How the Pre-Trib Rapture Became Popular in the Modern Church
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My main focus was to the Harvest of His Elect in Rev 14 verses 13 and 14.
However, you posted the Truth of the End Time Harvest comprising of Two Groups in one specific Time Frame Event' = Matthew 13:30
Mat 13:30 Let both grow together until the harvest: and in the time of harvest I will say to the reapers, Gather ye together first the tares, and bind them in bundles to burn them: but gather the wheat into my barn.
Thank You for pointing this out.
However, you posted the Truth of the End Time Harvest comprising of Two Groups in one specific Time Frame Event' = Matthew 13:30
Mat 13:30 Let both grow together until the harvest: and in the time of harvest I will say to the reapers, Gather ye together first the tares, and bind them in bundles to burn them: but gather the wheat into my barn.
Thank You for pointing this out.
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satan twists and reverses the order of Scripture - dear Brother you did this same sin in placing the rapture first
Matthew 24:29-31
Immediately AFTER the Tribulation..............His Second Coming on the clouds.
1 Thessalonians 4:13-18
v13 Brothers, we do not want you to be uninformed about those who sleep in death, so that you will not grieve like the rest, who are without hope.
v14For since we believe that Jesus died and rose again, we also believe that God will bring with Jesus those who have fallen asleep in Him.
15By the word of the Lord, we declare to you that we who are alive and remain until the coming of the Lord
will by no means precede those who have fallen asleep.
16For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a loud command, with the voice of an archangel, and with the trumpet of God, and the dead in Christ will be the first to rise.
17After that, we who are alive and remain will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And so we will always be with the Lord.
God's Irreversible Order established in Scripture
1.) Tribulation, Persecution, Death for many who choose Eternal Life
2.) His Second Coming
3.) First Resurrection of the dead in Christ
4.) remaining Saints gathered/raptured
5.) Wrath of the Lamb poured out
Whoever seeks to reverse this Order of Scripture foretold by the Prophets, the LORD and the Apostles are in ignorance and SIN.
Matthew 24:29-31
Immediately AFTER the Tribulation..............His Second Coming on the clouds.
1 Thessalonians 4:13-18
v13 Brothers, we do not want you to be uninformed about those who sleep in death, so that you will not grieve like the rest, who are without hope.
v14For since we believe that Jesus died and rose again, we also believe that God will bring with Jesus those who have fallen asleep in Him.
15By the word of the Lord, we declare to you that we who are alive and remain until the coming of the Lord
will by no means precede those who have fallen asleep.
16For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a loud command, with the voice of an archangel, and with the trumpet of God, and the dead in Christ will be the first to rise.
17After that, we who are alive and remain will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And so we will always be with the Lord.
God's Irreversible Order established in Scripture
1.) Tribulation, Persecution, Death for many who choose Eternal Life
2.) His Second Coming
3.) First Resurrection of the dead in Christ
4.) remaining Saints gathered/raptured
5.) Wrath of the Lamb poured out
Whoever seeks to reverse this Order of Scripture foretold by the Prophets, the LORD and the Apostles are in ignorance and SIN.
You have made grave errors in this post. Worse, you did not even know you made errors.
You have joined Matthew 24 coming with the 1 Thes. 4 coming. In short, you pulled both verse OUT OF THEIR CONTEXT to make them say what you imagine they say. Pulling verses out of context is a GRAVE error, done by beginning bible students.
1 Thes. 4
16 For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of an archangel, and with the trumpet of God. And the dead in Christ will rise first. 17 Then we who are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And thus we shall always be with the Lord. 18 Therefore comfort one another with these words. 5:1 But concerning the times and the seasons, brethren, you have no need that I should write to you. 2 For you yourselves know perfectly that the day of the Lord so comes as a thief in the night.
9 For God did not appoint us to wrath, but to obtain salvation [get raptured] through our Lord Jesus Christ, 10 who died for us, that whether we wake or sleep, we should live together with Him.
Please keep in mind, Paul did not divide his epistle with chapters. Notice that in this one passage, we have Jesus coming, (16) the church raised (17) , "the Day of the Lord.," and God's wrath. What is Paul telling us here? He is telling us that His coming to the air and the church caught up, will happen before the Day of the Lord that brings God's wrath. In fact, He is telling us that the rapture will come JUST before wrath. I believe the truth is, His coming (to the clouds) will be the trigger, so to speak, for the rapture. Then the rapture will be the trigger for the DAY.
