About the book of Job

[2ndTimothyGroup]

no mysterious reason, he could have done the same with Adam and Eve and started everything again but they were also angels in the story.

It's a good point. We see the Lord preventing sin in the life of king Abimelech:

Genesis 20:2-6 NET - "Abraham said about his wife Sarah, "She is my sister." So Abimelech, king of Gerar, sent for Sarah and took her. But God appeared to Abimelech in a dream at night and said to him, "You are as good as dead because of the woman you have taken, for she is someone else's wife." Now Abimelech had not gone near her. He said, "Lord, would you really slaughter an innocent nation? Did Abraham not say to me, 'She is my sister'? And she herself said, 'He is my brother.' I have done this with a clear conscience and with innocent hands!" Then in the dream God replied to him, "Yes, I know that you have done this with a clear conscience. That is why I have kept you from sinning against me and why I did not allow you to touch her."

 

[2ndTimothyGroup]

They shouldn't. Anyway they seemed more interested in the Talmud, in fact there are two Talmuds. And many Jews don't speak Hebrew and many don't know anything about the Torah. Once I spoke with one who was trying to learn Hebrew and the Torah and practising the Shabbat. But he didn't know anything about the word "Nephilim", he thought I was speaking about "Natinim".

That's a disappointing view. Then again, it makes perfect sense as I consider the last time I spoke to my former best friend, who happened to be Jewish. We were discussing the Tanakh and I found him to be incredibly difficult to discuss anything that had to do with what they believe. Eventually, I just stopped talking to him. Friendship over.

 

[2ndTimothyGroup]

The Talmud seems to be more important. I remember the story of a man who wanted more than the words of his Rabbin, he wanted to know what he did, in fact how he behaved with his wife in bed, so he hide below their bed.

Yikes. That's the last thing I'd be curious about. As for the Talmud - that's on my list of literature to collect. I do love extra-biblical writings, finding them to be fascinating. The Book of Jubilees is incredible.

 

[2ndTimothyGroup]

the dialogue between God and Job starting from JOB 38 to the end (not forgetting 38:3 and 40:7 when God says please to Job, if it's written in your Bible))

For what its worth, my Jewish Tanakh doesn't include the word "Please" in either of the verses. Interesting.

 

[iTheophilus]

For what its worth, my Jewish Tanakh doesn't include the word "Please" in either of the verses. Interesting.

I'm wondering if the "please" is an inference due to Almighty God's pleading? Chapter 38 is heartbreakingly incredible—the LOVE of God! I'll share a small portion of it....and Chapter 39 is equally amazing!

Then the LORD answered Job out of the whirlwind, and said: "Who is this who darkens counsel By words without knowledge? Now prepare yourself like a man; I will question you, and you shall answer Me. "Where were you when I laid the foundations of the earth? Tell Me, if you have understanding. Who determined its measurements? Surely you know! Or who stretched the line upon it? To what were its foundations fastened? Or who laid its cornerstone, When the morning stars sang together, And all the sons of God shouted for joy? "Or who shut in the sea with doors, When it burst forth and issued from the womb; When I made the clouds its garment, And thick darkness its swaddling band; When I said, 'This far you may come, but no farther, And here your proud waves must stop!' - Job 38:1-11

 

[Gideon300]

When we start to read the book of Job, it is said that he had everything and he believed in God. But he wasn’t only a believer. His faith was alive, it wasn’t only words, he offered sacrifices in case his children act against God, not only by doing something wrong but also by thinking wrong. It tells us a lot about what it means to have a strong relationship with God. According to God, there was no one like him on Earth regarding integrity and going away from badness. When we listen to the news, we must admit our society is completely at the opposite, getting away from goodness and looking for darkness, whatever people may try to do. Everything goes wrong. It doesn’t mean we don’t have to fight, on the contrary, but we need energy and a good example such as Job. To prove the rare relationship between God and Job, God lets Satan get rid of all Job’s belongings except Job himself. Then he lost everything (animals, servants, children). At the end of chapter one, Job expresses his pain but also his total respect for God.

Job knew much about God but he did not know God as a person. As a result, Job misunderstood God, hence his complaint. It's a wonderful example of how God wants to relate to us. We can know about Jesus from what we read in the Bible. He is the one with the robe, the beard and the sandals, healing the sick and raising the dead. We can, and should, get to know Him as the Lord of All, the King of Kings, but also as the Friend of sinners like us. We can accept all the teachings and all the facts about Jesus and yet still not accept Him.

