A forgotten point about the four gospels

Pilgrimshope · Sep 4, 2021

it’s also where you stopped There in your quote that’s confusing you , Paul is testifying that Gentiles are now let into the kingdom with Israel

“That the Gentiles should be fellowheirs, and of the same body, and partakers of his promise in Christ by the gospel:”
‭‭Ephesians‬ ‭3:6‬ ‭KJV‬‬

do you see where it’s about inheritance ? how Gentiles has become fellow heirs with Israel ? That’s why Paul is saying stuff like this in the same epistle a few paragraphs later

“But fornication, and all uncleanness, or covetousness, let it not be once named among you, as becometh saints; Neither filthiness, nor foolish talking, nor jesting, which are not convenient: but rather giving of thanks.

For this ye know, that no whoremonger, nor unclean person, nor covetous man, who is an idolater, hath any inheritance in the kingdom of Christ and of God.

Let no man deceive you with vain words: for because of these things cometh the wrath of God upon the children of disobedience. Be not ye therefore partakers with them.”
‭‭Ephesians‬ ‭5:3-7‬ ‭KJV‬‬

That doesn’t seem to be Paul saying Jesus does and rose the end and the kingdom isn’t for you but maybe I’m way off and oil wasn’t saying anything but a few quotes that seem conditionless

Gideon300 · Sep 4, 2021

Pilgrimshope said:

Sometimes we forget that the gospels were written not before the church began , but when the church was in full swing and the Holy Ghost was still exalted among believers .

The point is when we try to make the four gospels something that isn’t the church doctrine were eliminating the foundations of church doctrine. The gospels were written as the apostles and early church began to age and in order to carry out the commission they simply recorded in scripture the things Jesus had taught them , to go teach the world about him and of him.

there seems to always be a reason we don’t want to accept the four gospels and instead we want to try to learn from the epistles which is a great thing but the epistles are only companions to help us understand the gospel

Paul for instance what did he teach the Ephesians ? Is it his Ephesians letter that was thier doctrine ? Or did Paul spend two years in person preaching and teaching them the gospel and later wrote a single epistle correcting and exhorting and comforting them ?

the epistles are just a glimpse into what Paul was teaching most of his writings are to churches he helped establish in person with men like Luke and barnabus , Apollos and Priscilla and aquilla, Timothy and mark

Paul sent letters from far away places he was establishing other cities in the gospel and hearing thkngs and sending letters to help keep them following the gospel. His epistles were never the source of doctrine for anyone they were companions and additions to the gospels. To help us remain and be comforted and edified further

if we could hear Paul’s in Morrison message it would fully include the gospels as the foundation and irrevocable word of Christ.

it’s not a good idea to remove Jesus words and replace them with Paul’s epistles we don’t even have a clear image in those few short and specifically designed letters sent to correct , rebuke and encourage the church they are wonderful but are companions to the gospel not the replacements

consider when people are insisting on Paul’s letters being everything , what they really are saying about Jesus

I'm not sure that I understand your point. The gospels were the last books of the NT to be written. I don't see anything inconsistent between what Peter, Paul and James wrote and the words of Jesus. The commission given to the disciples was to teach everything that the Lord Jesus taught them. It seemed to work out. The early church flourished.

"Go in my Name". That's what the disciples turned apostles did. Paul honoured and glorified Lord Jesus in all that he said and did. The only letter that does not mention Jesus is James.

Pilgrimshope · Sep 4, 2021

Gideon300 said:

I agree with you actually pretty much to a tee . My point is that the gospels can’t be removed from our doctrine .

the point of writing this post and mentioning they were written as late as they were , is because many try to remove them from church doctrine .

so the value of putting the gospels first is like this

“That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.”
‭‭John‬ ‭3:6‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life.”
‭‭John‬ ‭6:63‬ ‭KJV‬‬

much more along those lines but to my point when we start there and accept that part then the epistles do this

“There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.

For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death.

For they that are after the flesh do mind the things of the flesh; but they that are after the Spirit the things of the Spirit.

For to be carnally minded is death; but to be spiritually minded is life and peace. But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his. And if Christ be in you, the body is dead because of sin; but the Spirit is life because of righteousness.

But if the Spirit of him that raised up Jesus from the dead dwell in you, he that raised up Christ from the dead shall also quicken your mortal bodies by his Spirit that dwelleth in you.