We could say it another way: it will be "church age" or "the age of grace" right up to the moment of the rapture, but instantly after the rapture it will be the Day of the Lord. We could say, instead of church age, "the dispensation of the Gentile church. I did not say it, Paul did:
17 For if I do this thing willingly, I have a reward: but if against my will, a dispensation of the gospel is committed unto me. (1 Corinthians 9) (Emphasis added.)
2 If ye have heard of the dispensation of the grace of God which is given me to you-ward: (Ephesians 3) (Emphasis added.)
25 Whereof I am made a minister, according to the dispensation of God which is given to me for you, to fulfil the word of God;
A timeline would look like this:
|->->->->->->->Dispensation of Grace By Paul->->->->->->RAPTURE->DAY OF THE LORD->->->70th Week->->->Armageddon->|
Where does this fit in Revelation's timeline? Just before the 6th seal.
|->Book in the hand of the Father->Jesus ascends->takes the book (32 AD)->Opens seals 1-4 (32AD)>->Stephen murdered->-> ->->Seal 5 opened->->TIME passes (church age)->->Final Martyr killed->->RAPTURE-Day of the Lord->->70th week->->Christ's coming to Armageddon ->->|
Seal 1: the CHURCH sent out with the GOSPEL (32 AD)
Seals 2-4: The devil's attempts to stop the advance of the Gospel - to hold the gospel in that 1/4 area assigned to him.
Seal 5:
Rev. 6:9 When He opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of those who had been slain for the word of God and for the testimony which they held. 10 And they cried with a loud voice, saying, “How long, O Lord, holy and true, until You judge and avenge our blood on those who dwell on the earth?” 11 Then a white robe was given to each of them; and it was said to them that they should rest a little while longer, until both the number of their fellow servants and their brethren, who would be killed as they were, was completed.
1 Thes. 4: 16 For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout..dead rise first....
Rev. 6:12 I looked when He opened the sixth seal, and behold, there was a great earthquake...the day of His Wrath...
This is the scriptural order of events determined by the context of the verses used.
You have joined Matthew 24 coming with the 1 Thes. 4 coming. In short, you pulled both verse OUT OF THEIR CONTEXT to make them say what you imagine they say. Pulling verses out of context is a GRAVE error, done by beginning bible students.
1 Thes. 4
16 For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of an archangel, and with the trumpet of God. And the dead in Christ will rise first. 17 Then we who are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And thus we shall always be with the Lord. 18 Therefore comfort one another with these words. 5:1 But concerning the times and the seasons, brethren, you have no need that I should write to you. 2 For you yourselves know perfectly that the day of the Lord so comes as a thief in the night.
9 For God did not appoint us to wrath, but to obtain salvation [get raptured] through our Lord Jesus Christ, 10 who died for us, that whether we wake or sleep, we should live together with Him.
Please keep in mind, Paul did not divide his epistle with chapters. Notice that in this one passage, we have Jesus coming, (16) the church raised (17) , "the Day of the Lord.," and God's wrath. What is Paul telling us here? He is telling us that His coming to the air and the church caught up, will happen before the Day of the Lord that brings God's wrath. In fact, He is telling us that the rapture will come JUST before wrath. I believe the truth is, His coming (to the clouds) will be the trigger, so to speak, for the rapture. Then the rapture will be the trigger for the DAY.
We could say it another way: it will be "church age" or "the age of grace" right up to the moment of the rapture, but instantly after the rapture it will be the Day of the Lord. We could say, instead of church age, "the dispensation of the Gentile church. I did not say it, Paul did:
17 For if I do this thing willingly, I have a reward: but if against my will, a dispensation of the gospel is committed unto me. (1 Corinthians 9) (Emphasis added.)
2 If ye have heard of the dispensation of the grace of God which is given me to you-ward: (Ephesians 3) (Emphasis added.)
25 Whereof I am made a minister, according to the dispensation of God which is given to me for you, to fulfil the word of God;
A timeline would look like this:
|->->->->->->->Dispensation of Grace By Paul->->->->->->RAPTURE->DAY OF THE LORD->->->70th Week->->->Armageddon->|
Where does this fit in Revelation's timeline? Just before the 6th seal.
|->Book in the hand of the Father->Jesus ascends->takes the book (32 AD)->Opens seals 1-4 (32AD)>->Stephen murdered->-> ->->Seal 5 opened->->TIME passes (church age)->->Final Martyr killed->->RAPTURE-Day of the Lord->->70th week->->Christ's coming to Armageddon ->->|
Seal 1: the CHURCH sent out with the GOSPEL (32 AD)
Seals 2-4: The devil's attempts to stop the advance of the Gospel - to hold the gospel in that 1/4 area assigned to him.
