The False Teaching (& Truth) of what happens at the Rapture.

[peldom10]

After the GWTJ His doctrine has traction.

One aspect of the millineum is that it is a second " purge" as satan is loosed and finds followers to mount a second war that is crushed yet again.

Hence we have the missing people klero claims are all gone.

The reason they come to Jerusalem to worship is found in the ot prophecy.

" come worship or die" ( my paraphrase)

My KJV says ...after the 1000 year reign...Satan will be loosed a little season to test the people....it does not suggest any stray.....where do we get another war...in addition to the battle of armageddon........will happen?

Scripture says...they come to the new Jerusalem to worship or they will not get any rain.

 

[Absolutely]

Is this your stock answer to those you cannot refute or defend your own position?

You know what i believe.
I have to guess at yours.

You set the stage for it.
Don't blame me.

I asked you for your position.
You deflected and railed against me for asking.
Get teal friend.

 

[Absolutely]

Yes, I know that. From 1 Cor 15:23, because He was the first human to receive a glorified body in the resurrection. And Act 26:23 tells us plainly that Jesus is "the first to rise from the dead". And we all know that there were at least several people during Jesus' ministry who came back from the dead: Lazarus, the widow's son, and whoever else He and/or His disciples raised from the dead. But none of any of these people received resurrection bodies.

And the idea of gleanings has no link to resurrection, unless you have a verse that I'm unaware of.


Well, of course there is. Doesn't support the claim that the resurrection of believers has 'gleanings'.


I must see verses that support this theory that the resurrection has a 'main harvest' and then after that a 'gleaning'.

Wow
Where do i start.

Harvest is not 2 parts.

You need to see what it says.

You do not know what you are talking about.

 

[Absolutely]

My KJV says ...after the 1000 year reign...Satan will be loosed a little season to test the people....it does not suggest any stray.....where do we get another war...in addition to the battle of armageddon........will happen?

Scripture says...they come to the new Jerusalem to worship or they will not get any rain.

Reread it.

 

[FreeGrace2]

FreeGrace2 said:
What verse that mentions gleanings indicates a separate resurrection of the saved, in your view? Thanks.

The resurrection of those that died during the tribulation and did not worship the beast, Revelation 20.

There is no verse in Rev 20 that mentions a "gleaning". I need to see a verse where the word is related to the resurrecton. All you're doing is assigning the word to something in Rev 20. In fact, the singular resurrection of believers is specifically mentioned in 20:5 and is called the FIRST resurrection. There will be another one; for unbelievers at the end of the 1,000 year reign.

If the Bible does NOT use "gleanings" in relation to the believer's resurrection, that's because there isn't a gleaning.

And the Bible DOES teach that there will be only one resurrection of believers, as seen in these verses:
Matt 22:30 - At the resurrection people will neither marry nor be given in marriage; they will be like the angels in heaven.
Luke 14:14 - and you will be blessed. Although they cannot repay you, you will be repaid at the resurrection of the righteous.”
Acts 24:15 - and I have the same hope in God as these men themselves have, that there will be a resurrection of both the righteous and the wicked.

These verses all refer to a singular resurrection.

1 Cor 15:23 - But each in turn: Christ, the firstfruits; then, when he comes, those who belong to him.

This verse still shows only one for believers. Jesus received a glorified body before anyone else, hence that resurrection is "firstfruits", and then "when He comes", a singular event, "those who belong to Him", obviously meaning ALL believers.

Also, it was the resurrection of Jesus that makes possible the singular resurrection of all believers.

If Jesus wasn't resurrected, then NO ONE else would be either. 1 Cor 15 (all of it).

 

[FreeGrace2]

FreeGrace2 said:
There is only one resurrection for the saved.

Acts 24:15 shows one for the saved and one for the unsaved.

Matt 22:30, Luke 14:14 and 1 Cor 15:23 all speak of the resurrection of the saved in the SINGULAR.

And 2 Thess 2:1 and 1 Cor 15:23 and Rev 20:5 all show that singular resurrection occurring at the end of the Trib "when He comes".

By taking "harvest" off the table.
Not good.

Instead of your opinions, could you address all the verses I have shared that PROVE there is a singular resurrection of the saved.

If you want to call that a "harvest" go ahead. But the Bible is clear; ONLY 1 for the saved.

Or prove me wrong with clear verses, something you know you don't have.

 

[peldom10]

Reread it.

Good thought.

