What does, “But the one who endures to the end will be saved” mean?

[justbyfaith]

No.

Luk 21:36 Watch ye therefore, and pray always, that ye may be accounted worthy to escape all these things that shall come to pass, and to stand before the Son of man.

1 Corinthians 10:13 There hath no temptation taken you but such as is common to man: but God is faithful, who will not suffer you to be tempted above that ye are able; but will with the temptation also make a way to escape, that ye may be able to BEAR it.

To escape in this context isn't to run away but to be able to bear what is going to come. Christians survive the great tribulation are those who escaped in a non-physical sense, being able to bear the tribulations satan brings upon church in that time period.

bear it:

G5297
ὑποφέρω
hupopherō
hoop-of-er'-o
From G5259 and G5342; to bear from underneath, that is, (figuratively) to undergo hardship: - bear, endure.
Total KJV occurrences: 3

According to Revelation 13:16, there is no one who survives the GT who has not taken the mark of the Beast.

if anyone doesn't take the mark, the false prophet causes them to be killed (Revelation 13:15).

 

[justbyfaith]

Good Nite Brother - Peace and Blessings to you and your Family - Read John 17 You will find your Peace and Rescue there.

Good Nite...

I would encourage you to begin praying Luke 21:36 with faith that you have received the thing that you are asking for (Mark 11:24).

That is what I am doing...so you are not going to be able to convince me that I am going to go through the GT.

But I am pretty sure that you are not praying Luke 21:36 with a prayer of faith...otherwise you would also know that you are not going to go through the GT.

But because you are not praying it, maybe you will go through the GT...

good luck with that!

 

[ewq1938]

According to Revelation 13:16, there is no one who survives the GT who has not taken the mark of the Beast.

1Th 4:16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:
1Th 4:17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

Paul taught some would be alive and remain.

if anyone doesn't take the mark, the false prophet causes them to be killed (Revelation 13:15).

Rev 13:15 And he had power to give life unto the image of the beast, that the image of the beast should both speak, and cause that as many as would not worship the image of the beast should be killed.

Scripture doesn't say refusing the mark gets you killed. It says refusing to worship the image of beast would get you killed but if you live on other side of the world than that image, then not worshiping it isn't an issue. You have to be there where the image is to be worshiping it.

 

[ewq1938]

But because you are not praying it, maybe you will go through the GT...

All Christians alive at the time will go through it. Christ promised it:

Rev 12:17 And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.

That's the great tribulation also found in Rev13.


Mat 24:15 When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand
Mat 24:16 Then let them which be in Judaea flee into the mountains:
Mat 24:17 Let him which is on the housetop not come down to take any thing out of his house:
Mat 24:18 Neither let him which is in the field return back to take his clothes.
Mat 24:19 And woe unto them that are with child, and to them that give suck in those days!
Mat 24:20 But pray ye that your flight be not in the winter, neither on the sabbath day:
Mat 24:21 For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.

He's talking to Christians who would see AoD which further proves church is very much going through the GT. Instead of being raptured, they are told to flee to mountains. No rapture happening.

Here is the rapture:

Mat 24:29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:
Mat 24:30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.
Mat 24:31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

 

[justbyfaith]

1Th 4:16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:
1Th 4:17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

Paul taught some would be alive and remain.

That merely proves to me that the rapture is pre-trib.

Because it is clear to me that all who remain on the face of the earth at that time will worship the image of the Beast and take his mark (Revelation 13:16).

So, if there are some who will be of faith who are alive and remain at the timing of the rapture, it is not going to be a post-trib rapture. Because at the end of the Great Trib, no one is going to be alive and remain who hasn't taken the mark.

Rev 13:15 And he had power to give life unto the image of the beast, that the image of the beast should both speak, and cause that as many as would not worship the image of the beast should be killed.

Scripture doesn't say refusing the mark gets you killed. It says refusing to worship the image of beast would get you killed but if you live on other side of the world than that image, then not worshiping it isn't an issue. You have to be there where the image is to be worshiping it.

We have television and the internet so the worship of the Beast is going to be all over the world.

It will be a situation where people will be required to worship the image of the Beast in order to take the mark and thus gain the right to buy or sell in that time.

So, refusing to take the mark will get you killed; because worshiping the image of the Beast is inextricably intertwined with taking the mark.

Not to mention a person cannot buy or sell without the mark and so would be very likely to die of starvation if they don't have their heads chopped off first.

