What does, “But the one who endures to the end will be saved” mean?

[justbyfaith]

if what you say is true, you are undecided, then why did you leave a X disagree - if you have no scripture to clearly show otherwise.

i do not mind a X as long as some CLEAR evidence is brought forth

Personally, i reserve the X for something that is close to a heresy or is clearly and EASILY refuted by scripture such as saying that we must follow the law to be saved.

There is a 'Indifferent option' - if what you say about yourself is true

Whlle we do not follow the law in order to be saved, if we are saved we will be obedient to holy scripture.

So, if someone is not obedient to the law, it is evidence that they have not yet been saved.

 

[DavidTree]

Whlle we do not follow the law in order to be saved, if we are saved we will be obedient to holy scripture.

So, if someone is not obedient to the law, it is evidence that they have not yet been saved.

Yes, agree that there are commandments that do not 'go away' because of the Gospel of God.

But stay away from the Law, except for study of how Christ is far better then the Law - He is the Perfect Law of God.

Do you agree we should not commit adultery - Yes/No?

 

[justbyfaith]

Yes, agree that there are commandments that do not 'go away' because of the Gospel of God.

But stay away from the Law, except for study of how Christ is far better then the Law - He is the Perfect Law of God.

Do you agree we should not commit adultery - Yes/No?

Yes...and Jesus brought that law home to the heart by saying that we ought not to even lust.

If we do lust, the law, as Jesus re-defined it, convicts us as sinners; it shows us that we are sinners in need of a Saviour (Romans 3:20).

 

[DavidTree]

I suppose that it is time to let the blind be leaders of the blind.

We'll explain it to you on the way up.

Blind leaders add to and take away from God's words.
God, in return, gives them over to spiritual blindness so that they cannot see what God actually did say.
Now they are unable to see HIM, but can only see their idol which they place in the scriptures and in the Temple of God, just as their ancestors did.
The LORD did this to the unbelieving Jews and the Nation of Israel - and He does so today to those who play church and reject His words for the words of men.

 

[DavidTree]

Yes...and Jesus brought that law home to the heart by saying that we ought not to even lust.

If we do lust, the law, as Jesus re-defined it, convicts us as sinners; it shows us that we are sinners in need of a Saviour (Romans 3:20).

Or do you not know, brethren (for I speak to those who know the law), that the law has dominion over a man as long as he lives? 2For the woman who has a husband is bound by the law to her husband as long as he lives. But if the husband dies, she is released from the law of her husband. 3So then if, while her husband lives, she marries another man, she will be called an adulteress; but if her husband dies, she is free from that law, so that she is no adulteress, though she has married another man. 4Therefore, my brethren, you also have become dead to the law through the body of Christ, that you may be married to another—to Him who was raised from the dead, that we should bear fruit to God.

Do not commit adultery against Him who you were joined to in Holy matrimony.
Going back to the Law or seeking to bring it into the Marriage with Christ is sin, since we are married to Him.

 

[justbyfaith]

Or do you not know, brethren (for I speak to those who know the law), that the law has dominion over a man as long as he lives? 2For the woman who has a husband is bound by the law to her husband as long as he lives. But if the husband dies, she is released from the law of her husband. 3So then if, while her husband lives, she marries another man, she will be called an adulteress; but if her husband dies, she is free from that law, so that she is no adulteress, though she has married another man. 4Therefore, my brethren, you also have become dead to the law through the body of Christ, that you may be married to another—to Him who was raised from the dead, that we should bear fruit to God.

Do not commit adultery against Him who you were joined to in Holy matrimony.
Going back to the Law or seeking to bring it into the Marriage with Christ is sin, since we are married to Him.

And, since we are not any longer under the law (Romans 6:14), are dead to the law (Romans 7:4, Galatians 2:19) and are delivered from the law (Romans 7:6), it follows that "all things are lawful for me" (1 Corinthians 6:12, 10:23). For where no law is, there is no transgression (Romans 4:15); and sin is not imputed where there is no law (Romans 5:13).

This is as concerning condemnation.

As concerning obedience, we are under the law to Christ (1 Corinthians 9:21). See also Hebrews 8:8-10, Hebrews 10:16, Romans 8:7, Romans 8:4, 1 John 5:3, 2 John 1:6, Romans 13:8-10; Romans 5:5; 1 John 2:3-6.

For if we walk not after the flesh but after the Spirit, the righteousness of the law is fulfilled in us (Romans 8:4). And, if we bear the fruit of the Spirit, there is no law that will condemn us in our behaviour (Galatians 5:22-23). Thus, when we bear the fruit of the Spirit, we become law-abiding citizens of the kingdom of heaven.

This is not by attempting to obey a set of do's and don'ts; but rather, through receiving the Spirit by faith (Galatians 3:14) and then walking according to that Spirit, we inadvertently cease from violating any moral tenets that might be able to condemn us if we were under them.

This is a righteousness apart from the law, that is nevertheless attested to by the law and the prophets (Romans 3:21) that it is righteousness indeed.

 

[DavidTree]

And, since we are not any longer under the law (Romans 6:14), are dead to the law (Romans 7:4, Galatians 2:19) and are delivered from the law (Romans 7:6), it follows that "all things are lawful for me" (1 Corinthians 6:12, 10:23). For where no law is, there is no transgression (Romans 4:15); and sin is not imputed where there is no law (Romans 5:13).