Revelation 20:7 Context

4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years. 5But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection. 6Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years. 7And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison, 8And shall go out to deceive the nations which are in the four quarters of the earth, Gog and Magog, to gather them together to battle: the number of whom is as the sand of the sea. 9And they went up on the breadth of the earth, and compassed the camp of the saints about, and the beloved city: and fire came down from God out of heaven, and devoured them. 10And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever.



I have read that many times and have missed that point in .....9. ....

Many thanks, brother.

 

[FreeGrace2]

"""Rev 20:4,5 also clearly states the singular resurrection for the saved is called the FIRST resurrection (the one for the saved) and occurs "when He comes" back at the Second Advent."""
Lets see what it says
20 And I saw an angel come down from heaven, having the key of the bottomless pit and a great chain in his hand.
2 And he laid hold on the dragon, that old serpent, which is the Devil, and Satan, and bound him a thousand years,
3 And cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal upon him, that he should deceive the nations no more, till the thousand years should be fulfilled: and after that he must be loosed a little season.
4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.
y
That shoots down your ENTIRE PREMISE.

What a devious trick!! Sure, leave out v.5 why don't you. Oh yeah, you did that.

So, let's fix your dishonesty right now.

New International Version
(The rest of the dead did not come to life until the thousand years were ended.) This is the first resurrection.

New Living Translation
This is the first resurrection. (The rest of the dead did not come back to life until the thousand years had ended.)

English Standard Version
The rest of the dead did not come to life until the thousand years were ended. This is the first resurrection.

Berean Study Bible
The rest of the dead did not come back to life until the thousand years were complete. This is the first resurrection.

Berean Literal Bible
The rest of the dead did not live again until the thousand years shall have been completed. This is the first resurrection.

King James Bible
But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.

New King James Version
But the rest of the dead did not live again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.

New American Standard Bible
The rest of the dead did not come to life until the thousand years were completed. This is the first resurrection.

NASB 1995
The rest of the dead did not come to life until the thousand years were completed. This is the first resurrection.

NASB 1977
The rest of the dead did not come to life until the thousand years were completed. This is the first resurrection.

Amplified Bible
The rest of the dead [the non-believers] did not come to life again until the thousand years were completed. This is the first resurrection.

Christian Standard Bible
The rest of the dead did not come to life until the thousand years were completed. This is the first resurrection.

Holman Christian Standard Bible
The rest of the dead did not come to life until the 1,000 years were completed. This is the first resurrection.

American Standard Version
The rest of the dead lived not until the thousand years should be finished. This is the first resurrection.

Aramaic Bible in Plain English
And this is the first resurrection.

Douay-Rheims Bible
The rest of the dead lived not, till the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.

English Revised Version
The rest of the dead lived not until the thousand years should be finished. This is the first resurrection.

International Standard Version
The rest of the dead did not come back to life until the thousand years were over. This is the first resurrection.

Literal Standard Version
and the rest of the dead did not live again until the one thousand years may be completed; this [is] the first resurrection.

NET Bible
(The rest of the dead did not come to life until the thousand years were finished.) This is the first resurrection.

New Heart English Bible
The rest of the dead did not live until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.

Weymouth New Testament
No one else who was dead rose to Life until the thousand years were at an end. This is the First Resurrection.

World English Bible
The rest of the dead didn't live until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.

Young's Literal Translation
and the rest of the dead did not live again till the thousand years may be finished; this is the first rising again.

Now that I've FIXED the dishonesty, can you finally ADMIT that the resurrection of the martyrs is "the FIRST resurrection"?

It says nothing at all about when they are resurrected.

When you stop before v.5, sure, you'd think so.

Nor is it an indication of a singular resurrection.

There are only 2 total. One for the saved and one for the unsaved. Acts 24:15 actually says so clearly. Have you read it yet?

Nor is it at his second coming.

huh? So you really DON'T know "when He comes"?? When do you think the Second coming will occur then, if not after the Trib.
It is WELL AFTER Armageddon.

You completely reframed it.
Unbelievable[/QUOTE]

 

[FreeGrace2]

There is ONE resurrection for the saved. Both dead and living all receive their glorified bodies together. Acts 24:15
That single resurrection occurs at the Second Advent, "when He comes" (1 Cor 15:23).
2 Thess 2:1 clearly states the "gathering (rapture) occurs "when Jesus comes", which is the Second Advent.
Rev 20:4,5 also clearly states the singular resurrection for the saved is called the FIRST resurrection (the one for the saved) and occurs "when He comes" back at the Second Advent.