 

[ewq1938]

That merely proves to me that the rapture is pre-trib.

Because it is clear to me that all who remain on the face of the earth at that time will worship the image of the Beast and take his mark (Revelation 13:16).

That happens long before rapture happens. Both Christ andf Paul placed rapture at the 7th trump second coming when GT was over. The ones who are alive and remain survived the GT. That's why being still alive and remaining is such an achievement since a great many die.

So, if there are some who will be of faith who are alive and remain at the timing of the rapture, it is not going to be a post-trib rapture. Because at the end of the Great Trib, no one is going to be alive and remain who hasn't taken the mark.

Again, that is wrong. Not all will take mark and they shall be alive and remain when returns. This is why they are able to survive:

Mat 24:22 And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened.

The length of GT was shortened so some still survive.

It will be a situation where people will be required to worship the image of the Beast in order to take the mark and thus gain the right to buy or sell in that time.

And those who don't need to buy or sell can refuse mark and the only punishment is no buying or selling.

So, refusing to take the mark will get you killed; because worshiping the image of the Beast is inextricably intertwined with taking the mark.

No, they are completely separate.

Not to mention a person cannot buy or sell without the mark and so would be very likely to die of starvation if they don't have their heads chopped off first.

Some people have 42 months of food and supplies stored so no buying or selling will be needed.

 

[Rondonmon]

Posted with permission)
I think one of the major issues of contention, whether or not The Elect of God, Christians, will go through the Great Tribulation, is due to a major misunderstanding of the scripture in both Ephesians 2:8 and Matthew 24:13. It is my hope this article saved in my favorites file for years now will assist in clearing that up.


June 24, 2017
In Matt 24:13, Jesus says the famous words:

But the one who endures to the end will be saved. (ESV)​

Perhaps the most common understanding of this passage is that we must endure in good works to the end of our physical lives to be saved from hell. This understanding contradicts Paul’s words in Eph 2:8a:

For by grace you have been saved through faith. (ESV)​

Notice two differences between Eph 2:8a and Matt 24:13: First, the Matt 24:13 salvation is by enduring whereas the Eph 2:8a salvation is by grace through faith. Second, the Matt 24:13 salvation is future (“will be saved,” from the Greek future tense, sothesetai) whereas the Eph 2:8a salvation is past (“have been saved,” from the Greek perfect tense sesosmenoi). Salvation from hell was by grace through faith and has already happened to me, so what is the future salvation by endurance that Jesus is talking about in Matt 24:13? The answer is in the context.
Matthew 24:13 is part of an answer to the question that Jesus’ disciples asked earlier in the chapter:

As he sat on the Mount of Olives, the disciples came to him privately, saying, “Tell us, when will these things be, and what will be the sign of your coming and of the end of the age?” (Matt 24:3 ESV)​

It makes sense that the salvation in vs 13 should be in the future tense; after all, the disciples are asking about the future. Specifically, they were asking about the 7-year tribulation period. One reason we know that the Tribulation is in view is because Jesus says that the abomination of desolation (which Daniel talks about in Dan 9) will occur during this period. We also know that this is the tribulation because they asked immediately after Jesus said that not one stone of the temple would be left on another – surely a reference to the replacement of the 2nd temple with the temple that Ezekiel writes about in Ez 40-48.

Yep. There are still stones on top of each other.
(source)

We already know that the salvation in question is not salvation from hell, so what is it a salvation from? In verse 22, Jesus indicates that salvation from physical death is in mind:

And if those days had not been cut short, no human being would be saved. But for the sake of the elect those days will be cut short. (ESV)​

When Jesus says, “He who endures to the end will be saved,” He does not mean that you must be good until you die to be saved from hell. He is talking about a specific group of people in the future who will need to endure to the end of the tribulation in order to be saved from physical death.
Understanding Matt 24:13 is good news for several reasons. It’s good news to know that we don’t need to endure to the end of the Tribulation because we aren’t in the Tribulation. It’s also good news to know that we won’t even be in the Tribulation, in fact, this is the doctrine that Paul points to for us to encourage each other with.1 Perhaps most of all, it’s a relief to know that we can take Jesus at His word to give eternal life to whomever believes in Him for it:

Truly, truly, I say to you, whoever hears my word and believes him who sent me has eternal life. He does not come into judgment, but has passed from death to life. (John 5:24 ESV)​

1. See this article by a popular theologian.

Paul gave us a clue later, we run a Marathon, not a sprint, we must run the full race to the end.