This is as concerning condemnation.

As concerning obedience, we are under the law to Christ (1 Corinthians 9:21). See also Hebrews 8:8-10, Hebrews 10:16, Romans 8:7, Romans 8:4, 1 John 5:3, 2 John 1:6, Romans 13:8-10; Romans 5:5; 1 John 2:3-6.

For if we walk not after the flesh but after the Spirit, the righteousness of the law is fulfilled in us (Romans 8:4). And, if we bear the fruit of the Spirit, there is no law that will condemn us in our behaviour (Galatians 5:22-23). Thus, when we bear the fruit of the Spirit, we become law-abiding citizens of the kingdom of heaven.

This is not by attempting to obey a set of do's and don'ts; but rather, through receiving the Spirit by faith (Galatians 3:14) and then walking according to that Spirit, we inadvertently cease from violating any moral tenets that might be able to condemn us if we were under them.

This is a righteousness apart from the law, that is nevertheless attested to by the law and the prophets (Romans 3:21) that it is righteousness indeed.

Nope - adding again - 1 cor 9:21 is about Paul seeking to win those under the Law as though he also is, but He is Not since he is under the Law of Christ - TWO different laws.

You speak of the Spirit but do not speaks the words of the Spirit.

 

[Icedaisey]

Paul gave us a clue later, we run a Marathon, not a sprint, we must run the full race to the end.

Most people simply do not understand Matt 24's purpose. Jesus wanted the Disciples to understand THEIR MISSION after he died, so he laid out all the pitfalls that were about to come their way a showed them how to dodge all these things, then just after he told them they were all going to die, (save John) by being Martyrs, he states that you must ENDURE UNTIL THE END [of one's life), we must run the full race, we can't renounce Jesus to save our own lives, the Disciples had to set that example, and that very example helped the church give Rome the Mortal Wound.

In verses 4-6 Jesus warns them what the 70 AD event is going to bring false christ but forth by the Pharisees who thought the Messiah was a political savior and thus understanding Rome was the Fourth Beast they fulfilled John 5:43 where Jesus told them they rejected him who came in the Father's name but would accept another who came in his own name. Jesus tells them, don't be fooled (don't rush back here when you see the wars and rumors of wars from afar) THEN END IS NOT YET, it is by and by.......LATER ON......Then he tells them in verse 14 what brings THE END where they can never get deceived. Since verse 14 says the Gospel MUST be preached unto ALL THE WORLD, then the End (70th week) will come, the Disciples had a foolproof understanding, until they preached the Gospel unto China and India and the far north (Russia now) tey knew Jesus could not show up, so when they heard about the Pharisesputing forth messianic type figures and that they were fighting Rome, they stayed away, because they knew they had not yet preached the Gospel unto all the world.

Then Jesus tells them about the Church Age and how their lives will all end, he does this to make them face the tough road they have to travel in order to build the church from nothing. He tells them about the 2000 years of the Church Age Birth Pangs that lead up to THE END (70th week), Wars or Ethnos vs. Ethnos (Race vs. Race), Pestilence, Earthquakes, Famine. Then in verse 9, he warns them that they would all be killed, and in verse 13 Jesus WARNS THEM, that they MUST ENDURE until the end [of their lives].

What confuses people us the very next verse is Jesus then telling the Disciples what brings the END (70th week), and he says only the Gospel being preached unto all the world will bring the END TIMES (70th week).

Thus, the Disciples had all the info they needed. They knew THE END (Jesus Second Coming) could not come until the Gospel had been preached unit all the world, but they also knew their fate was going to be that they must die, so much that one of them asked Jesus about John (not dying like them) and Jesus said, (paraphrasing) let me worry about that. So, Jesus had them set up whee they could not be deceived by anything, via Matt. 24.

John 10:28 And I give to them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand.


Endurance? Endurance. We can endure to the end of anything because we have God's Holy Spirit within us, and Jesus as our armour.

Ephesians 6:13
Therefore take up the full armor of God, so that when the day of evil comes, you will be able to stand your ground, and having done everything, to stand. 14Stand firm then, with the belt of truth buckled around your waist, with the breastplate of righteousness arrayed, 15and with your feet fitted with the readiness of the gospel of peace. 16In addition to all this, take up the shield of faith, with which you can extinguish all the flaming arrows of the evil one. 17And take the helmet of salvation and the sword of the Spirit, which is the word of God.

 

[Rondonmon]

Love you my Brother - thank you and Peace of our Lord to you and me - Amen
since you have read my posts i will not rehash posting the entire scripture verses.

Since the book of Revelation is your forte, where is the pre-trib rapture stated by our Lord.

I will show you, but what you don't seem to grasp is Jesis same for the Jews ONLY, he said so, not anyone else, he wouldn't even listen to a Samaritan woman, but eventually healed her daughter because of her great faith. So, Jesus spoke about when he would rescue the Jews, at the Second Coming, you confuse that with the Rapture of the Church.

