Galatians Discussion
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Its a strange thing, In my view, it is baptists that I have found best understand the message of grace. Spurgeons book ''All of Grace'' is probably the best book I ever read on the subject. One Baptist minister said that 85% of Evangelicals do not understand the message of justification and sanctification. Sadly, from my experience I would have to say that is probably an accurate figure. And yet, evangelicals believe in the gifts of the Spirit for today. You would think they should better understand but for some reason that mostly doesn't seem to be the case, from my experience
Jesus came that we might have Life. (John 10:10) It is eternal life, life that Adam could have had if he had eaten from the tree of life. Forgiveness for sin is only one part of the human problem. People sin because it is in their nature to sin. lord Jesus came to give us a new nature that does not sin and the new life that empowers us to live in a way that pleases God. He not only gives life, He is Life. People are familiar with "by grace you are saved", but rarely have I heard "saved by His life" (Romans 5:10) preached. It's just as true as Ephesians 2:5.
Amen
“What then? shall we sin, because we are not under the law, but under grace? God forbid.
Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey; whether of sin unto death,
or of obedience unto righteousness? But God be thanked, that ye were the servants of sin, but ye have obeyed from the heart that form of doctrine which was delivered you. ( the gospel ) Being then made free from sin, ye became the servants of righteousness.”
Romans 6:15-18 KJV
yep agreed the doctrine of Christ sets us free from sin because it circumcises the heart ,totally agree . We need to walk in the faith of the gospel. Baptism is a part of that faith we have as Christians
“And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature. He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.”
Mark 16:15-16
that’s what we believe and preach and live after and learn from and follow and will Be judged by
the law going back to this is a yoke
No One should try to bear
“Now we know that what things soever the law saith, it saith to them who are under the law: that every mouth may be stopped, and all the world may become guilty before God. Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin.”
Romans 3:19-20
Listen to Peter when confronted with this question
“But there rose up certain of the sect of the Pharisees which believed, saying, That it was needful to circumcise them, and to command them to keep the law of Moses. And the apostles and elders came together for to consider of this matter. And when there had been much disputing, Peter rose up, and said unto them, Men and brethren, ye know how that a good while ago God made choice among us, that the Gentiles by my mouth should hear the word of the gospel, and believe. And God, which knoweth the hearts, bare them witness, giving them the Holy Ghost, even as he did unto us; And put no difference between us and them, purifying their hearts by faith. Now therefore why tempt ye God, to put a yoke upon the neck of the disciples, which neither our fathers nor we were able to bear?”
Acts 15:5-10 KJV
but listen to Paul explaining how we’re delivered from that yoke
“But now we are delivered from the law, that being dead wherein we were held; that we should serve in newness of spirit, and not in the oldness of the letter.
What shall we say then? Is the law sin? God forbid. Nay, I had not known sin, but by the law: for I had not known lust, except the law had said, Thou shalt not covet. But sin, taking occasion by the commandment, wrought in me all manner of concupiscence. For without the law sin was dead.
For I was alive without the law once: but when the commandment came, sin revived, and I died. And the commandment, which was ordained to life, I found to be unto death.”
Romans 7:6-10 KJV
We are Made alive again without the law in Christ
“But now the righteousness of God without the law is manifested, being witnessed by the law and the prophets; Even the righteousness of God which is by faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe: for there is no difference:”
Romans 3:21-22 KJV
should accept deliverance from The law repent and follow the gospel that Jesus preached thats who promises eternal
Life and mercy , forgiveness , eternal
Life after death it’s all Found in christs word that’s all I know for sure Jesus word is the only way to know and believe the kingdom of God.
“And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come.”
Matthew 24:14 KJV
and the law can’t help a free person be free it’s always going to be a yoke and also going to be a subversion and issue for the person who needs and accepts the unnecassary yoke
“And after they had held their peace, James answered, saying, Men and brethren, hearken unto me:
he instructs this letter and decision.
…Forasmuch as we have heard, that certain which went out from us have troubled you with words, subverting your souls, saying, Ye must be circumcised, and keep the law: to whom we gave no such commandment:”
Acts 15:13, 24 KJV
there were always Pharisees Who believed and tried to add the law of
Moses to the gospel but the apostles shut it down early on and said it was about christs judgements in the gospel not Moses in the law
“And he commanded us to preach unto the people, and to testify that it is he which was ordained of God to be the Judge of quick and dead.”
