The joy of Calvin's succinctness.

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Rhomphaeam

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#21
Just for kicks, I went and looked up the word (in the OP verse) "PORTRAYED" and found it used 4x in the nkjv... interesting:

Eze 8:10
So I went in and saw, and there—every sort of creeping thing, abominable beasts, and all the idols of the house of Israel, portrayed all around on the walls.

Eze 23:14
But she increased her harlotry;
She looked at men portrayed on the wall,
Images of Chaldeans portrayed in vermilion,

Gal 3:1
O foolish Galatians! Who has bewitched you that you should not obey the truth,[fn] before whose eyes Jesus Christ was clearly portrayed among you[fn--'NU-Text omits among you'] as crucified?







Then I looked up the word in the Greek and found this (at BLB, under "Thayers"), which says (in part):

2. to depict or portray openly (cf. πρό, d. α: οἷς κατ' ὀφθαλμούς Ἰησοῦς Χριστός προεγράφη ἐν ὑμῖν (but ἐν ὑμῖν is dropped by G L T Tr WH) ἐσταυρωμένος, before whose eyes was portrayed the picture of Jesus Christ crucified (the attentive contemplation of which picture ought to have been a preventive against that bewitchment), i. e. who were taught most definitely and plainly concerning the meritorious efficacy of the death of Christ, Galatians 3:1. Since the simple γράφειν is often used of painters, and προγράφειν certainly signifies also to write before the eyes of all who can read (Plutarch, Demetr. 46 at the end, προγραφει τίς αὐτοῦ πρό τῆς σκηνῆς τήν τοῦ Ὀιδιποδος ἀρχήν), I see no reason why προγράφειν may not mean to depict (paint, portray) before the eyes; (R. V. openly set forth).


[end quoting]



I agree with the above paragraph (at BLB, under "Thayers"), as to the sense of that word, and thus to the meaning of Gal3:1. = )

["hath been evidently set forth"... that was the writer's task]
Your lexical presentation of the term portrayed is interesting because it begs the question how the Galatians were able to see what they did not witness in Jerusalem. Paul took the Gospel to them - they didn't receive it in Jerusalem. Yet according to Paul Christ was publicly portrayed before their eyes.
 

Magenta

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#23
Faith produces an ability to see Christ - by faith.
I gave the verse. Did you miss it?

All of us also lived among them at one time, fulfilling the cravings of our flesh and indulging
its desires and thoughts. Like the rest, we were by nature children of wrath. Ephesians 2:3
 

Rhomphaeam

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#24
I gave the verse. Did you miss it?

All of us also lived among them at one time, fulfilling the cravings of our flesh and indulging
its desires and thoughts. Like the rest, we were by nature children of wrath. Ephesians 2:3
No sister, you said that the Scripture says that Christ died for the sins of the whole world.

John said at the Jordan, behold the Lamb of God who takes away the sin of the world.

Are you citing a meaning from 1 John 2:2 ?

"and He Himself is the propitiation for our sins; and not for ours only, but also for those of the whole world."

It seems that you are wrestling with Calvinism. Can I ask why that is given what I said in both the opening post and in my post to yourself?
 

Magenta

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#26
No sister, you said that the Scripture says that Christ died for the sins of the whole world.

John said at the Jordan, behold the Lamb of God who takes away the sin of the world.

Are you citing a meaning from 1 John 2:2 ?

"and He Himself is the propitiation for our sins; and not for ours only, but also for those of the whole world."

It seems that you are wrestling with Calvinism. Can I ask why that is given what I said in both the opening post and in my post to yourself?
No, I am not wrestling with Calvinism ;)

Yes, I was referencing 1 John 2:2 :)
 

Rhomphaeam

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#27
No, I am not wrestling with Calvinism ;)

Yes, I was referencing 1 John 2:2 :)
και αυτος ιλασμος εστιν περι των αμαρτιων ημων ου περι των ημετερων δε μονον αλλα και περι ολου του κοσμου 1 John 2:2 Textus Receptus

"and He Himself is the propitiation for our sins; and not for ours only, but also for those of the whole world."

The term propitiation from 1 John 2:2 in the Gk manuscript (as above) is the term that inflects that God is the propitiator - namely he is justified to forgive sin. The object - doctrinally is that we are justified by faith - as the whole world is justified by faith also. But the active sense if of course to receive the gift of faith. And that is where my origin in the opening post begins.

That may presume to Calvin's phonological position when he asserts as an obedience for the believer to obey the word, but in 'service' "not only what lies in obedience to God's Word but what turns the mind of man, empty of its own carnal sense, wholly to the bidding of God's Spirit." And the predicative clausal meaning is empty of its own carnal sense. In short not to rely on the natural mind in service to God. Of course in a very real sense few believers would not also know that we are instructed to be not conformed to this world, but be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind, that ye may prove what is that good and acceptable and perfect will of God. Romans 12:2

Of course what I doing is using Calvin [to the extent that I have quoted him] argumentatively to make the point that taking Scripture at a spoken value (phonological) then Galatians 3:1 expresses a seeming falsehood. It says something that isn't literally true. The Galatians were not in Jerusalem to witness the crucifixion with their own eyes. Yet Paul speaks of with their own eyes. I chose Calvin because he presented biblical truth phonologically utilising Latin, Hebrew and Greek (comparatively).