Did you know the Three Harvests can be seen in Rev. 14? The Jews always celebrated THREE Harvests, the Barley Harvest came first, the Wheat Harvest and Grape Harvest came later. Did you know that Barley doesn't;t need to be CRUSHED (look it up) to be SIFTED, but Wheat does. So, a tool was used, in Greek, it's called the TRIBULUM, and that is where the word Tribulation comes from, NO KIDDING. Thus, the Wheat (Israel) has to be crushed before they can be sifted by the 70th week, the Barely doesn't have to be Crushed (Christ's Church is already repentant, Israel have yet to repent as a Nation). So, we see the Wheat in Rev. 14 that grows together with the Wicked Tares until the very end who are cast into the Winepress of God's Wrath in verses 17-20, but in the middle of the chapter, in verse 14, we see a FLASHBACK to the Pre Trib Rapture where Jesus himself Harvsts his Church from upon a cloud.

There is no use looking for Jesus to tell the Gentiles their fate, he was sent unto the Jews ONLY. But, he does have to tell the Disciples their fate in Matt. 24, if we listen carefully because some Jews will be a part of the Raptured Bride. Thus in verses 15-31 Jesus speaks about the 70th-week tribulation, and him coming back and saving the Jews hiding in the Petra/Bozrah area. Then in verses 36-51 Jesus explains in a parable the coming Rapture. He says that it will be just like in the days of Noah when they were eating, drinking, and marrying, and then the flood came and took them all away. Using common-sense, before the flood came is equal to BEFORE the Pre Trib Rapture, not the Second Coming. The Tribulation = THE FLOOD !! Thus do you think people living on earth will be drinking, marrying, etc. just before Jesus' Second Coming? I don't, they will be running and trying to dodge God's Judgments. Thus the Pre Trib Rapture is the only thing that fits.

The 7 Feasts also fit, stop looking for a bible written by ALL Jews, and written fr the Jews to describe a mostly Gentile Event unto you. Paul was told about this Rapture and describes it in 2. Thess. 2, but Satan has tried to confuse the language, the Falling Away, means a DEPARTURE ob the Church, not from the Faith. NOWHERE in the whole Chater is faith spoken of, it's about the GATHERING unto Christ Jesus BEFORE the Day of Gods' Wrath falls. The mantle taken from the Jews and given unto the Gentiles is the time of the Gentiles, thus when the 70th week starts, we have to be gone.

The 7 Feasts tell the whole story if people would just open their eyes. God gave us the whole story of mankind in these Feasts or Holy Convocations, which means Dress Rehearsals.

Jesus Fulfilled the Three Spring Feasts
1. Passover (Jesus is our Passover)
2.) Feasts of Unleavened Bread (Jesus was WITHOUT Sin)
3.) Feast of First-fruits (Jesus was te First-fruits of te Grave)

Summer Harvest/Pentecost/Feast of Weeks this was all alone on the Calander by itself, just like the Church Age
4.) Feast of Weeks or Summer Harvest (The Church Age as we know it, we are Harvesting Souls for Jesus Christ, the Summer Harvest ALWAYS ENDED via the Feast of Trumps, thus I have to get ahead of myself here. The LAST TRUMP, Paul spoke of is referring to the 100th Trump during the Feast of Trumpets each year, the LAST TRUMP always ended the Summer Harvest. Thus in order to know when the New Moon started the new year and thus ended the Harvest, the Jews ha to send out TWO-WITNESSES over a two day period of time, and as soon as they reported back that the New Moon had appeared, the Jews blew the Shofar 11 times in 9 batches which = 99, then at the LAST TRUMP, it blew LOnger and Louder than the other 99 and thus the Summer Harvest was OFFICIALLY OVER. (In Rev. 4:1 we see Jesus is said to sound as a TRUMP, he calls John up to heaven), that is the Pre Trib Rapture that ENDS the Summer Harvest or CHURCH AGE. Thus we see the Church in Heaven in Rev. 4:4 and 5:9 BEFORE the Seals are even opened. Thus the LAST TRUMP as zero to do with any Revelation Trumpet Judgment. )

Fall Feasts Jesus/God are yet to fulfill
5.) Feast of Trumps (This end the CHURCH AGE, when Jesus blows the Trump the Harvest time of the Gentiles is over. The Feast of Trumps also announce har the Feasts of Atonement and Tabernacle were both nigh at hand.

6.) Feast of Atonement (Who needs to ATONE? Israel has to ATONE before then 70th week can come to pass, so says Dan. 9:24-27. Thus after the Church is Raptured, the Jews (who are ALL Israel) are back on the clock, they must repent during the 70th week, and Zechariah 13:8-9 shows that 1/3 of the Jews REPENTS and that 2/3 refuse to do so and will thus perish. The very next verse (Zechaiah 14:1) says BEHOLD the Day of the Lord (God's Wrath) has come. Then in verses 1 and 2 Jerusalem gets conquered. So, Israel REPENTS just before the coming DOTL 1260 events.)

7.) Feast of Tabernacles (the word Tabernacle means to DWELL with God, thus Jesus reigning as the King of kings from Jerusalem fulfills that, he will DWELL in Jerusalem amongst the Jews.

Thus, if we listen, God is telling us these things ahead of time. Stop trying to get a bible written by Jews about Jews to tell you about the Rapture of the Gentiles, it's in there, but you have to dig it out. Jesus was not sent to the Gentiles, but he did send Paul unto the Gentiles and Paul explained the Rapture, many people twist the facts. You make an error expecting a Jewish Bible to explain Non-Jewish things unto you. Jesus was sent only unto the Jews.