But you only keep denying what you have been shown.

I ask for a post of yours laying out your doctrine.

Which I did, above. And the verses you HAVEN'T even tried to exegete.

You nastily bite my head off.

I wouldn't think of such a thing. Having a bad taste in my mouth. btw, is pointing out truths biting one's head off?

[QUTOE]You cant make this stuff up.[/QUOTE]
I sure don't. You sure do.

Just unbelievable.

Yeah, really amazing, huh.

 

[FreeGrace2]

Yeah
Jesus preached the gospel to those in paradise.
They resurrected.
Firstfruits.
Any questions?

No, only corrections.

Yes, Jesus preached to those in paradise.
No, they weren't resurrected. None of them received glorified bodies. Or prove that they did.
ONLY Jesus' resurrection is called "firstfruits". Check out 1 Cor 15:23 for a change.

"But each in turn: Christ, the firstfruits; then, when he comes, those who belong to him."

What does "each in turn" mean to you" Paul made it clear by identifying WHO he was referring to. Jesus was first to receive a glorified body, and then "when He comes" the rest get theirs, "those who belong to Him".

Very simple. But one's eyes must be open to see.

 

[FreeGrace2]

FreeGrace2 said:
The Bible speaks of the resurrection in the singular. There are not stages. Only one.

The "firstfruits" is jesus Himself, who was the FIRST human to receive a glorified body. All the rest of the saved receive their glorified bodies "when He comes", as 1 Cor 15:23 says.

And Rev 20:5 very plainly describes the resurrection of trib martyrs as the FIRST resurrection, so that's when ALL believers will get a glorified body.

Wow

Yes, rather impressive, huh.

That is impossible.

Huh? The Bible SAYS it. Why do you rejecrt what the Bible says?

All those martyrs from the cross till now are just going to have to wait.

Actually, ALL believers from Adam forward will have to wait until "when He comes" at the end of the Trib, since the Bible says so.

 

[FreeGrace2]

FreeGrace2 said:
There is only one resurrection for the saved.

Acts 24:15 shows one for the saved and one for the unsaved.

Matt 22:30, Luke 14:14 and 1 Cor 15:23 all speak of the resurrection of the saved in the SINGULAR.

And 2 Thess 2:1 and 1 Cor 15:23 and Rev 20:5 all show that singular resurrection occurring at the end of the Trib "when He comes".

Acts 24:14 But this I confess unto thee, that after the way which they call heresy, so worship I the God of my fathers, believing all things which are written in the law and in the prophets:
15 And have hope toward God, which they themselves also allow, that there shall be a resurrection of the dead, both of the just and unjust. THIS 'A' RESURRECTION IS ALREADY 2 RESURRECTIONS. Maybe it is 2 billion resurrections.

It seems you have quite an interesting way to understand words. "2 B" Really. You see that many? I see ONLY 1 for the saved and 1 for the unsaved.

from the Greek - a hope having in God which also they themselves await a resurrection there is about to be of the just both and of the unjust

Where do you get that the unsaved are "awaiting a resurrection"?

 

[kleronomos]

--there will be babies being born even DURING the TRIB years..

OF COURSE there will be babies born all the way up until the return of Christ. THE WORLD WILL WORSHIP AFTER SATAN. He will be loved and revered by the world. They are going to be happily be deceived. He will be performing awesome miracles for everyone to see. Remember a part of 'the system' will have gone down and what SEEMS like the entire planets demise is FIXED by him when he comes. He and his 7000 angels. HE HEALS THE DEADLY WOUND. He is the answer to EVERYONES PRAYERS.

The world BELIEVES it is Christ RETURNED. They believe it is His kingdom come. Prosperity for all, all it takes is..... HE DOES what no king before HIM does HE divides the spoils. HERE take the mark and a loaf of bread costs a dime and you are making 100.00 an hour. IT'S LIKE HEAVEN ON EARTH. just take this one little mark and worship this image (that you are ALREADY basically worshipping).

DECEPTION.

IF YOU DON'T KNOW. If you are being deceived. If you DIDN'T KNOW THE END OF THE STORY because you didn't put on the gospel armor.

SOULS ARE DYING LEFT AND RIGHT AND not one person is dropping DEAD. They are DYING BECAUSE THEIR SOULS ARE BEING REPOSITIONED FROM LOVING THE TRUTH AND GOD and receiving eternal life TO loving Satan who's only truth is to lead you to the THE LAKE OF FIRE.