John 17:3 Now this is eternal life, that they may know You, the only TRUE God, and Jesus Christ, whom You have sent.

Job 40:1 & 2
And the LORD said to Job: “Will the faultfinder contend with the Almighty? Let him who argues with God give an answer.”

Job 42: 1-6
Then Job replied to the LORD: “I know that You can do all things and that no plan of Yours can be thwarted. You asked, ‘Who is this who conceals My counsel without knowledge?’ Surely I spoke of things I did not understand, things too wonderful for me to know. You said, ‘Listen now, and I will speak. I will question you, and you shall inform Me.’ My ears had heard of You, but now my eyes have seen You. Therefore I retract my words, and I repent in dust and ashes.”

I have no doubt that Job met the Lord Jesus before He was born on the earth. It's good to know the Book of the Lord. How much better to know the Lord of the Book

 

[Icedaisey]

What mystifies me about Job is how, though he was a believer, Satan was allowed to torment him. But Colossians 2:15 states that in Christ, the Devil is essentially defeated.

Colossians 2:15 NKJV - "Having disarmed principalities and powers, He made a public spectacle of them, triumphing over them in it."

I have produced a lot of teaching that Satan cannot harm True Children of the Lord, but then we have the story of Job. I hate being wrong . . . but it seems that I might be.

What are your thoughts on this?

I think many a Christian have your same concerns.

For me it is a profound answer.

Yes, there are passages that give assurance Christians are kept secure from the reach of Satan because we are sealed and indwelt by God's Holy Spirit.

I see Job's experience as what happened when God released his protection of Job. Because as God tells us elsewhere in the Bible, he does all that he pleased with his creation.
He's the potter. Job was the clay.

God let Job suffer in order to win a wager with the Devil.
And while God is Omniscient and predestinated all things.

Very concerning indeed.
Especially when it is curious too how Satan is permitted to return to Heaven to confer with God after being cast out.

1 question leads to lots more.

Speaking of Satan being cast out. How is there sin in Heaven? Satan's rebellion.
Heaven is suppose to be the final destination of those redeemed of their sins.

 

[2ndTimothyGroup]

I'm wondering if the "please" is an inference due to Almighty God's pleading? Chapter 38 is heartbreakingly incredible—the LOVE of God! I'll share a small portion of it....and Chapter 39 is equally amazing!

Then the LORD answered Job out of the whirlwind, and said: "Who is this who darkens counsel By words without knowledge? Now prepare yourself like a man; I will question you, and you shall answer Me. "Where were you when I laid the foundations of the earth? Tell Me, if you have understanding. Who determined its measurements? Surely you know! Or who stretched the line upon it? To what were its foundations fastened? Or who laid its cornerstone, When the morning stars sang together, And all the sons of God shouted for joy? "Or who shut in the sea with doors, When it burst forth and issued from the womb; When I made the clouds its garment, And thick darkness its swaddling band; When I said, 'This far you may come, but no farther, And here your proud waves must stop!' - Job 38:1-11

I understand what you're saying and I appreciate your view.

My view is a lot different. To me, this is God mocking Job. Why? Because Job thought he had the right perspective on "things." The Truth is, is that Job was without knowledge. Not good. Because Job was so rude in his speech, God told Job to "brace himself like a man." In other words, "I'm about to rip you a new one."

To me, the above passage is painful to read. He is setting job deeply in his place, and God does that because Job was just such an incredible man? No, I don't think so. The Lord places Job deep in his seat because Job was so far out of line. God is essentially saying, "Who do you think you are, boy?"

But hey, I have been wrong over and over again in this life, and in so many areas.

 

[2ndTimothyGroup]

Job knew much about God but he did not know God as a person. As a result, Job misunderstood God, hence his complaint.

The above quote is spot on. I mean . . . total bullseye, especially when you relate this idea to the modern-day "christian." Certainly, I will say that you described me, for although I THOUGHT I was a True believer, I later came to realize that I was nowhere close. I had virtually little to no proper understanding of God's Word . . . at . . . all.