I can explain the trinity, which is not in the bible either. Yu ant read Rev, 19, where we te Church returns with Jesus and the Beast, and his minions are STILL ON EARTH, and not understand the Rapture has to be Pre Trib. The above 7 Feasts explain it also, in vivid detail.

 

[Rondonmon]

CONTINUED

It's not in Rev 3:10 - you would have to add your own words there as no rapture is stated or even referred to AND our Lord already clarified how He will "keep us from the hour of temptation".

In this verse Jesus tells the Church they will not go through the tribulation, BUT in Rev. 2:10, Rev. 3:5, and Rev. 3:21 we see THREE THINGS that those seen in Rev. 4:4 have which are PROMISES to the Church who OVERCOME.

Rev. 2:10 = the CROWN of life. Rev. 3:5 = the White Raiment and Rev. 3:21 = Sitting at the THRONE. Then in Rev. 4:4 we see that have ALL THREE of these Promises !!

Rev. 4:4 And round about the throne were four and twenty seats: and upon the seats I saw four and twenty elders sitting, clothed in white raiment; and they had on their heads crowns of gold.

This is God SCREAMING at you, this is MY CURCH which OVERCAME !! In Rev. 5:9 we see they are REDEEMED by the blood of the Lamb and are called kings and priests.

Revelation is clear that the Saints are THERE, on earth witnessing for Christ during the Great Tribulation
Revelation 6: 9-11 definitively states the Saints/His Elect/His Church are not pre-trib raptured
Revelation 7: 11-14 definitively states the Saints are in Great Tribulation and "come out" from the midst of it.
Revelation 20: 4-5 definitively states the Saints who endured the GT are part of the First Resurrection.

Yes, those who get saved AFTER the Rapture, they are going to b Martyred, not witnessing per se although that may be the greatest witness of all. There are 5 Virgin Brides who do not make the wedding in Heaven. You ADDED Church to Rev. 6:9-11. Rev. 9-17 is speaking about the Rapturedv Church none of these can come out of the 70th week Tribulation and I can prove that via the scriptures. In Rev. 6 at the 5th Seal, Jesus tells them they MUST WAIT until all of their brothers have been killed in like manner as they have. Then in Rev. 20:4, we see those who were Martyred for Jesus during the tribulation do not get RAISED & JUDGED until AFTER the Second Coming !! BOOM

Thus they are indeed part of the First Resurrection, the Ressurection of this in Christ over a 7 year period of time. The Second Resurrection comes 1000 years later. Those seen in Rev. 7:9-17 came of out the 2000 some odd year Church Age TRibulstion where millions of our brothers died in this evil, wicked world. Jesus said in John 16:33 that we would have Continual Tribulation on this earth, but be not afraid for I have overcome this world. Thus those seen in Heaven in Rev. 7:9-17, just like those seen in Rev. 4:4 and 5:9 are the RAPTURED CHURCH. Who came out of the 2000 some odd year Great as in 2000>7. We try to LIMIT how God can use the word GREAT.

Revelation agrees with Daniel 7 and all the Scripture stated below.

1 Thessalonians ch4 Apostle Paul definitively states NO Rapture until the Resurrection at the Coming of the Lord
2 Thessalonians Paul again, definitively states that NO Rapture until the "falling away and the man of sin"
1 John 2:18 Apostle John definitively states that the Antichrist comes along with the "falling away" = "they went out from us"
Mark 24:10 Jesus definitively states that people will "fall away" before His coming.

In LIGHT of the overwhelming words of our LORD and the Apostles and Daniel - Where in Revelation is the pre-trib rapture???

Not adding to or taking away from God's words are His Love in me and unto Him - Amen

Paul says no such thing, those who do not understand are just being hoodwinked by Satan.

 

[Rondonmon]

John 10:28 And I give to them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand.


Endurance? Endurance. We can endure to the end of anything because we have God's Holy Spirit within us, and Jesus as our armour.

Anyone can renounce God just like Judas did. Don't kid yourself with the once saved always saved jargon.

 

[DavidTree]

I will show you, but what you don't seem to grasp is Jesis same for the Jews ONLY, he said so, not anyone else, he wouldn't even listen to a Samaritan woman, but eventually healed her daughter because of her great faith. So, Jesus spoke about when he would rescue the Jews, at the Second Coming, you confuse that with the Rapture of the Church.

Did you know the Three Harvests can be seen in Rev. 14? The Jews always celebrated THREE Harvests, the Barley Harvest came first, the Wheat Harvest and Grape Harvest came later. Did you know that Barley doesn't;t need to be CRUSHED (look it up) to be SIFTED, but Wheat does. So, a tool was used, in Greek, it's called the TRIBULUM, and that is where the word Tribulation comes from, NO KIDDING. Thus, the Wheat (Israel) has to be crushed before they can be sifted by the 70th week, the Barely doesn't have to be Crushed (Christ's Church is already repentant, Israel have yet to repent as a Nation). So, we see the Wheat in Rev. 14 that grows together with the Wicked Tares until the very end who are cast into the Winepress of God's Wrath in verses 17-20, but in the middle of the chapter, in verse 14, we see a FLASHBACK to the Pre Trib Rapture where Jesus himself Harvsts his Church from upon a cloud.

