A forgotten point about the four gospels

[phil36]

While the four gospels were written during the infancy of the church, and not before it, they are not presented as doctrinal statements but rather as "histories" of what happened before, during, and shortly after Jesus' life on earth. Much of Jesus' teaching is to Jews in the context of the OT law. Gentile Christians are not and never were under the law. We need to examine the gospels to determine which parts are teaching for the Church and which parts are narrative of and for that particular context.

Which parts of the Gospels do suggest we not bother with?

Who are you asking? Your question doesn't relate even remotely to my post.

Hi Dino.

My apologies if my post was not clear. I will try and make it more precise.

Much of Jesus' teaching is to Jews in the context of the OT law. Gentile Christians are not and never were under the law. We need to examine the gospels to determine which parts are teaching for the Church and which parts are narrative of and for that particular context.

So far so good, well nearly (red and blue highlights). I will get to this with your next statement:

1)Much of Jesus' teaching is to Jews in the context of the OT law. 2)Gentile Christians are not and never were under the law. 3)We need to examine the gospels to determine which parts are teaching for the Church and which parts are narrative of and for that particular context.

Firstly, all of Christs teachings are for all of His people whether Jew or gentile and not just parts thereof! In fact it's there for all men to read and obey! So there are no "which parts" for the church, rather it's all the parts the totality!

In regards to the "which parts" in your third sentence what are they as they are obviously different from the "parts" you say are for teaching the church. Are they for the church, or just to Jews as in your 1st sentence, and 3rd sentence (blue part).

Or are you just trying to say, Jesus was correcting the distorted view of the law by the religious elite that had burdened the ordinary worshiper. And that in His teaching he showed he was the fulfillment of the law. therefore those who are in Him are no longer under the law?

 

[John146]

yeah I have read every post that’s why I see the constant circles .

Brother, you misquoted me so I used scripture to correct.

 

[John146]

those animal sacrifices were a shadow of what was coming for this purpose of a constant reminder of their sin

I agree. No argument here.

 

[Nehemiah6]

the epistles do not change anything in the gospel they help us better understand the one gospel

The epistles were not meant to change anything in the Gospels, but they were meant to expand upon the meaning of the Gospel. The epistle to the Romans is an exposition of the full meaning of the Gospel. And yes, there is only ONE GOSPEL, with multiple designations (depending on the context). The Gospel of God is also the Gospel of Jesus Christ which is also the Gospel of the Kingdom of God which is also the Everlasting Gospel.

What too many Christians do not understand is the POWER OF THE GOSPEL. Paul says that it is the "power of God unto salvation" therefore Peter and James call it the seed of the New Birth. Those who are spiritually dead (as are all without the New Birth) are convicted and convinced by the Holy Spirit when the Gospel is preached. But the sad fact is that today the true and full Gospel is rarely preached.

 

[John146]

if you perceive me saying there are two gospels still this should have cleared the at up

Well, Paul‘s gospel was preached in all the world but the end has not yet come. Either the Bible is contradictory, or the messages are different. I choose that the messages are different going out to different audiences in different dispensations.

 

[John146]

The Gospel of God is also the Gospel of Jesus Christ which is also the Gospel of the Kingdom of God which is also the Everlasting Gospel.

If they are the same, why has the end not yet come?

And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come.”
‭‭Matthew‬ ‭24:14‬ ‭

 

[Pilgrimshope]

The epistles were not meant to change anything in the Gospels, but they were meant to expand upon the meaning of the Gospel. The epistle to the Romans is an exposition of the full meaning of the Gospel. And yes, there is only ONE GOSPEL, with multiple designations (depending on the context). The Gospel of God is also the Gospel of Jesus Christ which is also the Gospel of the Kingdom of God which is also the Everlasting Gospel.

What too many Christians do not understand is the POWER OF THE GOSPEL. Paul says that it is the "power of God unto salvation" therefore Peter and James call it the seed of the New Birth. Those who are spiritually dead (as are all without the New Birth) are convicted and convinced by the Holy Spirit when the Gospel is preached. But the sad fact is that today the true and full Gospel is rarely preached.

“The epistles were not meant to change anything in the Gospels, but they were meant to expand upon the understanding of the Gospel. “

yeah brother we are on the same ground and have no dispute I appreciate this post and your patience

 

[Pilgrimshope]

If they are the same, why has the end not yet come?

And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come.”
‭‭Matthew‬ ‭24:14‬ ‭

“Knowing this first, that there shall come in the last days scoffers, walking after their own lusts, And saying, Where is the promise of his coming? for since the fathers fell asleep, all things continue as they were from the beginning of the creation.