Therefore, brethren, we are debtors, not to the flesh, to live after the flesh. For if ye live after the flesh, ye shall die: but if ye through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the body, ye shall live. For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God.”
‭‭Romans‬ ‭8:1-2, 5-6, 9-14‬ ‭KJV‬‬

if you take away the gospel we don’t have any source of the spirit to follow

Jesus word has this ability

“For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart.”
‭‭Hebrews‬ ‭4:12‬ ‭KJV‬‬

to quicken meansto make alive or active “
the gospel is the only time ever that God the father , son and Holy Ghost were walking among man teaching them gently his word calling us as his children into the light in one man dwelt the fullness of God for only a short time from Jesus baptism when he receive the holy soirit and began preaching HIS WORD to anyone who would believe

his doctrine has the power to change us when we remove the gospels the epistles are like jangling because they aren’t going to make any real sense they are all witnessing the gospel of you take away that doctrine there’s nothing to witness or expound

I believe from Matthew 1 to revelation is accepted but the gospels are the source of all of it .

I think you probably agree with that part but it’s only a guess from some of your other posts

Pilgrimshope · Sep 5, 2021

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John146 said:

Jesus word and the blood shed on the cross you mean ?

How were these folk saved and forgiven since they hadn’t received the spirit ?

“Wherefore I say unto thee, Her sins, which are many, are forgiven; for she loved much: but to whom little is forgiven, the same loveth little. And he said unto her, Thy sins are forgiven.

And they that sat at meat with him began to say within themselves, Who is this that forgiveth sins also?

And he said to the woman, Thy faith hath saved thee; go in peace.”
‭‭Luke‬ ‭7:47-50‬ ‭KJV‬‬

Is her salvation somehow void because he hasn’t died yet ? Or is his word what is able to do forgive and save ?

“And when he saw their faith, he said unto him, Man, thy sins are forgiven thee.”
‭‭Luke‬ ‭5:20‬ ‭KJV

the cross hadn’t appeared yet had it ? Seems they are saved and forgiven by the living Gods word .

Nehemiah6 · Sep 5, 2021

Pilgrimshope said:

You are sadly mistaken. The epistles are as much the Word of God as the Gospels. They supplement the Gospels are are an integral part of Scripture. The Gospels are but a fraction of all that happened during the life of Christ on earth. But they are critical to the Christian faith.

Pilgrimshope · Sep 5, 2021

Nehemiah6 said:

Yeah I never have said they aren’t of God and have said several times they are important

what I did say is they are not equal and in no way supplement the gospel

the apostles were preaching the thkngs they wrote in the four gospels . The epistles are short letters sent back to the chirches for exhortation not equal at all consider the Ephesians letter

Paul’s ministry to Ephesus was this which we don’t have any record of three years preaching the gospel of the kingdom to them

“And from Miletus he sent to Ephesus, and called the elders of the church. And when they were come to him, he said unto them, Ye know, from the first day that I came into Asia, after what manner I have been with you at all seasons, Serving the Lord with all humility of mind, and with many tears, and temptations, which befell me by the lying in wait of the Jews:

And how I kept back nothing that was profitable unto you, but have shewed you, and have taught you publickly, and from house to house, Testifying both to the Jews, and also to the Greeks, repentance toward God, and faith toward our Lord Jesus Christ.

And now, behold, I know that ye all, among whom I have gone preaching the kingdom of God, shall see my face no more. Wherefore I take you to record this day, that I am pure from the blood of all men. For I have not shunned to declare unto you all the counsel of God. Therefore watch, and remember, that by the space of three years I ceased not to warn every one night and day with tears.”
‭‭Acts‬ ‭20:17-21, 25-27, 31‬ ‭KJV‬‬

Now are we to believe Paul wrote three years of doctrine in a single letter sent from prison ? Or was the epistle sent to exhort them to remain on the gospel of the kingdom he spent three years preaching and establishing among them ?

Pilgrimshope · Sep 5, 2021

Nehemiah6 said:

the gospel that records Jesus Christ and his ministry is a fragment ?

I thought that’s what they were all preaching for the rest of thier life ?

“Paul, a servant of Jesus Christ, called to be an apostle, separated unto the gospel of God, Concerning his Son Jesus Christ our Lord,

which was made of the seed of David according to the flesh; And declared to be the Son of God with power, according to the spirit of holiness, by the resurrection from the dead:

By whom we have received grace and apostleship, for obedience to the faith among all nations, for his name: Among whom are ye also the called of Jesus Christ:”
‭‭Romans‬ ‭1:1, 3-6‬ ‭KJV‬‬

I’d say you might be mistaken

Nehemiah6 · Sep 5, 2021

Pilgrimshope said:

And that is where you are sadly mistaken. If the epistles were not meant to supplement the Gospels, they would not be in the NT.