There is no use looking for Jesus to tell the Gentiles their fate, he was sent unto the Jews ONLY. But, he does have to tell the Disciples their fate in Matt. 24, if we listen carefully because some Jews will be a part of the Raptured Bride. Thus in verses 15-31 Jesus speaks about the 70th-week tribulation, and him coming back and saving the Jews hiding in the Petra/Bozrah area. Then in verses 36-51 Jesus explains in a parable the coming Rapture. He says that it will be just like in the days of Noah when they were eating, drinking, and marrying, and then the flood came and took them all away. Using common-sense, before the flood came is equal to BEFORE the Pre Trib Rapture, not the Second Coming. The Tribulation = THE FLOOD !! Thus do you think people living on earth will be drinking, marrying, etc. just before Jesus' Second Coming? I don't, they will be running and trying to dodge God's Judgments. Thus the Pre Trib Rapture is the only thing that fits.

The 7 Feasts also fit, stop looking for a bible written by ALL Jews, and written fr the Jews to describe a mostly Gentile Event unto you. Paul was told about this Rapture and describes it in 2. Thess. 2, but Satan has tried to confuse the language, the Falling Away, means a DEPARTURE ob the Church, not from the Faith. NOWHERE in the whole Chater is faith spoken of, it's about the GATHERING unto Christ Jesus BEFORE the Day of Gods' Wrath falls. The mantle taken from the Jews and given unto the Gentiles is the time of the Gentiles, thus when the 70th week starts, we have to be gone.

The 7 Feasts tell the whole story if people would just open their eyes. God gave us the whole story of mankind in these Feasts or Holy Convocations, which means Dress Rehearsals.

Jesus Fulfilled the Three Spring Feasts
1. Passover (Jesus is our Passover)
2.) Feasts of Unleavened Bread (Jesus was WITHOUT Sin)
3.) Feast of First-fruits (Jesus was te First-fruits of te Grave)

Summer Harvest/Pentecost/Feast of Weeks this was all alone on the Calander by itself, just like the Church Age
4.) Feast of Weeks or Summer Harvest (The Church Age as we know it, we are Harvesting Souls for Jesus Christ, the Summer Harvest ALWAYS ENDED via the Feast of Trumps, thus I have to get ahead of myself here. The LAST TRUMP, Paul spoke of is referring to the 100th Trump during the Feast of Trumpets each year, the LAST TRUMP always ended the Summer Harvest. Thus in order to know when the New Moon started the new year and thus ended the Harvest, the Jews ha to send out TWO-WITNESSES over a two day period of time, and as soon as they reported back that the New Moon had appeared, the Jews blew the Shofar 11 times in 9 batches which = 99, then at the LAST TRUMP, it blew LOnger and Louder than the other 99 and thus the Summer Harvest was OFFICIALLY OVER. (In Rev. 4:1 we see Jesus is said to sound as a TRUMP, he calls John up to heaven), that is the Pre Trib Rapture that ENDS the Summer Harvest or CHURCH AGE. Thus we see the Church in Heaven in Rev. 4:4 and 5:9 BEFORE the Seals are even opened. Thus the LAST TRUMP as zero to do with any Revelation Trumpet Judgment. )

Fall Feasts Jesus/God are yet to fulfill
5.) Feast of Trumps (This end the CHURCH AGE, when Jesus blows the Trump the Harvest time of the Gentiles is over. The Feast of Trumps also announce har the Feasts of Atonement and Tabernacle were both nigh at hand.

6.) Feast of Atonement (Who needs to ATONE? Israel has to ATONE before then 70th week can come to pass, so says Dan. 9:24-27. Thus after the Church is Raptured, the Jews (who are ALL Israel) are back on the clock, they must repent during the 70th week, and Zechariah 13:8-9 shows that 1/3 of the Jews REPENTS and that 2/3 refuse to do so and will thus perish. The very next verse (Zechaiah 14:1) says BEHOLD the Day of the Lord (God's Wrath) has come. Then in verses 1 and 2 Jerusalem gets conquered. So, Israel REPENTS just before the coming DOTL 1260 events.)

7.) Feast of Tabernacles (the word Tabernacle means to DWELL with God, thus Jesus reigning as the King of kings from Jerusalem fulfills that, he will DWELL in Jerusalem amongst the Jews.

Thus, if we listen, God is telling us these things ahead of time. Stop trying to get a bible written by Jews about Jews to tell you about the Rapture of the Gentiles, it's in there, but you have to dig it out. Jesus was not sent to the Gentiles, but he did send Paul unto the Gentiles and Paul explained the Rapture, many people twist the facts. You make an error expecting a Jewish Bible to explain Non-Jewish things unto you. Jesus was sent only unto the Jews.

I can explain the trinity, which is not in the bible either. Yu ant read Rev, 19, where we te Church returns with Jesus and the Beast, and his minions are STILL ON EARTH, and not understand the Rapture has to be Pre Trib. The above 7 Feasts explain it also, in vivid detail.

Thank You for all this - There is a large amount of very interesting and beautiful words from you - so it will take me some time to review.

i will not address all that you have said here, but will take this one point at a time/posting
i think this is fair and loving to you since you took the time to respond in great detail - thank you

First - Jesus is not the same for the Jews only - false doctrine to start with which, as in the error of pre-trib, this now taints your understanding of the Gospel and our Lord Jesus Christ - so you need to correct that with God's word - right away.