Acts 10:42
Just my thoughts the law is something we need to leave behind or well
Always be yoked to
Sin
“What then? shall we sin, because we are not under the law, but under grace? God forbid.
Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey; whether of sin unto death,
or of obedience unto righteousness? But God be thanked, that ye were the servants of sin, but ye have obeyed from the heart that form of doctrine which was delivered you. ( the gospel ) Being then made free from sin, ye became the servants of righteousness.”
Romans 6:15-18 KJV
yep agreed the doctrine of Christ sets us free from sin because it circumcises the heart ,totally agree . We need to walk in the faith of the gospel. Baptism is a part of that faith we have as Christians
“And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature. He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.”
Mark 16:15-16
that’s what we believe and preach and live after and learn from and follow and will Be judged by
the law going back to this is a yoke
No One should try to bear
“Now we know that what things soever the law saith, it saith to them who are under the law: that every mouth may be stopped, and all the world may become guilty before God. Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin.”
Romans 3:19-20
Listen to Peter when confronted with this question
“But there rose up certain of the sect of the Pharisees which believed, saying, That it was needful to circumcise them, and to command them to keep the law of Moses. And the apostles and elders came together for to consider of this matter. And when there had been much disputing, Peter rose up, and said unto them, Men and brethren, ye know how that a good while ago God made choice among us, that the Gentiles by my mouth should hear the word of the gospel, and believe. And God, which knoweth the hearts, bare them witness, giving them the Holy Ghost, even as he did unto us; And put no difference between us and them, purifying their hearts by faith. Now therefore why tempt ye God, to put a yoke upon the neck of the disciples, which neither our fathers nor we were able to bear?”
Acts 15:5-10 KJV
but listen to Paul explaining how we’re delivered from that yoke
“But now we are delivered from the law, that being dead wherein we were held; that we should serve in newness of spirit, and not in the oldness of the letter.
What shall we say then? Is the law sin? God forbid. Nay, I had not known sin, but by the law: for I had not known lust, except the law had said, Thou shalt not covet. But sin, taking occasion by the commandment, wrought in me all manner of concupiscence. For without the law sin was dead.
For I was alive without the law once: but when the commandment came, sin revived, and I died. And the commandment, which was ordained to life, I found to be unto death.”
Romans 7:6-10 KJV
We are Made alive again without the law in Christ
“But now the righteousness of God without the law is manifested, being witnessed by the law and the prophets; Even the righteousness of God which is by faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe: for there is no difference:”
Romans 3:21-22 KJV
should accept deliverance from The law repent and follow the gospel that Jesus preached thats who promises eternal
Life and mercy , forgiveness , eternal
Life after death it’s all Found in christs word that’s all I know for sure Jesus word is the only way to know and believe the kingdom of God.
“And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come.”
Matthew 24:14 KJV
and the law can’t help a free person be free it’s always going to be a yoke and also going to be a subversion and issue for the person who needs and accepts the unnecassary yoke
“And after they had held their peace, James answered, saying, Men and brethren, hearken unto me:
he instructs this letter and decision.
…Forasmuch as we have heard, that certain which went out from us have troubled you with words, subverting your souls, saying, Ye must be circumcised, and keep the law: to whom we gave no such commandment:”
Acts 15:13, 24 KJV
there were always Pharisees Who believed and tried to add the law of
Moses to the gospel but the apostles shut it down early on and said it was about christs judgements in the gospel not Moses in the law
“And he commanded us to preach unto the people, and to testify that it is he which was ordained of God to be the Judge of quick and dead.”
Acts 10:42
Just my thoughts the law is something we need to leave behind or well
Always be yoked to
Sin
Amen
“And said unto them, Thus it is written, and thus it behoved Christ to suffer, and to rise from the dead the third day:
And that repentance and remission of sins should be preached in his name among all nations, beginning at Jerusalem.”
Luke 24:46-47 KJV
“But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin.
If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.
If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.
If we say that we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us.”
1 John 1:7-10 KJV
This is a sample of the light
“But I say unto you which hear, Love your enemies, do good to them which hate you, Bless them that curse you, and pray for them which despitefully use you.
Give to every man that asketh of thee; and of him that taketh away thy goods ask them not again. And as ye would that men should do to you, do ye also to them likewise.