And if I read your words correctly, it wouldn't surprise me if I have met the Lord prior to becoming a True Child of God. As I look at my past life, while I was a sinful piece of human waste, I can still see that I was always completely different from all others around me. My heart was soft, tender, loving, and sincere. But because I was picked on for this "way" about myself, I became bitter, for in having no support from family and a decent set of friends, I turned to drugs, alcohol, sex . . . all things that made me feel better. I was miserable in this world, but sought the pleasures of the Devil to simply make me feel better . . . to help put a smile on my face.

Job, obviously, wasn't in my condition, for the Lord had a most positive view of Job prior to his insane inflictions. I am just saying that my sinful life proved that I did not know who God was in a deep and personal way as I do now.

Having experienced the Raw, Almighty, Power of God, I was humbled perhaps in a similar way that of Job. (God, forgive me if I have overstepped my limits in my above wording.)

 

[2ndTimothyGroup]

I think many a Christian have your same concerns.

For me it is a profound answer.

Yes, there are passages that give assurance Christians are kept secure from the reach of Satan because we are sealed and indwelt by God's Holy Spirit.

I see Job's experience as what happened when God released his protection of Job. Because as God tells us elsewhere in the Bible, he does all that he pleased with his creation.
He's the potter. Job was the clay.

God let Job suffer in order to win a wager with the Devil.
And while God is Omniscient and predestinated all things.

Very concerning indeed.
Especially when it is curious too how Satan is permitted to return to Heaven to confer with God after being cast out.

1 question leads to lots more.

Speaking of Satan being cast out. How is there sin in Heaven? Satan's rebellion.
Heaven is suppose to be the final destination of those redeemed of their sins.

SOLID post ALL the way around. The Lord can do all that He wishes, but how can Heaven be Pure if Evil is allowed to enter it?

 

[Icedaisey]

SOLID post ALL the way around. The Lord can do all that He wishes, but how can Heaven be Pure if Evil is allowed to enter it?

Good question.

There are others.

For those who believe unrepentant sinners can go to hell now when they die.
Why do people have to repent of an innate inescapable God ordained condition?

And why do they go to Hell , that was created by God initially to receive Satan and his angels, while Satan was given the office of lord of this world after his fall from paradise? And he and his angels are still here.

Relative to all that.
Jesus words in the Lord's prayer.

" Our father who art in Heaven hallowed be thy name. Thy kingdom come, thy will be done. On earth as it is in heaven."

And here we are.

Why then should we pray? Isn't that asking God to alter his will on earth because we feel we cannot endure to the end?
Matthew 10 & 24.

 

[Absolutely]

For what its worth, my Jewish Tanakh doesn't include the word "Please" in either of the verses. Interesting.

It is probably niv that uses "please".

 

[2ndTimothyGroup]

Good question.

There are others.

For those who believe unrepentant sinners can go to hell now when they die.
Why do people have to repent of an innate inescapable God ordained condition?

And why do they go to Hell , that was created by God initially to receive Satan and his angels, while Satan was given the office of lord of this world after his fall from paradise? And he and his angels are still here.

Relative to all that.
Jesus words in the Lord's prayer.

" Our father who art in Heaven hallowed be thy name. Thy kingdom come, thy will be done. On earth as it is in heaven."

And here we are.

Why then should we pray? Isn't that asking God to alter his will on earth because we feel we cannot endure to the end?
Matthew 10 & 24.

All great questions. As I continue to read and read the Bible in a timeline, chronological order, I do not understand how few see what I see, which is that God is in control of ALL things. All events. Particularly in the Old Testament, the Lord literally determines what people are allowed to think. Just as individual hedges were placed around Satan and Job, we are all controlled to be a specific way. The Curse of the Lord causes us to be a certain way. Possessing the Divine Nature . . . this too, causes us to be a specific way. Hence, the Mind of Christ.

I know people don't like it, but the Bible (to me) seems like we are something akin to rats in a cage, and the only way out is through death.

 

[Icedaisey]

All great questions. As I continue to read and read the Bible in a timeline, chronological order, I do not understand how few see what I see, which is that God is in control of ALL things. All events. Particularly in the Old Testament, the Lord literally determines what people are allowed to think. Just as individual hedges were placed around Satan and Job, we are all controlled to be a specific way. The Curse of the Lord causes us to be a certain way. Possessing the Divine Nature . . . this too, causes us to be a specific way. Hence, the Mind of Christ.