Here is your Remedy as you completely missed the LOVE of Christ - John chapter 4

When a Samaritan woman came to draw water, Jesus said to her, “Give Me a drink.” (His disciples had gone into the town to buy food.)
“You are a Jew,” said the woman. “How can You ask for a drink from me, a Samaritan woman?” (For Jews do not associate with Samaritans.)
Jesus answered, “If you knew the gift of God and who is asking you for a drink, you would have asked Him, and He would have given you living water.”
“Sir,” the woman replied, “You have nothing to draw with and the well is deep. Where then will You get this living water? Are You greater than our father Jacob, who gave us this well and drank from it himself, as did his sons and his livestock?”
Jesus said to her, “Everyone who drinks this water will be thirsty again. But whoever drinks the water I give him will never thirst. Indeed, the water I give him will become in him a fount of water springing up to eternal life.”
The woman said to Him, “Sir, give me this water so that I will not get thirsty and have to keep coming here to draw water.”
“I have no husband,” the woman replied.
Jesus said to her, “You are correct to say that you have no husband. In fact, you have had five husbands, and the man you now have is not your husband. You have spoken truthfully.”

“Sir,” the woman said, “I see that You are a prophet. Our fathers worshiped on this mountain, but you Jews say that the place where one must worship is in Jerusalem.”

“Believe Me, woman,” Jesus replied, “a time is coming when you will worship the Father neither on this mountain nor in Jerusalem. You worship what you do not know; we worship what we do know, for salvation is from the Jews. But a time is coming and has now come when the true worshipers will worship the Father in spirit and in truth, for the Father is seeking such as these to worship Him. God is Spirit, and His worshipers must worship Him in spirit and in truth.”

The woman said, “I know that Messiah” (called Christ) “is coming. When He comes, He will explain everything to us.”
Jesus answered, “I who speak to you( Samaritan Woman) am He.”

Let this sink deep into your heart and repent from this- "JESUS to the Jew only" falsehood.

i love you Brother and care about you and all who have been deceived by the error of pre-trib.

i will continue to address(later) the Barley vs Wheat as well as the Holy Spirit is full of Joy in me.

 

[Icedaisey]

Anyone can renounce God just like Judas did. Don't kid yourself with the once saved always saved jargon.

Jargon? How absurd.

Judas was forgiven. And in the scripture that says the Devil entered into him? Right. That's an opinion of the scribe. Otherwise, had they thought about it they'd have never said that. Because Jesus dying on the cross insured Satan's defeat in his power over death prior to that.

Jesus, who foreknew his destiny as God, told Judas to go and do what he must do.
And God forgave him. And Judas repented and then cursed himself, cursed is anyone who hangs on a tree, when he hanged himself after Christ was arrested and tortured. Because Judas didn't know that was going to happen.
Jesus forgave Judas as he did all gathered at the foot of his cross, cursed is he who is hanged on a tree, when he asked the Father to forgive them, for they know not what they do. Judas had no idea his turning Jesus over to the Sanhedrin would result in his death.

Judas was part of the plan.
OSAS= Once Sealed Always Sealed.

For you to be right, post the scripture where God tells us if we do something wrong in His eyes He'll remove His seal. And reverse all that we were blessed with, rebirth, new creation, forgiven sins tempered no more, etc....

Post, scripture that states exactly those things.

Eternal Salvation.
But you think there are conditions. That's not being eternally Saved by Omniscient Sovereign God.

Yes...and Jesus brought that law home to the heart by saying that we ought not to even lust.

If we do lust, the law, as Jesus re-defined it, convicts us as sinners; it shows us that we are sinners in need of a Saviour (Romans 3:20).

Again?

 

[DavidTree]

Reference Post #149
Your first error of "Jesus to the Jew only" = it is a very serious when you seek to change the Gospel and isolate the Lord Jesus Christ unto the lie of pre-trib.
Gospel of John chapter 4 - JESUS with the Samaitan woman completely destroys this error of "Jesus to the Jew only"

John 1:11-13: He came to His own, and His own did not receive Him.
But to all who did receive Him, to those who believed in His name, He gave the right to become children of God— children born not of blood, nor of the desire or will of man, but born of God.

The Gospel of John exposes and destroys the lie of pre-trib rapture which uses other lies to deceive such as "Jesus to the Jew only."

God has made this clear - His Bride/His Body/His Elect are Jew and Gentile saved by ONE Gospel - The Blood of Christ Shed for us.
**********************************************************************************************************************************************************************

You said" "Jesus spoke about when he would rescue the Jews, at the Second Coming, you confuse that with the Rapture of the Church"

God has spoken to us, Jew & Gentile, His Bride/His Church/His Elect/the Saints, through His Son. - Hebrews 1:1
His Son never spoke of a pre-trib rapture - Those words never came out of His Mouth.
This is what He did say:
But He answered and said, “It is written, ‘Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceeds from the mouth of God.’ ”

When a believer clings unto the lie of pre-trib they are believing a false prophecy from false teachers and false prophets.

JESUS, the Groom, spoke to His Bride/His Elect concerning His Second Coming -
So John’s disciples came to him and said, “Look, Rabbi, the One/Jesus who was with you beyond the Jordan, the One/Jesus you testified about—He is baptizing, and everyone is going to Him.”
John replied, “A man can receive only what is given him from heaven. You yourselves can testify that I said, ‘I am not the Christ, but am sent ahead of Him.’ The bride belongs to the bridegroom. John 3:26-29

Jesus said to her, “I am the resurrection and the life. He who believes in Me, though he may die, he shall live.