But love ye your enemies, and do good, and lend, hoping for nothing again; and your reward shall be great, and ye shall be the children of the Highest: for he is kind unto the unthankful and to the evil.
Be ye therefore merciful, as your Father also is merciful.
Judge not, and ye shall not be judged: condemn not, and ye shall not be condemned: forgive, and ye shall be forgiven: Give, and it shall be given unto you; good measure, pressed down, and shaken together, and running over, shall be given into your bosom.
For with the same measure that ye mete withal it shall be measured to you again.
…And why call ye me, Lord, Lord, and do not the things which I say? Whosoever cometh to me, and heareth my sayings, and doeth them, I will shew you to whom he is like: He is like a man which built an house, and digged deep, and laid the foundation on a rock: and when the flood arose, the stream beat vehemently upon that house, and could not shake it: for it was founded upon a rock. But he that heareth, and doeth not, is like a man that without a foundation built an house upon the earth; against which the stream did beat vehemently, and immediately it fell; and the ruin of that house was great.”
Luke 6:27-28, 30-31, 35-38, 46-49 KJV
doesn’t inspire the thought “ I’m sinless “ but more “ I need to live more as a child of God and start hearing and believing his word “ “need to change some of my own ways too “ect
but mostly Christians find a way to reject that type of light
“And said unto them, Thus it is written, and thus it behoved Christ to suffer, and to rise from the dead the third day:
And that repentance and remission of sins should be preached in his name among all nations, beginning at Jerusalem.”
Luke 24:46-47 KJV
“But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin.
If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.
If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.
If we say that we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us.”
1 John 1:7-10 KJV
This is a sample of the light
“But I say unto you which hear, Love your enemies, do good to them which hate you, Bless them that curse you, and pray for them which despitefully use you.
Give to every man that asketh of thee; and of him that taketh away thy goods ask them not again. And as ye would that men should do to you, do ye also to them likewise.
But love ye your enemies, and do good, and lend, hoping for nothing again; and your reward shall be great, and ye shall be the children of the Highest: for he is kind unto the unthankful and to the evil.
Be ye therefore merciful, as your Father also is merciful.
Judge not, and ye shall not be judged: condemn not, and ye shall not be condemned: forgive, and ye shall be forgiven: Give, and it shall be given unto you; good measure, pressed down, and shaken together, and running over, shall be given into your bosom.
For with the same measure that ye mete withal it shall be measured to you again.
…And why call ye me, Lord, Lord, and do not the things which I say? Whosoever cometh to me, and heareth my sayings, and doeth them, I will shew you to whom he is like: He is like a man which built an house, and digged deep, and laid the foundation on a rock: and when the flood arose, the stream beat vehemently upon that house, and could not shake it: for it was founded upon a rock. But he that heareth, and doeth not, is like a man that without a foundation built an house upon the earth; against which the stream did beat vehemently, and immediately it fell; and the ruin of that house was great.”
Luke 6:27-28, 30-31, 35-38, 46-49 KJV
doesn’t inspire the thought “ I’m sinless “ but more “ I need to live more as a child of God and start hearing and believing his word “ “need to change some of my own ways too “ect
but mostly Christians find a way to reject that type of light
Justification by grace through faith TOTALLY CONTRADICTS everything that human beings believe about themselves and about God. And that is why so many Christians still stumble over this essential Gospel truth. You can add to that the confusion created by Five Point Calvinism, and thus people simply cannot understand how God can be just as well as the justifier of the ungodly. Then you can add to that the fact that it is not being preached and taught in many churches.
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Of course there is a righteousness in the law that will determine whether or not one is great in the kingdom or whether he is called the least (Matthew 5:17-20).
Concerning Acts 15...
Mat 5:17, Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.
Mat 5:18, For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.
Mat 5:19, Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.
Mat 5:20, For I say unto you, That except your righteousness shall exceed the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees, ye shall in no case enter into the kingdom of heaven.
The Gentiles who were saved that Peter spoke of in Acts 15 didn't need the law because the righteousness of the law was fulfilled in them for that they walked not after the flesh but after the Spirit (Romans 8:4). Nevertheless, in their purified hearts (Acts 15:9), their righteousness did exceed that of the scribes and Pharisees and the spirit of the law (Romans 7:6) was fulfilled in them.
So, then, even without the law, they had a righteousness which the law attested to it that it was righteousness indeed (Romans 3:21).