Pilgrimshope · Sep 5, 2021

Nehemiah6 said:

naw you are saying that I’m saying they aren’t important again they are no conflict there

they don’t replace the gospels and I think you see that.

the epistles are only a glimpse into what the apostles taught the four gospels that they wrote nearing thier ends on earth are what they went about preaching .

They weren’t sending out letters and then everyone who believes the letters were saved they were writing letters of exhortation to people who believes the gospel often because of issues they heard about like Galatians or Corinthians

they don’t establish our doctrine they help us understand the gospels that’s thier importance

John146 · Sep 5, 2021

Pilgrimshope said:

[

Jesus word and the blood shed on the cross you mean ?

How were these folk saved and forgiven since they hadn’t received the spirit ?

“Wherefore I say unto thee, Her sins, which are many, are forgiven; for she loved much: but to whom little is forgiven, the same loveth little. And he said unto her, Thy sins are forgiven.

And they that sat at meat with him began to say within themselves, Who is this that forgiveth sins also?

And he said to the woman, Thy faith hath saved thee; go in peace.”
‭‭Luke‬ ‭7:47-50‬ ‭KJV‬‬

Is her salvation somehow void because he hasn’t died yet ? Or is his word what is able to do forgive and save ?

“And when he saw their faith, he said unto him, Man, thy sins are forgiven thee.”
‭‭Luke‬ ‭5:20‬ ‭KJV

the cross hadn’t appeared yet had it ? Seems they are saved and forgiven by the living Gods word .

Jesus has the power to forgive sins based upon her faith. Under the law, sins could be forgiven through animal sacrifices. That doesn’t mean they were washed by the blood of Christ.

phil36 · Sep 5, 2021

Dino246 said:

While the four gospels were written during the infancy of the church, and not before it, they are not presented as doctrinal statements but rather as "histories" of what happened before, during, and shortly after Jesus' life on earth. Much of Jesus' teaching is to Jews in the context of the OT law. Gentile Christians are not and never were under the law. We need to examine the gospels to determine which parts are teaching for the Church and which parts are narrative of and for that particular context.

Which parts of the Gospels do suggest we not bother with?

Pilgrimshope · Sep 5, 2021

John146 said:

animal sacrifice takes away sin ?

“For it is not possible that the blood of bulls and of goats should take away sins.”
‭‭Hebrews‬ ‭10:4‬ ‭

your arguments are getting very circular you should consider who Jesus Christ is brother. As far as you keep insisting it was the law even though I’m certain you won’t accept this here you go

“The law and the prophets were until John:

since that time the kingdom of God is preached, and every man presseth into it.”
‭‭Luke‬ ‭16:16‬ ‭KJV‬‬

when John baptized Jesus and Jesus came forth saying this

“Now after that John was put in prison, Jesus came into Galilee, preaching the gospel of the kingdom of God, And saying, The time is fulfilled, and the kingdom of God is at hand: repent ye, and believe the gospel.”
‭‭Mark‬ ‭1:14-15‬ ‭KJV‬‬

that is the new covenant beginning to be spoken and it will be preached until this time

“And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come.”
‭‭Matthew‬ ‭24:14‬ ‭KJV‬‬

you should come into the gospel and believe you will realize how much better it is than the ideas floating in the world

Dino246 · Sep 5, 2021

phil36 said:

Who are you asking? Your question doesn't relate even remotely to my post.

Dino246 · Sep 5, 2021

Pilgrimshope said:

Methinks you have used the wrong word...

supplement
verb

1. add an extra element or amount to: "I looked for a part-time job to supplement my income"

supplant
/səˈplɑːnt/

verb

1. supersede and replace: "domestic production has been supplanted by imports and jobs have been lost"

(source: Oxford Dictionaries)

Pilgrimshope · Sep 5, 2021

Dino246 said:

yeah I’m not very smart when it comes to dictionaries so if I didn’t understand the term I sincerely apologize

there’s nothing on earth that can replace or equal the gospel of Jesus Christ is my only point. We don’t ignore the gospel for the sake of the epistles .

again though of I misunderstood that’s on me my bad , and I sincerely apologize

John146 · Sep 5, 2021

Pilgrimshope said:

Please read my posts and study before responding. Animal sacrifices could forgive sins, but not take them away. Read through the book of Leviticus. I’ll give you one of many examples.

Leviticus 4:35 And he shall take away all the fat thereof, as the fat of the lamb is taken away from the sacrifice of the peace offerings; and the priest shall burn them upon the altar, according to the offerings made by fire unto the Lord: and the priest shall make an atonement for his sin that he hath committed, and it shall be forgiven him.

Sins could be forgiven but not cleared. Only the blood of Jesus can take away sins. Big difference.