THE war isn't for flesh and blood THE WAR IS ABOUT THIS, WHAT WE ARE DOING IS THE WAR IN PREVIEW. Why does mother give up daughter? NOT BECAUSE SHE HATES HER, BUT BECAUSE SHE LOVES HER. She wants her to ENJOY and SEE what is really going on. SO SHE GIVES HER DAUGHTER UP TO DEATH TO BE HELPED INTO SEEING THE TRUTH. (did the daughter put on the gospel armor or will she too be deceived)

ONE OF US IS WRONG.

Just like PAUL was. God doesn't 'reward' INTENTIONS. What are all the warnings about? HIS WORDS. Falling away from HIS WORDs. Making up our own ways. Not doing it His way.

There is only one way to come out of confusion and that is with the TRUTH. And TRUTH is 'it is written'. What did Jesus say to Satan? IT IS WRITTEN. Not one time 'this is what He meant.


We only have one way to be sure. IT IS WRITTEN. It isn't hidden. It isn't written in secret. GODs wish is that all would come to repentance.

IT'S all about the lies and deception.

God isn't going to test JUST THIS ONE GENERATION, they are SPECIAL. Look, right here. You can't read it and it isn't written but REALLY TRULY that is what it says YOU'VE GOT TO BELIEVE ME


says the deception.


Don't you know SATAN WORKS MOST AND BEST in the words of God. WHY do you think there is so much confusion? So many doctrines that say in one way or another ''YOU DON'T HAVE TO PUT ON THE GOSPEL ARMOR''

1. It already all happened
2. It isn't going to happen to you
3. Once you say these words you can do no wrong
4. God wouldn't test the church, not the BODY of CHRIST. HOW QUICKLY THEY FORGET WHAT HAPPENED TO THE HEAD.

KNOW WHY THEY ALL SAY THE SAME THING? Don't study you will be fine...


Revelation 12:4 And his tail drew the third part of the stars of heaven, and did cast them to the earth: and the dragon stood before the woman which was ready to be delivered, for to devour her child as soon as it was born.

THAT is everything. God has given us every word to keep us safe.

I have to go for the day.

 

[FreeGrace2]

i have yet to see any meaningful challenge to a pretrib rapture.

Why won't you open your eyes?

 

[FreeGrace2]

What I hear you saying here ^ (along with the point in the rest of your quote, which I didn't copy ^ ), is that ALL believers MUST PHYSICALLY DIE (b/c of Heb9:27), and this (according to your view) would INCLUDE the "we which are ALIVE and remain unto" group of people. Is it your view that ZERO saints will left out of the "must physically DIE" category... is this what you are saying ( ^ here and in conjunction with the remainder of your post)??

I think it is obvious that the living believers "when He comes" will be the exception. Do you have a problem with that?

 

[FreeGrace2]

yawn
Nothing to see here.
He just follows me and trolls my posts.

The correct word is "corrects" his posts.

No mention of his doctrine even when asked

It's been explained many times, and with many verses, all of which SAY what I believe. But one needs to open their eyes to see.

I don't even know for sure what he believes.

Because you keep your eyes closed and learn nothing.

All my doctrine is included and defended in this thread.

It is surely yours and NOT the Bible's.

 

[FreeGrace2]

I said:
I use the bible to form doctrine.

No you don't.

Said the one who admittedly doesn't read or understand the posts of others. You simply don't know what you are talking about.

 

[FreeGrace2]

FreeGrace2 said:
Is this your stock answer to those you cannot refute or defend your own position?

You know what i believe.
I have to guess at yours.

Those who read my posts know exactly what I believe. And I've proven WITH Scripture that my beliefs ARE in the Bible.

I asked you for your position.
You deflected and railed against me for asking.
Get teal friend.

Straight up LIE. I've given it many times. You just don't want to have to deal with it or the verses I include because you KNOW you can't refute any of what the Bible says.

 

[Heaven_Bound]

Well glad you got it all figured out.

War has nothing to do with the rapture .
We have always had them and always will

Way to twist my point.

The War is not my concern, and You know it!
The Concern is who is going to set PEACE between Israel and Iran before they kick off WWIII?

And of course, you completely ignore that, because, pre-trib Rapture should have already happen before this!

 

[Heaven_Bound]

I think it is obvious that the living believers "when He comes" will be the exception. Do you have a problem with that?

Yes they do!