Jesus never said - I am the rapture - no, "HE said I am the RESURRECTION". - John 11:25

There is no pre-trib rapture in the Gospels - It does not exist - never came from the Mouth of God.

What did come from the Mouth of God concerning the Jews is this:

O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, who kills the prophets and stones those sent to her, how often I have longed to gather your children together, as a hen gathers her chicks under her wings, but you were unwilling! Look, your house is left to you desolate. For I tell you that you will not see Me again until you say, ‘Blessed is He who comes in the name of the Lord.’ Matthew 23: 37-39

We have covered so far your first two statements that have been corrected by our LORD and His Gospel.

 

[ewq1938]

Jargon? How absurd.

Judas was forgiven. And in the scripture that says the Devil entered into him? Right. That's an opinion of the scribe.

Scribes don't write scripture. It wasn't an opinion of anyone it was eyewitness testimony of what happened. The devil did enter Judas plus he is doomed to hell anyways. He was not forgiven.

What does scripture say about Judas?


1: Judas was a devil..................................John 6:70-71
2: Judas was a traitor................................Luke 6:16
3: Judas was a betrayer.............................Multiple scriptures.
4: Judas was a thief..................................John 12:6
5: Judas didn't care for the poor..................John 12:6
6: Judas was spiritually unclean..................John 13:11
7: Judas guilty of a greater sin...................John 19:11
8: Judas is a wicked man............................Psalms 109:6
9: Judas is condemned...............................Psalms 109:7
10: Judas is lost........................................John 17:12
11: Judas is the son of perdition..................John 17:12
12: Judas' prayer is sin................................Psalms 109:7
13: Judas deserves no mercy.......................Psalms 109:12
14: Judas committed suicide........................Matthew 27:5
15: Judas influenced by Satan......................John 13:2
16: Judas had Satan within him....................Luke 22:3-6
17: Judas harmed Christ..............................John 13:18, Psalms 41:9
18: Judas better off never born....................Mark 14:18-2, Matthew 26:24
19: Judas knew he sinned against Jesus........Matthew 27:3-5
20: Judas' habitation to be desolate.............Acts 1:20, Psalms 69:25

 

[Rondonmon]

First - Jesus is not the same for the Jews only - false doctrine to start with which, as in the error of pre-trib, this now taints your understanding of the Gospel and our Lord Jesus Christ - so you need to correct that with God's word - right away.

I assume you meant SENT for the Jews only. (I have lots of typos also on here, you can only edit for 5 minutes, which makes no sense, so I don't even try) So my reply would be this.

Matt. 15:22 And, behold, a woman of Canaan came out of the same coasts, and cried unto him, saying, Have mercy on me, O Lord, thou son of David; my daughter is grievously vexed with a devil. 23 But he answered her not a word. And his disciples came and besought him, saying, Send her away; for she crieth after us.

24 But he answered and said, I am not sent but unto the lost sheep of the house of Israel.

When I say Jews I, of course, mean Israel because te Jews are ALL Israel, the bible can prove this in Ezekiel 37.

So, unless Jesus lied, it's not a false doctrine, he would even let the 70 he sent out while he was still alive go unto the Gentiles.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
The rest I can answer like this, I didn't say Jesus was not sent as a Sacrifice for the whole world, I stated Jesus' Ministry was unto the Jews ONLY. We are speaking about DOCTRINES given by Jesus. He was able to be merciful unto the woman WITHOUT Ministering unto her like he ministered unto the Jews. Jesus was sent unto the Jews only, thus just like he refused to even speak to the Samaritan woman,

 

[Icedaisey]

Scribes don't write scripture. It wasn't an opinion of anyone it was eyewitness testimony of what happened. The devil did enter Judas plus he is doomed to hell anyways. He was not forgiven.

What does scripture say about Judas?


1: Judas was a devil..................................John 6:70-71
2: Judas was a traitor................................Luke 6:16
3: Judas was a betrayer.............................Multiple scriptures.
4: Judas was a thief..................................John 12:6
5: Judas didn't care for the poor..................John 12:6
6: Judas was spiritually unclean..................John 13:11
7: Judas guilty of a greater sin...................John 19:11
8: Judas is a wicked man............................Psalms 109:6
9: Judas is condemned...............................Psalms 109:7
10: Judas is lost........................................John 17:12
11: Judas is the son of perdition..................John 17:12
12: Judas' prayer is sin................................Psalms 109:7
13: Judas deserves no mercy.......................Psalms 109:12
14: Judas committed suicide........................Matthew 27:5
15: Judas influenced by Satan......................John 13:2
16: Judas had Satan within him....................Luke 22:3-6
17: Judas harmed Christ..............................John 13:18, Psalms 41:9
18: Judas better off never born....................Mark 14:18-2, Matthew 26:24
19: Judas knew he sinned against Jesus........Matthew 27:3-5
20: Judas' habitation to be desolate.............Acts 1:20, Psalms 69:25

The son of Perdition was not Judas.

How Was the Bible Written and Transmitted?
The earliest biblical texts were written on scrolls made from papyrus (a plant-based paper) or parchment (animal skins that had been scraped, burnished, and stitched together). It is very likely that all biblical books were initially written on scrolls. Only in the second or third century C.E. did scribes begin to write on papyrus or parchment that was folded and stitched into a codex, which more closely resembles our modern print book. After the invention of the codex, Christians tended to copy their scriptures into codex form, whereas Jews traditionally continued to copy their scriptures in scroll form.