Seal 5:
Rev. 6:9 When He opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of those who had been slain for the word of God and for the testimony which they held. 10 And they cried with a loud voice, saying, “How long, O Lord, holy and true, until You judge and avenge our blood on those who dwell on the earth?” 11 Then a white robe was given to each of them; and it was said to them that they should rest a little while longer, until both the number of their fellow servants and their brethren, who would be killed as they were, was completed.
1 Thes. 4: 16 For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout..dead rise first....
Rev. 6:12 I looked when He opened the sixth seal, and behold, there was a great earthquake...the day of His Wrath...
This is the scriptural order of events determined by the context of the verses used.
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Sorry, Jesus talked about the abomination that Daniel said would be in the midst of the week. What week? DANIEL'S week for HIS people - the Jews.
If you are determined to stay behind and live through part of this week designed by God for the Jews, I truly believe God will honor your faith. On the other hand, Luke tells us of God's escape plan. It is your choice.
If you are determined to stay behind and live through part of this week designed by God for the Jews, I truly believe God will honor your faith. On the other hand, Luke tells us of God's escape plan. It is your choice.
You said: "You have joined Matthew 24 coming with the 1 Thes. 4 coming. In short, you pulled both verse OUT OF THEIR CONTEXT to make them say what you imagine they say. Pulling verses out of context is a GRAVE error, done by beginning bible students."
i will call you Mr. Scramble for you love that Religion Blender - mixes scripture and brains up very well.
God established the Order of Events with these three Prophets Noah, Daniel and Job.
Matthew 24 agrees 1 Thess & 2 Thess agrees 1 John 2:14-19 agrees 1 Timothy 4:1 agrees James ch5 agrees Revelation
You do not understand Revelation because you do not understand the Authority of Scripture and worse you commit the satanic act of Pride by adding and taking away to/from God's words.
i will call you Mr. Scramble for you love that Religion Blender - mixes scripture and brains up very well.
God established the Order of Events with these three Prophets Noah, Daniel and Job.
Matthew 24 agrees 1 Thess & 2 Thess agrees 1 John 2:14-19 agrees 1 Timothy 4:1 agrees James ch5 agrees Revelation
You do not understand Revelation because you do not understand the Authority of Scripture and worse you commit the satanic act of Pride by adding and taking away to/from God's words.
Please allow me to set this record straight: You should have written: I BELIEVE "Scripture PROVES 'pre-trib' is a lie and a cancer, for it came from satan and never came out of the mouth of God."
The truth is, Paul would disagree with you. John would disagree with you. In fact, what they wrote disagrees with what you write.
"no one can find in Scripture a single verse" The truth is, no one can find a single verse to prove pre / mid / post / prewrath. Such a verse does not exist. Let me be perfectly clear, NO SUCH VERSE EXISTS FOR POST-TRIB. Why do you imagine such a verse does exist to prove a posttrib rapture? If such a verse did exist, all the church would believe in a posttrib rapture. It does not exist and much of the church does not believe in a posttrib rapture.
Instead of accusing the Brethren, why not seek true bible evidence to prove what you believe, or else CHANGE what you believe? Case in Point? PROVE by scripture that the gathering that gathers from heaven in Matthew 24 is Paul's rapture. (Hint: Paul's rapture gathers from earth.)
Prove pretrib? Find where John wrote of the crowd too large to number: is it found in Rev. 19 where you imagine the rapture to be? No, sorry. It is found in Rev. 7. That is before the "trib" as many call it. It is before the Beast that will CAUSE the days of GT (Great Tribulation)
Is that proof enough? You might have a leg to stand on, so to speak, if John saw that great crowd and wrote of in in chapter 19.
Next, Paul wrote of the Day of the Lord just three verses after his classic rapture verse. WHY did He put the start of the DAY right after the rapture? Simple: because that is the way it will happen. RAPTURE->DAY OF THE LORD.
Where do you find the start of the DAY in Revelation? In chapter 19? NO NO NO! It is in Rev. 6.