But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day.

The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.”
‭‭2 Peter‬ ‭3:3-4, 8-9‬ ‭KJV‬‬


because he is longsuffering toward us who refuse to be saved and repent

 

[Pilgrimshope]

I agree. No argument here.

So the point is that God forgives as he wills from the beginning of time Christ was already set to come and shed his blood and because God said it ot came to pass but it’s value was always there



the law of Moses is different though because God handed it to the angels when they worshipped the calf thier sacrifices were beholden to this governance


“Behold, I send an Angel before thee, to keep thee in the way, and to bring thee into the place which I have prepared.


Beware of him, and obey his voice, provoke him not; for he will not pardon your transgressions: for my name is in him.”
‭‭Exodus‬ ‭23:20-21‬ ‭KJV‬‬


they were under that judgement upon sin so their sacrifices were a constant reminder that they weren’t forgiven they were being made aware of thier need for remission which wasn’t available to them under the angel


Beforehand and after there is plenty of forgiveness but the law was for the intent of imputing sin and holding it against them

 

[John146]

“Knowing this first, that there shall come in the last days scoffers, walking after their own lusts, And saying, Where is the promise of his coming? for since the fathers fell asleep, all things continue as they were from the beginning of the creation.



But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day.

The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.”
‭‭2 Peter‬ ‭3:3-4, 8-9‬ ‭KJV‬‬


because he is longsuffering toward us who refuse to be saved and repent

The gospel Paul preached has gone out to all the world. Was the Lord lying in Matthew 24:14?

 

[Dino246]

there’s one gospel and it’s this

“Now after that John was put in prison, Jesus came into Galilee, preaching the gospel of the kingdom of God, And saying, The time is fulfilled, and the kingdom of God is at hand: repent ye, and believe the gospel.”
‭‭Mark‬ ‭1:14-15‬ ‭KJV‬‬

that’s the gospel it will end here

“And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come.”
‭‭Matthew‬ ‭24:14‬ ‭KJV‬‬

I’m not sure I’m using it to mean two things I sort of think others are making “ the gospel of grace” something different from the only gospel in existence. Which should be clear now to you I believe the gospel is the gospel and doesn’t change because we read an epistle they were preaching what we read in the four accounts of the one gospel

the gospel of Matthew , gospel of mark , gospel of Luke and gospel of John .

that’s what they all preached and why they wrote them down for the church when thier lives were nearing the end so it could be preached in all the world by those who believed

the epistles do not change anything in the gospel they help us better understand the one gospel

I’m not sure your hearing me actually maybe go re read my posts or not thats up to you and I’ll give that one of yours another read.

so am I making the gospel two things ? Or have I been really clear that the gospel began here and will always remain the same ?

“The law and the prophets were until John: since that time the kingdom of God is preached, and every man presseth into it.”
‭‭Luke‬ ‭16:16‬ ‭KJV‬‬

to be clear the gospel is what Jesus preached to Israel and then died for our remission under the law even Gentiles who didn’t receive the law but still see it in their conscience by the things
Made

if you perceive me saying there are two gospels still this should have cleared the at up

I’m not saying that there are two gospels.

I am saying that there are two meanings for the word ‘gospel’: one meaning is ‘record’ and one is ‘message’. The Gospel according to Matthew is the record of the life and teachings of Jesus. The Gospel according to John is also a record, as are Mark’s and Luke’s gospels.

The four gospels are records of the message.

 

[Pilgrimshope]

I’m not saying that there are two gospels.

I am saying that there are two meanings for the word ‘gospel’: one meaning is ‘record’ and one is ‘message’. The Gospel according to Matthew is the record of the life and teachings of Jesus. The Gospel according to John is also a record, as are Mark’s and Luke’s gospels.

The four gospels are records of the message.

nope that’s just like saying there are two gospels there’s one gospel and it is the same for everyone


“Jesus Christ the same yesterday, and to day, and for ever.”
‭‭Hebrews‬ ‭13:

 

[Pilgrimshope]

The gospel Paul preached has gone out to all the world. Was the Lord lying in Matthew 24:14?

The gospel Jesus Christ and then afterwards all Of his apostles preached was sent out to the world

“How shall we escape, if we neglect so great salvation; which at the first began to be spoken by the Lord,


and was confirmed unto us by them that heard him;


God also bearing them witness, both with signs and wonders, and with divers miracles, and gifts of the Holy Ghost, according to his own will?”
‭‭Hebrews‬ ‭2:3-4‬ ‭


Paul is not another gospel Jesus a servant and witness of the only gospel and he also didn’t change the gospels meaning

 

[Nehemiah6]

If they are the same, why has the end not yet come? And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come.”
‭‭Matthew‬ ‭24:14‬ ‭

Because the Gospel of the Kingdom (which is the true and full Gospel) has not fully been preached in all the world for a witness to all nations.