Because there is no law against bearing the fruit of the Spirit (Galatians 5:22-23); in other words, if you bear the fruit of the Spirit you become a law-abiding citizen of the kingdom of heaven (see Ezekiel 36:25-27).
Which is a righteousness apart from the law; because it is obtained not through the venue of attempting to obey a set of do's and don'ts; but in receiving the Spirit by faith and then walking according to the Spirit whom you have received.
Concerning Acts 15...
Mat 5:17, Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.
Mat 5:18, For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.
Mat 5:19, Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.
Mat 5:20, For I say unto you, That except your righteousness shall exceed the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees, ye shall in no case enter into the kingdom of heaven.
The Gentiles who were saved that Peter spoke of in Acts 15 didn't need the law because the righteousness of the law was fulfilled in them for that they walked not after the flesh but after the Spirit (Romans 8:4). Nevertheless, in their purified hearts (Acts 15:9), their righteousness did exceed that of the scribes and Pharisees and the spirit of the law (Romans 7:6) was fulfilled in them.
So, then, even without the law, they had a righteousness which the law attested to it that it was righteousness indeed (Romans 3:21).
Because there is no law against bearing the fruit of the Spirit (Galatians 5:22-23); in other words, if you bear the fruit of the Spirit you become a law-abiding citizen of the kingdom of heaven (see Ezekiel 36:25-27).
Which is a righteousness apart from the law; because it is obtained not through the venue of attempting to obey a set of do's and don'ts; but in receiving the Spirit by faith and then walking according to the Spirit whom you have received.
That being said, if anyone turns away his ear from hearing the law, even his prayer shall be an abomination (Proverbs 28:9).
And, while there is indeed a curse on those who attempt to be justified by the law, those who know they have been justified through faith in the blood of Christ can look into the perfect law of liberty and continue in it; and they will be blessed in what they do (James 1:25).
Therefore, to the believer in Christ, the law ceases from being a condemning taskmaster and converts into a set of wisdom principles by which we can live in order to receive a blessing from God in this life.
And, while there is indeed a curse on those who attempt to be justified by the law, those who know they have been justified through faith in the blood of Christ can look into the perfect law of liberty and continue in it; and they will be blessed in what they do (James 1:25).
Therefore, to the believer in Christ, the law ceases from being a condemning taskmaster and converts into a set of wisdom principles by which we can live in order to receive a blessing from God in this life.
You can obey the letter of the law and at the same time disobey the spirit of the law. You can violate the basic law of love as you obey the letter of the law, but you can't obey the letter of the law without also obeying the spirit of the law. To lye, Murder, steal, or bear false witness is a sin of the spirit of the law as well as the letter of the law.
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There is no scripture that backs these statements up.. Christ is the only one who fulfilled the law, and Christ did that by making the law in stone alive in our hearts and by forgiving our sins so disobedience to the law does not kill us.
All scripture that tells us how to live our earthly lives in a manner that is pleasing to God is law, and to say that scripture does not need to tell us of law, that "we don't need it" is against the lord and against scripture.
If you are speaking of the law of Moses, the earthly type commands, and saying those commands were law, that is an entirely different story, those commands are not for us after Christ fulfilled the law.
All scripture that tells us how to live our earthly lives in a manner that is pleasing to God is law, and to say that scripture does not need to tell us of law, that "we don't need it" is against the lord and against scripture.
If you are speaking of the law of Moses, the earthly type commands, and saying those commands were law, that is an entirely different story, those commands are not for us after Christ fulfilled the law.
Through Christ the love of the Lord is shed abroad in our hearts (Romans 5:5) and this love, being not impractical (1 john 3:17-18) is the fulfilling of the righteousness of the law within us (Romans 13:8-10, 1 John 5:3, 2 John 1:6; Romans 8:4); even in the practical sense.
The law is not made for a righteous man, but for the lawless and disobedient (1 Timothy 1:9-10).
Therefore, those whose hearts had been purified by faith, didn't need the law; for they were righteous, even according to it.
The law is given for the unrighteous man; it declares what his punishment will be and declares what those things are that are deserving of punishment.
The law is not made for a righteous man, but for the lawless and disobedient (1 Timothy 1:9-10).
Therefore, those whose hearts had been purified by faith, didn't need the law; for they were righteous, even according to it.
The law is given for the unrighteous man; it declares what his punishment will be and declares what those things are that are deserving of punishment.