The truth then is simple: God and His word teach a PRETRIB rapture - but you cannot see it because of very thick preconceived glasses.
Please, take them off and come to the conclusion that you might be in error.
The truth is, Paul would disagree with you. John would disagree with you. In fact, what they wrote disagrees with what you write.
"no one can find in Scripture a single verse" The truth is, no one can find a single verse to prove pre / mid / post / prewrath. Such a verse does not exist. Let me be perfectly clear, NO SUCH VERSE EXISTS FOR POST-TRIB. Why do you imagine such a verse does exist to prove a posttrib rapture? If such a verse did exist, all the church would believe in a posttrib rapture. It does not exist and much of the church does not believe in a posttrib rapture.
Instead of accusing the Brethren, why not seek true bible evidence to prove what you believe, or else CHANGE what you believe? Case in Point? PROVE by scripture that the gathering that gathers from heaven in Matthew 24 is Paul's rapture. (Hint: Paul's rapture gathers from earth.)
Prove pretrib? Find where John wrote of the crowd too large to number: is it found in Rev. 19 where you imagine the rapture to be? No, sorry. It is found in Rev. 7. That is before the "trib" as many call it. It is before the Beast that will CAUSE the days of GT (Great Tribulation)
Is that proof enough? You might have a leg to stand on, so to speak, if John saw that great crowd and wrote of in in chapter 19.
Next, Paul wrote of the Day of the Lord just three verses after his classic rapture verse. WHY did He put the start of the DAY right after the rapture? Simple: because that is the way it will happen. RAPTURE->DAY OF THE LORD.
Where do you find the start of the DAY in Revelation? In chapter 19? NO NO NO! It is in Rev. 6.
The truth then is simple: God and His word teach a PRETRIB rapture - but you cannot see it because of very thick preconceived glasses.
Please, take them off and come to the conclusion that you might be in error.
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Satanic lies you speak out your mouth = "Matt ch24 with no reference to the Gentile church of today."
All who make this claim are false prophets speaking a false message by adding to and taking away from God's words,
even to the extreme of corrupting the Gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ.
He came to His own, and His own did not receive Him. But to all who did receive Him, to those who believed in His name, He gave the right to become children of God— children born not of blood, nor of the desire or will of man, but born of God.
It is just as the Scripture says: “Anyone who believes in Him will never be put to shame.” For there is no difference between Jew and Greek: The same Lord is Lord of all, and gives richly to all who call on Him, for, “Everyone who calls on the name of the Lord will be saved.”
But now, apart from the law, the righteousness of God has been revealed, as attested by the Law and the Prophets. And this righteousness from God comes through faith in Jesus Christ to all who believe. There is no distinction,
Do not lie to one another, since you have taken off the old self with its practices, and have put on the new self, which is being renewed in knowledge in the image of its Creator. Here there is no Greek or Jew, circumcised or uncircumcised, barbarian, Scythian, slave, or free, but Christ is all and is in all
All who make this claim are false prophets speaking a false message by adding to and taking away from God's words,
even to the extreme of corrupting the Gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ.
He came to His own, and His own did not receive Him. But to all who did receive Him, to those who believed in His name, He gave the right to become children of God— children born not of blood, nor of the desire or will of man, but born of God.
It is just as the Scripture says: “Anyone who believes in Him will never be put to shame.” For there is no difference between Jew and Greek: The same Lord is Lord of all, and gives richly to all who call on Him, for, “Everyone who calls on the name of the Lord will be saved.”
But now, apart from the law, the righteousness of God has been revealed, as attested by the Law and the Prophets. And this righteousness from God comes through faith in Jesus Christ to all who believe. There is no distinction,
Do not lie to one another, since you have taken off the old self with its practices, and have put on the new self, which is being renewed in knowledge in the image of its Creator. Here there is no Greek or Jew, circumcised or uncircumcised, barbarian, Scythian, slave, or free, but Christ is all and is in all
YOU DID pull them out of their context. Instead of talk, if you think you did NOT pull them out of context, PROVE what you say BY the context.
For example: Paul places the rapture BEFORE the Day of the Lord, and John places the Day of the Lord in Rev. 6. THAT, my friend, is God's devine order.
ANYONE can pull a verse from one chapter of one book, and write it with a verse from another book, and declare to the world that they "fit" together. This is usually done by beginning bible students. Mature believers know NEVER to pull a verse out of its context.