Christ must be presented to the world not only as the Savior of the world, but also BOTH Lord and Christ, as well as the coming King of kings and Lord of lords. People must hear that not only must they obey the Gospel in order to be saved, but they must know without the shadow of a doubt that Christ will come again to establish His visible, tangible, material and spiritual Kingdom upon this earth, so that all the kingdoms of the world are destroyed and only His eternal Kingdom remains on earth.

 

[Dino246]

nope that’s just like saying there are two gospels there’s one gospel and it is the same for everyone

With respect, I do not believe that you understand what I'm telling you.

 

[John146]

The gospel Jesus Christ and then afterwards all Of his apostles preached was sent out to the world

“How shall we escape, if we neglect so great salvation; which at the first began to be spoken by the Lord,


and was confirmed unto us by them that heard him;


God also bearing them witness, both with signs and wonders, and with divers miracles, and gifts of the Holy Ghost, according to his own will?”
‭‭Hebrews‬ ‭2:3-4‬ ‭


Paul is not another gospel Jesus a servant and witness of the only gospel and he also didn’t change the gospels meaning

Was hasn’t the end come and the Lord’s return?

Matthew 24
3 And as he sat upon the mount of Olives, the disciples came unto him privately, saying, Tell us, when shall these things be? and what shall be the sign of thy coming, and of the end of the world?

14 And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come.

 

[John146]

Because the Gospel of the Kingdom (which is the true and full Gospel) has not fully been preached in all the world for a witness to all nations.

Christ must be presented to the world not only as the Savior of the world, but also BOTH Lord and Christ, as well as the coming King of kings and Lord of lords. People must hear that not only must they obey the Gospel in order to be saved, but they must know without the shadow of a doubt that Christ will come again to establish His visible, tangible, material and spiritual Kingdom upon this earth, so that all the kingdoms of the world are destroyed and only His eternal Kingdom remains on earth.

Well, the gospel Paul preached has gone out to all the world.

 

[Pilgrimshope]

With respect, I do not believe that you understand what I'm telling you.

I sure don’t

 

[Dino246]

Hi Dino.

My apologies if my post was not clear. I will try and make it more precise.



So far so good, well nearly (red and blue highlights). I will get to this with your next statement:




Firstly, all of Christs teachings are for all of His people whether Jew or gentile and not just parts thereof! In fact it's there for all men to read and obey! So there are no "which parts" for the church, rather it's all the parts the totality!

In regards to the "which parts" in your third sentence what are they as they are obviously different from the "parts" you say are for teaching the church. Are they for the church, or just to Jews as in your 1st sentence, and 3rd sentence (blue part).

Or are you just trying to say, Jesus was correcting the distorted view of the law by the religious elite that had burdened the ordinary worshiper. And that in His teaching he showed he was the fulfillment of the law. therefore those who are in Him are no longer under the law?

We disagree.

As I said to Pilgrimshope, Jesus said to His audience, in reference to the Pharisees, "Do all that they tell you." Jesus does not intend that we gentile believers of the 21st century "Do all that" the Pharisees teach. They were the enforcers of the OT law; we gentiles are not even under that law.

Jesus' audience consisted primarily of Jews under the old covenant (though certainly, there were a few gentiles who heard Him preach). He Himself said, "I was sent only to the lost sheep of Israel" (Matthew 15:24)... not to everyone. Does that mean He is not the Saviour of the world? No; of course not. What it does mean is that while in the flesh, Jesus' mission was to preach to the people of Israel, not to the entire world.

It appears that you are making exactly the same mistake that Pilgrimshope made; you're trying to refute my post instead of trying to understand it. If you read through the gospels and treat ALL of Jesus' words as directive for YOU, you will have to put yourself under the old testament law. You will go only to the towns of Israel (Matthew 10:6), sell your cloak and buy a sword (Luke 22:36), go and tell Jesus' brothers to go to Galilee (Matthew 28:10), go and show yourself to the priest (Mark 1:44), etc.

Do you understand now? The reader needs to determine which bits of the gospels are directive for ALL Christians, and which are specific to a certain time/place/audience.

 

[Dino246]

I sure don’t

Okay... I'll try again.

Among the books of the Bible, how many gospels are there?