Most people simply do not understand Matt 24's purpose. Jesus wanted the Disciples to understand THEIR MISSION after he died, so he laid out all the pitfalls that were about to come their way a showed them how to dodge all these things, then just after he told them they were all going to die, (save John) by being Martyrs, he states that you must ENDURE UNTIL THE END [of one's life), we must run the full race, we can't renounce Jesus to save our own lives, the Disciples had to set that example, and that very example helped the church give Rome the Mortal Wound.

In verses 4-6 Jesus warns them what the 70 AD event is going to bring false christ but forth by the Pharisees who thought the Messiah was a political savior and thus understanding Rome was the Fourth Beast they fulfilled John 5:43 where Jesus told them they rejected him who came in the Father's name but would accept another who came in his own name. Jesus tells them, don't be fooled (don't rush back here when you see the wars and rumors of wars from afar) THEN END IS NOT YET, it is by and by.......LATER ON......Then he tells them in verse 14 what brings THE END where they can never get deceived. Since verse 14 says the Gospel MUST be preached unto ALL THE WORLD, then the End (70th week) will come, the Disciples had a foolproof understanding, until they preached the Gospel unto China and India and the far north (Russia now) tey knew Jesus could not show up, so when they heard about the Pharisesputing forth messianic type figures and that they were fighting Rome, they stayed away, because they knew they had not yet preached the Gospel unto all the world.

Then Jesus tells them about the Church Age and how their lives will all end, he does this to make them face the tough road they have to travel in order to build the church from nothing. He tells them about the 2000 years of the Church Age Birth Pangs that lead up to THE END (70th week), Wars or Ethnos vs. Ethnos (Race vs. Race), Pestilence, Earthquakes, Famine. Then in verse 9, he warns them that they would all be killed, and in verse 13 Jesus WARNS THEM, that they MUST ENDURE until the end [of their lives].

What confuses people us the very next verse is Jesus then telling the Disciples what brings the END (70th week), and he says only the Gospel being preached unto all the world will bring the END TIMES (70th week).

Thus, the Disciples had all the info they needed. They knew THE END (Jesus Second Coming) could not come until the Gospel had been preached unit all the world, but they also knew their fate was going to be that they must die, so much that one of them asked Jesus about John (not dying like them) and Jesus said, (paraphrasing) let me worry about that. So, Jesus had them set up whee they could not be deceived by anything, via Matt. 24.

 

[DavidTree]

Paul gave us a clue later, we run a Marathon, not a sprint, we must run the full race to the end.

Most people simply do not understand Matt 24's purpose. Jesus wanted the Disciples to understand THEIR MISSION after he died, so he laid out all the pitfalls that were about to come their way a showed them how to dodge all these things, then just after he told them they were all going to die, (save John) by being Martyrs, he states that you must ENDURE UNTIL THE END [of one's life), we must run the full race, we can't renounce Jesus to save our own lives, the Disciples had to set that example, and that very example helped the church give Rome the Mortal Wound.

In verses 4-6 Jesus warns them what the 70 AD event is going to bring false christ but forth by the Pharisees who thought the Messiah was a political savior and thus understanding Rome was the Fourth Beast they fulfilled John 5:43 where Jesus told them they rejected him who came in the Father's name but would accept another who came in his own name. Jesus tells them, don't be fooled (don't rush back here when you see the wars and rumors of wars from afar) THEN END IS NOT YET, it is by and by.......LATER ON......Then he tells them in verse 14 what brings THE END where they can never get deceived. Since verse 14 says the Gospel MUST be preached unto ALL THE WORLD, then the End (70th week) will come, the Disciples had a foolproof understanding, until they preached the Gospel unto China and India and the far north (Russia now) tey knew Jesus could not show up, so when they heard about the Pharisesputing forth messianic type figures and that they were fighting Rome, they stayed away, because they knew they had not yet preached the Gospel unto all the world.

Then Jesus tells them about the Church Age and how their lives will all end, he does this to make them face the tough road they have to travel in order to build the church from nothing. He tells them about the 2000 years of the Church Age Birth Pangs that lead up to THE END (70th week), Wars or Ethnos vs. Ethnos (Race vs. Race), Pestilence, Earthquakes, Famine. Then in verse 9, he warns them that they would all be killed, and in verse 13 Jesus WARNS THEM, that they MUST ENDURE until the end [of their lives].