I feel certain that your conclusion that God wants us to dispose of the 119th Psalm is based on some major misunderstandings. You understand the law is based on love, yet you want to throw out the law, saying it is made for those who break it (unrighteous) and not for you. Are you claiming that you never break the law, that you are perfect?
You speak of being purified by faith, and this keeps you from ever breaking the law? Faith makes us perfect through Christ, but not of our own doing.
You speak of being purified by faith, and this keeps you from ever breaking the law? Faith makes us perfect through Christ, but not of our own doing.
I would say that is why so many always have to bring it back to the Ten Commandments. For that is how the rational mind thinks. Its good to note, that term is mentioned by no Apostle in any of their letters, the closest you come to it is Paul stating to born again believers the law engraved in stone/ten commandments is the letter that kills, the ministry of death and condemnation
SDA mmebers put it in a variety of ways.
You are justified by faith in Christ and are not under the law. You remain justified and not under the law as long as you do not break the law
You are justified by faith in Christ, that is your righteousness before God. However, love is the fulfilment of the law, so if you break the ten commandments you show you do not have the love of God in you, and therefore can no longer be justified
You are righteous apart from obeying the law, you are not under the law, however, if you follow after the Holy Spirit you will not break the ten commandments, so if you do break them, you can no longer be justified.
Jesus said if you love Him you will obey his commands. All of Jesus commands are derivitives of the Ten Commandments. So if you fail to keep that law you show you do not love Jesus.
It always comes back to the Ten Commandments, an expression used by no Apostle in any of their letters
You are justified by faith in Christ and are not under the law. You remain justified and not under the law as long as you do not break the law
You are justified by faith in Christ, that is your righteousness before God. However, love is the fulfilment of the law, so if you break the ten commandments you show you do not have the love of God in you, and therefore can no longer be justified
You are righteous apart from obeying the law, you are not under the law, however, if you follow after the Holy Spirit you will not break the ten commandments, so if you do break them, you can no longer be justified.
Jesus said if you love Him you will obey his commands. All of Jesus commands are derivitives of the Ten Commandments. So if you fail to keep that law you show you do not love Jesus.
It always comes back to the Ten Commandments, an expression used by no Apostle in any of their letters
No. Your wires are crossed.
Pharisees do not think they have any problems with the law.
They think they are BLAMELESS according to the law.
Only Christians, who have been to Christ, know that the Law is condemnation and death. Pharisees believe their blessing resides in their adherence to the law and that they are righteous because of it.
Pharisees do not think they have any problems with the law.
They think they are BLAMELESS according to the law.
Only Christians, who have been to Christ, know that the Law is condemnation and death. Pharisees believe their blessing resides in their adherence to the law and that they are righteous because of it.
Most certainly the apostle John speaks of God's commandments in his 1st and 2nd epistles...he does not identify them as ten because there are certainly more than ten...he refers to them as the commandments (plural); while the commandment to believe on the name of Jesus Christ and love one another is a singular commandment.
I would say concerning the 2nd post that one can be justified as an ungodly person (Romans 4:5) but if they sin they are not born again (1 John 3:8-9).
The person who has faith in Christ is justified even when they are sinning but faith can extend to a higher level...in which you become sanctified wholly (1 Thessalonians 5:23-24 (kjv)). This is the point where one is "born of God" (1 John 3:9).
A person can be justified apart from and before they are "born of God"...for being born of God would be likened to being circumcised spiritually (see Romans 4:11).
A justified person has righteousness imputed to them...they have taken the steps needed to become born of God once their faith takes root...whether they will be sanctified wholly when they receive their glorified bodies in heaven or whether they receive that "second benefit" (2 Corinthians 1:15) in this life.
I would say concerning the 2nd post that one can be justified as an ungodly person (Romans 4:5) but if they sin they are not born again (1 John 3:8-9).
The person who has faith in Christ is justified even when they are sinning but faith can extend to a higher level...in which you become sanctified wholly (1 Thessalonians 5:23-24 (kjv)). This is the point where one is "born of God" (1 John 3:9).
A person can be justified apart from and before they are "born of God"...for being born of God would be likened to being circumcised spiritually (see Romans 4:11).
A justified person has righteousness imputed to them...they have taken the steps needed to become born of God once their faith takes root...whether they will be sanctified wholly when they receive their glorified bodies in heaven or whether they receive that "second benefit" (2 Corinthians 1:15) in this life.