Exodus 34:7 Keeping mercy for thousands, forgiving iniquity and transgression and sin, and that will by no means clear the guilty; visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children, and upon the children's children, unto the third and to the fourth generation.

John146 · Sep 5, 2021

Pilgrimshope said:

And yet, the gospel that Paul preached, the gospel of the grace of God, was preached to all the world. It went out to all nations. It was preached to every creature under heaven. See Colossians 1:5-6,23 and Romans 16:24-26.

Dino246 · Sep 5, 2021

Pilgrimshope said:

No apology necessary. If you learned something, that's great.

I'd encourage you to go back and read my post where I mentioned the fallacy of equivocation. You seem to be using the term "gospel" with two meanings, while thinking it has only one meaning.

Pilgrimshope · Sep 5, 2021

John146 said:

yeah I have read every post that’s why I see the constant circles . What I quoted from Hebrews is New Testament revelation when they sacrifices animal blood every year again and again it wasn’t to forgive thier constant sin and non repentance it was a constant reminder

you are looking at a shadow Hebrews is revealing the truth of those things like this

“For the law having a shadow of good things to come, and not the very image of the things, can never with those sacrifices which they offered year by year continually make the comers thereunto perfect.

But in those sacrifices there is a remembrance again made of sins every year.

For it is not possible that the blood of bulls and of goats should take away sins.

Wherefore when he cometh into the world, he saith, Sacrifice and offering thou wouldest not, but a body hast thou prepared me:

In burnt offerings and sacrifices for sin thou hast had no pleasure.”
‭‭Hebrews‬ ‭10:1, 3-6‬ ‭KJV‬‬

but you don’t want to hear it , you want to argue your thoughts and be right .

the law was only promising Jesus it was meant to make them know their sin they never once received any remission but each year gathered as the priest stoned for thief still present sin it was a constant reminder of thier sin “ we have to sacrifice an animals life for our sins each year , or we will be destroyed “

that doesn’t say your sins are remitted it says they are ever present

you aren’t understanding that the thkngs in the law are about promising Jesus who was coming when he came

but your posts aren’t very complex I’ve read every word it’s just they don’t hold up on my view not meant to offend you but your arguments is just something I don’t see

of God says you are forgiven your forgiven there is no requirement of a sacrifice because all forgiveness from the beginning of time is based on Gods promise of Christs sacrifice those animals were only a poor pattern meant to bring the knowledge of sin

“And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.”
‭‭Revelation‬ ‭13:8‬ ‭KJV‬‬

atonement has always been based on that whether it was before he came and died or after . God spoke it from the. Efonnkng and it is so even before it was manifest in earth

those animal sacrifices were a shadow of what was coming for this purpose of a constant reminder of their sin

“Now we know that what things soever the law saith, it saith to them who are under the law: that every mouth may be stopped, and all the world may become guilty before God.

Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin.”
‭‭Romans‬ ‭3:19-20‬ ‭

I guess you know you can believe as you wish I know I will believe what’s in scripture that I can hear and perceive I think that’s all any of us can do

Pilgrimshope · Sep 5, 2021

Dino246 said:

there’s one gospel and it’s this

“Now after that John was put in prison, Jesus came into Galilee, preaching the gospel of the kingdom of God, And saying, The time is fulfilled, and the kingdom of God is at hand: repent ye, and believe the gospel.”
‭‭Mark‬ ‭1:14-15‬ ‭KJV‬‬

that’s the gospel it will end here

“And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come.”
‭‭Matthew‬ ‭24:14‬ ‭KJV‬‬

I’m not sure I’m using it to mean two things I sort of think others are making “ the gospel of grace” something different from the only gospel in existence. Which should be clear now to you I believe the gospel is the gospel and doesn’t change because we read an epistle they were preaching what we read in the four accounts of the one gospel

the gospel of Matthew , gospel of mark , gospel of Luke and gospel of John .

that’s what they all preached and why they wrote them down for the church when thier lives were nearing the end so it could be preached in all the world by those who believed

the epistles do not change anything in the gospel they help us better understand the one gospel

I’m not sure your hearing me actually maybe go re read my posts or not thats up to you and I’ll give that one of yours another read.

so am I making the gospel two things ? Or have I been really clear that the gospel began here and will always remain the same ?

“The law and the prophets were until John: since that time the kingdom of God is preached, and every man presseth into it.”
‭‭Luke‬ ‭16:16‬ ‭KJV‬‬

to be clear the gospel is what Jesus preached to Israel and then died for our remission under the law even Gentiles who didn’t receive the law but still see it in their conscience by the things
Made

if you perceive me saying there are two gospels still this should have cleared the at up

A forgotten point about the four gospels

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