in the Law. The Levites would intercede for the people.

Let's skip to verse 23: “So it was, when you heard the voice from the midst of the darkness, while the mountain was burning with fire, that you came near to me, all the heads of your tribes and your elders. 24 And you said: ‘Surely the Lord our God has shown us His glory and His greatness, and we have heard His voice from the midst of the fire. We have seen this day that God speaks with man; yet he still lives. 25 Now therefore, why should we die? For this great fire will consume us; if we hear the voice of the Lord our God anymore, then we shall die. 26 For who is there of all flesh who has heard the voice of the living God speaking from the midst of the fire, as we have, and lived? 27 You go near and hear all that the Lord our God may say, and tell us all that the Lord our God says to you, and we will hear and do it.

Instead of going up, with Moses leading the way, they were afraid. The fire would have indeed consumed them, but not in the way they feared. They would have been changed like 2 Corinthians 3:15-18 "But even to this day, when Moses is read, a veil lies on their heart. Nevertheless when one turns to the Lord, the veil is taken away. Now the Lord is the Spirit; and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is liberty. But we all, with unveiled face, beholding as in a mirror the glory of the Lord, are being transformed into the same image from glory to glory, just as by the Spirit of the Lord.

Verse 28 continues: “Then the Lord heard the voice of your words when you spoke to me, and the Lord said to me: ‘I have heard the voice of the words of this people which they have spoken to you. They are right in all that they have spoken. 29 Oh, that they had such a heart in them that they would fear Me and always keep all My commandments, that it might be well with them and with their children forever! 30 Go and say to them, “Return to your tents.”

"Return to your tents" was God's contrition to their transgressions. And, because they sent someone to hear God for them and report back, God instituted a priesthood that would do just the same: represent the people before God, the Levites. They ended up not being vested in the original offer because they would have to go up into the presence of Good, a fact that Moses said that they did not do. The presence of God that would have transformed them. Their failure to go into the presence of God is what, in fact, resulted in them being given something other than the original gift. They were then not given the covenant of sonship; they were given a covenant of Law.

What they got was a far cry from what God intended. They received the Law wherein the priests of Levi represented the people before God.

What He wanted to give was the promise of sonship; where the priests are of the order of Melchizedek and they represent God before the people.

Aaron56