What confuses people us the very next verse is Jesus then telling the Disciples what brings the END (70th week), and he says only the Gospel being preached unto all the world will bring the END TIMES (70th week).

Thus, the Disciples had all the info they needed. They knew THE END (Jesus Second Coming) could not come until the Gospel had been preached unit all the world, but they also knew their fate was going to be that they must die, so much that one of them asked Jesus about John (not dying like them) and Jesus said, (paraphrasing) let me worry about that. So, Jesus had them set up whee they could not be deceived by anything, via Matt. 24.

You said: "and that very example helped the church give Rome the Mortal Wound."

Hallelujah - You are the first person i know who understands this - talk to me -

There is only One Sword that can wound/kill the Dragon/Beast - the Word of God.

i have a thought about when this occurred - Luther - what say you

 

[SaltwaterGirl]

We are told to pray for a pre-tribulation rapture in Luke 21:36.

Greetings, brother. I appreciate your passionate belief, but I’d like to put down another consideration regarding Luke 21:36. May the Lord give us guidance and wisdom, in Jesus’ most precious name.

Luke 21:36 "Watch ye therefore, and pray always, that ye may be accounted worthy to escape all these things that shall come to pass, and to stand before the Son of man."

Why do we stand before the Son of man? We stand there for judgment.

Pray that you will have the wisdom and strength to stand against Satan. Pray that you will be the one to hear Him say, “Well done My good and faithful servant.”

I believe many will stand before Christ in shame, and Jesus will say to them, "Get away from me, I know you not."

The subject for this entire “hour of temptation“ is being deceived. The purpose of this chapter is to keep us from being deceived by those that come in Christ's name teaching false doctrines that go against God's Word. So, if Satan says that he is Christ and your pastor tells you that the man in Jerusalem is Christ, and Satan does and says the things you expect the true Christ to do, will you follow your pastor and, perhaps in ignorance because you have been taught wrong, bow to Satan, thinking he is the true Christ? That is the test and trial for “such a time of this.” You will see such awesome supernatural things happening right before your eyes!

2 Thessalonians 2:1, 2 "Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together unto Him, That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter, as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand."

 

[walknlight]

Good Norning

Why do we stand before the Son of man? We stand there for judgment.

Those who are His have already been "judged", righteous.
We stand at the Bema Seat in Christ's righteousness
The Father see's His Son.
Halleluyah!
God Bless!

 

[DavidTree]

Good Norning

Those who are His have already been "judged", righteous.
We stand at the Bema Seat in Christ's righteousness
The Father see's His Son.
Halleluyah!
God Bless!

We are seated in Christ (Bema Seat) =
"and raised us up together, and made us sit together in the heavenly places in Christ Jesus," - Eph 2:6

There is a Day/Time appointed where we shall all 'stand' before Him and be judged (not for sin).

The we who stand before Him are only His Children =
Watch therefore, and pray always that you may be counted worthy to escape all these things that will come to pass, and to stand before the Son of Man.”
This is NOT the lie of pre-trib rapture as some seek to portray and "add words to God's words".

This is our LORD saying " when I Come you will be Resurrected (to Stand) if you have been counted worthy.

When and How are we 'counted worthy' - The KEY to this answer is in the Matthew 24 & 25 and the Gospel of John(and Mark, Matthew, Luke).

The Gospel of John is Unique and thus i say the KEY is there (more easily found).

 

[walknlight]

We are seated in Christ (Bema Seat) =
"and raised us up together, and made us sit together in the heavenly places in Christ Jesus," - Eph 2:6

Past tense. Done deal. Sealed.

There is a Day/Time appointed where we shall all 'stand' before Him and be judged (not for sin)

Crowns and rewards...

Watch therefore, and pray always that you may be counted worthy to escape all these things that will come to pass, and to stand before the Son of Man.”

Believe, Christ righteousness imputed, sealed. Already counted worthy wont have to escape because He will come as He said he would.

......some seek to portray and "add words to God's words".