Case in point: the CONTEXT of the gathering in Matthew 24, as you have written over and over, is AFTER the trib. In Rev. that would be in chapter 19. The CONTEXT of the 1 Thes. 4 coming is before the Day of the Lord. In Revelation that is in chapter 6.
In short, you are rearranging Revelation, moving the 6th seal Day of the Lord to Revelation 19. Worse, you blame everyone else but yourself.
For example: Paul places the rapture BEFORE the Day of the Lord, and John places the Day of the Lord in Rev. 6. THAT, my friend, is God's devine order.
ANYONE can pull a verse from one chapter of one book, and write it with a verse from another book, and declare to the world that they "fit" together. This is usually done by beginning bible students. Mature believers know NEVER to pull a verse out of its context.
Case in point: the CONTEXT of the gathering in Matthew 24, as you have written over and over, is AFTER the trib. In Rev. that would be in chapter 19. The CONTEXT of the 1 Thes. 4 coming is before the Day of the Lord. In Revelation that is in chapter 6.
In short, you are rearranging Revelation, moving the 6th seal Day of the Lord to Revelation 19. Worse, you blame everyone else but yourself.
You said: "The truth is, no one can find a single verse to prove pre / mid / post / prewrath. Such a verse does not exist. Let me be perfectly clear, NO SUCH VERSE EXISTS FOR POST-TRIB."
What complete ignorance, arrogance, pride, blindness of heart with no fear of God at all from you.
the LORD Jesus Christ Speaking:
Immediately after the tribulation of those days:
‘The sun will be darkened,
and the moon will not give its light;
the stars will fall from the sky,
and the powers of the heavens will be shaken.’
At that time the sign of the Son of Man will appear in heaven, and all the tribes of the earth will mourn. They will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven, with power and great glory. And He will send out His angels with a loud trumpet call, and they will gather His elect from the four winds, from one end of the heavens to the other.
What complete ignorance, arrogance, pride, blindness of heart with no fear of God at all from you.
the LORD Jesus Christ Speaking:
Immediately after the tribulation of those days:
‘The sun will be darkened,
and the moon will not give its light;
the stars will fall from the sky,
and the powers of the heavens will be shaken.’
At that time the sign of the Son of Man will appear in heaven, and all the tribes of the earth will mourn. They will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven, with power and great glory. And He will send out His angels with a loud trumpet call, and they will gather His elect from the four winds, from one end of the heavens to the other.
Your 'context' is your corruption - repent
Evidence =
The CONTEXT of the 1 Thes. 4 coming is before the Day of the Lord. In Revelation that is in chapter 6.
You do not understand Revelation because yo do not understand 'His Coming' and all the Scripture pertaining to His Coming.
You mind is polluted with a lie = pre-trib rapture. Therefore you cannot see what the Lord and the Apostles have said.
Revelation chapter 7 comes after chapter 6 - try reading it.
Evidence =
The CONTEXT of the 1 Thes. 4 coming is before the Day of the Lord. In Revelation that is in chapter 6.
You do not understand Revelation because yo do not understand 'His Coming' and all the Scripture pertaining to His Coming.
You mind is polluted with a lie = pre-trib rapture. Therefore you cannot see what the Lord and the Apostles have said.
Revelation chapter 7 comes after chapter 6 - try reading it.
Matt ch24 with no reference to the Gentile church of today." Well, prove me mistaken by using the WORD. I have shown you over and over verses from Daniel that show us the 70th week is for DANIEL's people - the JEWS. Why do you keep insisting it is for the Gentile church of today? Can you prove your statement with the written Word? I have already proven what I wrote. However, preconceived ideas often BLOCK the truth of scripture from someone's understanding.
Did you not stop to think that when Jesus taught the people about the end of their age, the Gentile church of today DID NOT EXIST. In fact, no part of the church existed at that time. Perhaps you don't understand: the church of today WOULD NOT exist if Israel had accepted their Messiah. They refuses so God sent Paul to the Gentiles.
Can you find any words in Matthew 24 that PROVE it is about the church? I have already shown you two proofs it is about the JEWS. The church did not meet in Synagogues. And the 70th week is not for the Gentiles.
It is true: IN THE SPIRIT realm, there is no difference between a Jew or a Greek that gets born again. Ethnicity is only physical, not spiritual. HOWEVER, our bodies do not change when we are born again. There are millions of born again GENTILES and a few born again JEWS. Did you not notice that Paul called people GENTILES after they were born again?