I know people don't like it, but the Bible (to me) seems like we are something akin to rats in a cage, and the only way out is through death.

Rats in a maze.

 

[Icedaisey]

It is probably niv that uses "please".

I didn't find "please" in either chapter 38 or 40 in the NIV version.

I did find a reference to the Pleadies in chapter 38.

This is interesting.
Job 40 ESV, God challenges Job.
12. Look on everyone who is proud and bring him low
and tread down the wicked where they stand.
13 Hide them all in the dust together;
bind their faces in the world below.
14 Then will I also acknowledge to you
that your own right hand can save you.

 

[2ndTimothyGroup]

Rats in a maze.

LOL - And while there is "food" in that maze, that rat WILL follow a specific path to get to it.

 

[2ndTimothyGroup]

I didn't find "please" in either chapter 38 or 40 in the NIV version.

I did find a reference to the Pleadies in chapter 38.

This is interesting.
Job 40 ESV, God challenges Job.
12. Look on everyone who is proud and bring him low
and tread down the wicked where they stand.
13 Hide them all in the dust together;
bind their faces in the world below.
14 Then will I also acknowledge to you
that your own right hand can save you.

Ahhhh . . . the Right Hand of Salvation. Great find.

 

[Icedaisey]

LOL - And while there is "food" in that maze, that rat WILL follow a specific path to get to it.

And having done so , will be able to backtrack to that place where they started. If they so choose.

 

[iTheophilus]

I understand what you're saying and I appreciate your view.

My view is a lot different. To me, this is God mocking Job. Why? Because Job thought he had the right perspective on "things." The Truth is, is that Job was without knowledge. Not good. Because Job was so rude in his speech, God told Job to "brace himself like a man." In other words, "I'm about to rip you a new one."

To me, the above passage is painful to read. He is setting job deeply in his place, and God does that because Job was just such an incredible man? No, I don't think so. The Lord places Job deep in his seat because Job was so far out of line. God is essentially saying, "Who do you think you are, boy?"

But hey, I have been wrong over and over again in this life, and in so many areas.

Job 1:8 "And the Lord said unto Satan, "Hast thou considered My servant Job, that there is none like him in the earth, a perfect and an upright man, one that feareth God, and escheweth evil?"
When God addressed Satan, He asked him, "Have you seen My man Job while you were down there on earth? Today, Satan is still standing before the throne of God as the Accuser, and every time we sin and fall short, Satan is there to call attention to our deeds before God.

Job 1:9 "Then Satan answered the Lord and said, "Doth Job fear God for nought?"
No doubt about it; Satan saw Job and all of his riches and wealth.
Fear can also be another word for revere.

Job 1:10 "Hast not Thou made an hedge about him, and about his house, and about all that he hath on every side? Thou hast blessed the work of his hands, and his substance is increased in the land."
Job and his family had been blessed beyond all other men of the time, and Satan, of course, accuses since that's what "the Accuser" does, right? ....and it's the same way he operates in our lives today.

Job 1:11 "But put forth Thine hand now, and touch all that he hath, and He will curse Thee to Thy face."
Never throughout his ordeal did Job curse God.

Job 1:12 "And the Lord said unto Satan, "Behold, all that he hath is in thy power; only upon himself put not forth thine hand." So Satan went forth from the presence of the Lord."
Satan warned God that if He took all of Job's power and wealth, he would curse Him face to face. But don't you think the Creator (who created Job) knew what kind of man Job was before He created him? I believe that in chapter 38, God is simply reminding Job of what he already knows. Job was always someone God could rely on. That’s why He allowed Satan to do what he did.

This is the same strategy that Satan employs today against Christians. We will all be tested in this final generation. That’s been our destiny before the foundations of this earth age were even laid. We were predestined for it! I truly believe the book of Job is a type of what Christians will face when Satan arrives here on earth at the 6th trump.

 

[Gardenias]

Yikes. That's the last thing I'd be curious about. As for the Talmud - that's on my list of literature to collect. I do love extra-biblical writings, finding them to be fascinating. The Book of Jubilees is incredible.

You can download the Jewish bible online to compare with your version.
Myself I love the poetic words of old English so I mostly use KJV.


Lol does that make me a King James onliest? ......lol