1. There is a difference in expounding on The Word and adding to the word.....

1Th 4:13 (13-18) Now, we do not wish you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning those who from time to time are falling asleep, in order that you may not be mourning in the same manner as the rest who do not have a hope. For in view of the fact that we believe that Jesus died and arose, thus also will God bring with Him those who have fallen asleep through the intermediate agency of Jesus. For this we are saying to you by the Lord's word, that as for us who are living and are left behind until the coming of the Lord, we shall by no means precede those who fell asleep, because the Lord himself with a Cry of command, with an archangel's voice, and with a call of a trumpet sounded at God's command, shall descend from heaven, and the dead in Christ shall be raised first, then as for us who are living and who are left behind, together with them we shall be snatched away forcibly in clouds for a welcome-meeting with the Lord in the lower atmosphere. And thus always shall we be with the Lord. So that be encouraging one another with these words. WUEST

2. Snatched forcibly, because some would not go on their own.....
So when THIS JOYOUS event happens, because it will, those who are His will have no choice....

God Bless!

 

[DavidTree]

Past tense. Done deal. Sealed.


Crowns and rewards...

Believe, Christ righteousness imputed, sealed. Already counted worthy wont have to escape because He will come as He said he would.

1. There is a difference in expounding on The Word and adding to the word.....

1Th 4:13 (13-18) Now, we do not wish you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning those who from time to time are falling asleep, in order that you may not be mourning in the same manner as the rest who do not have a hope. For in view of the fact that we believe that Jesus died and arose, thus also will God bring with Him those who have fallen asleep through the intermediate agency of Jesus. For this we are saying to you by the Lord's word, that as for us who are living and are left behind until the coming of the Lord, we shall by no means precede those who fell asleep, because the Lord himself with a Cry of command, with an archangel's voice, and with a call of a trumpet sounded at God's command, shall descend from heaven, and the dead in Christ shall be raised first, then as for us who are living and who are left behind, together with them we shall be snatched away forcibly in clouds for a welcome-meeting with the Lord in the lower atmosphere. And thus always shall we be with the Lord. So that be encouraging one another with these words. WUEST

2. Snatched forcibly, because some would not go on their own.....
So when THIS JOYOUS event happens, because it will, those who are His will have no choice....

God Bless!

And this is not the lie of pre-trib - No pre-trib rapture in 1 Thess or 2 Thess or the Gospels or Revelation

To say that there is - adds to God's words what He did not say.

He said He is coming after the Tribulation - anyone who says other is a false prophet/teacher and is a liar.

Immediately after the tribulation of those days:
‘The sun will be darkened,
and the moon will not give its light;
the stars will fall from the sky,
and the powers of the heavens will be shaken.b’
30At that time the sign of the Son of Man will appear in heaven,c and all the tribes of the earth will mourn. They will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven, with power and great glory.d 31And He will send out His angels with a loud trumpet call, and they will gather His elect from the four winds, from one end of the heavens to the other.

Remember, when you post a scripture and then add to God's words what HE did not say or specify -and you add your doctrine on top of God's words - to support a lie - you sin and, the truth is not in your words.

God is calling His Children to repentance from following after false christs, false prophets, false teachers.
This is what they do to attract the flesh in you = "adding to and taking away from His words."

For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine, but according to their own desires, because they have itching ears, they will heap up for themselves teachers; 2 Timothy ch2

You can always know the spirit of error - it always "adds and takes away" from God's words.

You seek after a pre-trib rapture - you seek and follow a idol - for it came from the mouth of sinful men.

 

[walknlight]

And this is not the lie of pre-trib - No pre-trib rapture in 1 Thess or 2 Thess or the Gospels or Revelation

ok

 

[DavidTree]

ok

i have offered a $1,000 Award - Guaranteed - for the Scripture that says "His Church/Bride/Elect will be pre-trib raptured"
I did this over a month ago on numerous Threads and Posts.
Not one scripture - not one, was given or brought forth - not one.

Pre-trib rapture has no place in Christ and cannot be found in any of His Words - not even once.

How about just one verse where our Lord says: 'My Bride/Saints will not be in the great tribulation'

Apostle Paul? give us just one verse where he says - "we shall be pre-trib raptured before the Lord's Coming"

Apostle John? can you give us just one verse where he says - 'we will not face the Antichrist, it will not happen until after we leave'

 

[Rondonmon]

You said: "and that very example helped the church give Rome the Mortal Wound."