Did you not stop to think that when Jesus taught the people about the end of their age, the Gentile church of today DID NOT EXIST. In fact, no part of the church existed at that time. Perhaps you don't understand: the church of today WOULD NOT exist if Israel had accepted their Messiah. They refuses so God sent Paul to the Gentiles.
Can you find any words in Matthew 24 that PROVE it is about the church? I have already shown you two proofs it is about the JEWS. The church did not meet in Synagogues. And the 70th week is not for the Gentiles.
It is true: IN THE SPIRIT realm, there is no difference between a Jew or a Greek that gets born again. Ethnicity is only physical, not spiritual. HOWEVER, our bodies do not change when we are born again. There are millions of born again GENTILES and a few born again JEWS. Did you not notice that Paul called people GENTILES after they were born again?
How many lies you have been sold and swallowed - hook, line and sinker.
LIE - "Matt ch24 with no reference to the Gentile church of today "
100% complete LIE - REPENT from attacking the Gospel of our LORD Jesus Christ
One Gospel for One Israel made up of Jew and Gentile in Christ.
They are not all Israel who are of Israel.
Satanism - separate the Jew from the Gentile in Christ.
LIE - "Matt ch24 with no reference to the Gentile church of today "
100% complete LIE - REPENT from attacking the Gospel of our LORD Jesus Christ
One Gospel for One Israel made up of Jew and Gentile in Christ.
They are not all Israel who are of Israel.
Satanism - separate the Jew from the Gentile in Christ.
If you disagree, find scriptures that prove I am in error. I will repent if I am in error. I have done it many times.
You seem obsessed with a thought in error: that pretrib is a lie. This fits today in the US very well. What is truth is called a lie, and what is a lie is imagined as truth. However, this is of the world. We are not of the world. We should be able to determine what is truth.
Question: did Paul put the DAY before the Rapture, or the RAPTURE before the DAY?
Answer from Scripture: Paul put the rapture FIRST, then the Day.
Why then are you so determined to SWITCH Paul's order? You did not receive the revelation of the Rapture! That was PAUL that received it. Why then would you imagine you know more about it than Paul?
WHERE was this great crowd when John saw them? Of course, they were IN HEAVEN. John did not see them arrive, did he? Well, did he? No, he saw them already there. That means they arrived in heaven some time BEFORE Rev. 7 timing. (this is just basic logic.)
WHEN then, did they leave earth and arrive in heaven? It HAD to be before the 6th seal start of WRATH. If you deny this, you are disagreeing with Paul.
You seem obsessed with a thought in error: that pretrib is a lie. This fits today in the US very well. What is truth is called a lie, and what is a lie is imagined as truth. However, this is of the world. We are not of the world. We should be able to determine what is truth.
Question: did Paul put the DAY before the Rapture, or the RAPTURE before the DAY?
Answer from Scripture: Paul put the rapture FIRST, then the Day.
Why then are you so determined to SWITCH Paul's order? You did not receive the revelation of the Rapture! That was PAUL that received it. Why then would you imagine you know more about it than Paul?
WHERE was this great crowd when John saw them? Of course, they were IN HEAVEN. John did not see them arrive, did he? Well, did he? No, he saw them already there. That means they arrived in heaven some time BEFORE Rev. 7 timing. (this is just basic logic.)
WHEN then, did they leave earth and arrive in heaven? It HAD to be before the 6th seal start of WRATH. If you deny this, you are disagreeing with Paul.
Instead of accusing the Brethren, which is what Satan does, why not prove with scripture where I am wrong?
Case in point: FIND references in Matthew 24 that proves Jesus was talking to Gentiles.
Perhaps you have overlooked this:
Romans 11:25
For I do not desire, brethren, that you should be ignorant of this mystery, lest you should be wise in your own opinion, that blindness in part has happened to Israel until the fullness of the Gentiles has come in.
It was a mystery until Paul revealed it: God is waiting for the fullness of the Gentiles to come in.
Luke 21:24
And they will fall by the edge of the sword, and be led away captive into all nations. And Jerusalem will be trampled by Gentiles until the times of the Gentiles are fulfilled.
Do you see it? We are in the TIME of the Gentiles.
Did you not know that YOU will be judged by PAUL's GOSPEL?