So my first point about Galatians 3:1 and Calvin, Institutes (3.7.1) is to try and demonstrate rationally how even a cessationist like Calvin was not removed from prophetic speech because he always knew that it isn't possible to know anything at all unless it is first directed by the Holy Spirit. That cannot fail, even for the charismatic believer. I don't want to be divisive - rather a unifying influence if the Lord pleases.
 

wintersrain

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#28

Magenta

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#29

Lafftur

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#30
In fairness the world and "all men" couldn't the contextof his predestination of those he planned to save.
There are two pathways that are predestined meaning one is predestined to end in Life and the other in Death but, the CHOICE is NOT predestined…each of us has free will to choose our path.
 

Nehemiah6

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#32
The joy of Calvin's succinctness.
I am not sure how you arrived at this conclusion. Calvin is far from succinct. He is actually quite wordy.
 

p_rehbein

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#33
God gives. Not humans choose.
Scripture begs to differ.

Joshua 24:15

“And if it seem evil unto you to serve the LORD, choose you this day whom ye will serve; whether the gods which your fathers served that were on the other side of the flood, or the gods of the Amorites, in whose land ye dwell: but as for me and my house, we will serve the LORD.”

King James Version (KJV)

....and there are many other Scriptures which reveal the Biblical Truth of FREE WILL!
 

p_rehbein

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#34
Despite how it may seem - I am using Calvin because his words of themselves are unmistakable in their meaning. And I have limited his words to just a single Institute from his theological treatise with no expectation that I will have to cite anything else of Calvin. I would hope that brethren will be able to see that meaning in Institutes (3.7.1) as cited and at least sense the meaning I will emphasis and not be concerned for the so-called TULIP framework. My intention is not to promote or uphold Calvinism or Calvin. So whilst it is inevitable that some of the TULIP anachronous meanings will have to be addressed as they are raised, I won't be raising any at all.
That's all well and good, however, by simply using Calvins Teachings to justify some point you desire to make LENDS CREEDENCE to those Teachings.......ie: T.U.L.I.P. Saying you are not promoting Calvinism by using Calvins Teachings is nonsensical at best, and deceptionism at worst. IMO
 

Rhomphaeam

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#36
That's all well and good, however, by simply using Calvins Teachings to justify some point you desire to make LENDS CREEDENCE to those Teachings.......ie: T.U.L.I.P. Saying you are not promoting Calvinism by using Calvins Teachings is nonsensical at best, and deceptionism at worst. IMO
Perhaps we all ought to discern where truth falls and how the Father gave Christ to us. If it pleased the Father to bear witness of his Son at the river Jordan - baptising Him in the power of the Holy Spirit that his first work was to be led of the Spirit into the wilderness to be temped by the Devil - then I am not afraid to have Calvin tempt you, or any man, brother. So let us remain in Christ - as He remained in the Father's will - thus by obedience He remained standing until the devil departed. Who is Calvin - but a man who set his face to pleasing God? Who is any man?

Do not say to me that I am a deceiver, as you did do unless you wish to be sifted.

 

Magenta

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#37
Scripture begs to differ.

Joshua 24:15
“And if it seem evil unto you to serve the LORD, choose you this day whom ye will serve; whether the gods which your fathers served that were on the other side of the flood, or the gods of the Amorites, in whose land ye dwell: but as for me and my house, we will serve the LORD.” King James Version (KJV)

....and there are many other Scriptures which reveal the Biblical Truth of FREE WILL!
People seem to confuse God making it possible for us to choose with Him actually making that choice for us. He does desire all people to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth, for He takes no pleasure in anyone's death.


Isaiah 45:22 + Revelation 3:20
:)
 

Rhomphaeam

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#38
People seem to confuse God making it possible for us to choose with Him actually making that choice for us. He does desire all people to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth, for He takes no pleasure in anyone's death.


Isaiah 45:22 + Revelation 3:20
:)
How does a man or woman choose with God, sister?

Before I posted anything substantive on this forum I set down a post in the blogs forum on the 23.12.2021 called Salvation - The Living Meaning in order to form a basis to address those things which I believed would be helpful to both myself and others. You say that some believe that God chooses to save those whom he elects unto adoption, rather than [your inference] chooses universally (by inference your 1 John 2:2 ref) and then the individual man or woman chooses with God so that they are then become beneficiaries of Christ's shed blood according to God's choosing. That argument in your meaning is of course the so-called free will argument. In that link Salvation - The Living Meaning I set down a non denominational presentation and gave a way to reflect on how the gift of eternal life is a matter of the Father electing men and woman unto eternal life and then giving men and women the choice to follow Christ - once they are born again. Not before.

The brother, @p_rehbein to whom you are responding in your now cited post, herein, ought to be able to see that, because he is predicated to the Holiness movement that came out of Wesleyan doctrine and in that system being saved is being born again and being sanctified is obedience leading to a holy life. I do hope that we can all set aside our concerns over the names of men, and start seeing that our best course is to agree on what we are fully persuaded of and accept what in some detail - that cannot remove us from the hand of God if we hold to it - seeing as the detail is the very love of the Father in His Son. (John 3:16).

I can wink at Wesley who can wink at Calvin?

Just to show how things can be predicated if we are mindful of irony - I am writing this post whilst sitting in a Wesleyan Chapel built in 1862 and it is from the west arch window that my profile photo is taken.

IMG_0066 (Site Portrait Final).jpg
 

Magenta

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#39
How does a man or woman choose with God, sister?
My post said: "God makes it possible." This is not to be confused with God making our decision for us, though the outcome either way is predetermined, meaning, choose God and live, or reject God and suffer the second death. PS~ that is a lovely picture of you! :)