In the ancient Near East, at the time when the biblical books were written and copied, scribes did the work of composing and preserving important documents. Scribes were special because they could read and write; literacy was not widespread. Scribes were also editors. A scribe might take several different scrolls with something in common and compile a single book out of them, or scribes living in different times and places might edit similar scrolls together in different ways. Say, for example, that a Jewish scribe living in Egypt possessed a number of scrolls and other written and oral traditions associated with the prophet Jeremiah. That scribe edited these texts and traditions together into a unified scroll, now called the scroll of Jeremiah. Perhaps another scribe living in Jerusalem then received a copy of this scroll but edited the text to reflect his own community’s theology and understanding of Jeremiah’s legacy. In this way, different communities would have distinct versions of the scroll of Jeremiah, and both these versions would circulate. We know that something like this process actually occurred, since different versions of the book of Jeremiah—and other biblical texts, too—existed side by side in the Dead Sea Scrolls and in other ancient versions and translations (the Masoretic and Septuagint texts of Jeremiah, for instance, also differ). Processes like this occurred numerous times before there was even a “Bible” as we know it.

The biblical books had to be copied over again and again so that they could be preserved for other people to read them. The process of rewriting the books of the Bible was not always perfect—sometimes mistakes were introduced or words were added or dropped. We call this whole process, including the accurate copies and the mistakes, the transmission of the text. That is, the text is transmitted (and sometimes changed) by who copied the ancient scrolls over and over again. Full Article





And I believe Judas was forgiven. He served God's will. Which is why Jesus told his Disciples he would be given over by one of them.Otherwise, how would Jesus have been crucified?

It was accomplished because everyone obeyed God's will.

 

[ewq1938]

The son of Perdition was not Judas.

Joh 17:12 While I was with them in the world, I kept them in thy name: those that thou gavest me I have kept, and none of them is lost, but the son of perdition; that the scripture might be fulfilled.

Barnes:

But the son of perdition - See the notes at Mat_1:1. The term son was given by the Hebrews to those who possessed the character described by the word or name following. Thus, sons of Belial - those who possessed his character; children of wisdom those who were wise, Mat_11:19. Thus Judas is called a son of perdition because he had the character of a destroyer. He was a traitor and a murderer. And this shows that he who knew the heart regarded his character as that of a wicked man one whose appropriate name was that of a son of perdition.

Clarke:

But the son of perdition - So we find that Judas, whom all account to have been lost, and whose case at best is extremely dubious, was first given by God to Christ? But why was he lost? Because, says St. Augustin, he would not be saved: and he farther adds, After the commission of his crime, he might have returned to God and have found mercy. Aug. Serm. 125; n. 5; Psa_146:1-10. n. 20; Ser. 352, n. 8; and in Psa_108:1-13. See Calmet, who remarks: Judas only became the son of perdition because of his wilful malice, his abuse of the grace and instructions of Christ, and was condemned through his own avarice, perfidy, insensibility, and despair.

 

[justbyfaith]

Nope - adding again - 1 cor 9:21 is about Paul seeking to win those under the Law as though he also is, but He is Not since he is under the Law of Christ - TWO different laws.

You speak of the Spirit but do not speaks the words of the Spirit.

In 1 Corinthians 9:21 (kjv), Paul says that he is under the law to Christ; not that he is under the law of Christ.

 

[Icedaisey]

I assume you meant SENT for the Jews only. (I have lots of typos also on here, you can only edit for 5 minutes, which makes no sense, so I don't even try) So my reply would be this.

Matt. 15:22 And, behold, a woman of Canaan came out of the same coasts, and cried unto him, saying, Have mercy on me, O Lord, thou son of David; my daughter is grievously vexed with a devil. 23 But he answered her not a word. And his disciples came and besought him, saying, Send her away; for she crieth after us.

24 But he answered and said, I am not sent but unto the lost sheep of the house of Israel.

When I say Jews I, of course, mean Israel because te Jews are ALL Israel, the bible can prove this in Ezekiel 37.

So, unless Jesus lied, it's not a false doctrine, he would even let the 70 he sent out while he was still alive go unto the Gentiles.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
The rest I can answer like this, I didn't say Jesus was not sent as a Sacrifice for the whole world, I stated Jesus' Ministry was unto the Jews ONLY. We are speaking about DOCTRINES given by Jesus. He was able to be merciful unto the woman WITHOUT Ministering unto her like he ministered unto the Jews. Jesus was sent unto the Jews only, thus just like he refused to even speak to the Samaritan woman,

Remember Matthew 15:28 . Right after Jesus told the Gentile woman He was sent only to the lost sheep of the house of Israel he healed her daughter because her faith was great.

Then Jesus answered her, 28.“O woman, great is your faith! Be it done for you as you desire.” And her daughter was healed instantly.



Jesus was sent to the lost sheep of the house of Israel to personally minister through his words, his miracles, as their promised Messiah. Because the, over the Children of Israel had grown hardened and indifferent to the things of God.
Interestingly, over 2000+ years later they still are. Because they don't believe Jesus was Messiah.

Remember too, Jesus later said He had other sheep not of this flock (Israel) to bring to Him also. Those were the Gentiles.