Romans 2:16
in the day when God will judge the secrets of men by Jesus Christ, according to my gospel.
Did you not know that Paul was sent to the GENTILES?
Galatians 2:9
and when James, Cephas, and John, who seemed to be pillars, perceived the grace that had been given to me, they gave me and Barnabas the right hand of fellowship, that we should go to the Gentiles and they to the circumcised.
Satanism - separate the Jew from the Gentile in Christ. This is error and MYTH. Did you not understand the difference of the two realms? There is a spiritual realm and there is a physical realm. Our fleshly bodies are physical. If Jew is born again, his or her body is still a Jewish body. If a Gentile is born again, his or her body is still a Gentile body.
Why is it, anyone that disagrees with YOU is a heathen in your sight?
Case in point: FIND references in Matthew 24 that proves Jesus was talking to Gentiles.
Perhaps you have overlooked this:
Romans 11:25
For I do not desire, brethren, that you should be ignorant of this mystery, lest you should be wise in your own opinion, that blindness in part has happened to Israel until the fullness of the Gentiles has come in.
It was a mystery until Paul revealed it: God is waiting for the fullness of the Gentiles to come in.
Luke 21:24
And they will fall by the edge of the sword, and be led away captive into all nations. And Jerusalem will be trampled by Gentiles until the times of the Gentiles are fulfilled.
Do you see it? We are in the TIME of the Gentiles.
Did you not know that YOU will be judged by PAUL's GOSPEL?
Romans 2:16
in the day when God will judge the secrets of men by Jesus Christ, according to my gospel.
Did you not know that Paul was sent to the GENTILES?
Galatians 2:9
and when James, Cephas, and John, who seemed to be pillars, perceived the grace that had been given to me, they gave me and Barnabas the right hand of fellowship, that we should go to the Gentiles and they to the circumcised.
Satanism - separate the Jew from the Gentile in Christ. This is error and MYTH. Did you not understand the difference of the two realms? There is a spiritual realm and there is a physical realm. Our fleshly bodies are physical. If Jew is born again, his or her body is still a Jewish body. If a Gentile is born again, his or her body is still a Gentile body.
Why is it, anyone that disagrees with YOU is a heathen in your sight?
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The Times of the Gentiles is NOT a falsely derived "Gentile Church" - satans religious lie
The lying must stop already - pre-trib, Gentile church, more then one Second Coming, more then one FIRST Resurrection and so on.
You are the one arguing and twisting the words of the LORD and the Apostles without any concern whatsoever.
Read all of Gospel of John, ACTS, ROMANS, GALATIANS, COLOSSIANS
"They are not all Israel who are of Israel" The Mother of us all is Jerusalem from Above, who is FREE with HER CHildren - SHE is Above and not in the flesh, on earth, in physical Israel who is in BONDAGE to SIN and the coming Judgment.
There is One Bride/Body of Christ - Jew and Gentile
The true Light who gives light to every man was coming into the world. He was in the world, and though the world was made through Him, the world did not recognize Him. He came to His own, and His own did not receive Him. But to all who did receive Him, to those who believed in His name, He gave the right to become children of God— children born not of blood, nor of the desire or will of man, but born of God.
Whoever seeks to separate Jew from Gentile in CHRIST, assaults the Word of God.
Consider this and set yourself Free - No lie is of the Truth - Apostle John
The lying must stop already - pre-trib, Gentile church, more then one Second Coming, more then one FIRST Resurrection and so on.
You are the one arguing and twisting the words of the LORD and the Apostles without any concern whatsoever.
Read all of Gospel of John, ACTS, ROMANS, GALATIANS, COLOSSIANS
"They are not all Israel who are of Israel" The Mother of us all is Jerusalem from Above, who is FREE with HER CHildren - SHE is Above and not in the flesh, on earth, in physical Israel who is in BONDAGE to SIN and the coming Judgment.
There is One Bride/Body of Christ - Jew and Gentile
The true Light who gives light to every man was coming into the world. He was in the world, and though the world was made through Him, the world did not recognize Him. He came to His own, and His own did not receive Him. But to all who did receive Him, to those who believed in His name, He gave the right to become children of God— children born not of blood, nor of the desire or will of man, but born of God.
Whoever seeks to separate Jew from Gentile in CHRIST, assaults the Word of God.
Consider this and set yourself Free - No lie is of the Truth - Apostle John