Hallelujah - You are the first person i know who understands this - talk to me -

There is only One Sword that can wound/kill the Dragon/Beast - the Word of God.

i have a thought about when this occurred - Luther - what say you

Yes, the Figurative 7 Headed Beast is defeated by the Church full of the Holy Spirit because the gates of hell can not overcome the Church. Thus the Beast resides o both sides of the Church, bit only after the Pre Trib Rapture. And yes, I read your posts below, you are in error in the timing f the Rapture brother. My forte is the book of Revelation, so when I tell you the Rapture s pre-trib, I am not guessing, its easy, Rev. 19 tells you the church return with Jesus AFTER they are married in Heaven. You Matt. 24:29-31 reference doesn't mean anything, because we KNOW Jesus returns AFTER the Tribulation with the Church. That's a given, so that verse proves nothing, continually citing that gets you nowhere.

 

[DavidTree]

Yes, the Figurative 7 Headed Beast is defeated by the Church full of the Holy Spirit because the gates of hell can not overcome the Church. Thus the Beast resides o both sides of the Church, bit only after the Pre Trib Rapture. And yes, I read your posts below, you are in error in the timing f the Rapture brother. My forte is the book of Revelation, so when I tell you the Rapture s pre-trib, I am not guessing, its easy, Rev. 19 tells you the church return with Jesus AFTER they are married in Heaven. You Matt. 24:29-31 reference doesn't mean anything, because we KNOW Jesus returns AFTER the Tribulation with the Church. That's a given, so that verse proves nothing, continually citing that gets you nowhere.

Love you my Brother - thank you and Peace of our Lord to you and me - Amen
since you have read my posts i will not rehash posting the entire scripture verses.

Since the book of Revelation is your forte, where is the pre-trib rapture stated by our Lord.

It's not in Rev 3:10 - you would have to add your own words there as no rapture is stated or even referred to AND our Lord already clarified how He will "keep us from the hour of temptation".

How do you reconcile the fact that - no where, not once in scripture is there a 'pre-trib rapture' word, phrase, directive, instruction, or prophesy.

Revelation is clear that the Saints are THERE, on earth witnessing for Christ during the Great Tribulation
Revelation 6: 9-11 definitively states the Saints/His Elect/His Church are not pre-trib raptured
Revelation 7: 11-14 definitively states the Saints are in Great Tribulation and "come out" from the midst of it.
Revelation 20: 4-5 definitively states the Saints who endured the GT are part of the First Resurrection.

Revelation agrees with Daniel 7 and all the Scripture stated below.

1 Thessalonians ch4 Apostle Paul definitively states NO Rapture until the Resurrection at the Coming of the Lord
2 Thessalonians Paul again, definitively states that NO Rapture until the "falling away and the man of sin"
1 John 2:18 Apostle John definitively states that the Antichrist comes along with the "falling away" = "they went out from us"
Mark 24:10 Jesus definitively states that people will "fall away" before His coming.

In LIGHT of the overwhelming words of our LORD and the Apostles and Daniel - Where in Revelation is the pre-trib rapture???

Not adding to or taking away from God's words are His Love in me and unto Him - Amen

 

[justbyfaith]

I suppose that it is time to let the blind be leaders of the blind.

We'll explain it to you on the way up.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

i have offered a $1,000 Award - Guaranteed - for the Scripture that says "His Church/Bride/Elect will be pre-trib raptured"
I did this over a month ago on numerous Threads and Posts.
Not one scripture - not one, was given or brought forth - not one.

Pre-trib rapture has no place in Christ and cannot be found in any of His Words - not even once.

How about just one verse where our Lord says: 'My Bride/Saints will not be in the great tribulation'

Apostle Paul? give us just one verse where he says - "we shall be pre-trib raptured before the Lord's Coming"

Apostle John? can you give us just one verse where he says - 'we will not face the Antichrist, it will not happen until after we leave'

While I am not pre-trib per say (I am undecided)

to say there is no scripture is just wrong.

one of the reasons I am undecided is every believe can make a case. However. I feel post trib is the lease supported (outside of those ho think we are in the millennium nw)

 

[DavidTree]

While I am not pre-trib per say (I am undecided)

to say there is no scripture is just wrong.

one of the reasons I am undecided is every believe can make a case. However. I feel post trib is the lease supported (outside of those ho think we are in the millennium nw)

if what you say is true, you are undecided, then why did you leave a X disagree - if you have no scripture to clearly show otherwise.

i do not mind a X as long as some CLEAR evidence is brought forth

Personally, i reserve the X for something that is close to a heresy or is clearly and EASILY refuted by scripture such as saying that we must follow the law to be saved.

There is a 'Indifferent option' - if what you say about yourself is true